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Farmer77

Donald Trump uses Irma to argue for tax cuts

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Posted (edited)

Hypocrisy and oligarchical behavior at its finest 

 Donald Trump uses Hurricane Irma to argue for tax cuts

Quote

As Hurricane Irma tore a path through the Caribbean, EPA chief Scott Pruitt argued that Americans shouldn’t talk about the storm being a possible effect of climate change, given that “helping people, or actually facing the effect of the storm” was a more pressing concern.

 

With the hurricane barreling down on Florida on Saturday, however, President Donald Trump decided that the subject of tax cuts was worth talking about in the context of the tropical storm.

“Tax cuts and tax reform. I think now with what’s happened with the hurricane, I’m going to ask for a speed up,” Trump said at a news conference. “I wanted a speedup anyway, but now we need it even more so.”

 

 

Trump’s $4.8 Trillion Tax Proposals Would Not Benefit All States or Taxpayers Equally

 

Quote

The administration’s plans regarding taxes are still hazy, but based upon the details released thus far, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy estimated in July that more than 60 percent of the reductions would go to the top 1 percent of taxpayers.

USbarchart.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Farmer77

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This is an excellent illustration of the purported plan from Trump and company and how it will affect Americans. 

 

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Who pays the greater percentage of total tax revenue? It's a little more complicated than one thinks.                https://www.thoughtco.com/who-pays-the-most-us-income-tax-3321637                                                                        

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4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Who pays the greater percentage of total tax revenue? It's a little more complicated than one thinks.                https://www.thoughtco.com/who-pays-the-most-us-income-tax-3321637                                                                        

I've said before that I dont really have a good solution, I just do know that "trickle down economics" hasnt worked well for the majority. For me I guess I dont really care about overall numbers as much as I do the actual real life impact those numbers have on the population. 

 

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Just now, Farmer77 said:

I've said before that I dont really have a good solution, I just do know that "trickle down economics" hasnt worked well for the majority. For me I guess I dont really care about overall numbers as much as I do the actual real life impact those numbers have on the population. 

 

Well, the top fifty percent of wage earners pay 94 percent of tax revenue and the much maligned rich pay their salaries. I don't know about you, but--if  I paid more in taxes than most people, I expect my tax cut would be proportionately larger. If the government was taking from the rich and spreading the wealth, that would be a fine thing. What it does, instead, is take advantage of the well-to-do to line it's own pockets.

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Here's something to mull over a little bit: If you tax business at sky high levels, place all sorts of constraints upon business, make it so that small business can barely stay above water....what do you think happens? Do you think larger businesses will stay in your country, or perhaps they will just out source to other nations, or leave altogether? Do you think these businesses will build factories in your nation, or hire people from your nation? Do you think your economy will grow and prosper? Do you think your people will have plenty of good jobs, 401K's that grow, can add to the economy verses just going on welfare? Will your nation thrive as the tax rate climbs and the only thing that essentially grows is the government?

Take a look at this: https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2016/

Is it any wonder business is out sourcing or just simply leaving the United States.

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22 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Here's something to mull over a little bit: If you tax business at sky high levels, place all sorts of constraints upon business, make it so that small business can barely stay above water....what do you think happens? Do you think larger businesses will stay in your country, or perhaps they will just out source to other nations, or leave altogether? Do you think these businesses will build factories in your nation, or hire people from your nation? Do you think your economy will grow and prosper? Do you think your people will have plenty of good jobs, 401K's that grow, can add to the economy verses just going on welfare? Will your nation thrive as the tax rate climbs and the only thing that essentially grows is the government?

Take a look at this: https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2016/

Is it any wonder business is out sourcing or just simply leaving the United States.

Perhaps we should be taxing the 1% a tad more and industry a tad less? 

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1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Perhaps we should be taxing the 1% a tad more and industry a tad less? 

I have no problem with that. Unfortunately though, the super rich generally have the legal resources to protect their billions. Perhaps we need a change in the tax laws, not just a change in the tax rates.

