Outlawing faith

[Mr Walker]

On 31/10/2017 at 0:33 AM, jmccr8 said:

It is interesting that his first experience when he was cured of smoking and that his stated reaction to the other story was that he paniced backed up against a car and closed his eyes thinking that he was having a heart attack or suffering a delusion. If they were two seperate incidences and the first one affected him in a positive manner, why would his reaction be so different the second time? If one jumps out of a plane skydiving the first experience would be the biggest rush of adrenaline because it is the unknown.

jmccr8

In one, the entity simply stayed along side me, and made no threatening moves. it talked with me and explained its purpose and presence. and explained that it was curing me of addiction 

In the second instance a  large portal or doorway in the sky suddenly began swooping down on me, expanding in size until it occupied the whole sky. there was no communication or explanation.   It then moved rapidly right at me, before passing through me.

    It is the difference between encountering a white pointer swimming towards you in the water,  and  watching  a whale a few metres away  from you while you are on a jetty. 

[Mr Walker]

23 hours ago, Sherapy said:

J., this story of Walker’s has changed so many times over the years, it has gone from outside neighbors as witnesses, to his parents as witnesses, to his dog (yes, I said dog, he argued this too for quite a while) now it is his wife. 

I have followed this story of his and it changes to suit the posters, but the basic outline remains the same.

He saw headlights told others he saw headlights, then he says he thought about it and decided it was Aliens. 

At best he has a story. If he wants to think headlights are aliens visiting him, he can knock himself out. 

And Walker says his story proves nothing. I must say I agree with him.

 I have been on UM since 2005. 

The following is quoted from Walker in 2009, this has been going on for years.

“...the light was observed by two independent witnesses from some distance away, who asked me what it was that lit up our front garden so brightly. Having no intention, at that moment, of even trying to explain what had jus t happened, i said it was the headlights of a car driving into our driveway, then backing out. 

     “Ps the wind has objective existence. Try photographing it. I do think that the pillar of light could have been photographed But back in 1973 no one had mobile phones with cameras attached  And so what if i had taken a perfect picture of it. Without context and knowledge appropriate to the time, place, and event, what exactly would such a photo prove? I already had independent verification that it was a real physical light, not something manufactured within my brain” ( Walker).

“If you were my neighbour from 1973, would you now remember that conversation, even if i could find you today. But at the time it, was true independent corroboration of the physical existence of the light “(Walker).

“Proof to a third party not present at the time, of any paranormal/supernatural event is, by nature and definition difficult, or it would not be seen as paranorma/supernatural. Fortunately it is not necessary that i convince you“ ( Walker). 

I am going to go out on a limb and say he has no evidence for this and never will. 

 

 

Sherapy I have explained this all to you numerous times, yet you persist in retelling your own confused version where you conflate the two very difernt accounts into one. and alter what i said to what you would have liked me to have said   

However you make good points in your last comments. ALL of them are true I know the event occurred outside my head because it had independent witness Today those witnesses are either dead or lost to me  BUT at the time the y proved to ME that i saw a real and powerful light.   These were responses to your question about  how I could know this was not simply an hallucination,which you persist in believing it was   Hallucinations can't be seen by others or recorded  on film  What i saw was, and could have been

I did NOT see headlights, never thought that i did  and never told you  that i did. I saw the entity i have consistently described as a very bright pillar of light,manifest right alongside of me . I did not know what it was  when it manifested but the fact that others saw it means it was not an hallucination  When you first read my story you were very polite and offered several explanations, including that i was hallucinating As i debunked each of your suggestions you became increasingly hostile. I think that is because you deeply fear what it would mean if such things were real 

I saw exactly what i have consistently described.  HOWEVER when my parents asked me what the bright light was , what was i going to say, "Oh an angel visited me and told me i would never smoke a cigarette again" ? No i told THEM that the light was from a truck which had driven into our gateway while reversing direction on the road .

I appreciate that you sincerely struggle with the implications, if these accounts are true. However that doesn't excuse you making things up, or changing my story, to make it sound as if i am lying . 

[Mr Walker]

19 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 

You are defining your ego MW. 

