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Still Waters

Scotland's oldest snow patch expected to melt

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Scotland's longest lasting patch of snow could melt away by the weekend.

Iain Cameron, who seeks out and records snow that survives on Scotland's highest mountains, believes the patch known as the Sphinx has days left.

Scientists say the patch at Garbh Choire Mor on Braeriach in the Cairngorms has disappeared only six times previously in the last 300 years.

According to records, the snow previously melted in 1933, 1953, 1959, 1996, 2003 and 2006.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-41305464

Quote

The ground beneath the Sphinx snow patch has probably seen daylight for less than a few months since the start of the little ice age in the 16th-19th centuries.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/18/scotlands-sphinx-snow-patch-is-in-its-throes-in-pictures

 

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In the last 40yrs where I live Ive watched two ski hills permenately shuttdown due to lack of snow. The 3rd one and highest is starting to experience same thing.Also glaciers are retracting at alarming rates on the coast here. Things are warming up!

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1 hour ago, khol said:

In the last 40yrs where I live Ive watched two ski hills permenately shuttdown due to lack of snow. The 3rd one and highest is starting to experience same thing.Also glaciers are retracting at alarming rates on the coast here. Things are warming up!

Yes, things are warming up.  Even where I live on the Alabama coast of the Gulf of Mexico, winters have been becoming gradually warmer - NOT a pleasant turn, if you hate the heat and humidity as much as I.  That said, I believe that spending tens or hundreds of billions of dollars without any accountability from any world body is the wrong approach.  Creating an atmosphere where industries are literally crippled by regulations that even AGW adherents admit will make only minuscule temperature changes over decades, is not a feasible means of solving the problem.  Also, IIRC, ice cores have shown previous periods of the same kind of warming trends long before human use of hydrocarbons was an issue.

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On snow patch topic I can't decide whether I am okay with it since it shows global warming...

Since the romantic side of me goes NOoooooooooo!

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13 hours ago, and then said:

Yes, things are warming up.  Even where I live on the Alabama coast of the Gulf of Mexico, winters have been becoming gradually warmer - NOT a pleasant turn, if you hate the heat and humidity as much as I.  That said, I believe that spending tens or hundreds of billions of dollars without any accountability from any world body is the wrong approach.  Creating an atmosphere where industries are literally crippled by regulations that even AGW adherents admit will make only minuscule temperature changes over decades, is not a feasible means of solving the problem.  Also, IIRC, ice cores have shown previous periods of the same kind of warming trends long before human use of hydrocarbons was an issue.

Polluting the air is like littering. Discarding waste into the enviorment with no regard for anything else.We humans are messy creatures. It not only affects our atmosphere it has negative impacts on our health. Leaning towards cleaner energy is not such a bad thing. Global warming aside its just the right thing to do and we should strive to move towards that

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Posted (edited)

Quote

According to records, the snow previously melted in 1933, 1953, 1959, 1996, 2003 and 2006.

Was global warming responbsible for it melting in 1933 (and likely before then) or was it just entirely natural?

And if it WAS entirely natural melting back in 1933 (and likely before then) then where's the proof that it's NOT entirely natural today (hint: there isn't any)?

The mind beggars belief that there are some numpties out there who see a bit of snow melting and then see it as evidence of non-existent global warming.

Edited by Black Monk

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Posted (edited)

39 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Is it one if those made up graphs, like the one the University of East  Anglia invented?

In the wake of the recent news that global warming has been greatly exaggerated I can't believe there are still people out there who believe this nonsense.

"Hey, guys! Some snow has melted in the Cairngorms! I know it happened way back in 1933 and possibly 500 years before that but this is definite proof of global warming! What else can it be?"

Edited by Black Monk

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Black Monk said:

Is it one if those made up graphs, like the one the University of East  Anglia invented?

'Climategate', the University of East Anglia's alleged conspiracy to dishonestly manipulate data, has been thoroughly debunked by the international scientific community. Everything discussed by East Anglia's academics in their hacked emails was, and had been, also openly debated in peer-reviewed journals. 

The controversy was initiated and promoted by people whose agenda was to discredit the science (they are still around) but whose understanding of it is sadly deficient. The amusing part is that they always fail to appreciate just how deficient they are.

The graph I referenced was generated by NASA.

You can take a horse to water ................... or even take water to a horse ....... but you can't make him drink!

 

Edited by Ozymandias

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

'Climategate', the University of East Anglia's alleged conspiracy to dishonestly manipulate data, has been thoroughly debunked by the international scientific community. Everything discussed by East Anglia's academics in their hacked emails was, and had been, also openly debated in peer-reviewed journals. 

