Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 5
Nostrodumbass

God's 14 bil. years of violence.

228 posts in this topic

Approximately 14 billion years ago what we know started with a big bang, and so our reality was born in violence. This violence continues even until now, with celestial objects smashing into each other, exploding, imploding and dispersing. Our universe is shaped with/by violence.

Then on some of the relatively stable planets the wonder of life emerges from the violence to bring peace more violence into existence. Small one cell organisms break down materials for sustenance. Multi cell organisms “eat” other living organisms to survive. Complex creatures emerge that destroy plants in violence to survive. Large creatures emerge that eat other creatures, and all this happens through violence.

Nature is a cycle of violence from the start.

Then God creates man, and for the first time we by our consciousness can experience the violence in all its glory and all the physical and emotional pain that goes with it. We are so blessed that we can for the first time appreciate death and its implications for the first time. This gives rise to religions that try to make sense of the violence and resulting death and they bring peace more violence. How many millions of people have suffered due to religion and faith? Even Jesus brought violence by the confusion left in his wake. Looking at the book of Revelation and other prophetic texts there seems to be even more violence in store for us before anything gets better.

What about the future? Scientifically there is no way the universe can exist without the cycle of violence as mentioned at the start. Religiously, even paradise can only exist if God controls everything under threat of violence (threat of eternal death, hell etc.). In my opinion free will and peace (nonviolence) are incompatible.

My point is that the world, whether it is 6000 or billions of years old, whether God exists and created it or it started naturally, has only known violence. My main questions are: If God exists; can he bring lasting, eternal peace while maintaining free will? Can we believe and trust in God despite all this violence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, Nostrodumbass said:

If God exists; can he bring lasting, eternal peace while maintaining free will?

Of course not. That's your job. 

Lasting eternal peace, while maintaining your free will, is your job to do.

On earth (as it is in Heaven), lasting peace will come when God's will is done, instead of yours, which, when God's will is ignored, leads to violence.

There will be no violence when "we believe and trust in God despite all this violence."

It's up to you.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically life is violence. Animals have to eat. Plants have to take from the soil/water/air.

Humans are innately violent, IMHO, and it is religion that was developed to try to curb that. A purpose it still serves to this day. People say some religions are violent, but I'd argue that such religions promote "organized" violence, rather then chaotic violence. At least then there is order/law, and not just the anarchy of one clan/tribe/family taking from, or killing, another in a search for limited resources.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Things are balance; creation and destruction.  That's the circle of life.

If something is destroyed it can still be created again.  We sleep at night, but wake again.  If things just keep growing without destruction they can be like a cancer.

Both creation and destruction are eternal forces and both important.  Reality would not exist without creation.  Destruction allows room for balance and more creation.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are reiterating something I've heard from the Gnostics. Especially, the part about the world being cruel because everything has to eat everything else to survive. To quote Stephan Hoeller, "...so the Great Mantra of the Universe is munch, munch, munch."

In their myths the universe was created by a lower entity that believed itself to be deity (or wanted to set itself up as that). 

True divinity is always trying to remind us that we have the divine spark within us, and that we are more than our Earthly and bodily prisons.

These are obviously myths, but the message is that there is more than this.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like Brudder Bob sez .. emancipate yourselves from mental slavery ... here, brought to you by Brother Cornell ... none but ourselves can free our minds ...

~

 

[00.04:00]

~

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Will Due said:

Of course not. That's your job. 

Lasting eternal peace, while maintaining your free will, is your job to do.

On earth (as it is in Heaven), lasting peace will come when God's will is done, instead of yours, which, when God's will is ignored, leads to violence.

There will be no violence when "we believe and trust in God despite all this violence."

It's up to you.

 

 

Couldn't  have said it better.

6 hours ago, Nostrodumbass said:

If God exists; can he bring lasting, eternal peace while maintaining free will?

I think the problem is we want God to fix all the bad now and then wonder these things.... His will, will be done in His time. People thought these things way back then and had their own opinions and thoughts on how things are, must be and will be. We do not know, only God knows.... this is only my opinion..

