RavenHawk Posted September 7, 2017 #1 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I’m surprised that no one has brought this up yet: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41181209 The Republicans won’t work with Trump, so he’ll work with the Democrats. That has to be very embarrassing for Repubs. That is a clear no-confidence in McConnell and Ryan. Even though they command a whopping 16% approval rating, the Dems can only muster 12%, yet it looks like Trump may be able to get more done with them. What is the mid-term outlook on the net change of seats in Congress? Trump isn’t as politically ideological and will get whoever he can in the right places to turn this nation around. Trump’s party is America and are we about to see a shift in power? I think the GOP has about 6 months to turn it around or they’re going to be wondering what happened. Let's see how fast the Establishment gets tax reform passed now with time left over to go back and take care of healthcare and daca. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted September 7, 2017 #2 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Well.. yes... "sort of".. BUT... shouldn't the USA government be able to afford emergency relief WITHOUT borrowing more money ? How is it going to be paid back ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted September 7, 2017 Author #3 Share Posted September 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Well.. yes... "sort of".. BUT... shouldn't the USA government be able to afford emergency relief WITHOUT borrowing more money ? How is it going to be paid back ? I agree but the point is perception. Trump sidestepped the GOP to make this deal. It’s something that needs to happen but it shows that Trump doesn’t need the GOP. You mess with Trump and you pay the price. It’s karma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeresExpo2000 Posted September 7, 2017 #4 Share Posted September 7, 2017 1 minute ago, RavenHawk said: I agree but the point is perception. Trump sidestepped the GOP to make this deal. It’s something that needs to happen but it shows that Trump doesn’t need the GOP. You mess with Trump and you pay the price. It’s karma. President Trumps primary concern was for the military funding. $$$ He made a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnchorSteam Posted September 7, 2017 #5 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Agreed. The old-fart Neo-Cons have sabotaged themselves so badly that a 3rd Party has never been more viable. It is actually possible that Trump could get more done with a Democrat Senate, that much is becoming clear. I plan to vote against every Republican that I can next year. RENO= Re-Elect NObody! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted September 7, 2017 Author #6 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I am definitely voting an anti-incumbent platform. I don’t care who the challenger is. With someone like Trump at the helm, party is meaningless, just as the Founding Fathers wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted September 7, 2017 #7 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Why bother working the the Democrats? They are effectively useless. Republicans control the House and Senate and what they decide is what goes. The only thing Democrats can do is boost one side or the other of an internal Republican dispute. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeresExpo2000 Posted September 8, 2017 #8 Share Posted September 8, 2017 18 hours ago, Gromdor said: Why bother working the the Democrats? They are effectively useless. Republicans control the House and Senate and what they decide is what goes. The only thing Democrats can do is boost one side or the other of an internal Republican dispute. The never Trumpers like Senator McCain can be BYPASSED by siding with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. President Trump has a done deal now. McCain is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Caspian Hare Posted September 8, 2017 #9 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Exactly what he should have done at the current time (natural disasters and foreign crisis is no time to tinker ideologically with debt ceiling/government funding.) And exactly image he wants to show ("pragmatic deal cutter" who can get something done when his own party cannot.) If he cut another deal with them it might be something REpublican party leadership doesn't like. Since is not ideologically anchored he is flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted September 8, 2017 #10 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Looks like his deal worked. The bills passed both the House and Senate with 90 and 17 Republican no's respectively. Looks like both my Republican senators voted no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted September 8, 2017 #11 Share Posted September 8, 2017 The Repubs control the House AND the Senate yet most of Trump's promises are still sitting dormant. The GOP wants things to stay the same, as do the DNC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnchorSteam Posted September 9, 2017 #12 Share Posted September 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Dark_Grey said: The Repubs control the House AND the Senate yet most of Trump's promises are still sitting dormant. The GOP wants things to stay the same, as do the DNC. And in that, they are alone. What more proof do you need that the DC bubble is tone-deaf, and just plain ignorant of the nation around them? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted September 9, 2017 #13 Share Posted September 9, 2017 siding with the democrats was a good move - idealogically the Republicans were not equiped to deliver what was needed. But just how many trillion is the US in debt - and who the hell do they owe it to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted September 9, 2017 #14 Share Posted September 9, 2017 We've known all along that Trump is not a politician, that's a large part of what got him elected. That frees him to do whatever he wants with whomever he chooses. The Republicans haven't treated him or supported him like he's one of them so why should they expect him to act like it? He's a businessman who is no doubt accustomed to working with whoever is necessary to get the job done. He's goal oriented, not party oriented. This move could actually gain him more Republican support in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted September 10, 2017 #15 Share Posted September 10, 2017 11 hours ago, RAyMO said: siding with the democrats was a good move - idealogically the Republicans were not equiped to deliver what was needed. But just how many trillion is the US in debt - and who the hell do they owe it to? A lot of it is owed to yourselves, China has a bit of it, certain big businesses .... but the most, IIRC is from robbing Peter to pay Paul. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted September 10, 2017 #16 Share Posted September 10, 2017 11 hours ago, RAyMO said: siding with the democrats was a good move - idealogically the Republicans were not equiped to deliver what was needed. But just how many trillion is the US in debt - and who the hell do they owe it to? The federal reserve largely , then yeah china etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted September 10, 2017 #17 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: A lot of it is owed to yourselves That brought a smile - I doubt the US owes money to my country N Ireland - If it does give it back now - we need it. But more seriously if the bulk is to the Fed reserve is more akin to a faux debt than a real one? How serious is owing debt to china if relations sour - genuine question - don't know the answer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted September 10, 2017 #18 Share Posted September 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Big Jim said: The Republicans haven't treated him or supported him like he's one of them He is not one of them - something they (I think) should have realised before they let him stand on their ticket. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted September 10, 2017 #19 Share Posted September 10, 2017 On 08/09/2017 at 3:09 PM, CeresExpo2000 said: ......McCain is irrelevant. Well, possibly. But he still makes excellent oven chips ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted September 10, 2017 #20 Share Posted September 10, 2017 11 hours ago, RAyMO said: That brought a smile - I doubt the US owes money to my country N Ireland - If it does give it back now - we need it. But more seriously if the bulk is to the Fed reserve is more akin to a faux debt than a real one? How serious is owing debt to china if relations sour - genuine question - don't know the answer. If we don't owe you a lot of money, we sure owe you a debt of gratitude for all of the fine policemen and excellent parades you provide us. By the way, my favorite cheese at Costco is an Irish cheddar. I am doing my small part to help you out. Don't think of the US or any other country wit private property as a monolithic block. Nations are made of individuals. A lot of debts are between individuals and corporations. If the government wants to pay for a program it has not accounted for in its budget, it can sell bonds. If it wants to give 60 billion dollars for victims of the hurricanes, it gives them the money and increases the debt. The hurricane victims get their money, the bond holders get interest (part of the interest on the national debt). Meanwhile the money doesn't come out of thin air, American taxpayers are obligated through taxes to pay the Harvey and Irma victims and the bond holders their interest. The bondholders could be China or Goldman Sachs. In a way it is a transfer of money from the middle class to the 1%, sort of a trickle up. I rather like balanced budgets for the most part, knowing that in times of war or natural disaster, some money might be borrowed. Tax reform has nothing to do with the hurricanes or raising the debt limit. In this area I disagree with most Republicans and Democrats. The so-called tax reform as it now stands is aimed at the upper income brackets. It will increase the debt. When people say it will spur the economy, that is largely false. Demand increases the economy and provides jobs, not rich and benevolent investment banks or hedge funds. Corporations are already sitting on trillions of dollars that they stash overseas or use to buy back stock. If they believed that building new plants would generate income, they could easily do it now. They won't build a new widget factory until people want widgets and can pay for them. The fastest way to stimulate the US economy with a million dollars is to transfer it to 10,000 low income families who will use it to buy groceries, gas, clothes, and pay their utility bills, not give it to an investment banker who will invest it in foreign stocks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted September 10, 2017 #21 Share Posted September 10, 2017 21 hours ago, Big Jim said: We've known all along that Trump is not a politician, that's a large part of what got him elected. That frees him to do whatever he wants with whomever he chooses. The Republicans haven't treated him or supported him like he's one of them so why should they expect him to act like it? He's a businessman who is no doubt accustomed to working with whoever is necessary to get the job done. He's goal oriented, not party oriented. This move could actually gain him more Republican support in the future. President Trump calls it making a deal and acts as if he invented it. For the last 200 years we have called it compromising. Whatever we call it, moving forward is going to take some combined efforts from both parties. No group gets everything they want, but we move along with policies that most people can live with. If he crosses the aisle and enlists some democrats, he will diminish the power of a small group, the tea party republicans to be a roadblock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnchorSteam Posted September 10, 2017 #22 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Tatetopa said: The fastest way to stimulate the US economy with a million dollars is to transfer it to 10,000 low income families who will use it to buy groceries, gas, clothes, and pay their utility bills, not give it to an investment banker who will invest it in foreign stocks. There is a problem with that; giving people $100 because you are hoping they will blow it on something as soon as the get it is an assumption, and one that takes no account of the individual. If they weren't spending money because they are afraid they will need it for an emergency soon, a little extra cash isn't going to change their minds. BTW, didn't Bush try this very thing, not long before the crash of 2008? As I recall, it didn't help much. This debt routine is beyond insane. It is also despicable, and indicates a society that has left decadence far behind and is not in free-fall, going past degenerate and straight to disgusting. The debt enslaves the next half-dozen generations of Americans, at least, to whoever picks up that debt. Either that, or they can refuse the debt, and the whole economy just goes away. What do you all think of your Karma now? The people alive today will be cursed forever as the worst Americans that ever lived, and possible the most selfish and/or ignorant people in world history. So, pass the refer, might as well have something to show for all this... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted September 12, 2017 #23 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 9/10/2017 at 3:00 PM, AnchorSteam said: There is a problem with that; giving people $100 because you are hoping they will blow it on something as soon as the get it is an assumption, and one that takes no account of the individual. True. Would you spend $100 on gas groceries and clothes if you got a refund check in the mail? If not, you are already doing OK. There seem to be a lot of people though that would do that. I don't think $100 would improve anybodies life very much, but 10 million people are a distribution network. If they all spend it in local stores, rural businesses for example, it would do the merchants some good and might create a few jobs here and there. What we are doing to our kids and grand kids is disgusting. Some economists may be smart enough to pull the right levers and generate increased prosperity and pay off the debt, but I am of little faith on that. Simpler is better, less spending and no tax cuts for anybody until we pay down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted September 12, 2017 #24 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 9/10/2017 at 3:40 PM, RAyMO said: How serious is owing debt to china if relations sour - genuine question - don't know the answer. Its not only China, and its gonna be making Greece across the Atlantic ... ~ google links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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