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Hamas says it is ready to hold elections

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The Palestinian militant group Hamas says it is ready to dissolve the committee that rules Gaza and hold a general election for the first time since 2006.

It also said it was aiming for more talks with rivals Fatah as it aims to end a decade-long split.

Representatives of both groups have been meeting senior Egyptian officials in Cairo.

Fatah welcomed the statement and thanked Egypt for its efforts.

Azzam al-Ahmad, head of the Fatah delegation to Egypt, said: "This step strengthens the unity of the Palestinian political echelon and ends the abysmal division that resulted in the suffering of our people."

Fatah's deputy leader Mahmoud al-Aloul gave a tentative welcome to the news and called for other issues to be resolved, including control of border crossings.

After deadly clashes in 2007, Fatah was driven out of the Gaza Strip.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41297016

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Sadly, I think this article is mistaken. HAMAS has NOT stated that it will hold a general election. It has merely stated that it will consider negotiations to form a unity government with FATAH, and hence become a part of the Palestinian Authority. 

The PA has cancelled every general and presidential election since 2006, as have HAMAS. There is no particular reason to believe that they plan to hold one any time soon. 

Sorry, but this is just posturing for headlines. 

Lets recall that in the 2006 elections, HAMAS won, but political pressure from the western world led to the PLO (through FATAH) denying HAMAS from taking up its seats in parliament, in order to ensure that Western aid (without which there is no Palestinian Authority) would keep flowing. If there WAS a free election in the "Palestine Authority" (including Gaza), then it seems reasonable to expect that - once more - HAMAS would win the majority. And... presumably... the West would refuse to continue aid, as HAMAS is (rightly) regarded as a racist and terrorist organisation. 

So where does THAT leave us ? Well, no elections, for starters. :) 

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Hamas is a majority Iranian funded entity these days.  Since the IRGC is setting up shop (temporarily) in the area of the Golan, it serves their interests to have a show of peacemaking just now.  They understand that they will be attacked sooner or later for staging forces so close to Israel's border and such "peaceful" moves will bring PR benefits globally after they are destroyed from the Golan.  The game goes on...

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I just hope that this new attempt for reconciliation wont end up with IDF attacking Gaza to prevent Palestinian unity jet again, as seen in last Gaza war ( or better said, in last massacre ). Hamas officials are expecting moves from Israel since last two weeks and they usually are quite correct in their predictions.

Minor incidents like this were already prelude to new conflicts which include Israel and its neighbours. We shall see but many things are in play right now...

With Syrian war going in favor of Assad ( and Israel clearly showing frustration, IDF attack on Syria this is just one of many attacks ) which surely doesn't go in favor of Israel we can expect Israel to show some 'detterence quality' to it's neighbours but will it be Lebanon, Gaza or Syria, hm, Gaza feels easiest target for this purpose and with called elections, Israel can get two birds with one shot.

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On 9/17/2017 at 6:02 PM, RoofGardener said:

Sadly, I think this article is mistaken. HAMAS has NOT stated that it will hold a general election. It has merely stated that it will consider negotiations to form a unity government with FATAH, and hence become a part of the Palestinian Authority. 

The PA has cancelled every general and presidential election since 2006, as have HAMAS. There is no particular reason to believe that they plan to hold one any time soon. 

Sorry, but this is just posturing for headlines. 

Lets recall that in the 2006 elections, HAMAS won, but political pressure from the western world led to the PLO (through FATAH) denying HAMAS from taking up its seats in parliament, in order to ensure that Western aid (without which there is no Palestinian Authority) would keep flowing. If there WAS a free election in the "Palestine Authority" (including Gaza), then it seems reasonable to expect that - once more - HAMAS would win the majority. And... presumably... the West would refuse to continue aid, as HAMAS is (rightly) regarded as a racist and terrorist organisation. 

