Deaf man shot dead by Oklahoma police

[GlitterRose]

Ugh...just unbelievable. 

I don't know how they're training these people, but something has to change. And it's not like it's just a handful of bad apples. This is systemic. 

[aztek]

these people are  trained to shoot and not worry about consequences 

[Bama13]

1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

Ugh...just unbelievable. 

I don't know how they're training these people, but something has to change. And it's not like it's just a handful of bad apples. This is systemic. 

When you consider that there are 100,000's of LEO's (best number I could find was around 900,000) in the US it is just a handful bad apples.

[aztek]

Just now, Bama13 said:

When you consider that there are 100,000's of LEO's (best number I could find was around 900,000) in the US it is just a handful bad apples.

maybe, however the rest covers up for them, so what exactly makes them good apples. 

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by aztek

[simplybill]

So a criminal father sent his deaf and mentally-disabled son who was holding a metal pipe to confront the police? Father of the Year award for that guy. 

[SHaYap]

Maybe dad was scared witless about getting shot by the policeman ...

~

[Parsec]

This is really sad. 

 

To me it all boils down, as usual, to culture. 

And ignorance. 

It's not even training, but a broader sense of culture.

A training is good for teaching a procedure, but if anything goes outside the procedure, you don't know what to do, how to react to the different situation. 

And in many instances you panic, thus react irrationally. 

What I see in the West is that we are going back to the "beehive" mentality, where a person knows just what is relevant and necessary to perform his/her job. 

"Why learning math if I am going to be a policeman (or insert whatever job)? I don't need it, I will never use it in real life!"

You don't need math in order to calculate how many seconds it will take to the bullet to reach your next victim down the alley. 

You need math because if you exercise and use logic, it can potentially open your mind and allow you to develope a critical thinking. 

You don't need to study literature because "it's nice", but because it can help you seeing things from different points of view, identifying yourself with someone else and potentially developing empathy. 

And so on and so forth.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

2 hours ago, simplybill said:

So a criminal father sent his deaf and mentally-disabled son who was holding a metal pipe to confront the police? Father of the Year award for that guy. 

Wait? Where did you get the idea, that the father sent the son to the police? In the article I read and linked, the father was mentioning saying he son was deaf, after the incident. From what I understand, the son was wanting to explain it to the police. 

2 hours ago, third_eye said:

Maybe dad was scared witless about getting shot by the policeman ...

~

The dad drove off, after hitting something, (not someone). 

7 minutes ago, Parsec said:

You don't need to study literature because "it's nice", but because it can help you seeing things from different points of view, identifying yourself with someone else and potentially developing empathy. 

Thank you for this.  

 

[simplybill]

Seriously, what difference does it make that he was deaf? What if instead of a metal pipe he was holding a kitchen knife or a handgun? Do deaf people lose the ability to harm another person? I've no patience with parents who use their child's disability to promote an anti-authority agenda.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

5 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Seriously, what difference does it make that he was deaf? What if instead of a metal pipe he was holding a kitchen knife or a handgun? Do deaf people lose the ability to harm another person? I've no patience with parents who use their child's disability to promote an anti-authority agenda.

I can understand the pipe in his hands made the police nervous. And that from a certain distance, they cannot tell if it's a weapon or not. (I think I also read that he usually walks around carrying a stick or something, and that's probably way he was holding the pipe, it was the latest thing to hold.) But, I think the police were very hasty to act. 

 

[aztek]

Just now, simplybill said:

Seriously, what difference does it make that he was deaf? What if instead of a metal pipe he was holding a kitchen knife or a handgun? Do deaf people lose the ability to harm another person? I've no patience with parents who use their child's disability to promote an anti-authority agenda.

he was on his own porch who knows what he used the pipe for , we do not know what pipe it was, it could have been pvc pipe or storm drain pipe, and he was fixing doing something with it ON HIS OWN PROPERTY. just because he could not hear and talk does not make him dangerous mental case, plenty of people who can't hear can not talk either, they use sign language. 

[SHaYap]

52 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

The dad drove off, after hitting something, (not someone). 

Like I said, Dad was scared, maybe fearful even ... heck maybe Dad thought he was going to be deported ...

[Parsec]

25 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Seriously, what difference does it make that he was deaf? What if instead of a metal pipe he was holding a kitchen knife or a handgun? Do deaf people lose the ability to harm another person? I've no patience with parents who use their child's disability to promote an anti-authority agenda.

But he was not. 

And that's a big difference. 

[Parsec]

36 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Seriously, what difference does it make that he was deaf? What if instead of a metal pipe he was holding a kitchen knife or a handgun? Do deaf people lose the ability to harm another person? I've no patience with parents who use their child's disability to promote an anti-authority agenda.

No, but apparently they lose their right to be different. 

[simplybill]

The father fled the scene of an accident. He apparently made no effort to render aid to possible victims. He's already established his disregard for human life, and his intention to avoid arrest.

