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Mr. Argon

Numerology

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Numbers. As a part of my education in public school I was introduced to mathematics. It was as you probably know a subject which deals with numbers from a purely quantifying point of view. Now, by a little insight i got through reading a few books on sacred geometry and numerology I acquired a vague notion of numers as principles. Principles which have a strong meaning which is linked with the three-dimensional cave we live in and call it our reality. To be brief as possible. From what I read on pages of those books there is suggestion that numbers are somehow linked or intertwined with symbols, with frequencies and with words also. It is suggested that each letter is connected with a certain number. That profane or vulgar words carry in themselves a certain disharmony while words which are lofty posess a harmonious aspect and beautiful harmony. If anyone over here has a more clear and deeper insight into this theories please write something about your own discoveries and thoughts on this subject.

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If you have only basic/minimal education in math's and number theory, then how will you recognise, say, cherry-picking techniques?  Or patterns that arise that are simply inherent in the numbers, like the repeating patterns when you divide a number by seven?  Or trickery where they use the old reverse-your-number-and-add-the-digits trick, or the even older take-away-the-number-you-first-thought-of?  Or hidden divide by zero tricks? And so on and on.....

Let alone choices (eg of methodology or even number-base) that have been made after testing them out to see which gives the desired result?

I've never seen a single example of properly documented and methodical/logical/unbiased use of numerology which showed anything of significance.  So, would you like to give us a really good example from what you have read?

 

As a direct example of why I think numerology is bunkum, have you ever looked at different cultures/religion's 'unlucky' numbers?  If there was something to it, surely they would all be the same...

 

BTW, the most special number ever is 142857.  Please do not ask why..........

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6 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I've never seen a single example of properly documented and methodical/logical/unbiased use of numerology which showed anything of significance.  So, would you like to give us a really good example from what you have read?

Very well. Methodology, logic and objectivity.

If you ask for that sort of triad, then unfortunately I will have to dissapoint you. I am not capable of that. But thanks for the reply anyway since it opened my inspiration to present what I have to say further about numbers apart from your holy triad. Namely I wish to continue without any logic and objectivity and especially without any sort of methodology. I will appeal only to intuiton (so despised by the scientific mind by the way) so, on this thread I would like to have more dreamers and mystics - not scientists. As for the continuance I will briefly explain what caught my attention to numbers in my next post.

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one of my friend recently changed the mobile number because numerolgist told so, will it be any benefit to her... I don't know. 

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Back in May I had an Experience. A shift in consciousness. Colors had a hazy hue and numbers would pop up everywhere, most often it was 333. To me the meaning of this was me becoming aligned with my physical , mental and spiritual power. That was my intuitive feeling at that time and knowing I'd never experienced this before, my intuition just felt right to me. Words started to play on my mind and I would study the meanings of them and discard the "noisy" words from my vocabulary. The words that made noise were a distraction from the words that made sense and were meaningful..  If all of us were responsible for our  own thoughts,words and actions and the good/bad effects they cause and have Empathy for all living things, we wouldn't need to be governed or told how to do and be, we would just know what needed to be done instinctively.. Alas this is not the case.. But many are making leaps and bounds towards awakening.. and so there is hope...

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Posted (edited)

Let’s start with geometry. Although a word “geometry” simply means “measuring of the earth” it is also profoundly linked with numbers as principles. If you look at geometry from a certain point of view it offers an insight about the order of the universe. Perhaps at first this sounds like an exaggerated, grotesque statement.

Now, let’s think for a few moments on this statement of Pythagoras “All is arranged according to Number.” What did he mean by that? We are too often prone to look at numbers as mere tools for quantification of things, so what is needed is to look at the numbers from a radically different perspective.

First of all it is important to realize that numbers essentially possess a double nature. They possess both a quantitative nature and a qualitative one. Through our school education we are more or less acquainted with their quantitative nature. But what is this qualitative nature I am speaking about?

Let’s start with a simple Circle. Circle is a starting and an ending point of everything. Equally important is a center. Center is according to a vast majority of ancient teachings a sacred ground. A seed – or Axis Mundi. The symbolism of Axis Mundi is expressed with various symbols in different cultures.