So where does THAT leave us ? Well, no elections, for starters. :) 

Hamas won elections in 2006 and then, because of international pressure ( hmm who did lobby there the most i wonder? ) and even military operations, every move towards unity was stopped. If it was merely internal thing of Fatah and Hamas to solve, it would be finished long ago. Hamas new chapter is highly recomended read and understanding it will help one understand Hamas's legitimate position both as military and political entity and their goals, especially towards Israel and internal unity of Palestinians which is subject here.

Even in earlier chapter things are mostly clear and cover general picture from early 1900s.

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7 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Even in earlier chapter things are mostly clear and cover general picture from early 1900s

Hamas' intentions have always been quite clear.  I respect their leadership for being honest, on the whole, about their intentions toward the State of Israel.  So long as there is no return to rocket fire or incursions against Israeli territory, Hamas has nothing to worry about from the IDF.  Now that new funding is streaming in from Iran however, the leaders of Hamas may not be the ones to decide when and where they will act.  My guess is that the quiet will be maintained until Iran has positioned sufficient forces in the region to make a real show of their strength.  With rockets, mortars, and missiles flying in from Lebanon, Syria, and Gaza, what would you expect the IDF to do?  Is there ANY action Hamas, Hizballah or the IRGC could take against Israel that you would feel Israel justified in countering with force?

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, and then said:

So long as there is no return to rocket fire or incursions against Israeli territory, Hamas has nothing to worry about from the IDF.

This is most problematic point bmo. As in recent event, article on Jerusalem post ( there were cassaulties too but can't find good source to have good picture about it ) show recent attack by Israel, as stated before - IDF blames Hamas for every rocket launched from Gaza even tho they too ( IDF ) have confirmed existence of other groups. There was this a bit larger attack by IDF as retalliation in February but those attacks are not rare at all. It takes only little to escalate things there and Israel surely is doing their part of the job even tho they too have stated that, especially in 2017, rocket attacks have been on their lowest in last years.

And yeah, Hamas is working on Iran relation indeed, relation which was very much in danger in last few years and they need that relation back.

As for rest of region, you know about Israel new large military excercize which simulates war on Lebanon, in time when IDF use Lebanon ( lack of propper air defense ) to strike targets in Syria ( on many occassions, IDF attacked Hezbollah in Syria - and Hezbollah is one of best fighters against isis and al nusra in the region ). We can not neglect Israel officials frustration with changes on the field in region and interesting time is ahead, hopefully relations will be relaxed and result in safer area but that is too romantic to expect.

17 hours ago, and then said:

With rockets, mortars, and missiles flying in from Lebanon, Syria, and Gaza, what would you expect the IDF to do?  Is there ANY action Hamas, Hizballah or the IRGC could take against Israel that you would feel Israel justified in countering with force?

I am too lazy to go over statistics and history of those attacks and it would tkae a bit of time, we have been talking about it already years before.. For Lebanon, one thing is certain in that Hezbollah do action against Israel civilians and do it unprovoked then Israel has somewhat justification for attacking Hezbollah but Hezbollah was only attacking Israel when Israel was occupying Lebanon so it's hard to expect, especially if we follow what Nasrallah is saying and that guy does what he say.

As for Hamas, if Hamas attacks then Israel has right to defend and do some action but those actions can't include collective punishing of Gaza population.

Important notice for Iran, they respect Syrian soveregnity and act as Syrian allies there, not as colonial force.

 

[edit] and yeah, to add, please read both chapters and take their position in perspective, at least partly

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot

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The IAF attacked the Hezzies only when they attempted to send convoys of advanced missiles into Lebanon.  That is clear because every time they have struck the convoys there have been massive secondary explosions from the missiles themselves.  As to attacking into Gaza, Hamas controls Gaza and it is justified to hold them responsible for what goes on in their territory.  If Israel allowed the excuse that Hamas didn't fire into Israel, it was only this or that "rogue" element, Hamas could continually assert that they've done no wrong while attempting to kill Israelis, indiscriminately.  

