Paranormal proof: prize unclaimed 37 years on

[papageorge1]

54 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

So they are not predictable but they are predictable by Paranormal Investigators?  

No, they can not predict it either.

54 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

If they go to places and often record anomalies with sophisticated high-tech equipment then why can't 'mainstream' science do exactly the same?  It sure isn't because of a lack of interest.

Serious scientific investigators do that but as soon as they do they are labelled ghost-hunters, pseudo-scientists or whatever insulting term, but never 'REAL SCIENTISTS'. 

54 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

Science isn't limited to the lab, this is what field studies are for.  

My point exactly! Thank you.

54 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

Anomalous effect =/= A spirit or ghost.  Anomalous effects occur on high-tech equipment all the time, regardless of location, because they are high-tech.  In fact it is my job to fix anomalous effects on high-tech equipment...

Yes, anomalous effects on equipment doesn't prove ghosts. It is just one piece of the puzzle in forming our overall worldview of what is going on.

54 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

I was only having fun.  These cliches exist for a reason though.

Well I responded to each as I was pleased to see a post of higher quality than what I've grown accustomed to on here.

54 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

Indeed, however by your own statement observation is a precedent to understanding, it is not understanding itself and it is certainly not enough for any scientific evidence.  If your best evidence is only in observation then you are not basing your belief on scientific evidence.

Well, I actually believe mainstream science needs to remain agnostic on the question of ghosts at this time. As I have said multiple times, I consider things in addition to mainstream science in forming my personal view that ghosts exist beyond reasonable doubt. I hold that there are valid wisdom traditions providing knowledge that current science can not yet address.

Edited September 13, 2017 by papageorge1

[Stiff]

All those with telekinesis raise my hand.

[Merc14]

41 minutes ago, Stiff said:

All those with telekinesis raise my hand.

[stereologist]

So papageorge1 i til failing to grasp the basics.

So no one can predict anything. Scientist cannot. Paranormal investigators, i.e. frauds, cannot. Nothing in paranormal investigations can be predicted, but events can be labeled paranormal. Reminds me of those so-called smart guys that can't predict major downfalls in t he market the day before but can tell you the exact reason why the day after. These financial BS artists must be paranormal investigators.

[stereologist]

7 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Serious scientific investigators do that but as soon as they do they are labelled ghost-hunters, pseudo-scientists or whatever insulting term, but never 'REAL SCIENTISTS'.

You began with the inability to predict. So what hypothesis have they constructed? What is the experiment? What hypothesis is their experiment about?

That's right it is the "Will saying ghost generate revenue?" hypothesis. It does rake in money from the mentally feeble.

[Carnoferox]

35 minutes ago, stereologist said:

So papageorge1 i til failing to grasp the basics.

You should see him over on the Nazca mummy thread, where he's now supporting a known hoax that involves grave robbing and the desecration of human remains.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Carnoferox

[Merc14]

9 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

You should see him over on the Nazca mummy thread, where is supporting a known hoax that involves grave robbing and the desecration of human remains.

He is truly a special case.  We had one here named z#### (I won't post his name, in fear it summons him) that was just as bad.   He posted a video of a MiG-29 doing an air show where the pilot had gotten himself far too close to the deck and blew up a lot of dust and debris when he selected burner to get himself out of trouble.  A piece of obvious debris blew out of the frame and this individual claimed it was a UFO.  I explained what was going on but got the exact same type of response as we see from papageorge, "I know what I saw and that was a UFO."   It was so obvious his response was inexplicable but like a religious zealot, reason means nothing.  

ImCovinced is doing a fine job but it his debate with this character is tantamount to arguing with a wall.   Nothing you can say matters to papasmurf, he has established a logic train he believes is solid and anyone who pokes holes in it is a (see long list of insults throughout thread).   The only worthwhile thing anyone can do is make a logical argument that a relatively intelligent lurker can read and thereby dissuade them from becoming a similar mark for con men.