I am defining my knowledge and understanding  But then i do not find ego to be a dirty word  Anyone without a strong and resilient ego is not completely  psychologically healthy.  It is a matter of degree and of balance but, mostly, how much one cares about how one is perceived by others  

[Mr Walker]

53 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Are you sure that there aren't? Maybe we are so involved with our egos of superiority that we don't see the intelligence of others I mean it does happen within our own species.If we opened our eyes maybe we would see who shares this world with us more so than us sharing it with others and again that is applicable to within our own species as well as others.

jmccr8

I am an evidence based sort of guy Show me evidences and proofs, for example, of  the cognitive capacity of the brains of other animals and i will tend to accept it   Show me the necessary sophistication of language in other animals  that allows for/enables  self aware conscious thought. Show me artefacts constructed to show other animals are thinking in abstract and symbolic forms

To get to the truth and to provide the best outcomes we have to look and think objectively not wishing and hoping   No other animal has the abilty, and thus the responsibility, to care for the world, the environment, and for all other species We have this awareness/ability and thus we have the duty and responsibility.  It would be wonderful to have others to share it with, but we do not   It i s my role to protect the elephants, not theirs to protect me 

It is true that some use the superiority of humans to argue for a right to dominate the earth.

  Apart  from being stupid and self destructive,  that neglects the duties and responsibilities which go with power .

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Exactly, J., we are self absorbed primarily, it takes incredible practice to look beyond ourselves. 

Or you can simply keep up to date with all the various disciplines which study human and animal cognition and self aware consciousness Then you can believe or disbelieve the many articles and papers which reference this topic.

The greatest danger for humans who study other animals,  although long recognised, is to attribute to other animals qualities we know that we have.   We see behaviors in other animals that resemble our altruism or love or compassion or creativity and think, "wow Those animals are just like us, " but of course they are not. Unlike us they have no choices.  Their behaviour is preprogrammed and biologically determined.  Because of our self awareness, we are fully capable of overriding those biological imperatives and choosing actions and behaviours beyond those we are programmed with.  

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Sherapy I have explained this all to you numerous times, yet you persist in retelling your own confused version where you conflate the two very difernt accounts into one. and alter what i said to what you would have liked me to have said   

However you make good points in your last comments. ALL of them are true I know the event occurred outside my head because it had independent witness Today those witnesses are either dead or lost to me  BUT at the time the y proved to ME that i saw a real and powerful light.   These were responses to your question about  how I could know this was not simply an hallucination,which you persist in believing it was   Hallucinations can't be seen by others or recorded  on film  What i saw was, and could have been

I did NOT see headlights, never thought that i did  and never told you  that i did. I saw the entity i have consistently described as a very bright pillar of light,manifest right alongside of me . I did not know what it was  when it manifested but the fact that others saw it means it was not an hallucination  When you first read my story you were very polite and offered several explanations, including that i was hallucinating As i debunked each of your suggestions you became increasingly hostile. I think that is because you deeply fear what it would mean if such things were real 

I saw exactly what i have consistently described.  HOWEVER when my parents asked me what the bright light was , what was i going to say, "Oh an angel visited me and told me i would never smoke a cigarette again" ? No i told THEM that the light was from a truck which had driven into our gateway while reversing direction on the road .

I appreciate that you sincerely struggle with the implications, if these accounts are true. However that doesn't excuse you making things up, or changing my story, to make it sound as if i am lying . 

 

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Sherapy I have explained this all to you numerous times, yet you persist in retelling your own confused version where you conflate the two very difernt accounts into one. and alter what i said to what you would have liked me to have said   

However you make good points in your last comments. ALL of them are true I know the event occurred outside my head because it had independent witness Today those witnesses are either dead or lost to me  BUT at the time the y proved to ME that i saw a real and powerful light.   These were responses to your question about  how I could know this was not simply an hallucination,which you persist in believing it was   Hallucinations can't be seen by others or recorded  on film  What i saw was, and could have been

I did NOT see headlights, never thought that i did  and never told you  that i did. I saw the entity i have consistently described as a very bright pillar of light,manifest right alongside of me . I did not know what it was  when it manifested but the fact that others saw it means it was not an hallucination  When you first read my story you were very polite and offered several explanations, including that i was hallucinating As i debunked each of your suggestions you became increasingly hostile. I think that is because you deeply fear what it would mean if such things were real 

I saw exactly what i have consistently described.  HOWEVER when my parents asked me what the bright light was , what was i going to say, "Oh an angel visited me and told me i would never smoke a cigarette again" ? No i told THEM that the light was from a truck which had driven into our gateway while reversing direction on the road .

