who put defintions to dream symbols?

[trevor borocz johnson]

Does anyone know who put meaning to the symbols in dreams? Was it Freud? Was it a collection of people? Have they been correctly interpreting symbols for thousands of years? I want to know who put definitions to symbols in online dream dictionairy's.

[quiXilver]

I always wonder that whenever I glance through one of those dream symbol books...

Myths are public dreams.  Dreams are private myths.  Personal, deeply.  Sefl evocative liquid things, reflective and saturating.

The only one who can really place the meaning of the symbolic language of the dreamscape with any possible veracity, would be the one saturated in the experience... at least that is my take/opinion.

 

The books are all just rather entertaining and fun.

To get to the meaning, I must let it settle and come to my own conclusions, or let it go.

 

[+Hammerclaw]

Apparently, someone either just dreamed them up, or they're the product similar associations across a broad spectrum of dreams and dreamers.

[jmccr8]

I read years ago that dreams are in part a process of information being stored. Much of what occurs during our day is stored in the prefrontal cortex, like a temporay files and during our rest/sleep it is processed into our memories. I would tend to think that if one looked at the proceeding daus events that there may be some clue that may have been linked with some emptional reaction

I can't verify the truth of this but thougjt I would add it anyway. I do think that some dreams are linked with things that we do have in our mind in some way like concerns or problems. I say this because there have been times that I did see a solution or new perspective while dreaming although I do not dream all that often, but when I do it is usually when I am looking for resolution for something.

jmccr8

[trevor borocz johnson]

I can't believe there is no accredited author?!? Someone had to have been the person who put pen to paper?

[eight bits]

Quote

I can't believe there is no accredited author?!? Someone had to have been the person who put pen to paper?

A few monkeys with typewriters will get the job done, if you have enough patience.

Look, the very point of using symbols to convey meaning is that symbols have many possible meanings. Signs are the things that have fixed meanings. I can "look up" the meaning of a letter P inside a circle with one of its diameters drawn in. If I have a dream where I'm walking down the street, and in a long line of double-parked cars, there's a single empty space - no, I can't look that up.

I saw a good one yesterday in real life. I was driving through the middle of nowhere (easy to do where I live), and there was a sign at a town line:

Welcome to Pumpkin Junction
Founded 177

in some standard font, and somebody had hand-painted (scrawled, really) the numeral "6" after the 177.

Now that would make a great dream image! Look that one up, lol.

Anyway, people have been interpreting other people's dreams since ancient days, an activity probably on a par with tea leaf reading most of the time.

Freud's key discovery was that there really was such a thing as unconscious cognition, which implies that dreams are thoughts, and so may have actual meaningful content. He didn't quite get past the "sign" level (so, a choo-choo train entering a tunnel "was" sexual intercourse ... uh, huh).

There's a famous story about Freud's discovery that that sort of analysis was inadequate. He had a fondness for cigars. It was pointed out to him that a man smoking a cigar (and exhaling the smoke!) was the very icon of homosexual oral sex. Supposedly he replied,

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sure it is.

Anyway, in real life, Freud's protege Carl Jung is the one who saw that maybe the train plunging into the darkness might sometimes be an emblem of something else besides sex. This caused them to break, and that may have caused Jung to dream one of the most famous dream symbols: the "familiar house." The house in his dream was Jung's psyche or life as a whole or both at once.

You'll probably find that "meaning" for house in online dream dictionaries. Of course, every story takes place somewhere, and houses are convenient places for things to happen. There are many dreams set in houses where the house does not "mean" the dreamer's psyche, etc.

Jung took things further, building on Freud but exceeding the master, noticing that the really memorable dream imagery was often similar to art, literature, mythology, etc. Many similar insights had been written up by William Butler Yeats, a Nobel laureate in literature and a scholarly investigator of folklore and myth. Jung also distinguished between "big dreams" (where the imagery has the quality of myth) and ordinary personal dreams (where the imagery is mostly recycling what's happening IRL and not pointing to anything else).

So the train charging into the tunnel might mean that tomorrow is Monday, and you'll be taking the subway to work again.

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, eight bits said:

A few monkeys with typewriters will get the job done, if you have enough patience.

Look, the very point of using symbols to convey meaning is that symbols have many possible meanings. Signs are the things that have fixed meanings. I can "look up" the meaning of a letter P inside a circle with one of its diameters drawn in. If I have a dream where I'm walking down the street, and in a long line of double-parked cars, there's a single empty space - no, I can't look that up.

