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Palestinian peace offensive


Sir Smoke aLot

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3 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Symbolic rockets... "Symbolic bomb just exploded killing 200"... Just symbolic... Symbolic rockets/bombs explode almost everyday in ME. Do you make much ruckus 'bout that, huh? Ah, right, "Muslims killing muslims... Hm, OK, $#!+ happens".

BTW, what Geneva convention says about not negotiating with terrorists?

Seriously, why don't you stand for returning Palestinian lands from Jordan? Come on, justice warrior, demand for free Palestine!...*Snip*.

Uh, yes, largely symbolic as you can see here:

rockets.jpg.755b29179fe08ad6855bc7e1a6e5a4aa.jpg

What would you call 33 total dead from 19,000 attacks since 2001? Of course they are symbolic (Lol. "200 dead from rocket attacks!"). Conversely, Israel has killed 937 civilians and that's only since 2009. Which is the real monster here?

I don't think the Geneva Convention says anything about negotiating with terrorists.

 

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11 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Uh, yes, largely symbolic as you can see here:

rockets.jpg.755b29179fe08ad6855bc7e1a6e5a4aa.jpg

What would you call 33 total dead from 19,000 attacks since 2001? Of course they are symbolic (Lol. "200 dead from rocket attacks!"). Conversely, Israel has killed 937 civilians and that's only since 2009. Which is the real monster here?

 

For f's sake... Are you that THICK?! If IDF would launch campaign similar to that of what muslims do to muslims in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan...  Gaza and West Bank would we desolate in few months.

11 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

[...]

I don't think the Geneva Convention says anything about negotiating with terrorists.

Exactly. So, whats your thoughts about terrorist organization ruling over "country"? Hint, Hamas.

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23 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

For f's sake... Are you that THICK?! If IDF would launch campaign similar to that of what muslims do to muslims in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan...  Gaza and West Bank would we desolate in few months.

Of course it would. Where did I supposedly claim that it would not?

24 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Exactly. So, whats your thoughts about terrorist organization ruling over "country"? Hint, Hamas.

Hamas are the democratically elected government. This legitimises them (whether some want to accept it or not) and dictates that they are not a terrorist organisation. Now, you could call them a government who commit terrorist acts (rockets), but you could say the same about Israel, the US, UK, France, Russia or really any government that has targeted civilians or used fear as a weapon. With a ruling government, it becomes a form of state terrorism.

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On 12/14/2017 at 1:48 AM, TruthSeeker_ said:

that's why the holy city can and must be divided.

Do you really believe that peace between Jews and Palestinians is possible?  More to the point, if a treaty is signed and while it's being implemented, some of the Palestinians refuse to honor it and start killing Jews again?  What then?  Israel will have already vacated the land and removed most of their forces.  The Bible explains how this ends.  The descendants of Jacob inherit the land...all of it.  They pay with 2/3s of their pre-war population but the Palestinians are nearly annihilated.  It's a horrific future to contemplate.  They won't be the only ones involved and the bloodshed will impact most of the planet.  All for the sake of a tiny, if beautiful piece of blood-soaked land.

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7 hours ago, and then said:

Do you really believe that peace between Jews and Palestinians is possible?  More to the point, if a treaty is signed and while it's being implemented, some of the Palestinians refuse to honor it and start killing Jews again?  What then?  Israel will have already vacated the land and removed most of their forces.  The Bible explains how this ends.  The descendants of Jacob inherit the land...all of it.  They pay with 2/3s of their pre-war population but the Palestinians are nearly annihilated.  It's a horrific future to contemplate.  They won't be the only ones involved and the bloodshed will impact most of the planet.  All for the sake of a tiny, if beautiful piece of blood-soaked land.

What if the Israelis attack the palestinians again? And so on and so forth. Both sides have a divine claim on the City. More to the point, there is no other solution but to divide Jerusalem.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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14 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Of course it would. Where did I supposedly claim that it would not?

Hamas are the democratically elected government. This legitimises them (whether some want to accept it or not) and dictates that they are not a terrorist organisation. Now, you could call them a government who commit terrorist acts (rockets), but you could say the same about Israel, the US, UK, France, Russia or really any government that has targeted civilians or used fear as a weapon. With a ruling government, it becomes a form of state terrorism.

Here is the thing: is Hamas truly represents Palestinians, or just feeding (in monetary way) on Palestinians?

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5 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Here is the thing: is Hamas truly represents Palestinians, or just feeding (in monetary way) on Palestinians?

As with practically every government on the planet, it's probably both.