I appreciate that you sincerely struggle with the implications, if these accounts are true. However that doesn't excuse you making things up, or changing my story, to make it sound as if i am lying . 

MW, I bring your own quote to your attention:

"...independent witnesses from some distance away, who asked me what it was that lit up our front garden so brightly. Having no intention, at that moment, of even trying to explain what had jus t happened,

i said it was the headlights of a car driving into our driveway, then backing out" ( Walker).

 

You are in error MW, while I will not hold it against you, and I am not calling you a liar, But I  am going on record that you told your witnesses that you saw headlights.

The proof is in the post. 

I think you saw headlights and you told your witnesses you saw headlights; at some point you decided the light beam was an alien and you are relying on your own fantastical claim to evidence this, we have been at this cliff edge many times over the years and my suggestion is if you want posters to take you serious you have to produce something. I think you waste a lot of time if I was you and I wanted to be taken serious, I would have proof. If you don't you just have to let it go and be content with the outcome, quitting smoking is a good thing, 

I think you need to call it a day on this story. Do you have anything else?

 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Sherapy

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

I am an evidence based sort of guy Show me evidences and proofs, for example, of  the cognitive capacity of the brains of other animals and i will tend to accept it   Show me the necessary sophistication of language in other animals  that allows for/enables  self aware conscious thought. Show me artefacts constructed to show other animals are thinking in abstract and symbolic forms

To get to the truth and to provide the best outcomes we have to look and think objectively not wishing and hoping   No other animal has the abilty, and thus the responsibility, to care for the world, the environment, and for all other species We have this awareness/ability and thus we have the duty and responsibility.  It would be wonderful to have others to share it with, but we do not   It i s my role to protect the elephants, not theirs to protect me 

It is true that some use the superiority of humans to argue for a right to dominate the earth.

  Apart  from being stupid and self destructive,  that neglects the duties and responsibilities which go with power .

Excellent response, thanks for demonstrating my point about ego driven superior intelligence.

jmccr8

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

I am defining my knowledge and understanding  But then i do not find ego to be a dirty word  Anyone without a strong and resilient ego is not completely  psychologically healthy.  It is a matter of degree and of balance but, mostly, how much one cares about how one is perceived by others  

And, one with an over inflated ego is said to be dysfunctional. 

It was not clear to me you understood or knew you were indeed defining ego, for one who brags incessantly about his immense knowledge in Psychology; I was taken aback by this error as it is elementary Psych 101.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

 

MW, I bring your own quote to your attention:

"...independent witnesses from some distance away, who asked me what it was that lit up our front garden so brightly. Having no intention, at that moment, of even trying to explain what had jus t happened,

i said it was the headlights of a car driving into our driveway, then backing out" ( Walker).

 

You are in error MW, while I will not hold it against you, and I am not calling you a liar, But I  am going on record that you told your witnesses that you saw headlights.

The proof is in the post. 

I think you saw headlights and you told your witnesses you saw headlights; at some point you decided the light beam was an alien and you are relying on your own fantastical claim to evidence this, we have been at this cliff edge many times over the years and my suggestion is if you want posters to take you serious you have to produce something. I think you waste a lot of time if I was you and I wanted to be taken serious, I would have proof. If you don't you just have to let it go and be content with the outcome, quitting smoking is a good thing, 

I think you need to call it a day on this story. Do you have anything else?

 

 

No YOU just repeated what i said in my last post.  In the post you quote, i did not say who those witnesses were In other posts i explained that they were my parents and neighbours    I NEVER told you or thought to myself that i saw a vehicle's lights, and i don't know how it is possible for you to make that assumption.  Yet that is what you just claimed 

"He saw headlights told others he saw headlights, then he says he thought about it and decided it was Aliens. At best he has a story. If he wants to think headlights are aliens visiting him, he can knock himself out. "

SO where and when did i tell you (or anyone on UM)   that i saw headlights?  I explained that i used this as a way to avoid explaining what i did see, to others who saw the light. Where ever did i say that i then decided these  lights were not headlights but aliens  Your mind is locked in total denial and you have just constructed/made up this interpretation to validate your denial  

From your own quote of my post

"...independent witnesses from some distance away, who asked me what it was that lit up our front garden so brightly. Having no intention, at that moment, of even trying to explain what had jus t happened,

i said it was the headlights of a car driving into our driveway, then backing out" ( Walker). 