The Circle represents a principle of a Monad. The number one. Unity.  The whole universe is a Monad, and any single unit of consciousness in the universe is also a Monad. It is like a primal seed from which a tree grows. The branches of this tree are numbers, and numbers are principles.  Now let the tree grow. Let’s consider a Dyad as a primal Division and the mysterious shape of Vesica Pisces.

 

The Unity (or Monad) divides itself and this is the beginning of Creation. So how this One becomes a Many? The answer is Mirroring. The One contemplates itself, and projects out its own shadow. Thus we now have a principle of Duality. The number Two. Though this process looks and is simple it opens up  infinite possibilities. Let’s see how.

 

01.jpg.a17881131c9549902d0dca2a2c9aeada.jpg

 

Casting a shadow, also a primal division. Beginning of creation and principle of Duality. Number Two.

If we now connect centers of each circle we have a line.

2.jpg.c93f95b44e94c1d11d774826554b06e3.jpg

 

The intersecting area of two circles is called the Vesica Pisces. Let’s also have a clear notion that neither point nor line in reality have no dimension. No thickness. The line is only a principle of Extension.

The principle of Dyad is Polarity, a tension. This tension is omnipresent in human consciousness and in the way we perceive nature. There is a great paradox in this division for as it creates a tension and separation, at the same time it creates attraction – a striving for original Unity. This polar tension lies at the root of all Creation. Thus with the Dyad we have a world of opposites, a world of tension and attraction.

The Vesica Pisces – the intersecting area of two circles represents a symbol of fusion of opposites but there is a vastly more symbolic significance in that symbol. But for the sake of this brief introduction to number theory let’s just keep it at it’s basics for now.

Edited by Mr. Argon
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Before going further it would perhaps be beneficial to deepen the mystery surrounding this first two numbers. One is incomprehensible. Beginning is incomprehensible if there ever was such a thing as beginning. Let’s try to think about current scientific theory of so called “Big Bang”. From the start the term Big Bang is characteristic for scientific mentality which is completely divorced from any feeling of spirituality and devotion. They just play with nature without any spiritual connection to it whatsoever. To call such an incomprehensible mystery “Big Bang” essentially reveals arrogant and pretentious and profane spirit of modern so called “science”. Basically science from the one side says that something cannot be created out of nothing, but then how to explain the beginning of all things? How did the first thing got into being? There is no answer. Either from the mystics, either from science.

So the first number “ONE” is beyond the grasp of the mind. Perhaps the closest we can get in approaching it is to call it eternity and all encompassing Unity. So as explained in a previous post this Unity contemplated and mirrored itself and created Duality – a principle of tension and attraction. This point of creation presents a Fall, but that fall opens the door for infinite potentialities of Creation.

One of possible interpretations of Vesica Pisces, the area which represents the intersection of primal division is that the shadow which the Circle emanated represents the feminine aspect of the One. So the intersecting area represents the merging of feminine and masculine aspects and thus the womb of creation. It also represents the area of balance between two opposite poles which would otherwise be in constant tension.

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On 10/15/2017 at 6:18 PM, kartikg said:

one of my friend recently changed the mobile number because numerolgist told so, will it be any benefit to her... I don't know. 

It means people/friends/family will stop hassling her on the phone. Worked for me.

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1 hour ago, Emma_Acid said:

It means people/friends/family will stop hassling her on the phone. Worked for me.

HaHa, she changed the number so that she can get more calls hence more orders for her business. 

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Mr. Argon I  have a background in mathematics. I was reading y ur post on numerology and see the basics I have seen with sacred geometry. I won't go far into your post to discuss some of the issues.

Quote

Let’s start with geometry. Although a word “geometry” simply means “measuring of the earth” it is also profoundly linked with numbers as principles. If you look at geometry from a certain point of view it offers an insight about the order of the universe. Perhaps at first this sounds like an exaggerated, grotesque statement.