I saw a good one yesterday in real life. I was driving through the middle of nowhere (easy to do where I live), and there was a sign at a town line:

Welcome to Pumpkin Junction
Founded 177

in some standard font, and somebody had hand-painted (scrawled, really) the numeral "6" after the 177.

Now that would make a great dream image! Look that one up, lol.

Anyway, people have been interpreting other people's dreams since ancient days, an activity probably on a par with tea leaf reading most of the time.

Freud's key discovery was that there really was such a thing as unconscious cognition, which implies that dreams are thoughts, and so may have actual meaningful content. He didn't quite get past the "sign" level (so, a choo-choo train entering a tunnel "was" sexual intercourse ... uh, huh).

There's a famous story about Freud's discovery that that sort of analysis was inadequate. He had a fondness for cigars. It was pointed out to him that a man smoking a cigar (and exhaling the smoke!) was the very icon of homosexual oral sex. Supposedly he replied,

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sure it is.

Anyway, in real life, Freud's protege Carl Jung is the one who saw that maybe the train plunging into the darkness might sometimes be an emblem of something else besides sex. This caused them to break, and that may have caused Jung to dream one of the most famous dream symbols: the "familiar house." The house in his dream was Jung's psyche or life as a whole or both at once.

You'll probably find that "meaning" for house in online dream dictionaries. Of course, every story takes place somewhere, and houses are convenient places for things to happen. There are many dreams set in houses where the house does not "mean" the dreamer's psyche, etc.

Jung took things further, building on Freud but exceeding the master, noticing that the really memorable dream imagery was often similar to art, literature, mythology, etc. Many similar insights had been written up by William Butler Yeats, a Nobel laureate in literature and a scholarly investigator of folklore and myth. Jung also distinguished between "big dreams" (where the imagery has the quality of myth) and ordinary personal dreams (where the imagery is mostly recycling what's happening IRL and not pointing to anything else).

So the train charging into the tunnel might mean that tomorrow is Monday, and you'll be taking the subway to work again.

I had a dream recently that my hubby and  I were standing in front of a sign that said "You have just entered Texas" it was just after a hurricane, pan to the next scene I am reuniting with my grandparents ( deceased) they were in great health and so happy, so full of hope and  life, pan to next scene:  I am speaking to a person who in my life we are at odds and in the dream again it is after a hurricane things are drying up and the sun is starting to come out and the man and I make peace. I would dream this again the next night. 

I have been taught mainly through dream interpretation that the symbols have meaning to me, ( that the psyche picks specifically for the meaning it holds for me, interestingly Texas specifically does. It is a state I don't want to visit.  I was taught that the weather is my emotional climate and the climate around a situation in general, that the people represent aspects of me or qualities, suggestions, etc.  (in specific the grandmother in this dream is wise in common sense ) hopes, concerns, wishes, fears etc. etc. etc. that my psyche was letting me know now was a good time to focus on healing that I was at a good place for this, while at the same time comforting me. ( my hubby always represents comfort and support) Turns out, I finally have had a chance to heal some things I had been putting off. 

The thing I apprecIate about dreams is the view of a situation and my part becomes clearer, simplier, and hones in on the pros and cons of things and for me is growth promoting. 

I had another dream recently that I was in a Nazi camp ( the dream was in black and white) and I knew I was going to die,  it wasn't clear i the dream but it was going to end, and I wasn't afraid and there was this pit of murky water that had this deadly poisonous  bacteria killing the prisoners, who I couldn't actually see the people only make out the rough outlines of a human form, they seem to want to be hidden and the effects of the poison takes awhile, it depends on the individual. I remember before jumping, thinking it would be better if the pit was acid because it would be faster, yet at the same time I just had this feeling of peaceful acceptance that this is how it is  and death would come eventually and I jumped. 

 

My therapist and I are thinking about this one. She thinks it is more universal in meaning after thinking about it more deeply, I think she is onto something, but universal as in it is more about the people I am dealing with as a successor/ trustee of a trust. 

I would love to hear your thoughts.  

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Sherapy

[eight bits]

Sheri

Both well dreamt.

Texas: I think there is a special category within the category of "big dreams" (the ones with a mythological tone) for dreams of ancestors. On the one hand they are personal dreams (what Texas means to you is probably personal to you), but they are also big dreams: a journey to the land where your ancestors dwell sounds like the synopsis of a myth.