 

is EXACTLY what i just outlined to you today  Not wanting to try and explain what i had seen, i just told these people who had seen the light that it was a vehicle's lights.  In the post you use i  used the term independent witnesses Actually these were my parents in our house and later on some neighbours across the road. 

Please explain how, otherwise, you can interpret the quote you used, in the way you chose to.  It is in perfectly clear English and an unbiased reader could NOT misinterpret it as you have done.  

Edited November 1, 2017 by Mr Walker

[jmccr8]

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No YOU just repeated what i said in my last post.  In the post you quote, i did not say who those witnesses were In other posts i explained that they were my parents and neighbours    I NEVER told you or thought to myself that i saw a vehicle's lights, and i don't know how it is possible for you to make that assumption.  Yet that is what you just claimed 

 

"...independent witnesses from some distance away, who asked me what it was that lit up our front garden so brightly. Having no intention, at that moment, of even trying to explain what had jus t happened,

i said it was the headlights of a car driving into our driveway, then backing out" ( Walker). 

 

is EXACTLY what i just outlined to you today  Not wanting to try and explain what i had seen i just told these people who had seen the light that it was a vehicle's lights  In the post you use i  used the term independent witnesses Actually these were my parents in our house and later on some neighbours across the road. 

So they are witnesses that can say that you said that they were headlights, yes I can see how that re-enforces your claim of a talking lightbulb.

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

And, one with an over inflated ego is said to be dysfunctional. 

It was not clear to me you understood or knew you were indeed defining ego, for one who brags incessantly about his immense knowledge in Psychology; I was taken aback by this error as it is elementary Psych 101.

 

 

 

I was not defining ego.  I just responded that, having a strong ego is a sign of a good healthy psyche    I don't have to worry about my psychological health or well being as it has been assessed by experts as  good and that, in fact, i am highly functional There are no evidences a t all iny life of any psychological or other cognitive dysfunction Unlike some i did not have an upbringing which may have induced cognitive dissonance or psychological coping mechanisms to deal with my treatment as a child . 

 

This was my post

Aristotle did not have the benefit of  an understanding of neuroscience, or cognitive development, and the nature of mind  Nor of modern psychology.  He did a brilliant job with what he had, but it is now superseded by modern sciences 

Humans recognise their soul because of their self aware nature And in reality our soul IS a cognitive construct of our mind.

It consists of many elements and we grow and shape it as we become self aware.

You can become a good man or an bad man in very simple terms, and your soul will then reflect the decisions you have made and the outcomes you have caused   We KNOW the hurt and pain we can cause others and this sets up a cognitive neural feed back loop in most, causing conscience guilt and then reponses to compensate for these feelings.

It is not flawed logic it is elementary biology  and has been understood since a t least Desmond Morris's seminal work :"The naked ape"  The study of evolution show us the similarities in biology genetics and drivers between all primates  And humans are ONLY an evolved primate. Our self aware consciousness is like icing on the cake of our primate self, in that it alters and improves the overall cake, but doesnt change it's basic nature 

I might be mistaken but it almost seems as if your belief about the nature of humanity is a form of creationist one; ie that humans are basically somehow different in nature from all other animals  That our self awareness is some form of separate  gift. 

WE have been non self aware primates for millions of years, and much of that  evolved nature remains deeply ingrained in us.  The veneer of self awareness is by comparison only a hundred thousand or so years old and in deep conflict with those older biological imperatives 

 

Instead of making any attempt to respond, or critique my points of view, you simply claimed i was defining my own ego 

I was not. I was running through a number of different, but connected points,  which explain the nature of human self awareness, or soul, or spirit

And going on to show that this is an evolved property of humans, which differentiates us from our primate relatives and ancestors.

Ego may represent the power, or strength, of ones own identity, and certainty, and we only have ego for the same reasons we have conscience, guilt, compassion altruism etc  ie because of our evolved level of self awareness.  However ego is only a small part of the psychological make up of humans and only one of many products of the mind which are made possible by self awareness.   

This is more psych 303 than 101, but it also involves a knowledge of the nature of human cognition and consciousness and the neurology of the brain, and how it influences patterns of thinking such as the neural feedback loops involved in conscience and guilt.  

