Russia probes kick into high gear

[Tiggs]

42 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

It's likely a waste of time and money as political witch hunts often are. 

Political witch hunts generally aren't launched by their own party.
 

42 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

It's an investigation in search of a crime. There's no evidence of collusion. Trump would be gone by now if there was. The investigation(s) probably will continue in some form or another. The past *year* of investigation(s), none of which has shown evidence of collusion, demonstrate this. I'll give a big donation to the charity of your choice if there's evidence of real collusion.

If collusion is uncovered, I'm sure that the Free Wheelchair Mission would be delighted to accept whatever you could spare.
 

42 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Even Mueller likely knows that there was no conspiracy between Trump and Putin, which is just one reason why I question the real motives of this fishing expedition.

Where do you think he's indicated that, exactly?
 

[Tiggs]

9 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It's pretty good that this has been brought to light because this likely is at least part of the reason the man was taken off the investigation. Considering that we haven't seen his messages, no one actually knew why he was removed. This seems to give us a clue to the reasoning.

Different guy. This is Bruce Ohr's wife. Bruce Ohr works in the DOJ, not Mueller's team.

Peter Strzok is the FBI agent on Mueller's team, who had an affair, and sent the text messages.

[ian hacktorp]

9 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Political witch hunts generally aren't launched by their own party.

Bipartisan criminality is criminality nonetheless.

[.ZZ.]

20 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It's pretty good that this has been brought to light because this likely is at least part of the reason the man was taken off the investigation. Considering that we haven't seen his messages, no one actually knew why he was removed. This seems to give us a clue to the reasoning.

So many still continue to post about this guy as though it supports their theory that the investigation is biased. Mueller acting on it shows the exact opposite is true. It makes no sense - there's no logic behind this reasoning at all. If he were biased then he wouldn't have done anything about it. In fact, according to some on here, Mueller would have picked him for his bias.

I really have some catching up to do.

I thought he was demoted at DOJ.

ETA: I just now saw Tigg's post.

Edited December 12, 2017 by .ZZ.

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Where's the proof that Trump plotted with Putin to win the presidency? Hasn't that Junior charge been debunked, by the way?

Do you mean the Tower meeting? No, that hasn't. Jr has lied about that meeting on numerous occasions, changing his story each time. The latest lie exposed appearing to be his denial that they spoke about the DNC hack. We now know that Goldstone remembers talking about the DNC hack, and he confirmed it in an email sent 5 days after the meeting. This would appear to support the theory of collusion in a big way.

If you are referring to Wikileaks, then that's not been debunked either. I think you are talking about the charge that he was in contact with them before the drip drip drip began? That's not what I was referring to (I asked ZZ about it earlier in the thread - though I did add 'the leaks' in that reply to you by mistake. I have corrected it. I blame the mistake on insomnia and the fact that I was lying in bed using my phone to reply. Apologies). I was referring to the numerous examples of them coordinating during and after the election:

Quote

 On October 7, less than an hour after the Washington Post released the Access Hollywood tape, in which Trump bragged about sexually assaulting women, Wikileaks released emails that hackers had pilfered from the personal email account of Clinton’s campaign manager John Podesta.

The above quote is just interesting because it shows Wikileaks was acting as damage control for Trump's campaign. No coordination that we know of here, but definitely interesting to see how the campaign was being helped by an organisation that, before Trump's run at the Presidency, I hadn't seen a single conservative in the US claim was anything other than an enemy of your country. 

Quote

On October 3, 2016, WikiLeaks wrote again. “Hiya, it’d be great if you guys could comment on/push this story,” WikiLeaks suggested, attaching a quote from then-Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton about wanting to “just drone” WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange.

“Already did that earlier today,” Trump Jr. responded an hour-and-a-half later. “It’s amazing what she can get away with.”

 

Quote

Two minutes later, Trump Jr. wrote again, asking, “What’s behind this Wednesday leak I keep reading about?” The day before, Roger Stone, an informal advisor to Donald Trump, had tweeted, “Wednesday@HillaryClinton is done. #WikiLeaks.”