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Will Due said:

Of course not. That's your job. 

Lasting eternal peace, while maintaining your free will, is your job to do.

On earth (as it is in Heaven), lasting peace will come when God's will is done, instead of yours, which, when God's will is ignored, leads to violence.

There will be no violence when "we believe and trust in God despite all this violence."

It's up to you.

 

 

I do agree to a degree, and I have thought about it a lot. Maybe my view of God needs to change. Maybe its because I've been taught all my life that people are bad and God is good, and we have to wait for him to rescue the world.

What worries me as that there was violence before people, and probably will be after we are gone. We were just un-lucky enough to be "awake" enough to realize and suffer due to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Spirit Ninja said:

Things are balance; creation and destruction.  That's the circle of life.

If something is destroyed it can still be created again.  We sleep at night, but wake again.  If things just keep growing without destruction they can be like a cancer.

Both creation and destruction are eternal forces and both important.  Reality would not exist without creation.  Destruction allows room for balance and more creation.

When thinking about the devil I used to end up with something similar to your reply. That he/it could be necessary for balance, a natural balance to creation. Something like: How can you have light without darkness? How can you have good without evil?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

You are reiterating something I've heard from the Gnostics. Especially, the part about the world being cruel because everything has to eat everything else to survive. To quote Stephan Hoeller, "...so the Great Mantra of the Universe is munch, munch, munch."

In their myths the universe was created by a lower entity that believed itself to be deity (or wanted to set itself up as that). 

True divinity is always trying to remind us that we have the divine spark within us, and that we are more than our Earthly and bodily prisons.

These are obviously myths, but the message is that there is more than this.

I am familiar with Gnosticism, and seriously considered it as enlightening when I struggled with the violence in the old testament. But where they got the information for their creation story (Sophia etc.) was just too much of a stretch for the rational mind to be satisfied with. Then again we can say the same about a lot of things we believe or have believed in the past. That they were based on myths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, MissCalamity said:

Couldn't  have said it better.

I think the problem is we want God to fix all the bad now and then wonder these things.... His will, will be done in His time. People thought these things way back then and had their own opinions and thoughts on how things are, must be and will be. We do not know, only God knows.... this is only my opinion..

What you are saying is something I believed for a long time, yet now it gives me no comfort. I find it sad that we can say in one thought "His will, will be done in His time" and "We do not know, only God knows...". How do we know his will will be done, if only he knows?

I do agree that we need to address our problems ourselves. I have lost all hope in anything else.

Edited by Nostrodumbass

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Animals have to eat. Plants have to take from the soil/water/air.

I agree.

Quote

Humans are innately violent, IMHO, and it is religion that was developed to try to curb that. A purpose it still serves to this day. People say some religions are violent, but I'd argue that such religions promote "organized" violence, rather then chaotic violence. At least then there is order/law, and not just the anarchy of one clan/tribe/family taking from, or killing, another in a search for limited resources.

Hogwash. Religions are a collective narcissistic entity, a cult of personality formed around it's leader.  The leader is always lawless and insufferably narcissistic.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

I agree.

Hogwash. Religions are a collective narcissistic entity, a cult of personality formed around it's leader.  The leader is always lawless and insufferably narcissistic.

Yeah, if you actually read the gospel you find that's the type of people that hunted out Jesus to get him destroyed.

I've been thinking a lot about the parable, "How can a candle shine without darkness," a lot lately. It came to mind during reading this thread.

I think there's a lot to it. Like in the book Ecclesiastes, where Solomon ponders the vanity of life and God.

I find it beneficial to find the scriptures from all religions around the world. As if they're fragments of some whole tablet.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Religions are a collective narcissistic entity, a cult of personality formed around it's leader. 

You might be right. 

But there is only one religion that isn't built around another's personality. 

True religion.