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

5 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

So they are witnesses that can say that you said that they were headlights, yes I can see how that re-enforces your claim of a talking lightbulb.

jmccr8

All it does is refute sherapuys insistence that i was hallucinating. Independent witnesses who asked what the very bright light was,  prove the light was a physical independent/external  event and not an hallucination . It's source and nature is open.  Sherapy has long insisted that such events are impossible, and thus i MUST have ben hallucinating. A matter of her belief vs my experiences  She then ,in her mind and in her posts, continues to rewrite my narrative pretending to use my words but actually using her own interpretation of them to construct a new narrative altogether Eg that  I saw a vehicle's lights and told her that i then changed my story, and invented the alien component That is HER interpretation and NOT mine  I saw what i saw and can describe it clearly 40 plus years later .   

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Excellent response, thanks for demonstrating my point about ego driven superior intelligence.

jmccr8

I am not sure if this is irony, sarcasm or genuine praise so, given the size of my ego and intelligence, i am going to go with the last.  

Human intelligence and ego has the potential to destroy us and our planet, BUT it also has unlimited potential for improvement of ourselves and our environment and to ensure the future of our species.  We could use it to make earth a paradise to live for millennia without pain disease or suffering  and to explore and settle much of our local  neighborhood in our arm of the galaxy.  It will take education, will and discipline, to achieve the better outcome but we are capable of it and have made some big strides towards it already.  I like being human and love who we are  I'd much rather be a human, even if this means we destroy ourselves than live unaware like all other species on earth  We are capable of making a big difference . it is possible we will grow in wisdom and evolve in our behaviours  so that we live in harmony with each other and our environment, establishing humans across hundreds of star systems and many light years of space. No other animal has that potential, or even the capacity to imagine it.  .     

Edited November 1, 2017 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

59 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I was not defining ego.  I just responded that, having a strong ego is a sign of a good healthy psyche    I don't have to worry about my psychological health or well being as it has been assessed by experts as  good and that, in fact, i am highly functional There are no evidences a t all iny life of any psychological or other cognitive dysfunction Unlike some i did not have an upbringing which may have induced cognitive dissonance or psychological coping mechanisms to deal with my treatment as a child . 

 

This was my post

Aristotle did not have the benefit of  an understanding of neuroscience, or cognitive development, and the nature of mind  Nor of modern psychology.  He did a brilliant job with what he had, but it is now superseded by modern sciences 

Humans recognise their soul because of their self aware nature And in reality our soul IS a cognitive construct of our mind.

It consists of many elements and we grow and shape it as we become self aware.

You can become a good man or an bad man in very simple terms, and your soul will then reflect the decisions you have made and the outcomes you have caused   We KNOW the hurt and pain we can cause others and this sets up a cognitive neural feed back loop in most, causing conscience guilt and then reponses to compensate for these feelings.

It is not flawed logic it is elementary biology  and has been understood since a t least Desmond Morris's seminal work :"The naked ape"  The study of evolution show us the similarities in biology genetics and drivers between all primates  And humans are ONLY an evolved primate. Our self aware consciousness is like icing on the cake of our primate self, in that it alters and improves the overall cake, but doesnt change it's basic nature 

I might be mistaken but it almost seems as if your belief about the nature of humanity is a form of creationist one; ie that humans are basically somehow different in nature from all other animals  That our self awareness is some form of separate  gift. 

WE have been non self aware primates for millions of years, and much of that  evolved nature remains deeply ingrained in us.  The veneer of self awareness is by comparison only a hundred thousand or so years old and in deep conflict with those older biological imperatives 

 

Instead of making any attempt to respond, or critique my points of view, you simply claimed i was defining my own ego 

I was not. I was running through a number of different, but connected points,  which explain the nature of human self awareness, or soul, or spirit

And going on to show that this is an evolved property of humans, which differentiates us from our primate relatives and ancestors.

Ego may represent the power, or strength, of ones own identity, and certainty, and we only have ego for the same reasons we have conscience, guilt, compassion altruism etc  ie because of our evolved level of self awareness.  However ego is only a small part of the psychological make up of humans and only one of many products of the mind which are made possible by self awareness.   

This is more psych 303 than 101, but it also involves a knowledge of the nature of human cognition and consciousness and the neurology of the brain, and how it influences patterns of thinking such as the neural feedback loops involved in conscience and guilt.  