The police arrive at his house and are greeted by a pipe-wielding man who is acting like he's on drugs. The neighbors, according to the article, are 'screaming'. Add in the recent murders of police officers all around the US, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Maybe the investigation will prove me wrong, but for now I'm putting the blame on the father.

[Parsec]

9 minutes ago, simplybill said:

The father fled the scene of an accident. He apparently made no effort to render aid to possible victims. He's already established his disregard for human life, and his intention to avoid arrest.

The police arrive at his house and are greeted by a pipe-wielding man who is acting like he's on drugs. The neighbors, according to the article, are 'screaming'. Add in the recent murders of police officers all around the US, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Maybe the investigation will prove me wrong, but for now I'm putting the blame on the father.

Well, you do know how to spin things, that's for sure! 

 

According to Captain Bo Mathews, the car accident didn't involve people, so all your rant about the father goes puff. 

 

Since the victim has been tasered (and then shot) from a distance of 15 ft, if from there you can't differentiate a pipe from a weapon, I am not sure you are fit to serve. 

Who told you he acted as he was on drugs? Were you there or are you just assuming, interpreting what you've read according to your own beliefs? 

And how exactly does a person under drugs act? And which drugs? Medical or recreational? Legal or illegal? Opioid or alkaloid? 

 

The neighbours weren't screaming, they were shouting. To be more specific, they were shouting that he was deaf and could not understand them. 

 

Care to explain which pattern do you see among these recent police officers murders and how that connects to this case?

 

There was no recipe for disaster. 

Just overzealous,  overreacting and careless police officers. 

 

Your last sentence says it all.

[simplybill]

This quote from the article regarding the accident is a bit ambiguous, but I think it's safe to assume that the driver didn't stay around long enough to check for injuries. At the time of the interview, the police spokesman himself wasn't aware if there had been injuries:

"Mr Sanchez’s father, who was not named, had earlier been involved in a hit-and-run but his car had not struck anyone, Mr Mathews said, adding that he was not aware if there had been any injuries."

The term 'scream' is in the title of the article:

"Deaf man shot dead by Oklahoma police as neighbours scream 'he can't hear you'"

How do people act under the influence of drugs? YouTube should have some interesting videos on that topic. 

Do I 'spin' the story? No, my background adds insight into the media spin.

For the record: I'm leaning toward the idea that it appears the officer who fired his service weapon may have reacted too soon after the taser was deployed. The article doesn't state if the prong placements were effective, or how Mr. Sanchez reacted to the taser being fired. We won't have all the facts until the investigation is complete.

Keep in mind that the article only provides the information that Yahoo News wants you to read.

Edited September 23, 2017 by simplybill

[preacherman76]

A bunch of people witnessed this, and didn't record the incident?

[Parsec]

8 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

A bunch of people witnessed this, and didn't record the incident?

We don't know how long did all of this take, maybe minutes, maybe 30 seconds, maybe 10 and everything was over. 

So possibly they were busy trying to tell the police officers that he was deaf. 

That would actually make them decent human beings, more worried to avoid a stupid death, rather than taking a video with their phone. 

[Parsec]

One more thing: we already know how everything ended, they didn't.

It's easy thinking about that after everything happened and without being involved. 

 

In such a situation, a person would normally assume that it should end well, being everything so unreal. 

You are just focused on making sure it will not end badly. 

They didn't know that he would have ended up dead, so why recording? 

Just in case? 

 

Or forward thinking? 

"He's already gone, it's pointless trying to save him. Let's just tape his death so then we'll be able to indict the police officers later". 

 

Or morbid tendencies? 

[Paranormal Panther]

On 9/21/2017 at 10:18 AM, internetperson said:

Definitely need all the facts before jumping on the 'police are no good' bandwagon. 

I agree with that. However, we should not jump to the conclusion that the cops have no blame. I'm not saying that you or anybody is doing this, but there is a segment of the American population that reflexively support the police in all situations before they even know the facts of each case. They're as bad as BLM fanatics.

[Paranormal Panther]

On 9/21/2017 at 10:10 PM, susieice said:

Police are not properly trained to handle people who have disabilities. Many don't understand something as common as dementia (alzheimers). I've seen a couple that did not realize the person was speaking as they were because their ability to communicate has been compromised. Always, we keep pictures of our residents on file so they can get a visual if by chance, someone goes missing.

That's an important point. There needs to be more education and training, especially when it comes to people with severe mental problems. I don't like saying this, but it seems like *some* police just lack the intelligence to deal with such people. They really need to hire brighter people in some jurisdictions, but there's a rumor that they don't like to hire people whose IQs are too high because they might question questionable things.

[lightly]

From what I can gather......the police ordered him to get on the ground?  Anyway....police far too often resort to violence before it is necessary ?

how many shootings/killings could be avoided by taking a defensive position and taking some time to analyze the situation?

if no one was in apparent immediate danger....slow down!   Take out some binoculars and see if what he is holding is a piece of pipe or a gun?

 Ignoring a police command, far too often, results in an immediate, and often unnecessary,  beat down!   Or ,as in this case, a needless death!