[Only_]

9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

If I had any psychic ability I would show it off. Who wouldn't? It would be a big middle finger to the doubters.

Who wants te be dragged through the mud over a bogus and impossible ''challenge''?

We all know this isn't anything more than an old publicity stunt to promote their anti-paranormal stance.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Be.cause

[Merc14]

31 minutes ago, Be.cause said:

Who wants to put his reputation on the line over a bogus and impossible ''challenge''?

We all know this isn't anything more than an old publicity stunt to promote their anti-paranormal stance.

Anyone with a true ability would have zero fear of that test, they'd welcome it.  All the skeptics I know would be thrilled to find a human with an ability to do what you fantasize about but alas, it has never happened.  Your excuse is absurd and an simply a reason to continue your fantasy.  

Edited September 14, 2017 by Merc14

[ChrLzs]

1 hour ago, Be.cause said:

Who wants te be dragged through the mud over a bogus and impossible ''challenge''?

As Merc said - anyone who had an actual ability.  To date, that means.. nobody.

1 hour ago, Be.cause said:

We all know this isn't anything more than an old publicity stunt to promote their anti-paranormal stance.

Who is 'we'?   There is an old saying about people who think they speak for everyone..........

But to be specific, which part of the rules for any of these challenges did you find unfair?  How would you have run the zoo?

[Aquila King]

3 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

You should see him over on the Nazca mummy thread, where he's now supporting a known hoax that involves grave robbing and the desecration of human remains.

[ChrLzs]

Earlier in the thread, AK, you said this:

On 9/5/2017 at 1:37 AM, Aquila King said:

There are also $1,000,000 prizes offered to those who can prove Darwinism true, put out by biblical creationist groups. Obviously it can and has been proven numerous times. So much so it makes them look like flat-earth nut jobs in the face of the blatantly obvious. Yet despite that no one's claimed the prize. Why?

Can I take a stab - I'll bet it's because they read the rules of the challenges and found them to be so subjective, or so under the control of the body offering the challenge, as to be unwinnable.  Now, you can easily prove that to be wrong by posting a link to your very favorite example of one of those darwin-ist challenges where the rules are fully outlined.  Let's look at whether they were fair or not.

Over to you.....

And then there is the question of whether it was verifiable that the money actually existed.. but let's just start with the rules - then we can compare that to the rules of the challenge referred to in the OP, or the now defunct James Randi challenge.  The JR rules were particularly kind to the challengers, imo.  Initially the challengers set their own preliminary tests to see if they got better than random results, and gee whiz, guess what.  They failed their own initial tests....

 

On 9/5/2017 at 1:37 AM, Aquila King said:

Cause the prize means nothing. There're multiple organizations (mostly skeptic or religious groups), each with their own agendas, who've offered prizes for people to prove them wrong. It's just there to further an agenda that all these organizations offering these 'prizes' have. None of them actually intend on presenting these prizes to anyone no matter what evidence the challenger presents.

Really?  Did you ever actually look at the rules, or check that the money existed?  If the rules were fair and were followed (which in the case,of JR and the OP challnge, they were/are, and the money existed (again, it did / does) ... clearly then if they withheld the money despite a 'win', those organisations would be not only destroyed by the publicity, they would be legally legless and sue-able...

On 9/5/2017 at 1:37 AM, Aquila King said:

It's just a pathetic means of furthering their dogma, nothing more.

And that;' just generalisation, unless we look at each challenge on its merits...  Shall we start by looking at the rules of the challenge named in the OP?  I'll go get that - will you get your Darwin- example?  I'm having lot's of trouble finding any $1m for proof of evolution challenges, as you claimed......

[I'mConvinced]

On 12/09/2017 at 11:30 PM, papageorge1 said:

Well, my personal belief is that science is limited to studying the physical plane only at this time. Evidence from the so-called paranormal has shown me beyond a reasonable doubt that there is much more to the universe than can be detected by our physical senses and instruments.