 

MW, you are attempting to define the soul in this post, but in reality you are defining the ego. 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

55 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

All it does is refute sherapuys insistence that i was hallucinating. Independent witnesses who asked what the very bright light was,  prove the light was a physical independent/external  event and not an hallucination . It's source and nature is open.  Sherapy has long insisted that such events are impossible, and thus i MUST have ben hallucinating. A matter of her belief vs my experiences  She then ,in her mind and in her posts, continues to rewrite my narrative pretending to use my words but actually using her own interpretation of them to construct a new narrative altogether Eg that  I saw a vehicle's lights and told her that i then changed my story, and invented the alien component That is HER interpretation and NOT mine  I saw what i saw and can describe it clearly 40 plus years later .   

 

55 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

All it does is refute sherapuys insistence that i was hallucinating. Independent witnesses who asked what the very bright light was,  prove the light was a physical independent/external  event and not an hallucination . It's source and nature is open.  Sherapy has long insisted that such events are impossible, and thus i MUST have ben hallucinating. A matter of her belief vs my experiences  She then ,in her mind and in her posts, continues to rewrite my narrative pretending to use my words but actually using her own interpretation of them to construct a new narrative altogether Eg that  I saw a vehicle's lights and told her that i then changed my story, and invented the alien component That is HER interpretation and NOT mine  I saw what i saw and can describe it clearly 40 plus years later .   

Your experiences tell us the most, you saw lights and you said they were headlights when asked. 

End of story, there is no way around this.

You said headlights when asked. 

Why didn't you just say It was a light that told you it was gonna remove your nicotine addiction? 

When I thought I saw two angels on each side of me one in the form of my mom ( as she lay dieing in a hospital ) and one in the form of my deceased grandmother( dead for years)  I told everyone I thought I saw angels offering me support, comfort and encouragement telling me that I could face what was coming. I still tell this story, many of my friends offered all kinds of  interpretations including,  god was there for me even though I don't believe in god. In fact, I heard this a lot. I also shared my interpretation which is I was under an incredible amount of stress and hallucinated a comfort delusion. It doesn't matter if it was real (and it wasn't) and I certainly am not gonna spend years trying to argue it was, I can't, so it only matters that it helped me, that in the end this was my experience.

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Sherapy

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

 

Your experiences tell us the most, you saw lights and you said they were headlights when asked. 

End of story, there is no way around this.

You said headlights when asked. 

Why didn't you just say It was a light that told you it was gonna remove your nicotine addiction? 

 

Well he told usthat the light cured his smoking because we weren't there but he didn't feel that anyone there that witnessed the talking lightbulb would believe him so he told them that it was headlights. Sounds totally believable to me coming from a guy that always tells the truth.

jmccr8

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Well he told usthat the light cured his smoking because we weren't there but he didn't feel that anyone there that witnessed the talking lightbulb would believe him so he told them that it was headlights. Sounds totally believable to me coming from a guy that always tells the truth.

jmccr8

My question is why was he worried no one would believe him? 

He says he is a man of great honestly, yet tells us a story (many times) that he told his family and friends that the light beam that spoke to him and removed his nictonine addiction was headlights. 

I am not calling him a liar, but by his own admission he told them it was headlights. 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Sherapy

[jmccr8]

55 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I am not sure if this is irony, sarcasm or genuine praise so, given the size of my ego and intelligence, i am going to go with the last.  

Human intelligence and ego has the potential to destroy us and our planet, BUT it also has unlimited potential for improvement of ourselves and our environment and to ensure the future of our species.  We could use it to make earth a paradise to live for millennia without pain disease or suffering  and to explore and settle much of our local  neighborhood in our arm of the galaxy.  It will take education, will and discipline, to achieve the better outcome but we are capable of it and have made some big strides towards it already.  I like being human and love who we are  I'd much rather be a human, even if this means we destroy ourselves than live unaware like all other species on earth  We are capable of making a big difference . it is possible we will grow in wisdom and evolve in our behaviours  so that we live in harmony with each other and our environment, establishing humans across hundreds of star systems and many light years of space. No other animal has that potential, or even the capacity to imagine it.  .     

 As my friend Andrew Dice Clay would say Unbelievable, absof###inglutly Unbelievable. Bravo Walker great show I am standing here appauding your vanity.

jmccr8

Edited November 1, 2017 by jmccr8

[jmccr8]

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

My question is why was he worried no one would believe him? 

My question is if they were there and wouldn't believe why would he think we would believe the OTHER truth he told here especially since we have asked time after time for credible scientific documentation and expained that it is much more than self evaluation and subjective interpretation?

jmccr8

Edited November 1, 2017 by jmccr8

[+Sherapy]

10 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

My question is if they were there and wouldn't believe why would he think we would believe the OTHER truth he told here especially since we have asked time after time for credible scientific documentation and expained that it is much more than self evaluation and subjective interpretation?

jmccr8

Good question.