But the main reason they have so much support is because they help the people financially. A lot.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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16 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

What if the Israelis attack the palestinians again? And so on and so forth. Both sides have a divine claim on the City. More to the point, there is no other solution but to divide Jerusalem.

Oh, I believe it will be divided.  You're right.  From a secular perspective, there can be no other choice due to the situation on the ground.  It will do no good though.  The Israelis will (again) give up land and remove troops that provide security for Jews and eventually, sooner rather than later, I suspect, some group of malcontent Palestinians will start killing again.  You don't have to be a genius to look at the history of the last 25 years or so and predict that what was, will be again.  The Israelis WILL attack them again but it will be after a provocation.  If Israel clearly is the first aggressor after the treaty is signed then I'll condemn them.  That would be different than the past.

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12 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

As with practically every government on the planet, it's probably both.

But the main reason they have so much support is because they help the people financially. A lot.

Right... "Here, have your $1, rest $100 we will spend on digging tunnels and buying guns"

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There will never be any real peace between the two sides, only an uneasy armistice in the best of times. Both have become proxy's in a wider geopolitical conflict without resolution. History will simply have to run it's course until the weight of the swelling human tide around the Zionist State finally crashes through all barriers and overwhelms it. It could happy quickly in one horrific spasm of violence, or slowly, a death of a thousand cuts.

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8 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Right... "Here, have your $1, rest $100 we will spend on digging tunnels and buying guns"

They wouldn't have the support of their citizens is this was the case. In fact, their treatment of the civilians coupled with the civilians' view of the PA and Fatah as being corrupt is a not insignificant part of why they rose to power.

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On 12/15/2017 at 2:00 AM, Black Red Devil said:

Well according to the UN, land assigned to the Arabs has been occupied by Israel in 1967.  This includes East Jerusalem. In 1949 the 4th Geneva Convention was adopted which Israel was also a signatory to and declares:

Article 2 states that signatories are bound by the convention both in war, armed conflicts where war has not been declared and in an occupation of another country's territory.

In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peacetime, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.

So Israel is in breach of the article of the Geneva Convention for occupying land through settlements and subsequently in breach of International Law set out by the UN which Israel is a signatory to, considering also the fact that Israel agreed that East Jerusalem would be partitioned to Arabs. 

Sorry, your Canaanite example doesn't apply.  Too far back in history

Ah right... too far back in History. Umm... what is the cut-off point ?

Oh.. and the UN didn't allocate Jerusalem to ANYONE... it was supposed to be a 'corpus separatum' ... an international city under UN control. Or something like that. So NOBODY actually "owns" it as far as the UN proposed partition plan went. However, as the Arab's rejected the UN plan ANYWAY, then who KNOWS what "international law" says ?

Personally, I'm going to self-identify as a Caananite, and claim the whole city !

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On 12/16/2017 at 0:00 PM, ExpandMyMind said:

As with practically every government on the planet, it's probably both.

But the main reason they have so much support is because they help the people financially. A lot.

Oh Yes!  They do help the people financially...by paying families for their martyrs!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023604/Families-suicide-bombers-given-5m-British-aid-cash.html

British aid cash is being given to the families of suicide bombers, it was claimed last night.

The Palestinian Authority, which gets £86million of British aid a year, has authorised payments of almost £5million to the families of ‘martyrs’.

Another £3million has been given to 5,500 Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails. The payments, using taxpayers’ cash donated from Britain and the European Union, have been described as ‘ludicrous’ by one Tory MP.



 

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6 hours ago, joc said:

Oh Yes!  They do help the people financially...by paying families for their martyrs!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023604/Families-suicide-bombers-given-5m-British-aid-cash.html

British aid cash is being given to the families of suicide bombers, it was claimed last night.

The Palestinian Authority, which gets £86million of British aid a year, has authorised payments of almost £5million to the families of ‘martyrs’.

Another £3million has been given to 5,500 Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails. The payments, using taxpayers’ cash donated from Britain and the European Union, have been described as ‘ludicrous’ by one Tory MP.

They give money to the families of people killed or imprisoned by Israel. Why would I have a problem with that? I have a feeling the word 'martyr' doesn't mean what you think it means.

And thanks. You actually just proved my point.

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1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

They give money to the families of people killed or imprisoned by Israel. Why would I have a problem with that? I have a feeling the word 'martyr' doesn't mean what you think it means.

And thanks. You actually just proved my point.

It is common knowledge that Hamas pays the families of suicide bombers

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1 hour ago, joc said:

It is common knowledge that Hamas pays the families of suicide bombers

They renounced suicide bombing in 2006. That was nearly 12 years ago and they haven't been responsible for an attack since (though there have been a few individual attacks since 2006).