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4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I've said before that I dont really have a good solution, I just do know that "trickle down economics" hasnt worked well for the majority. For me I guess I dont really care about overall numbers as much as I do the actual real life impact those numbers have on the population. 

 

Really though its a question of what's worse? Its obvious that without reversing much of the business harming regs and taxes, we will be far worse off.

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18 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Really though its a question of what's worse? Its obvious that without reversing much of the business harming regs and taxes, we will be far worse off.

I cant get onboard with the deregulation thing. While I agree that there needs to be as minimal regulations as possible I dont believe we have found the right folks to strike that balance yet. 

 

 

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When the top dogs takes the questionable high ground, who's to say where that leaves the lower percentage contributors ?
 

Quote

 

~

Apple has an obligation to help solve America's problems - CNN

www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/opinion/prestowitz-apple-jobs/index.html
Apr 3, 2012 - Apple says the company has no obligation to help solve America's ... problems by moving some of those jobs back to the United States.
 
~

Jan 25, 2012 - Comments Prestowitz: “Apple's products still have a large U.S. ... the guy who says Apple has no obligation to help Uncle Sam does strongly ...

~

For Apple, a Search for a Moral High Ground in a Heated Debate - The ...

Feb 23, 2016 - Apple has said it will not comply with a federal court order to unlock the ... their United States citizenship to move to a country with a lower tax rate. ... point is there a moral obligation for a company to help law enforcement, ...

~

If, despite our request that you not send us your ideas, you still submit them, ... (3) there is no obligation for Apple to review the submission; and (4) there is no ...

~

 

 

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I like lower taxes for two reasons;

- when you lower certain tax rates, the overall revenue to the Govt actually goes up. Call is psychology, but people will do more with their money when they think they are getting more out of it.

- given the above, higher tax rates appear to be a form of punishment being inflicted on the 'haves' to pacify the 'have nots'. 

 

Just my 2 thoughts

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It's all very simple....don't over complicate it folk's

If you earn alot of money...you also pay alot of taxes...and those taxes are used to fund the Welfare and other programs for the people who do not earn alot of money.

So....as would be expected...if you pay more in taxes...your tax cut would be greater just by simply doing the math.

But...what we have here in the US...is the poor crying they want to be rich and cry they should get the money from the rich...you see...one day if they happen to turn things around and make MORE money...they will cry they are being taxed too much and don't want to give that money away....vicious circle.

Ths problem with the lower income people is that they ASSUME that those who are rich were just born that way...and they don't deserve it. Well...yes...there are some of those rich people...but most are NOT. They simply worked hard for it and or happen to get a lucky break...or maybe have a special talent..??? Lot's of reasons.

And...some rich people end up poor again...so basically what I'm saying is...STOP CRYING..!!!!! It all boils down to simple jealousy and wanting what the other guy has. There is and always will be those who have...and those who have not..!!! How about you whiny babies just get off your couch and do something about it. That's the beauty of this country. You CAN get rich...and start from nothing.

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8 hours ago, truthseeker68 said:

It's all very simple....don't over complicate it folk's

If you earn alot of money...you also pay alot of taxes...and those taxes are used to fund the Welfare and other programs for the people who do not earn alot of money.

So....as would be expected...if you pay more in taxes...your tax cut would be greater just by simply doing the math.

But...what we have here in the US...is the poor crying they want to be rich and cry they should get the money from the rich...you see...one day if they happen to turn things around and make MORE money...they will cry they are being taxed too much and don't want to give that money away....vicious circle.

Ths problem with the lower income people is that they ASSUME that those who are rich were just born that way...and they don't deserve it. Well...yes...there are some of those rich people...but most are NOT. They simply worked hard for it and or happen to get a lucky break...or maybe have a special talent..??? Lot's of reasons.