The controversy was initiated and promoted by people whose agenda was to discredit the science (they are still around) but whose understanding of it is sadly deficient. The amusing part is that they always fail to appreciate just how deficient they are.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/11367272/Climategate-the-sequel-How-we-are-STILL-being-tricked-with-flawed-data-on-global-warming.html

Quote

The graph I referenced was generated by NASA.

Oh, well, that's alright then. It must be accurate.

Edited by Black Monk

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Talk about a load of b*llocks ......

Do any of you lot even know where the Spinix is, let alone the conditions necessary for snow survival ? 

The only reason I assume you are not a bunch of tabloid journalists is because some of the words you use are spelt right.

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1 hour ago, Black Monk said:

You quote a nearly 3 year old newspaper article to challenge the international scientific consensus that Climategate was not a conspiracy! 

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Posted (edited)

Well, there's this - it's already a year old, but it's interesting:

Quote

Parallel with NOAA’s National Centers for Environmental Information, meteorologist
Guy Walton has been compiling data on daily records for more than a decade.
In 2009, Walton teamed up with Gerald Meehl and Claudia Tebaldi (National Center
 for Atmospheric Research) and several other colleagues to show that the ratio of
highs to lows has been increasing decade by decade.ut it’s a
phenomenally low number. Since the mid-1920s, when the bulk of U.S. weather stations
had accumulated a meaningful 30-year history, the nation has notched at least 9000 daily
record lows by the end of October in every single year. This year, we’re not even halfway
to that point!

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/scary-warm-welcome-to-the-halloween-heat-wave-of-2016.html

On the other hand, at one time the Romans were growing grapesvines in Great Britain.

Edited by Still Waters
Trimmed for length & source link added

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On 24/09/2017 at 8:07 PM, Ozymandias said:

You quote a nearly 3 year old newspaper article to challenge the international scientific consensus that Climategate was not a conspiracy! 

What "scientific consensus"?

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Climategate was a conspiracy - a conspiracy by "certain persons" (aided and abetted by the likes of Booker, who is to science what Sitchin is to history) - to discredit and undermine the public perception of science in order to allow some poor multi-billionaire Americans to make loadsamoney selling even more coal and oil .....

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Meanwhile, back in 2017.   The last ice in Scotland will have melted by the end of this weekend (if not already).   Confirmation may await an improvement in the weather though.

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1 hour ago, Essan said:

 The last ice in Scotland will have melted by the end of this weekend (if not already).   

All ice, or just the ice on Garbh Choire Mor, which has melted many times in the past?

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1 hour ago, Black Monk said:

All ice, or just the ice on Garbh Choire Mor, which has melted many times in the past?

Pretty sure there is still some ice to be found in freezers across Scotland :D   There is certainly plenty in mine down here in England!

The last natural patch on Aonach Beag has been confirmed as gone.   However, latest reports are that the patch in Garbh Choire Mor has split in 2 ...... so there are still 2 (very small) patches left ......   Stilll expect these to go over the weekend though.    leaving no natural ice anywhere in the British Isles.   That this has happened before is irrelevant - it hasnt happened for some years and is of great interest to those obsessed by such things.

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Of course it is.

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As of yesterday ....

22135475_10155063963911376_8330070602970474234_o.jpg

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It's officially dead, deceased, no more.  Gone the way of the Norwegian blue parrot...... 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-41346118

Although looking at the top picture I'm not sure Iain shouldn't be arrested for aiding and abetting the demise of a lump of ice :D     (seriously, it would have made no difference after the weekend's mild rain)
 

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Meteorological vandalism, if you ask me! And it was only 11 years old.

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On 9/24/2017 at 9:20 PM, Black Monk said:

Was global warming responbsible for it melting in 1933 (and likely before then) or was it just entirely natural?

And if it WAS entirely natural melting back in 1933 (and likely before then) then where's the proof that it's NOT entirely natural today (hint: there isn't any)?

The mind beggars belief that there are some numpties out there who see a bit of snow melting and then see it as evidence of non-existent global warming.

BM, does this mean you'd say And Then is wrong to say " Yes, things are warming up."?

The thing is that a single data point (the existence or otherwise of snow in a single location) is hardly evidence either way for global warming. The evidence comes from thousands of weather stations around the world. Now if the trends of those weather stations average a zero amount of change over an extended amount of time, then sure you can say the Earth isn't heating up. But if there's a noticeable positive trend on average (even if a few are showing a downward movement) then there is the evidence of warming. And that's what scientists are seeing.

Sure, the ice in that location melted in the past. But what was ice doing in other locations around the world at the same time? In other words, what was the trend back then?

If you wish, argue about the cause of the warming. If you wish, argue about what we should do about the warming. But I don't see how you can argue about the existence of the warming.

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