Hizballah have built an arsenal in southern Lebanon of tens of thousands of missiles - many with much more accurate guidance systems.  If/when the day comes that they unleash those weapons, Israel has long warned that they will END Hizballah for all time, no matter what it takes, and the people of Lebanon need to evacuate or their blood will be on them for helping Hizballah.  

We both know how the story ends.  Israel is blamed for the flare-up of conflict, Israel is accused of war crimes, Israel is shown to be indiscriminately killing defenseless Lebanese, Israel is GUILTY, period.  Alan Dershowitz refers to it as the "dead baby strategy".  The problem with that strategy this time around is that Israel will have imagery of missiles falling indiscriminately among their own cities and they'll have just as compelling pictures of their own dead.  Most of the world won't care and that will cause Israel to follow through and do whatever it takes to end the threat from Iran's proxies, especially in Syria and Lebanon.  It is coming, just a matter of time.

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17 hours ago, and then said:

The IAF attacked the Hezzies only when they attempted to send convoys of advanced missiles into Lebanon.

Usual excuse. Tell me of one event when Hezbollah attacked first? It was always retalliation for Israel's attacks ( see Nasrallah speech just before 2006 war's end ).

17 hours ago, and then said:

As to attacking into Gaza, Hamas controls Gaza and it is justified to hold them responsible for what goes on in their territory.  If Israel allowed the excuse that Hamas didn't fire into Israel, it was only this or that "rogue" element, Hamas could continually assert that they've done no wrong while attempting to kill Israelis, indiscriminately.  

How many Israelis died as a result of Hamas rocket attacks? I do not trya to neglect any cassaultie, one civilian life lost is too much but we have to be realistic here and as long as siege is not lifted Hamas has legitimate right to use force as means of ressisting. Gaza is free of occupation but having blockade such as one now in power is contrary to every civilized value and not to mention that majority of Gazan people are under age of 16 and with such high population density in Gaza ( among highest in the world in Gaza city area, if not generally ) any attack on that area means that children will die.

Check reports of Human Watch, AI, etc and they all say that in relatively short time Gaza will be in total fal in humanitarian terms, medical, water, electricity it is all almost gone and any conflict would mean end to Gaza and Hamas so they have no card to play if Israel starts new operation against Gaza.

17 hours ago, and then said:

Hizballah have built an arsenal in southern Lebanon of tens of thousands of missiles - many with much more accurate guidance systems.  If/when the day comes that they unleash those weapons, Israel has long warned that they will END Hizballah for all time, no matter what it takes, and the people of Lebanon need to evacuate or their blood will be on them for helping Hizballah.  

First things first, Israel has made Hezbollah after IDF's show off in Lebanon. I could start to name massacres and UN resolutions since early 1980s. Keep in mind that many Lebanesse people support and praise Hezbollah and Hezbollah is large part of government so when you talk about Hezbollah and people of Lebanon as two different entities, think twice. It is 2017 now and Hezbollah has reached some deterrence capacity which is a good thing but also, Israel need to show some power to it's neighbours and it is a matter of moment when and whom will they try to attack. History of the region speaks for itself.

 

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, and then said:

We both know how the story ends.  Israel is blamed for the flare-up of conflict, Israel is accused of war crimes, Israel is shown to be indiscriminately killing defenseless Lebanese, Israel is GUILTY, period.  Alan Dershowitz refers to it as the "dead baby strategy".  The problem with that strategy this time around is that Israel will have imagery of missiles falling indiscriminately among their own cities and they'll have just as compelling pictures of their own dead.  Most of the world won't care and that will cause Israel to follow through and do whatever it takes to end the threat from Iran's proxies, especially in Syria and Lebanon.  It is coming, just a matter of time.

Israel share its part of guilt and it is large one.

As long as they occupy others, others will have legitimate cause to ressist even with arms. If we should defame Hezbollah and Hamas than let's rewrite history books and defame French ressistance, Partizans from Jugoslavia... etc.