WikiLeaks didn’t respond to that message, but on October 12, 2016, the account again messaged Trump Jr. “Hey Donald, great to see you and your dad talking about our publications,” WikiLeaks wrote. (At a rally on October 10, Donald Trump had proclaimed, “I love WikiLeaks!”)

“Strongly suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us,” WikiLeaks went on, pointing Trump Jr. to the link wlsearch.tk, which it said would help Trump’s followers dig through the trove of stolen documents and find stories. “There’s many great stories the press are missing and we’re sure some of your follows [sic] will find it,” WikiLeaks went on. “Btw we just released Podesta Emails Part 4.”

Trump Jr. did not respond to this message. But just 15 minutes after it was sent, as The Wall Street Journal’s Byron Tau pointed out, Donald Trump himself tweeted, “Very little pick-up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest! Rigged system!”

Two days later, on October 14, 2016, Trump Jr. tweeted out the link WikiLeaks had provided him. “For those who have the time to read about all the corruption and hypocrisy all the @wikileaks emails are right here: http://wlsearch.tk/,” he wrote.

 

Quote

“Hey Don. We have an unusual idea,” WikiLeaks wrote on October 21, 2016. “Leak us one or more of your father’s tax returns.” WikiLeaks then laid out three reasons why this would benefit both the Trumps and WikiLeaks. One, The New York Times had already published a fragment of Trump’s tax returns on October 1; two, the rest could come out any time “through the most biased source (e.g. NYT/MSNBC).”

It is the third reason, though, WikiLeaks wrote, that “is the real kicker.” “If we publish them it will dramatically improve the perception of our impartiality,” WikiLeaks explained. “That means that the vast amount of stuff that we are publishing on Clinton will have much higher impact, because it won’t be perceived as coming from a ‘pro-Trump’ ‘pro-Russia’ source.” It then provided an email address and link where the Trump campaign could send the tax returns, and adds, “The same for any other negative stuff (documents, recordings) that you think has a decent chance of coming out. Let us put it out.”

Trump Jr. did not respond to this message.

 

Quote

WikiLeaks didn’t write again until Election Day, November 8, 2016. “Hi Don if your father ‘loses’ we think it is much more interesting if he DOES NOT conceed [sic] and spends time CHALLENGING the media and other types of rigging that occurred—as he has implied that he might do,” WikiLeaks wrote at 6:35pm, when the idea that Clinton would win was still the prevailing conventional wisdom. (As late as 7:00pm that night, FiveThirtyEight, a trusted prognosticator of the election, gave Clinton a 71 percent chance of winning the presidency.) WikiLeaks insisted that contesting the election results would be good for Trump’s rumored plans to start a media network should he lose the presidency. “The discussion can be transformative as it exposes media corruption, primary corruption, PAC corruption, etc.,” WikiLeaks wrote.

That last one is just shocking, more than anything. You have Wikileaks trying to suggest that Trump sow discontent in the US. I can just imagine the reaction that would have elicited. 

And of course then we have the infamous emails that Jr released himself:

Quote

“Hi Don. Sorry to hear about your problems,” WikiLeaks wrote. “We have an idea that may help a little. We are VERY interested in confidentially obtaining and publishing a copy of the email(s) cited in the New York Times today,” citing a reference in the paper to emails Trump Jr had exchanged with Rob Goldstone, a publicist who had helped set up the meeting. “We think this is strongly in your interest,” WikiLeaks went on. It then reprised many of the same arguments it made in trying to convince Trump Jr. to turn over his father’s tax returns, including the argument that Trump’s enemies in the press were using the emails to spin an unfavorable narrative of the meeting. “Us publishing not only deprives them of this ability but is beautifully confounding.”

The message was sent at 9:29 am on July 11. Trump Jr. did not respond, but just hours later, he posted the emails himself, on his own Twitter feed.

