Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 5
Lilly

Slavery Was World Wide

177 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

20 minutes ago, Lilly said:

 

I just heard this morning that there's a call to demolish Mt Rushmore...what about the Egyptian Pyramids, the Roman Coloseum, the Great Wall of China?

 

I read a similar thing in the UK

 

Quote

 

Now they want to tear down Nelson's Column! London landmark should be toppled in wake of US statues row as the legendary figure is dubbed a 'white supremacist'

    Afua Hirsch, journalist for Sky News, said it is time to 'look at our own landscape'
    It comes after a number of campaigns to remove similar statues in the US
    She said monument in London's Trafalgar Square was a prime example of one which should be felled because Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson‎ defended slavery


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4814024/Now-want-tear-Nelson-s-Column.html#ixzz4qaKih0Rx


 

 

Edited by seeder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lilly said:

This may shock some people; hundreds (thousands) of years ago slavery was a world wide accepted condition. Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Ottomans, Chinese societies all owned slaves. Slavery wasn't just present in American society of the 18th and 19th centuries.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

Yeah, it was a disgusting practice. Basically, people in ancient times were brutal and immoral when compared with our modern standards. That said, should we remove all monuments associated with these immoral slave holding cultures? Think long and carefully here...do we just destroy any historical monuments of these societies because they engaged in the barbaric practice of slavery?

I just heard this morning that there's a call to demolish Mt Rushmore...what about the Egyptian Pyramids, the Roman Coloseum, the Great Wall of China?

The reason to move Confederate monuments is not solely because they were slave owners, that entirely bypasses the most salient point that I don't know why gets so consistently ignored: The Confederacy.  My understanding is that slavery as practiced in America (obviously not 'ancient' times) was one of it's worst and most brutal forms; some ancient slavery was significantly more humane.  The Pyramids, Colosseum, and Great Wall were not constructed with the purpose of making any statement about slavery nor in an effort to specifically perpetuate the institution, which makes them poor analogies for the Confederacy which clearly was.

 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not talking about the confederate statues. I'm all for moving those to historical sites and museums. What I'm talking about is the push to remove Mt Rushmore, the Washington monument, the Lincoln memorial and so forth.

Also, slavery in many societies was brutal. Some societies were better than others but slavery was never a good situation to be in.

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's all a deflection from the issue of removing Confederacy statues. The truth is USA slavery lasted 245 years, the Confederacy lasted 4 years what exactly do you think that those statues are celebrating? I think destroying them is dumb much in the same way book burning is dumb. They belong in museums not in parks.

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Not talking about the confederate statues. I'm all for moving those to historical sites and museums. What I'm talking about is the push to remove Mt Rushmore, the Washington monument, the Lincoln memorial and so forth.

Also, slavery in many societies was brutal. Some societies were better than others but slavery was never a good situation to be in.

Agreed, although I don't think there is really much of a 'push' to remove those other non-Confederate monuments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone actually claimed that slavery was just the US? I don't think so. 

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

first you remove them and put in museums, then later you campaign against closing museums. it is not the statues, are the problem but people who want to rewrite history. 

you forget history you are bound to repeat it, or maybe that is the idea in a first place

Edited by aztek
8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said:

That's all a deflection from the issue of removing Confederacy statues. The truth is USA slavery lasted 245 years, the Confederacy lasted 4 years what exactly do you think that those statues are celebrating? I think destroying them is dumb much in the same way book burning is dumb. They belong in museums not in parks.

The USA has only been a country for 241 years so your claim can not possibly be correct. Slavery in the USA lasted less than 100 years. Importing of new slaves was banned starting 1/1/1808.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Michelle said:

From the article, "Unfortunately, a few of UVA’s current students think Jefferson’s legacy is problematic."

Let me be more specific; "Relative to the protests and effort to move Confederate monuments, I don't think there is really much of a 'push', nor equivalent argument, for removing non-Confederate monuments of people who happen to be slave owners."  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Has anyone actually claimed that slavery was just the US? I don't think so. 

Don't ever underestimate ignorance. Not saying anyone here on UM is claiming that...but I have heard comments in 'real life' that only America had slaves.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

From the article, "Unfortunately, a few of UVA’s current students think Jefferson’s legacy is problematic."

Let me be more specific; "Relative to the protests and effort to move Confederate monuments, I don't think there is really much of a 'push', nor equivalent argument, for removing non-Confederate monuments of people who happen to be slave owners."  

All it takes is one complaint to plant the seed or one vandal.

Duke University has decided to remove the statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from the campus’s chapel entrance, a decision that comes shortly after the statue was vandalized and as the country confronts questions about what Confederacy monuments represent.

Duke President Vincent E. Price authorized the removal of the statue Saturday morning from the university’s campus in Durham, N.C. Several Confederate monuments and flags across the country have either been removed or vandalized in the days following last weekend’s deadly unrest in Charlottesville.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/08/19/in-wake-of-charlottesville-duke-university-removes-robert-e-lee-statue-after-it-was-vandalized/?utm_term=.c6b298b9cb2b

It was vandalized so it was removed. Don't underestimate how far this will go. When this all started people said it wouldn't possibly come down to removing our founding fathers. Now that we can see it heading in that direction, people still refuse to believe it could happen. There will be no discussion and no compromise.

 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really think all confederate statues and monuments need to be relocated to historical sites and/or museums. But, the push for statues and monuments to the founding fathers (and other historical figures) to be removed needs to be deemed inappropriate.