I've found book by Dershowitz, '' Case for Israel '' and was very thrilled to read it. Did about half of book, essence of it is from older work based on '' land without people for the people without land ''. Now, when i've found book written by Norman Finkelstein and after i have seen debate they had on ' Democracy Now ', it was clear who Dershowitz is. He is an insult to scholars, to academic life in general. His sources and the way he manipulates and takes things out of context, even his denial of mainstream human rights organizations, that was too much for me.

But when i have seen what Dershowitz did after to Mr. Finkelstein... Whole defamation... Man, Dershowitz is one big black page in Harward university history and most important, lawyer, he might be great but that's it.

Here you have debate, books are also available ( even tho Dershowitz did his best to stop publishing of Normans book which totally destroy every point made by Mr. Dershowitz ) and see for yourself. 

I am not sure why you mention Dershowitz really, i have to thank his bad work, it was what got me into researching Israel and Palestine conflict and history.

[edit] to add, speaking of Iran's proxies while Mr. Bibi supports and praises Kurds for making their own state out of other sovereign states territory ( mainly Syria and Iraq ) surely goes in favor to Iran regardless of their intentions in the region. It seems that Israel is becoming its worst enemy.

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot
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5 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

many Lebanesse people support and praise Hezbollah and Hezbollah is large part of government so when you talk about Hezbollah and people of Lebanon as two different entities, think twice.

Then there will be less sympathy when the civilians are killed in large numbers.  We can go around and around on this but it is pointless because you and those like you would shed not one tear if Israel was destroyed completely and Jews removed from the M.E.  Don't waste energy trying to deny it.  Here's the thing, it just isn't ever going to happen.  Not EVER.  War WILL come and many, many Israelis will die but far MORE Muslims will perish and at the end of the bloodletting, Israel will still stand.  When Hizballah attacks, southern Lebanon will become a moonscape.  If IRGC forces in Syria lead an assault from that region, Damascus is apt to be reduced to ashes as well.  It is INSANE for these people to think that they can defeat a military as powerful as the IDF, yet they keep trying.  So be it.  Hate eventually destroys itself.

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18 hours ago, and then said:

Then there will be less sympathy when the civilians are killed in large numbers.  We can go around and around on this but it is pointless because you and those like you would shed not one tear if Israel was destroyed completely and Jews removed from the M.E.  Don't waste energy trying to deny it.  Here's the thing, it just isn't ever going to happen.  Not EVER.  War WILL come and many, many Israelis will die but far MORE Muslims will perish and at the end of the bloodletting, Israel will still stand.  When Hizballah attacks, southern Lebanon will become a moonscape.  If IRGC forces in Syria lead an assault from that region, Damascus is apt to be reduced to ashes as well.  It is INSANE for these people to think that they can defeat a military as powerful as the IDF, yet they keep trying.  So be it.  Hate eventually destroys itself.

My friend i had almost the same view of the issue as you, when it comes to civilian lives and security in general but after a while i have realized that Israel doesn't want two state solution it was never their goal and everything points out on it. I've hoped, my hearth was so open for both Israel and Palestine, to finally settle the issue and start to live because, in many aspects, this status quo, which surely goes in favor of Israel politics and legalization of illegal settlements - those factors, with every new day are moving Palestinians further from their own state.

As i said, Bibi was quick to praise Kurds for trying to steal Iraq and Syrian lands but when it come to Palestinians, where is his sympathy? Double standards make me sick, and Israel is made on it.

Hezbollah won't attack, they never had and always it was in retalliation. When Israel kills hundreds of children you apologise for them saying '' children were human shields for Hamas '' or that '' Israel has to respond to attacks '' but when IDF destroy whole blocks in Beirut and then Hezbollah launches missiles on Haifa then it is war crime and even UN ( USA ) only then starts to send resolutions as if they waited until either Israel kills too many civilians or until Hezbollah mange to get some deterrence cappability.