 

He didn't reply to all of the messages, but he clearly coordinated with Wikileaks on many issues, reacting in some way to Wikileaks requests. He has lied on numerous occasions about even being in contact with Wikileaks.

Now, if the Trump team had nothing to hide, why would they feel the need to continually lie about having contact with these groups? It shows that they are obviously hiding something, wouldn't you agree? Further evidence of having something to hide was when, last week, he incorrectly invoked attorney client privilege to avoid answering questions under oath about a phone call he had with his father. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[ExpandMyMind]

52 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

I really have some catching up to do.

I thought he was demoted at DOJ.

ETA: I just now saw Tigg's post.

I'm so tired I can barely even think. 

[Tiggs]

1 hour ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Where's the proof that Trump plotted with Putin to win the presidency? Hasn't that Junior charge been debunked, by the way?

Mueller's already had one of the attendees of that meeting -- Rinat Akhmetshin -- testify in front of a Grand Jury for several hours.

That's a fairly good indication it hasn't been debunked -- or at least -- not from Mueller's perspective.

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, and then said:

On this, we agree.  I've said it often.  No current politician that I can think of has the integrity to risk his/her seat by removing a president that still has significant popular support.  

His approval rating is nearly as low as Nixon's was during Watergate. His net approval rating is actually worse.

[ExpandMyMind]

Has Roger Stone been interviewed by Mueller yet? He seemed to know a hell of a lot about what Wikileaks was up to during the campaign.

[+joc]

3 hours ago, Tiggs said:

A coup? With, like, guns?

As opposed to, say, Mueller finding evidence of criminal wrongdoing, followed by a bipartisan impeachment?

Or does any removal of Trump constitute a coup, from your perspective?

Smh

[+joc]

46 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

His approval rating is nearly as low as Nixon's was during Watergate. His net approval rating is actually worse.

Only among Leftist Statists...his support base hasn't really diminished at all.

[+joc]

54 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Do you mean the Tower meeting? No, that hasn't. Jr has lied about that meeting on numerous occasions, changing his story each time. The latest lie exposed appearing to be his denial that they spoke about the DNC hack. We now know that Goldstone remembers talking about the DNC hack, and he confirmed it in an email sent 5 days after the meeting. This would appear to support the theory of collusion in a big way.

If you are referring to Wikileaks, then that's not been debunked either. I think you are talking about the charge that he was in contact with them before the drip drip drip began? That's not what I was referring to (I asked ZZ about it earlier in the thread - though I did add 'the leaks' in that reply to you by mistake. I have corrected it. I blame the mistake on insomnia and the fact that I was lying in bed using my phone to reply. Apologies). I was referring to the numerous examples of them coordinating during and after the election:

The above quote is just interesting because it shows Wikileaks was acting as damage control for Trump's campaign. No coordination that we know of here, but definitely interesting to see how the campaign was being helped by an organisation that, before Trump's run at the Presidency, I hadn't seen a single conservative in the US claim was anything other than an enemy of your country. 

 

 

 

That last one is just shocking, more than anything. You have Wikileaks trying to suggest that Trump sow discontent in the US. I can just imagine the reaction that would have elicited. 

And of course then we have the infamous emails that Jr released himself:

 

He didn't reply to all of the messages, but he clearly coordinated with Wikileaks on many issues, reacting in some way to Wikileaks requests. He has lied on numerous occasions about even being in contact with Wikileaks.

Now, if the Trump team had nothing to hide, why would they feel the need to continually lie about having contact with these groups? It shows that they are obviously hiding something, wouldn't you agree? Further evidence of having something to hide was when, last week, he incorrectly invoked attorney client privilege to avoid answering questions under oath about a phone call he had with his father. 

That is way too much info for a post...a blog maybe..just saying

[Paranormal Panther]

3 hours ago, Tiggs said:

Political witch hunts generally aren't launched by their own party.
 

If collusion is uncovered, I'm sure that the Free Wheelchair Mission would be delighted to accept whatever you could spare.
 

Where do you think he's indicated that, exactly?
 