A martyr is simply someone who dies for a cause. Like the guy who lost his legs to an Israeli airstrike in 2008, only to be killed - in his wheelchair - during the recent protests in Gaza. That is a martyr. It doesn't have to be a suicide bomber or even a Muslim.

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27 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

They renounced suicide bombing in 2006. That was nearly 12 years ago and they haven't been responsible for an attack since (though there have been a few individual attacks since 2006).

A martyr is simply someone who dies for a cause. Like the guy who lost his legs to an Israeli airstrike in 2008, only to be killed - in his wheelchair - during the recent protests in Gaza. That is a martyr. It doesn't have to be a suicide bomber or even a Muslim.

The suicide bombings...which happened almost weekly if not daily....ended...when Israel built a wall...

Hey President Trump...where is our Wall??

...Hamas is a cult of lying, murdering, Isamists....please...you believe anything?

Edited by joc
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6 minutes ago, joc said:

The suicide bombings...which happened almost weekly if not daily....ended...when Israel built a wall...

You can put forward the opinion that the wall stopped them, but on deeper analysis it's fairly easy to realise that, while the wall would no doubt make it more difficult to blow up bombs, it would not stop them if they were committed to the act.

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Quote

US outnumbered 14 to 1 as it vetoes UN vote on status of Jerusalem

A UN security council resolution calling for the withdrawal of Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has been backed by every council member except the US, which used its veto.

The unanimity of the rest of the council was a stark rebuke to the Trump administration over its unilateral move earlier this month, which upended decades of international consensus.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/us-outnumbered-14-to-1-as-it-vetoes-un-vote-on-status-of-jerusalem

Nikki Haley making a fool of herself at the U.N, defending the undefendable.

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On 12/19/2017 at 1:56 AM, RoofGardener said:

Ah right... too far back in History. Umm... what is the cut-off point ?

Oh.. and the UN didn't allocate Jerusalem to ANYONE... it was supposed to be a 'corpus separatum' ... an international city under UN control. Or something like that. So NOBODY actually "owns" it as far as the UN proposed partition plan went. However, as the Arab's rejected the UN plan ANYWAY, then who KNOWS what "international law" says ?

Personally, I'm going to self-identify as a Caananite, and claim the whole city !

How about as far back as the Neanderthals?  We're Caananites around then? Abraham wouldn't have been far off. 

"Nobody actually owns it?"  So why are the Jews claiming it as their capital? :P

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On 12/11/2017 at 8:49 PM, odas said:

Come on D. I have no hate.

If you do not agree with things like this one in the video below then you are hater :

Video is relevant to the topic, recommended to watch it. I was so sad after watching reports about it in regional medias which are very biased and supportive of Israel. Even tho the public here is naturally supportive towards Palestinian freedom and are perfectly aware of the suffering which Palestinians have to go through in their daily lives.

http://balkans.aljazeera.net/vijesti/u-sarajevu-odrzan-protest-podrske-palestini link in which there is video from gathering in Sarajevo.

By killing man in wheelchair with sniper shot and by targeting kids in the head ( http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/palestinian-teen-coma-shot-rubber-bullet-171217210649934.html ) in recent protests IDF is breaking laws of their own colonial project state.

Now, that is hate. Unarmed protests, even if they include people who are throwing rocks, those protests must not be responded to by firearms. It's forbidden, as i said, even in laws of Israel.

But do laws apply to subhumans? From Israeli perspective Palestinians are subhumans, hence such treatment on the field. That, my friends, that is hate in it's purest form.

 

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21 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

How about as far back as the Neanderthals?  We're Caananites around then? Abraham wouldn't have been far off. 

"Nobody actually owns it?"  So why are the Jews claiming it as their capital? :P

I think I misread your earlier post; I thought you said that the UN had allocated East Jerusalem to the Palestinians, but you hadn't. :)

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On 12/18/2017 at 10:12 PM, ExpandMyMind said:

They give money to the families of people killed or imprisoned by Israel. Why would I have a problem with that? I have a feeling the word 'martyr' doesn't mean what you think it means.

And thanks. You actually just proved my point.

Israel would argue that the people killed - or imprisoned - where terrorists who had killed - or attempted to kill - Israeli's.

Martyr: (from Wikipedia)

... Shahid and Shaheed (Arabic: شهيدšahīd, plural: شُهَدَاء šuhadāʾ ; female: šahīda) originates from the Quranic Arabic word meaning "witness" and is also used to denote a martyr.[1] It is used as a honorific for Muslims who have died fulfilling a religious commandment, especially those who die waging jihad, or historically in the military expansion of Islam. The act of martyrdom is istishhad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahid

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