IDF was always best equipped and supported by USA, their power was especially seen in that enemy could not attack civilian targets as IDF did all the time even their forefathers did it ( Irgun for example, they have made terrorism ). But now, Hezbollah and hopefully Syria in short time they both have missiles which can make Israel burn, hence their ( Israeli ) constant struggle to make USA fight jet another war for them. Whole mess on ME is ( currently ) made to try and isolate Iran so that they can end them up last ( see gen. Wesley Clark on war on terror ) but such tactic hit back and right now, Israel and it's officials, being mad dogs as they are, are very unpredictable so we can expect a lot of problems.

Take for example 1973 or '' October war ''. See who was on Israeli side and who was on Syrian and Egypt side and how it was finished. So many nations were helping Arabs, especially because a lot of land was occupied and defenders do not occupy, i've been in war personally, felt all horrors on me and i can say what is defensive war because my city was over 4 years under siege. That is when you are surrounded by stronger and larger force, you can not take their land lol it's logical.

 The whole notion of '' Israel being endangered by 'mad Arabs' '' is wrong, even in 1967, Israel did not defend at all nor were they at risk.

Anyways, we both can hope for best trust me i pray for Jewish people even more than for Palestinians because, it seems, Jewish people can become biggest victims of Israels politics.

Best said in '' Palestine : The truth '' by JMN Jeffries

''   "Any first-class political question grows intricate if it is left without an effort to solve it for a number of years. It grows particularly intricate when one of the parties to the affair finds refuge in this passage of the years, taking advantage of all the secondary issues, naturally or artificially produced during them, to cloud the main issue that was clear at the beginning. "There becomes so much to speak about, so much to controvert and so many falsely raised issues to pursue that a vast deal of time and of space presently would be needed by the other party to accomplish this." ''

In short, to think of this conflict we have to take into account late 1800s too, not just recent events. Highly recomended book to read but i would first read '' From Time Immemorial '' by Joan Peters so one can better understand both points of view.

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Sorry for longer post but i had to make some points clear. In short, as said, i hoped and hoped for better for Palestinians but times are becoming hard so we now must pray for civilians on both sides. 

If Palestinians manage to find political unity than we can say that they have legitimate right to deny 1967 borders and focus their fight on 'red line' and 1947 occupation UN borders which are only borders reckognized by any legal authority. Files available here : http://www.archives.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/BD240CA5-379D-4FAE-81A8-069902AD1E7F/0/Truman3.pdf 

That is possibility and Israel surely has this in mind, hence the same rethoric and calls for wars so that political issue becomes more intricate - as said in that quote above. In short, if they do not start to reckognize Palestinian state then we will have interesting decades in front of us.

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On 9/21/2017 at 6:13 AM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Tell me of one event when Hezbollah attacked first? It was always retalliation for Israel's attacks ( see Nasrallah speech just before 2006 war's end ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War

The first sentence of the second paragraph.  This is irrefutable unless you are going to say that ANY attack is ALWAYS an answer to the Israeli "occupation".  If that is your premise then anyone in the region can attack Israel at any time, without making ANY justification and that would be okay with you.  If that is, indeed your stance then you cannot be taken seriously as a dispassionate, rational commentator on the conflict.  

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9 hours ago, and then said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War

The first sentence of the second paragraph.  This is irrefutable unless you are going to say that ANY attack is ALWAYS an answer to the Israeli "occupation".  If that is your premise then anyone in the region can attack Israel at any time, without making ANY justification and that would be okay with you.

First of all, if we will be a bit realistic and rational then we wont possibly believe that 2000 war ended in May of that year. As Israel officials have stated many times '' We will take out Hezbollah '' and, especially in June 2006, they got pretext for long planned operations against Hezbollah. After 2000 Israel had to show power to it's neighbours ( just yesterday IDF planes have taken out Hezbollah munitions depot near Damascus - missile defense on Syrian ground has taken one missile down and they havent used S-400 but older S-200 and/or S-300 hoping for larger reply, all that in mid of first USA military base which opens in Israel just yesterday - possible reply from Hezbollah could mean new pretext? Of course it would ).