Now, let’s think for a few moments on this statement of Pythagoras “All is arranged according to Number.” What did he mean by that? We are too often prone to look at numbers as mere tools for quantification of things, so what is needed is to look at the numbers from a radically different perspective.

First of all it is important to realize that numbers essentially possess a double nature. They possess both a quantitative nature and a qualitative one. Through our school education we are more or less acquainted with their quantitative nature. But what is this qualitative nature I am speaking about?

Geometry does not have to be linked with numbers. Most proofs in geometry do not involve numbers other than things like the number of sides to a triangle is three. You suggest geometry offers an insight into the order of the universe. I would say that geometry is constructed to mimic the universe. A classic example is the nature of parallel lines. Do they exist? Euclidean geometry says they do. Some geometries say no. Another form says yes, but all intersect at a single point. All of these forms are as far as we know viable.

Do numbers have a qualitative nature?

Quote

Let’s start with a simple Circle. Circle is a starting and an ending point of everything. Equally important is a center. Center is according to a vast majority of ancient teachings a sacred ground. A seed – or Axis Mundi. The symbolism of Axis Mundi is expressed with various symbols in different cultures.

The Circle represents a principle of a Monad. The number one. Unity.  The whole universe is a Monad, and any single unit of consciousness in the universe is also a Monad. It is like a primal seed from which a tree grows. The branches of this tree are numbers, and numbers are principles.  Now let the tree grow. Let’s consider a Dyad as a primal Division and the mysterious shape of Vesica Pisces.

You have as have all others simply made assignments of this qualitative nature. It is not derived. In mathematics you begin with as few assumptions as possible and see where that leads. Numerology does not derive these qualitative properties it assigns them and there does not appear to be any limit to the number of assignments.

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On 10/13/2017 at 7:34 AM, ChrLzs said:

BTW, the most special number ever is 142857.  Please do not ask why..........

Why?

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Posted (edited)

On 10/16/2017 at 4:01 AM, Mr. Argon said:

If we now connect centers of each circle we have a line.

2.jpg.c93f95b44e94c1d11d774826554b06e3.jpg

 

The intersecting area of two circles is called the Vesica Pisces. Let’s also have a clear notion that neither point nor line in reality have no dimension. No thickness. The line is only a principle of Extension.

The line connecting centres is not the first line you drew. The circle, or circle circumference, was your first line.

Points are dimensionless.

Lines are unidimensional - they have length.

The area within your circle(s) is two dimensional.

Numerology is to mathematics as astrology is to astonomy and astrophysics. 

You say you do not want scientists contributing to this thread so I will stay out from now on.

Edited by Ozymandias

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Try multiplying the number by say 2 or 3.

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On 13/10/2017 at 11:46 PM, Mr. Argon said:

...

Namely I wish to continue without any logic and objectivity and especially without any sort of methodology. I will appeal only to intuiton 

...

Welcome to UM,

So, public school math knowledge paired with your above comment. My intuition tells me that you’ve been sucked in and that numerology is complete BS.

No logic, objectivity or methodology? You  must understand how stupid that sounds to someone looking in from the outside, and even to those who believe in numerology?

My advice would be to realise this sooner rather than later and avoid wasting any time on the subject.

But whatever floats your boat, if it pleases you, go ahead.

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19 hours ago, Mr. Argon said:

Before going further it would perhaps be beneficial to deepen the mystery surrounding this first two numbers. One is incomprehensible. Beginning is incomprehensible if there ever was such a thing as beginning. Let’s try to think about current scientific theory of so called “Big Bang”. From the start the term Big Bang is characteristic for scientific mentality which is completely divorced from any feeling of spirituality and devotion. They just play with nature without any spiritual connection to it whatsoever. To call such an incomprehensible mystery “Big Bang” essentially reveals arrogant and pretentious and profane spirit of modern so called “science”. Basically science from the one side says that something cannot be created out of nothing, but then how to explain the beginning of all things? How did the first thing got into being? There is no answer. Either from the mystics, either from science.