B&W: I know that IRL you have been deeply involved in hospice, and have had a variety of experiences of death and dying. I attribute the following to the work you do with the dying and also that dreams can be "contagious" (two people intensely interacting sometimes report similar dreams - maybe those whom you help are influencing your dreams).

And yes, since I know that about you, it may have influenced my reaction to your dream. Usually when I write about somebody's dream here, I don't know anything relevant about them except what they say than and there.

Marie-Louise von Franz wrote a book about the dreams of the dying (I've mentioned it here at UM from to time), based on her analytical practice.

https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-394-55249-1

I read what you wrote, and just spontaneously thought "that dream belongs in von Franz' book." It's a "passage through water" type, and a gem quality example.

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Sheri

Both well dreamt.

Texas: I think there is a special category within the category of "big dreams" (the ones with a mythological tone) for dreams of ancestors. On the one hand they are personal dreams (what Texas means to you is probably personal to you), but they are also big dreams: a journey to the land where your ancestors dwell sounds like the synopsis of a myth.

B&W: I know that IRL you have been deeply involved in hospice, and have had a variety of experiences of death and dying. I attribute the following to the work you do with the dying and also that dreams can be "contagious" (two people intensely interacting sometimes report similar dreams - maybe those whom you help are influencing your dreams).

And yes, since I know that about you, it may have influenced my reaction to your dream. Usually when I write about somebody's dream here, I don't know anything relevant about them except what they say than and there.

Marie-Louise von Franz wrote a book about the dreams of the dying (I've mentioned it here at UM from to time), based on her analytical practice.

https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-394-55249-1

I read what you wrote, and just spontaneously thought "that dream belongs in von Franz' book." It's a "passage through water" type, and a gem quality example.

Wow, I love the Texas aspect, my therapist said that dreams are personal and universal. What a wonderful way of showing me the connections. Adele (Therapist) will love this.

I ordered that book when you initially recommended it,  I was touched by how much it resonated with the journey of death as it was in the context I was journeying through.  It even helped  me and Susan talk about her journey, And, Helen's daughter at the time was on hospice and we discussed this book as she had read it, She passed in April. These books help open dialogues, and for me taught me how to listen actively so many can't even listen to what someone is dealing with when they get a death diagnosis. 

I will have to go back and read the passage through "water" type. 

Susan passed in August, it was a 7 month 24/7 intensive journey, it was so authentic, she really allowed the process emotionally and she was so open and wanted to explore, and discuss it, she embraced her death with curiousity and wonder and she grew more as a person on hospice than at anytime in her life as for me I did a lot of healing, Susan's bravery was contagious, I love how you brought this in. Great pull P.

It was such an honor to have been the one she wanted with her. It is so funny we both joked how we  were bumbling idiots as neither of us knew what the hell we were doing. After the fact, those that were such a part of her journey have all grown in ways that mattered to them. Death has a positive side.  The week of the end, the actual physical aspect of the body dieing was really rough on us, the us was me, Susan, and my relief caregiver Barbara who was also with me for Helen's death. Thank goodness for Hospice, they really help. 

Barbara and I are on hiatus. I was offered another gig, and an Interesting one to boot, the father of Frank Sesno, CNN devotees will know of this journalist, honestly the people I meet.

https://www.franksesno.com/ask-more/

and I wanted to take the job, my curiosity was screaming at me how fun, how interesting, I even connected to Frank senior, dazzling man for 91, but I had nothing to give, I felt he deserved better, so with a heavy heart I declined. 

Being present, fully present for your death is not for *****'s on many levels.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Sherapy

[eight bits]

Sheri

First, thanks for the kind words and the update.

I had thought that you and I had discussed von Franz a while ago. But maybe somebody else reading this thread will get curious and check her out.

I am also glad to hear you'e pacing yourself and taking a hiatus. I do remember Frank Sesno; and that would have been very cool to work with his father. But I also heard recently that making the 100% right match of client and caregiver from the outset is crucial in your work.

We'll talk again!

 

[trevor borocz johnson]

Had a dream about bleachers recently. What I was thinking the day before matched up perfectly with the symbol in the book. 

[eight bits]

2 hours ago, trevorhbj said:

Had a dream about bleachers recently. What I was thinking the day before matched up perfectly with the symbol in the book.