A witch hunt is a witch hunt, and Graham and McCain both show that one's political part is irrelevant. Anyway, that sounds like a good charity, one of the small ones that needs more attention. As for Mueller knowing the whole Russian thing is BS, he doesn't have to say a thing. It's just common sense.

[Paranormal Panther]

2 hours ago, Tiggs said:

Mueller's already had one of the attendees of that meeting -- Rinat Akhmetshin -- testify in front of a Grand Jury for several hours.

That's a fairly good indication it hasn't been debunked -- or at least -- not from Mueller's perspective.

I'm referring to the CNN claim, on Wikileaks, that they erroneously reported. It's yet more bogus nonsense that likely has no basis in reality. Get back to me when they prove that Assange and Trump Jr. discussed the hacked emails from the Democratic campaign. I was talking about that.

[Paranormal Panther]

2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Do you mean the Tower meeting? No, that hasn't. Jr has lied about that meeting on numerous occasions, changing his story each time. The latest lie exposed appearing to be his denial that they spoke about the DNC hack. We now know that Goldstone remembers talking about the DNC hack, and he confirmed it in an email sent 5 days after the meeting. This would appear to support the theory of collusion in a big way.

If you are referring to Wikileaks, then that's not been debunked either. I think you are talking about the charge that he was in contact with them before the drip drip drip began? That's not what I was referring to (I asked ZZ about it earlier in the thread - though I did add 'the leaks' in that reply to you by mistake. I have corrected it. I blame the mistake on insomnia and the fact that I was lying in bed using my phone to reply. Apologies). I was referring to the numerous examples of them coordinating during and after the election:

The above quote is just interesting because it shows Wikileaks was acting as damage control for Trump's campaign. No coordination that we know of here, but definitely interesting to see how the campaign was being helped by an organisation that, before Trump's run at the Presidency, I hadn't seen a single conservative in the US claim was anything other than an enemy of your country. 

 

 

 

That last one is just shocking, more than anything. You have Wikileaks trying to suggest that Trump sow discontent in the US. I can just imagine the reaction that would have elicited. 

And of course then we have the infamous emails that Jr released himself:

 

He didn't reply to all of the messages, but he clearly coordinated with Wikileaks on many issues, reacting in some way to Wikileaks requests. He has lied on numerous occasions about even being in contact with Wikileaks.

Now, if the Trump team had nothing to hide, why would they feel the need to continually lie about having contact with these groups? It shows that they are obviously hiding something, wouldn't you agree? Further evidence of having something to hide was when, last week, he incorrectly invoked attorney client privilege to avoid answering questions under oath about a phone call he had with his father. 

This isn't proof that Assange and Trump Jr. discussed the hacked emails from the Democratic campaign. I was referring to that. I looked at the tweet, and I found nothing that showed that the two met. I probably misunderstood your initial post, so it seems like we're discussing two different things. I need a scorecard with all of these allegations and names. I usually rush through these posts and type whatever comes to mind. This stuff is complicated, as well as convoluted. I'll consider a diagram for this thread. 

[ExpandMyMind]

Jailed Russian hacker: I hacked Democrats 'under the command' of Russian intelligence agents

Quote

A Russian hacker believed to be a member of a hacking collective called Lurk said in court over the summer that he was ordered by Russia's security services, known as the FSB, to hack the Democratic National Committee.

The hacker, Konstantin Kozlovsky, told a Moscow court in August of this year that his nine-member hacking group — which has been accused of stealing over $17 million from Russia's largest financial institutions since 2013 — has been cooperating with the FSB for several years, according to the independent Russian news outlet The Bell. Part of that cooperation included hacking the DNC, he said.

Kozlovsky said during a hearing on August 15 that he "performed various tasks under the supervision of FSB officers," including a DNC hack and cyberattacks on "very serious military enterprises of the United States and other organizations."