 

So the first number “ONE” is beyond the grasp of the mind. Perhaps the closest we can get in approaching it is to call it eternity and all encompassing Unity. So as explained in a previous post this Unity contemplated and mirrored itself and created Duality – a principle of tension and attraction. This point of creation presents a Fall, but that fall opens the door for infinite potentialities of Creation.

 

One of possible interpretations of Vesica Pisces, the area which represents the intersection of primal division is that the shadow which the Circle emanated represents the feminine aspect of the One. So the intersecting area represents the merging of feminine and masculine aspects and thus the womb of creation. It also represents the area of balance between two opposite poles which would otherwise be in constant tension.

 

When you say the first two numbers which numbers do you mean? Do you mean 1 and 2? You say that "One is incomprehensible" Why? It is the first natural number. It is the generator for the counting numbers. It is the identity element for multiplication. Beginning is not incomprehensible. To say that number one is beyond the grasp of the mind is incorrect. A one is a simple to understand construct.

You mention the big bang concept. The importance of scientific theory is that it is free of the dubious and unsupported claims made by spiritualism. It is independent of the tales du jour. Should science recognize a mistake it changes. Spiritual ideas do whatever they want regardless of reality. The big bang name is not a scientific name. It is a name for the masses. That name is often misinterpreted by people to think it describes an explosion. To call a name arrogant or pretentious is the sort of strange and muddled thinking I expect from the spiritual realm. It is just a label. It could be called any of a number of names that more accurately describe any of the various theories describing cosmological evolution.

One does not mirror itself and create duality. That is an idea external to numbers. One is unrelated to eternity. It is a bounded value.

The vesica pisces is a simple shape. It is the non-null intersection of two disks. A circle is a set of points on a plane a fixed distance from a selected point. A disk is the set of points such that the distance is less than or equal to r, the radius of the circle. Claiming that there are feminine and masculine components to the v.p. is something unrelated to the construction of the v.p. Frankly, it is this unsupported and seemingly irrational assignment that separates mathematics from the numerological efforts. There is no tension. There is no womb of creation. There is an intersection of shapes.

I don't see why I cannot make the following unsupported and seemingly irrational statements about the v.p.

  1. It represents the bonding of sky and earth
  2. It exemplifies the battle between good and evil
  3. It is the color green, a blend of blue and yellow
  4. It is the scent of roses
  5. It is the cacophony of a gamelan orchestra
  6. It spiritualizes heat and cold

Spiritualism can take any direction regardless of reality. It allows for whatever to be stated. Fortunately, science can be correct regardless of the spiritual limitations people impose on themselves and others.

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3 hours ago, Timonthy said:

No logic, objectivity or methodology? You  must understand how stupid that sounds to someone looking in from the outside, and even to those who believe in numerology?

Yes I realize. Big Bang also sounds stupid to me. So what?

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3 hours ago, stereologist said:

When you say the first two numbers which numbers do you mean? Do you mean 1 and 2? You say that "One is incomprehensible" Why?

Because it symbolises the unmanifested eternal Unity from which everything else springs. Can you comprehend a beginning of Universe? If you can, then please enlighten me.

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3 hours ago, Timonthy said:

Welcome to UM,

So, public school math knowledge paired with your above comment. My intuition tells me that you’ve been sucked in and that numerology is complete BS.

I have an intuition that andromedan reptiles are floating around mickey mouse and saying happy new year. So yeah, i must be sucked in.

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15 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

I have an intuition that andromedan reptiles are floating around mickey mouse and saying happy new year. So yeah, i must be sucked in.

That sounds like a fun intuition to have!

Anyways, enjoy your time here. 

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1 minute ago, Timonthy said:

Anyways, enjoy your time here. 

Thank you very much.

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, stereologist said:

Geometry does not have to be linked with numbers. Most proofs in geometry do not involve numbers other than things like the number of sides to a triangle is three. You suggest geometry offers an insight into the order of the universe. I would say that geometry is constructed to mimic the universe. A classic example is the nature of parallel lines. Do they exist? Euclidean geometry says they do. Some geometries say no. Another form says yes, but all intersect at a single point. All of these forms are as far as we know viable.