And...some rich people end up poor again...so basically what I'm saying is...STOP CRYING..!!!!! It all boils down to simple jealousy and wanting what the other guy has. There is and always will be those who have...and those who have not..!!! How about you whiny babies just get off your couch and do something about it. That's the beauty of this country. You CAN get rich...and start from nothing.

That's some great hyperbole you're spouting off but the problem is a little deeper for our nation than just "lazy cry babies" vs "hard working people" 

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens 

 

 

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On 9/15/2017 at 1:03 AM, Farmer77 said:

That's some great hyperbole you're spouting off but the problem is a little deeper for our nation than just "lazy cry babies" vs "hard working people" 

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens 

 

 

You used to be against Youtube videos which are very informative... what changed?

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On 9/13/2017 at 7:07 AM, Lilly said:

Here's something to mull over a little bit: If you tax business at sky high levels, place all sorts of constraints upon business, make it so that small business can barely stay above water....what do you think happens? Do you think larger businesses will stay in your country, or perhaps they will just out source to other nations, or leave altogether? Do you think these businesses will build factories in your nation, or hire people from your nation? Do you think your economy will grow and prosper? Do you think your people will have plenty of good jobs, 401K's that grow, can add to the economy verses just going on welfare? Will your nation thrive as the tax rate climbs and the only thing that essentially grows is the government?

Take a look at this: https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2016/

Is it any wonder business is out sourcing or just simply leaving the United States.

I hope you'll excuse my ignorance of this. Now, in one sense, I can see your point and feel the same way. I wonder though, in the same thinking of how individuals are being taxed as to what they earn and have, shouldn't the same thing occur within the varying sizes of businesses? 

I then decided to some quick researching and found this site.  I am not sure if you're talking about flat tax rate for all businesses or not. In that, if this is the case, I would agree with you on the fate of small businesses. Though, considering businesses in the varying United States, there are also the state taxes, property taxes, and taxes depending on the size of the business. I also thought that would be taken into account. Where property tax (and rent more likely) is considered, that can chase out the small businesses more, (I have seen this on countless times.) 

If this isn't done, then taxing on business size and income, I would think be considered. (Or, am I'm off on that?) 

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Posted (edited)

Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Though, considering businesses in the varying United States, there are also the state taxes, property taxes, and taxes depending on the size of the business. I also thought that would be taken into account. Where property tax (and rent more likely) is considered, that can chase out the small businesses more, (I have seen this on countless times.) 

 

there is more,  there  are ss taxes, unemployment taxes,  requirement for medical coverage,  medicare taxes, that is why it is extremely common in nyc for companies to fire people after 4-5 months, before company has to provide medical coverage, and pay unemployment taxes. and hiring new people to be fired 4-5 month later.  when Obama care kicked in it became even more commonplace, and it really hurts people, cuz they can not even get unemployment, since they did not work long enough, employers do what they can to minimize taxes, including turning permanent positions into temp.

Edited by aztek
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Heck my employer pays more per hour for my health insurance than many countries pay per day as wages. 

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3 hours ago, aztek said:
4 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Though, considering businesses in the varying United States, there are also the state taxes, property taxes, and taxes depending on the size of the business. I also thought that would be taken into account. Where property tax (and rent more likely) is considered, that can chase out the small businesses more, (I have seen this on countless times.) 

 

there is more,  there  are ss taxes, unemployment taxes,  requirement for medical coverage,  medicare taxes, that is why it is extremely common in nyc for companies to fire people after 4-5 months, before company has to provide medical coverage, and pay unemployment taxes. and hiring new people to be fired 4-5 month later.  when Obama care kicked in it became even more commonplace, and it really hurts people, cuz they can not even get unemployment, since they did not work long enough, employers do what they can to minimize taxes, including turning permanent positions into temp.