[Mr Walker]

27 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

 As my friend Andrew Dice Clay would say Unbelievable, absof###inglutly Unbelievable. Bravo Walker great show I am standing here appauding your vanity.

jmccr8

Not just my vanity  Possibly not vanity at all. It is the version of the future which optimists, or at least those not overly pessimistic, see for humanity  This is the theme of science fiction writers, through the golden age ( and again after the "dark age" of the cold war, in the fifties and sixties) , when they explored the potential of humanity. 

It is, indeed, the theme of star trek and all it's multiple spinoffs, and very deliberately/consciously so .  Might i ask where YOU see humanity being, in 200 or 1000 years time? 

 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

MW, you are attempting to define the soul in this post, but in reality you are defining the ego. 

 

 

 

No The ego is only a small component of the soul.   Both begin with self aware consciousness, but the human souls encompasses so much more than just ego 

[Mr Walker]

51 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

 

Your experiences tell us the most, you saw lights and you said they were headlights when asked. 

End of story, there is no way around this.

You said headlights when asked. 

Why didn't you just say It was a light that told you it was gonna remove your nicotine addiction? 

When I thought I saw two angels on each side of me one in the form of my mom ( as she lay dieing in a hospital ) and one in the form of my deceased grandmother( dead for years)  I told everyone I thought I saw angels offering me support, comfort and encouragement telling me that I could face what was coming. I still tell this story, many of my friends offered all kinds of  interpretations including,  god was there for me even though I don't believe in god. In fact, I heard this a lot. I also shared my interpretation which is I was under an incredible amount of stress and hallucinated a comfort delusion. It doesn't matter if it was real (and it wasn't) and I certainly am not gonna spend years trying to argue it was, I can't, so it only matters that it helped me, that in the end this was my experience.

 

You truly do not get it, do you?  I see what i saw and then my parents ask what the light was?  You honestly think i am going to tell them I  was visited by an alien being, who appeared in  a pillar of light, and told me he had just removed a long term addiction to nicotine  And that, after smoking a packet or more a day for 5 years or so I would never smoke again?  Is that what YOU would have told your mum if she had  asked?

 Sorry but a normal person doesn't just tell anyone something like that, let alone their parents. I gave them an answer which would reassure and comfort them   Remember i was an atheist hedonist, and secular humanist,at the time. My parents were atheists and secular humanists  and any way it would have meant hours of pointless discussion.

And i am not you. My experience was real and physical, and only the first of many similar encounters over the next half century.  it wasn't until these other experiences began to occur th t i really  began to appreciate and understand just what it was that i had encountered ie  An independent powerful entity, with a caring and protective interest in me.

  So no, i was not then, and even today, am not comfortable telling people about such things outside of the internet. 

You believe you hallucinated and if you have no independent corroboration, it is possible that  you did. However it is also possible that you saw two real figures guised as your loved ones and sent to give you comfort.

It is up t you what oyu do with your own experience. You then act on your decision, as you have,  You've decided it wasn't real, and also you have decided that every similar experience by anyone else is the same as your own.  

[jmccr8]

12 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Not just my vanity  Possibly not vanity at all. It is the version of the future which optimists, or at least those not overly pessimistic, see for humanity  This is the theme of science fiction writers, through the golden age ( and again after the "dark age" of the cold war, in the fifties and sixties) , when they explored the potential of humanity. 

It is, indeed, the theme of star trek and all it's multiple spinoffs, and very deliberately/consciously so .  Might i ask where YOU see humanity being, in 200 or 1000 years time? 

 

Well yes the potential is always there and as long as people don't get too self absorbed with their superior intellect attitude we may eben get the opportunity to learn from others that we may encounter just like some of the lesser egos that learn from the world around them now.

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

57 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Well he told usthat the light cured his smoking because we weren't there but he didn't feel that anyone there that witnessed the talking lightbulb would believe him so he told them that it was headlights. Sounds totally believable to me coming from a guy that always tells the truth.

jmccr8

Where did you get any talking light bulb from ? Not my narrative. 

And i don't always tell the truth, although i do my best to. My claim is that ,on UM, i can be totally truthful because there are no repercussions from being truthful  In real life there ARE repercussions and sometimes it it necessary to lie.