So you're saying they can't be measured.

19 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

First issue is that the occurrence of paranormal phenomena like ghosts are not predictable. This is not the kind of thing mainstream science can study.

Again, you're saying they can't be measured.

19 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

They are measurable but not predictably in a laboratory setting like the type of phenomena science is accustomed to.

Now you're saying they are measurable, but not in a lab. I then stated scientists do field studies and you said:

18 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

My point exactly! Thank you.

The above makes no sense. Your point is what exactly? Can you measure them or can't you? If ghost hunters can measure them then anybody should be able to measure them.

19 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Spiritual entities driven to act on the physical is rare thing.

So they are rare.

19 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

where multiple events have been reported and then they do often record anomalies

Yet they often record them.

18 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Serious scientific investigators do that but as soon as they do they are labelled ghost-hunters, pseudo-scientists or whatever insulting term, but never 'REAL SCIENTISTS'

If they returned any scientific evidence at all they wouldn't be labelled so.  Over the years many studies have been attempted and all have failed to provide any repeatable evidence for one reason or another.  

How are we to have a discussion if you contradict yourself in this way? 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by I'mConvinced

[papageorge1]

4 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

 

How are we to have a discussion if you contradict yourself in this way? 

 

Nothing of the spiritual plane can be measured by the physical plane. However, the spiritual plane's random unpredictable affect on the physical plane (heat changes, images on camera, etc.) can be measured by devices on the physical plane. So, where is  the confusion or contradiction? 

Edited September 14, 2017 by papageorge1

[papageorge1]

23 hours ago, XenoFish said:

If I had any psychic ability I would show it off. Who wouldn't? It would be a big middle finger to the doubters.

No, you would get the Uri Geller treatment from the doubters.

Edited September 14, 2017 by papageorge1

[Stiff]

13 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

No, you would get the Uri Geller treatment from the doubters.

[Merc14]

14 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

No, you would get the Uri Geller treatment from the doubters.

In other words a controlled test that you fail?   How is it wrong to ask Geller to do his spoon bending on a spoon you provide?

[XenoFish]

15 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

No, you would get the Uri Geller treatment from the doubters.

Not if I'm intentionally trying to scam people. The first ones I'd go to would be the scientists.

[papageorge1]

Just now, Merc14 said:

In other words a controlled test that you fail?   How is it wrong to ask Geller to do his spoon bending on a spoon you provide?

You don't intend to, but you are actually providing examples of what I said.

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Not if I'm intentionally trying to scam people. The first ones I'd go to would be the scientists.

Oh, how they were fooled by a second-rate magician we would hear.

[Merc14]

24 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

You don't intend to, but you are actually providing examples of what I said.

I asked why you think it is so wrong and you post this meaningless sentence?   Why in the world would anyone allow the man to use a spoon h has had control over when they know how the trick works?  

[Dejarma]

On 04/09/2017 at 5:12 PM, acute said:

^ I agree, these 'prizes' are meaningless, like the James Randi one was.

In that spirit... I am offering a million dollars to anyone who can prove to my satisfaction that an elephant is not a fish.

This challenge would only mean something if someone is saying an elephant is a fish...

I don't think anyone is questioning it though.. So IMO a ridiculous challenge to be honest.. All due respect

[XenoFish]

Papa Smurf. Trying to converse with you is like talking to a wall. No that's not right, a wall would be easy compared to you. Didn't your alien mummy thread get locked because of how no one could actually communicate with you. What are you Walker 2.0?

[papageorge1]

23 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

I asked why you think it is so wrong and you post this meaningless sentence?   Why in the world would anyone allow the man to use a spoon h has had control over when they know how the trick works?  

Because he often bends their stuff I think you know ........the denial and distortion of facts is the Geller treatment 

[Merc14]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

Because he often bends their stuff I think you know ........the denial and distortion of facts is the Geller treatment 

No, actually he doesn't unless he or his people are allowed to handle it in advance at which point the real magic occurs.