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CeresExpo2000

President Trump New Afghanistan Strategy

140 posts in this topic

Likely wouldn't have happened? How do you know?

Do you remember what caused the first Gulf War?

What would have been the outcome had no one intervened?

Not acting has it's own costs. This fact is often overlooked by those practicing hindsight.

Harte

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23 hours ago, Harte said:

Likely wouldn't have happened? How do you know?

Do you remember what caused the first Gulf War?

What would have been the outcome had no one intervened?

Not acting has it's own costs. This fact is often overlooked by those practicing hindsight.

Harte

I say that because of the present situation. I say that because of the constant outcomes and constant patterns of foolish interventionism. They repeat the same mistakes, and they expect better outcomes. How do you know that the world wouldn't be better if we wouldn't have done what we did?

Of course, I recall what allegedly started the first war with Iraq. We could have stopped after we liberated Kuwait. We needed Iran and Iraq to balance each other in the region. The power vacuum led to a much worse situation.

Some inactions can be negative. They probably would be positive in the post-9/11 period in the specific case of interventionist policies regarding the Iraqi and Syrian governments, as well as Egyptian and Libyan leadership. The power vacuums are filled with groups that destabilize the countries while they often export terrorism to other countries. Al Qaeda is an issue by itself. 

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Ahhhh the dreaded correlative principle in accordance to the unerring reflective data as deciphered when needed and if desired.

~

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10 hours ago, third_eye said:

Ahhhh the dreaded correlative principle in accordance to the unerring reflective data as deciphered when needed and if desired.

~

Could you interpret that for me? I *might* understand some of it. ;)

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On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 6:32 PM, Paranormal Panther said:

I say that because of the present situation. I say that because of the constant outcomes and constant patterns of foolish interventionism. They repeat the same mistakes, and they expect better outcomes. How do you know that the world wouldn't be better if we wouldn't have done what we did?

Of course, I recall what allegedly started the first war with Iraq. We could have stopped after we liberated Kuwait. We needed Iran and Iraq to balance each other in the region. The power vacuum led to a much worse situation.

We did stop when we liberated Kuwait.

Or do you mean we shouldn't have had the no fly zone?

What would it be like today if Saddam controlled such a large majority of Arab oil (Saudi)?

1 hour ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Could you interpret that for me? I *might* understand some of it. ;)

"Hindsight is 20-20."

Harte

 

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16 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Could you interpret that for me? I *might* understand some of it. ;)

Just by stating so tells me that you more than understand the entirety of it all, and comprehending the totality of the issue while you were at it ...

:D

~

While Mr @Harte prefers the corny stiff upper lip references, I tend to pun my way through my ignorance ... ;)

~

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22 hours ago, Harte said:

We did stop when we liberated Kuwait.

Or do you mean we shouldn't have had the no fly zone?

What would it be like today if Saddam controlled such a large majority of Arab oil (Saudi)?

"Hindsight is 20-20."

Harte

 

We didn't stop there. We had a second war with Iraq that was harmful and needless. The country collapsed into chaos after Saddam Hussein was removed from power. That's just a fact that's evident.

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10 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

We didn't stop there. We had a second war with Iraq that was harmful and needless. The country collapsed into chaos after Saddam Hussein was removed from power. That's just a fact that's evident.

 

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 5:54 PM, Harte said:

Acts of terrorism in our country preceded any intervention in Afghanistan. One in particular. And there have been few such acts in our country since.

The removal of Saddam Hussein was like removing a linchpin of stability in the region. That sounds insane, but it's true.

Intervention in Afghanistan hasn't caused any more terrorism than we would have been in for had we not intervened.

I'd say  we would likely have experienced more, much more maybe, if we hadn't acted.

Harte

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9 minutes ago, Harte said:

 

Harte

I guess that you and I agree that it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from power. It definitely destabilized the country, as well as the region. Power vacuums often are filled by much worse actors. Iraqi citizens can tell you that.

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9 hours ago, third_eye said:

~

While Mr @Harte prefers the corny stiff upper lip references, I tend to pun my way through my ignorance ... ;)

~

I thought you were just quoting the Senate subcommittee on Intelligence. 

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2 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I guess that you and I agree that it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from power. It definitely destabilized the country, as well as the region. Power vacuums often are filled by much worse actors. Iraqi citizens can tell you that.

Yes, removing Saddam was a mistake. But the mistake was first made by Saddam himself, playing with the world's fears that he still had chemical weapons and was working on nukes, firing on patrols in the no fly zone, and not complying with even a single thing he agreed to when we let him off the hook the first time.