What I essentialy want to entice with this thread is for ineterested people to start seeing a correlation between geometry, principles and numbers. When I said that I wish to continue without any logic/objectivity/methodology it was only an answer to the first reply to this topic which in a way demanded that I have to "PROVE" something. I used that sort of an answer only to avoid a spirit of senseless pointless arguing. So for the people which have no affinity for such things as numerology would not bother me and similar thinkers with their own perception of numbers which is merely quantitative. You present some valid questions but I will deal with them later. Mainly I don't mind any criticism which is not a complete negation of numerology without any real basis. So please all of you who don't have an affinity to sacred geometry and numerology spare me of pointless negativity.

Edited by Mr. Argon

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4 hours ago, stereologist said:

I don't see why I cannot make the following unsupported and seemingly irrational statements about the v.p.

  1. It represents the bonding of sky and earth
  2. It exemplifies the battle between good and evil
  3. It is the color green, a blend of blue and yellow
  4. It is the scent of roses
  5. It is the cacophony of a gamelan orchestra
  6. It spiritualizes heat and cold

Spiritualism can take any direction regardless of reality. It allows for whatever to be stated. Fortunately, science can be correct regardless of the spiritual limitations people impose on themselves and others.

Have you ever thought that things essentialy have many layers? So perhaps some of your interpretations of Vesica Pisces are correct. Symbolism works on multi-layered level of consciousness. One does not exclude the other - it synthethises. And i would not call that different directions, but rather different perspectives.

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Posted (edited)

39 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

... the first reply to this topic which in a way demanded that I have to "PROVE" something.

Don't misrepresent me.  I raised a number of issues that I see over and over with numerology.  You have addressed none of them.  Instead of telling us you will deal with valid questions, how about you do that first...?

Quote

I used that sort of an answer only to avoid a spirit of senseless pointless arguing.

Yes, pointless if you won't debate the topic and have a pre-determined, yet unsupported, view that you do not want disputed or questioned....

Quote

So for the people which have no affinity for such things as numerology would not bother me and similar thinkers with their own perception of numbers which is merely quantitative.

I have a great love for mathematics, geometry and number patterns.  And I understand where almost all of those patterns, 'coincidences' etc come from, why Pythagoras' theorem works, where the Golden Ratio comes from, why Pi is 'irrational'.  But I have a dislike for waffling handwaves, and am yet to see anything impressive come from numerology, other than its use to make a buck or two from people who probably can't afford it...

Quote

I don't mind any criticism which is not a complete negation of numerology without any real basis. So please all of you who don't have an affinity to sacred geometry and numerology spare me of pointless negativity.

Is this not a public discussion forum?  We didn't raise the claim, you did.  So far, I've given several examples of simple numerology tricks, and also raised the very important issues of cherry picking, confirmation bias and the use of retroactive selection of methodologies based on getting the result you want, rather than from applying a logical process.  Given the virtually infinite ways we can play with numbers, pretty much any result can be gained if you get to select the methodology afterwards and then look for patterns or coincidences. .

And all of that is why I asked that you give examples.  Not flowery prose.  Thus far I am seeing nothing to discuss.

Why would you not just give an example of where you have seen numerology being useful?

 

Anyway, as others have stated, you don't seem to want dissenting views or debate, so I too shall bow out.

 

To Ozy - as Stereo said, grab a calculator and multiply that number (142857) by 2.  Then by 3.  Then by 4, etc.  Also, try dividing any integer you like by 7, and then look carefully at what follows the decimal point...  Spooky, huh!?!

Edited by ChrLzs
to fiks ma bad spelin
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5 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

And all of that is why I asked that you give examples.  Not flowery prose.  Thus far I am seeing nothing to discuss.

Thank you for that. I hope it will remain that way. Respect.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Argon said:

Because it symbolises the unmanifested eternal Unity from which everything else springs. Can you comprehend a beginning of Universe? If you can, then please enlighten me.

What does one have to do with the beginning of the universe? The attributes you are assigning to one have nothing whatsoever to do with the value one. The idea of assigning 1 to a beginning seems to make little sense unless you are using 1 as an ordinal number.

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