So, USA and Israel never tollerated any ressistance to Israel, hence the 2006 war which was merely continuation of 2000 events. We can pretend about it and talk about reasons but if we follow common sense and all those statements from both sides ( especially IDF officials and Nasrallah ) things are very clear.

It is only that USA was occupied with Iraq, Syria, Lybia... That Hezbollah was left alone for some time, actually for the end game after their supporters in Syria ( important weapons supply line ) are taken down, i have to mention Gen. Clark and now infamous '' 7 countries in 5 years ''.

Again, in 2006 many Israeli civilians felt the same fear and terror which people of Beirut have felt and USA and Israel are smart enough to take out missiles first and only then strike Lebanon again. 

10 hours ago, and then said:

If that is, indeed your stance then you cannot be taken seriously as a dispassionate, rational commentator on the conflict.  

Let's say that i do justify every action against Israel ( which i do not ) but you do the same for every Israel action, for example,  when it was about hundreds of dead children in Gaza all that pro-Israel people had to say was that '' their fathers used them as human shields ''.

If we are to determine which one of us has less empathy and human kindness we can try to debate it but it is surely not relevant. Especially because, in the essence, we both are the same but are shaped differently because of many factors. Thing is, Machiavelism never died it just got rebranded but none should blame the other for things which both do.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

If that is your premise then anyone in the region can attack Israel at any time, without making ANY justification and that would be okay with you.

I see I was correct.  

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23 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

If we are to determine which one of us has less empathy and human kindness we can try to debate it but it is surely not relevant.

I see i was correct. 

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Palestinian factions Hamas and Fatah sign deal in Cairo

Quote

Hamas and Fatah have signed a reconciliation deal in Cairo, ending a decade-long rift between the two Palestinian factions.

The deal is believed to cover security, administrative and border crossing arrangements in the Gaza Strip.

Egypt has been brokering the reconciliation talks in Cairo.

Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have been ruled separately since deadly clashes between the two groups broke out in 2007.

Hamas won parliamentary elections in the occupied territories the previous year, and reinforced its power in Gaza after ousting Fatah from the enclave.

While the full details of Thursday's agreement have yet to be announced, negotiators from both groups said that the security changes include the handing over of control of the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt to a unity government.

Hamas also agreed to hand all administrative responsibilities in the Gaza Strip to the Fatah-backed government by December, according to an official statement released by Egypt.

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"Hamas as a whole, or in some cases its military wing, is designated a terrorist group by Israel, the US, EU, UK and other powers."

It doesn't seem to be a positive development but who knows?  I think Trump may become obsessed with making the deal that no one else could make.  The key factor will be a timed implementation.  Seven years.  

 

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3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

And USA moves out from UNESCO, opens first military base in Israel, in mid of moves towards that deal. Trump say that he will give chance to solution so he is waiting with his campaing promise of moving US embassy to Jerusalem ( which is, by UN resolution, made as international city of some sort, not Israel's by any standard ).

 Next two days, if not only one, will show us a lot about near future. Fingers crossed, Palestinians have many legal options on their disposal, hopefully the rhetoric will change based on those options.

1 hour ago, and then said:

"Hamas as a whole, or in some cases its military wing, is designated a terrorist group by Israel, the US, EU, UK and other powers."

Even tho, by definition and international law, they ( Hamas ) have right to exist and act precisely as they do and did so far. By labeling Hamas as terrorist organization all those who supported that crazy idea are responsible for first in history move towards labeling whole population as terrorists, which is forbidden by international law.

Hamas won democratically, as every mainstream organization has said. Hezbollah too, and Hezbollah is still marked as terrorist organization by Israel and the US.

Keep in mind, Ariel Sharon's troops did enough crimes in Lebanon for them to be labeled as terrorists too but he never faced any measure, other than usual '' we will investigate into it ''. Actually, he was rewarded for it.

So, that is how much 'weight' is actually in those claims by Israel and USA.

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