None of that is the West's fault.

Harte

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2 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

I thought you were just quoting the Senate subcommittee on Intelligence. 

You may just be not wrong along that line of deductive intention, sometime along the way you are bound to be accurately correct ,,,

~ :lol:

 

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The fact is, I have been staying away from this thread because it makes me so mad I can barely see straight.

16 years next month, our longest "war", in reality the longest running live-fire training exercise in military history. The results are that Trashcanistan has become the source for 80% of the world's opium and Taliban ethics are still popular on the streets of some cities (such as Kabul). It isn't American's vs. Taliban, its a few Americans watching un-motivated and sloppy Afghans fighting ignorant and incompetent Afghans... until it dawns on us that neither side cares about winning the war. They just enjoy taking advantage of the opportunities that war always provides. 

 

I know what this is all about, some Intel twerps came up with a "I know how we can win this!" moment, and some Political General ran with it.

CIA, NSA, some State Dept. goobers with too much time on their hands, it really makes no difference where it comes from, our Intelligence Community has a horribly bad track record, and it shows no sign of improving on it's history.

 

Let's see how much "bang for the buck" we're getting from DC's bespoke suited and storied intelligence services. Pearl Harbor in 1941, oops. The Ardennes Counteroffensive, or Battle of the Bulge, in 1944, the biggest battle fought by the US in World War II, sprung while DC was certain German resistance had collapsed. China entering the Korean War in 1950, big surprise, where did they come from?

Russia, which DC said "couldn't build a decent alarm clock", launched the first satellite ev-ver in 1957, the first of many firsts, even 'though DC's odious Operation Paperclip "guaranteed" it couldn't happen. 

Castro took over Cuba in 1959, obviously some sort of fluke. Put the 1968 Tet Offensive in Viet Nam alongside the Battle of the Bulge. Then it was DC's biggest "unknown unknown" of all time, the dissolution of the USSR in 1991. Didn't see that coming. Too busy schmoozing with their counterparts at the UN to take care of business, perhaps. 

Then came the destruction of the World Trade Center in 2001 by Moslem amateurs who all but took out announcements in the newspapers. Nobody coulda knowed, except anyone who did their job. And we can be assured they were stunned by the absolutely unpossible election of Donald Trump in 2016.

DC's intelligence services routinely embarrass themselves, decade after decade, yet they strut their stuff and talk wink-wink conspiratorially at Georgetown cocktail parties. Okay. But why do we listen to these people? They're either lying or incompetent or delusional, same result whichever way.

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8 hours ago, Harte said:

Yes, removing Saddam was a mistake. But the mistake was first made by Saddam himself, playing with the world's fears that he still had chemical weapons and was working on nukes, firing on patrols in the no fly zone, and not complying with even a single thing he agreed to when we let him off the hook the first time.

None of that is the West's fault.

Harte

The next war was the West's fault. It was built on lies and propaganda, and it led to the deaths of thousands of people. It led to the ruination of Iraq, itself. It also led to an increase in terrorism.

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As highly as Dick thinks of himself I doubt he hisself is representative of everything that is the West or the West totally makes up Halliburton in its entirety ...
 

Quote

 

~

Dick Cheney's Biggest Lie - Newsweek

www.newsweek.com/2015/05/29/dick-cheneys-biggest-lie-333097.html

May 19, 2015 - What we knew then should have kept the U.S. out of Iraq, but the ... Dick Cheney (R) looks on prior to his fourth State of the Union at the U.S. ...

~

How much money did Dick Cheney make from the wars in Iraq and ...

We're in an era where financial and political transactions are far too sophisticated and subtle for us to pull out the "War Profiteering" label and have it s...

~

A Closer Look at Cheney and Halliburton - The New York Times

www.nytimes.com/2004/09/28/us/a-closer-look-at-cheney-and-halliburton.html?...0
Sep 28, 2004 - 17, Mr. Kerry declared: "Dick Cheney's old company Halliburton has profited from the mess in Iraq at the expense of American troops and ...
 
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Bush I Says Cheney and Rumsfeld Pushed the U.S. Into War in Iraq ...

www.thefiscaltimes.com/.../Bush-I-Says-Cheney-and-Rumsfeld-Pushed-US-War-Iraq-...

Nov 5, 2015 - It wasn't long ago that former Vice President Dick Cheney and his daughter, Liz, were out flogging their book, Exceptional: Why the World ...

~

 

 

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