Minutes from the hearing, as well as an audio recording, were posted on Kozlovsky's Facebook page. The Bell said it confirmed their authenticity with two sources, including a person who was present at the hearing. Kozlovsky also posted a letter that he wrote on November 1, 2016. The letter outlined what he said was his work for the FSB, which he said had spanned nearly a decade and, most recently, involved attacking the DNC servers.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/russian-hacker-democrats-dnc-intelligence-2017-12?r=US&IR=T

Interesting.

Edited December 12, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[bee]

1 hour ago, Paranormal Panther said:

This isn't proof that Assange and Trump Jr. discussed the hacked emails from the Democratic campaign. I was referring to that. I looked at the tweet, and I found nothing that showed that the two met. I probably misunderstood your initial post, so it seems like we're discussing two different things. I need a scorecard with all of these allegations and names. I usually rush through these posts and type whatever comes to mind. This stuff is complicated, as well as convoluted. I'll consider a diagram for this thread. 

 

the vicious and deceitful campaign to try and manage perception that there was '''collusion''' is very polluting -

not just for individuals but for the US and the West  - *slow hand clap for all involved*

very corrosive and swampy -- ugh - just reading  some posts makes you feel like you need to take a thought shower
and scrub away the unhealthy nonsense -

IMO  

 

[bee]

4 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Goldstone

 

A music publicist who became a key player in the meeting between with President Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. and a Russian lawyer says he regrets his role in the arrangement, and that he "puffed up" the wording of his email communications.  

link

 

[bee]

6 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

That's fine. Where's the evidence of collusion?

 

They seek it here - they seek it there -  

But at the end of the day they will make do with any old convoluted crapola to try and
bring down the democratically elected president - what a shameful state of affairs -

The Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves - 

 

 

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

A witch hunt is a witch hunt, and Graham and McCain both show that one's political part is irrelevant. Anyway, that sounds like a good charity, one of the small ones that needs more attention. As for Mueller knowing the whole Russian thing is BS, he doesn't have to say a thing. It's just common sense.

I agree, and I'm with you on that little wager.  IF proof comes forward that can be corroborated, I'll send the Free Wheelchair Mission 100 bucks too.  Heck, it's Christmas, I'll send them $50 just because  

[RAyMO]

1 hour ago, bee said:

The Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves - 

To be fair I think they started spinning when they saw the final candidate list.

Edited December 12, 2017 by RAyMO

[Space Commander Travis]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, it probably has, but it's hard to keep up with what has and hasn't been said, particularly as I tend to skip over some people's posts. Anyway, this alleged smoking gnu turned out to be, well, a bit of a fib really:  https://theintercept.com/2017/12/09/the-u-s-media-yesterday-suffered-its-most-humiliating-debacle-in-ages-now-refuses-all-transparency-over-what-happened/

FRIDAY WAS ONE of the most embarrassing days for the U.S. media in quite a long time. The humiliation orgy was kicked off by CNN, with MSNBC and CBS close behind, and countless pundits, commentators, and operatives joining the party throughout the day. By the end of the day, it was clear that several of the nation’s largest and most influential news outlets had spread an explosive but completely false news story to millions of people, while refusing to provide any explanation of how it happened.

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, bee said:

 

 

link

 

Different email.

[Astra.]

42 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

To be fair I think they started spinning when the saw the final candidate list.

[bee]

45 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Different email.

Goldstone spoke of emails (plural) and communications (plural)  being 'puffed up' not one in particular - - 

Quote

A music publicist who became a key player in the meeting between with President Trump's son Donald Trump Jr. and a Russian lawyer says he regrets his role in the arrangement, and that he "puffed up" the wording of his email communications.

and you are making assumptions with the email you are hailing  

'''This would appear to support the theory of collusion in a big way.''' you said - 

but you don't know what was being referred to - when he spoke of '''eeirily weird'' - perhaps the two men had talked about
the possibility of THEIR own emails being looked at by the Intelligence Services -..?

oh and another thing I notice is the constant reference to a hack rather than a leak - trying to pound 'hack' into the narrative
with a sledge hammer   --  

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by bee