Yeah, I knew there was more, I was forgetting or realized there was. And it doesn't surprise me, some companies do what they do, that you mentioned. When I first graduated college, and went into a particular retail company as a new low level asst. manager, along with other new out of college managers, I then noticed a lot of long termed managers were being laid off. :o  :no:  I knew, that it was because they rather put most of the work on the new managers, who were of course being paid less, with less benefits. A lot of new managers, who were told and were on also a training program, never really got to finish that training, because all of a sudden we were thrust into the middle of responsibilities that old time managers were use to. It really disgusted me. 

So, I have a really cynical outlook of how certain companies do this, no matter what they are trying to skimp or save on, and tax situations. (I still can hope for the best, this gets changed? Right?)

 

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Posted (edited)

idk,  if they are taxed more, medical coverage costs more, they will only do more of it., and given the reasons i can't really blame them, its either that or they close down and there would be no jobs, even temp.  they do it to survive, not to  increase profits.

Edited by aztek
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In a sense, I can understand why companies feel they must do this. I just wish, they also consider their employees as one of their priceless assets and invest in them as well. 

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Posted (edited)

there are very few workers who deserve to be invested into, and deserve to be considered priceless assets. i have experience with that, i do that at work. we have problem with jobs, that everyone knows, but we have even bigger problem, that few know about, problem with people who can do the job, there are very few who, will be responsible, trustworthy, and with positive outlook\attitude. young kids are not raised with that quality, sure there are exceptions, ask any business owner, i'm sure their experience mirrors mine.

the biggest problems are young generation, in their 20s, they start effing up at the interviews, come late, stoned, lie. we do our own background check, so we know few things before we even start talking.  then if they do not screw up at first, they care little about quality of their work. they bring their problems to work, create toxic environment,  can't depend on them.....  we have lost generation. you are a lot likely to find such qualities in a  person who was not born and raised in usa.

a stick always has 2 ends

 

 

 

 

Edited by aztek

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, aztek said:

there are very few workers who deserve to be invested into, and deserve to be considered priceless assets. i have experience with that, i do that at work. we have problem with jobs, that everyone knows, but we have even bigger problem, that few know about, problem with people who can do the job, there are very few who, will be responsible, trustworthy, and with positive outlook\attitude. young kids are not raised with that quality, sure there are exceptions, ask any business owner, i'm sure their experience mirrors mine.

the biggest problems are young generation, in their 20s, they start effing up at the interviews, come late, stoned, lie. we do our own background check, so we know few things before we even start talking.  then if they do not screw up at first, they care little about quality of their work. they bring their problems to work, create toxic environment,  can't depend on them.....  we have lost generation. you are a lot likely to find such qualities in a  person who was not born and raised in usa.

a stick always has 2 ends

Can we say that with all of them? It's not that I haven't heard this. I have a friend, a business owner who says the same thing, that there are not enough qualified workers who really want to work. I don't think it's just regulated to just one generation. My hubby and raised two children, where one is doing very well at their job, and taking more classes to advance in it. Our other is in college doing pretty good in their major, and working pretty hard at the jobs that has matched the goal and degree field. Their friends, most of them, have also gone down the same path. This may come out of a biased mother's mouth, (ok, at the moment, fingers) but I feel we raised them with that sense of responsibility. 

Where I work, I see lots of the millennials who come in to shop, who have those characteristics you speak of, and it does make me wonder at their behavior. Though, I work with plenty of millennials who have the self-responsibility and the work ethic. I also have worked with those from older generations, who don't have that. I think it depends on how they are raised. Kind of like you said, with their parents, but I have met parents who know how to raise responsible adults, and those who I wonder why they had kids in the first place. 

It's not that I don't believe you, I do, it's just where I am, I don't see as much. 

Though, if I reflect on you term there, the stick with both ends, then I think you have a point. It's more than just investing in the employee, but making sure the employee gets the education and commonsense to become worthy to be invested in. And yes, I think it also goes back to what I believe is a lack of good education in most places. 

But, I know, that's a different topic all together. *shrugs*

 

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright

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Nobody ever told me showing up drunk to a job interview was frowned upon. Hmm, might explain allot though

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