 

Which book? Online, there seems to be a diversity of views. Here are the first interpretive paragraphs of the first  5 distinct sites that came up for the G-string "bleachers dream meaning":

Dreambible

To see or sit on bleachers in a dream represents your awareness of a confrontation of some sort. You may be noticing yourself struggling with a problem. You may also be reflecting on the progress of your goals. A spectator view of a confrontation or struggle.

Dreamean & Dreammoods & Whatdoesmydreammean

To see or sit on bleachers in your dream, indicates that you are reflecting on your progress in achieving your goals. The appearance of bleachers can also serve to bring you back in time to the high school gym or track field and the feelings you experienced at the time.

Gotohoroscope

To dream that you are on the bleachers and cheering on someone else suggests that you have immense pride in that person that you are cheering for. You truly respect that person and think that they add a lot to your life merely in existing. This suggests that you have an immense ability for empathy and for the ability to understand where someone else is coming from. This is a hard thing to understand for most people, the idea that other people can be as important as or more important than themselves. You realize it though, and are betting all your efforts on that other person. So how about it, do you recognize them?

Dreams.findyourlucky

If you dream of bleachers, you are experiencing difficulty deciding on a choice, or you are torn between two clashing perspectives or feelings.

Mydreammeanings

Dreaming of bleachers mean spectating more than participating. You are the type of person who prefers to stay in the background while all the action takes place before your eyes. After the bleachers dream, it is time to change your outlook and start participating. Success in life is simply showing up to make the necessary human connections.

 

[Mr Walker]

One thing for certain, If you take an interest in your dreams, and also in the language of the subconscious mind, you can learn to understand how your thoughts are symbolically represented in dreams, and what different  dream images and symbols mean to you. Psychology tells us that there are certain universal archetypes like water and flying, houses and nudity,   but that, also, an individual might construct specific symbols to represent danger or fear   it is also possible to deliberately construct symbolic representations used as defense or offense within dreams.

For example if your fears are represented by a wolf which attacks you each night, you can both construct  an effective weapon to destroy the wolf, OR reconstruct the dream to  find a solution. Eg you could interrogate the wolf in your dream and ask it what it represents and why it is appearing.  Because it IS a representation of a part of your own mind, it is quite likely that the wolf may explain you its purpose and the fear in real life which it represents.

In infant school i constructed a set of imaginary dream realms that  i visited every night and had all sorts of adventures within.   They were populated by all sorts of creatures but mostly things suited to a young child like talking animals   When i was about  to enter primary school  one of my bodyguards  ( a huge rabbit dressed and armoured like a roman centurion)  organised other animals to try and kill me They shot me full of arrows and spears.

I just laughed and told the the y couldnt hurt me because the y were creatures of my own creation and this was MY dream scape  But then the y did something unexpected They told me that the realms were barred to me and i could no longer enter them. After that the trap door down to the realms in my backyard no longer appeared in my dreams   Luckily, i realised that this was my subconscious telling me i was growing too old for talking rabbits and infant type dreams I opened up another portal to a different set of worlds  in a new realm via an abandoned building a short distance from our home  and began to construct dreamscapes  more suited to the books i was the reading  like robin hood and biggles and ivanoe etc  I  did this again aged a bout 12/13 when i was entering high school and created more adolescent type dreamscapes, of action and adventure, again based on my reading and, by now, some tv viewing.  with haunted houses, crashed space ships, flying dragons  etc  

  Two of the earliest recurring dreams i had as an infant were these.

In one, my mother and father drove off in the car leaving me behind.  I realised very quickly that this was a fear of abandonment , totally unjustified, but  possibly brought on by the arrival of my younger brother and the fact that suddenly i was not the total centre of attention of my parents.   This  realisation of its cause allowed me to stop having the dream 

A better recurring dream was flying, and extending my consciousness up out of my bed and around the ceiling of our house,  while my parents tried to catch me and put me back into bed. I played this game almost every night for a couple of years as a pre schooler and  up until the age of 5 or 6.  Later, aged 6-8 i would escape the house into the neighbourhood, and fly all around the world 10-12. and then travel the galaxy 14-adult.

  However because there was so much pleasure in the flying dreams i reaised as a child that the y represented escape and freedom.  In turn this represented my growth and development as a child and how difernt skills and disciplines like walking or   being able to talk to people,  gave me more control over my life and greater freedom.   It also symbolised my desire to expand my mind and knowledge beyond the physical limitations on me as a young child.  I could not go out into the neighbourhood as a young child at night  or even very far during the day as a preschooler but in my dreams i could project my consciousness and explore without any limitations. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Mr Walker