My point here is that people/societies of the past were often immoral, barbaric and flawed. This should not be a reason to think it's appropriate to destroy statues/monuments/architecture.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

All it takes is one complaint to plant the seed or one vandal.

Duke University has decided to remove the statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from the campus’s chapel entrance, a decision that comes shortly after the statue was vandalized and as the country confronts questions about what Confederacy monuments represent.

Duke President Vincent E. Price authorized the removal of the statue Saturday morning from the university’s campus in Durham, N.C. Several Confederate monuments and flags across the country have either been removed or vandalized in the days following last weekend’s deadly unrest in Charlottesville.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/08/19/in-wake-of-charlottesville-duke-university-removes-robert-e-lee-statue-after-it-was-vandalized/?utm_term=.c6b298b9cb2b

It was vandalized so it was removed. Don't underestimate how far this will go. When this all started people said it wouldn't possibly come down to removing our founding fathers. Now that we can see it heading in that direction, people still refuse to believe it could happen. There will be no discussion and no compromise.

I don't know why we're switching back to talking about Confederate monuments, the case for removing those is not just based on 'complaints', it is based on valid reasons.  If you read the article, I wouldn't phrase it just as "It was vandalized so it was removed"; from Duke's president:  I took this course of action to protect Duke Chapel, to ensure the vital safety of students and community members who worship there, and above all to express the deep and abiding values of our university,  I don't see removing the founding fathers 'heading in that direction'; I see the media hyping up the extreme views of an extreme minority, although it is a worthy topic for what should be a rather short conversation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Don't ever underestimate ignorance. Not saying anyone here on UM is claiming that...but I have heard comments in 'real life' that only America had slaves.

Well, slavery in ancient Egypt hardly can excuse slavery in supposedly modern, civilized country just few centuries ago.

Such far stretching only makes the cases of recent slavery more obviously sticking out. In a negative way, of course.   

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

I don't know why we're switching back to talking about Confederate monuments, the case for removing those is not just based on 'complaints', it is based on valid reasons.  If you read the article, I wouldn't phrase it just as "It was vandalized so it was removed"; from Duke's president:  I took this course of action to protect Duke Chapel, to ensure the vital safety of students and community members who worship there, and above all to express the deep and abiding values of our university,  I don't see removing the founding fathers 'heading in that direction'; I see the media hyping up the extreme views of an extreme minority, although it is a worthy topic for what should be a rather short conversation.

Most of these confederate monuments have been around for decades. Why are they suddenly a problem now?

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Well, slavery in ancient Egypt hardly can excuse slavery in supposedly modern, civilized country just few centuries ago.

Such far stretching only makes the cases of recent slavery more obviously sticking out. In a negative way, of course.   

I never offered any excuse for slavery at any time...just pointing out the historical reality.  

BTW, you do realize that slavery still exists in some places in the here and now (and not in America).

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bama13 said:

Most of these confederate monuments have been around for decades. Why are they suddenly a problem now?

It truly is interesting that those erected to define a place as 'Confederate' they weren't a problem before. 

Parks, cemeteries, museums, actual sites of battles or birth and death places and so on... sure. I doubt you are taking those down.   

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Well, slavery in ancient Egypt hardly can excuse slavery in supposedly modern, civilized country just few centuries ago.

Such far stretching only makes the cases of recent slavery more obviously sticking out. In a negative way, of course.   

Yes England, France, Spain, The Netherlands, Belgium, China, etc. should be ashamed of themselves.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lilly said:

I never offered any excuse for slavery at any time...just pointing out the historical reality.  

BTW, you do realize that slavery still exists in some places in the here and now (and not in America).

You didn't, indeed. The author of the article didn't either, though it was obviously the intention. 

As for the slavery today, sure I am aware. Saudi Arabia, for example. Someone should slap them with sanctions for that, at least. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I hate all the virtue signaling that is happening around these events. There is a heirachy of victimhood and that is who is calling the shots right now. Slavery was and always has been an evil. But will the family members of former slaves, will African Americans have their life improved by removing these statues? No. These statues will do nothing to help the poverty and gang violence which effects these communities. This is about a bunch of bullies wanting to virtue signal.

Edited by Rinna
9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Bama13 said:

Yes England, France, Spain, The Netherlands, Belgium, China, etc. should be ashamed of themselves.

And they mostly are. I never heard of a monument in, say, Spain, glorifying the slave trade. Correct me if I'm wrong, I prefer truth to the excuses. 

Edited by Helen of Annoy
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rinna said:

I hate all the virtue signaling that is happening around these events. Their is a heirachy of victimhood and that is who is calling the shots right now. Slavery was and always has been an evil. But will the family members of former slaves, will African Americans have their life improved by removing these statues? No. These statues will do nothing to help the poverty and gang violence which effects these communities. This is about a bunch of bullies wanting to virtue signal.

I had no idea blacks are exclusively poor and in gangs. Or that keeping Confederation within existing Union. war against which Confederation lost, is so beneficial for everyone. 

In my naivety, I thought there's no Confederate states anymore? How strange. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has nothing to do with History or Slavery, this is just some warped sense of Power Restructuring along the hallowed corridors of Power back in Washington ...

~

a rather salient point ... Slavery is as much History as is the Foundation of the Nation of the United States ...

~

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 5

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.