Quote

true religion is the establishment of an enduring unity in human experience, a lasting peace and a profound assurance. 

true religion is the devotion of the self to the service of meaningful and supreme values.

true religion is the cure for soul hunger, spiritual disquiet, and moral despair.

true religion is the only power which can lastingly increase the responsiveness of one social group to the needs and sufferings of other groups.

True religion is a meaningful way of living dynamically face to face with the commonplace realities of everyday life.

true religion is a matter of personal spiritual experience

True religion is a wholehearted devotion to some reality which the religionist deems to be of supreme value to himself and for all mankind.

true religion is a living love, a life of service

True religion is the act of an individual soul in its self-conscious relations with the Creator

True religion is designed to lessen the strain of existence

true religion is alive. 

Always keep in mind: True religion is to know God as your Father and man as your brother. 

 

All quotes are from the Urantia Book. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

Yeah, if you actually read the gospel you find that's the type of people that hunted out Jesus to get him destroyed.

Hmmmmm....

john-18-36.jpg

Now imagine something something like this:

Edited by Mystic Crusader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Will Due said:

But there is only one religion that isn't built around another's personality. 

True religion.

Quote

true religion is the establishment of an enduring unity in human experience, a lasting peace and a profound assurance. 

true religion is the devotion of the self to the service of meaningful and supreme values.

true religion is the cure for soul hunger, spiritual disquiet, and moral despair.

true religion is the only power which can lastingly increase the responsiveness of one social group to the needs and sufferings of other groups.

True religion is a meaningful way of living dynamically face to face with the commonplace realities of everyday life.

true religion is a matter of personal spiritual experience

True religion is a wholehearted devotion to some reality which the religionist deems to be of supreme value to himself and for all mankind.

true religion is a living love, a life of service

True religion is the act of an individual soul in its self-conscious relations with the Creator

True religion is designed to lessen the strain of existence

true religion is alive. 

Always keep in mind: True religion is to know God as your Father and man as your brother. 

 

All quotes are from the Urantia Book. 

Top-10-Reasons-Why-LMS-Implementation-Fa

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Hmmmmm....

john-18-36.jpg

Now imagine something something like this:

 

Jesus said,

"How many times have I told you that my kingdom is not of this world? This kingdom of heaven which we proclaim is a spiritual brotherhood, and no man rules over it seated upon a material throne. My Father in heaven is the all-wise and the all-powerful Ruler over this spiritual brotherhood of the sons of God on earth. Have I so failed in revealing to you the Father of spirits that you would make a king of his Son in the flesh! Now all of you go hence to your own homes. If you must have a king, let the Father of lights be enthroned in the heart of each of you as the spirit Ruler of all things."

- UB

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

I agree.

Hogwash. Religions are a collective narcissistic entity, a cult of personality formed around it's leader.  The leader is always lawless and insufferably narcissistic.

"Always"... Dealing in definitives means you are always going to be wrong. Wrong to some degree.

Go back into history and tell me how it was civilization came about? What held it together? What enforced morality, and ethics, and values? Religion. 

Religion has always been self serving, in that it always attracts people who wish for power, but this is true of government, education, and basically any human institution also. Humans.... are narcissistic, and always have been. Religion has no monopoly on that.

Still, it served to "civilize" humanity, like education, by passing down ethics/morality/values. The very OPPOSITE of lawless.

You simply have a problem with the ancient ethics/morals/values which the primary religions of today are following.

Edited by DieChecker
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Hmmmmm....

john-18-36.jpg

Now imagine something something like this:

 

Well, it was struggled against. Peter trying to tell Jesus he can't die, then Jesus rebukes him calling him Satan. And the disciple that cuts off the soldier's ear while Jesus is being arrested.

I guess if you're trying to obey the Gospel it comes out as peace. Much like the Tao Teh Ching, which I think also translates to, "The way." Like Jesus Christ, the way and light.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

Humans.... are narcissistic, and always have been. 

So true.

Which is why it's also so true that the goal of life that is embedded at the heart of the Lord's prayer is the only solution to this problem of built-in or born-with narcissism. 

Not my will but "your will be done, on earth (as it is in heaven).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

"Always"... Dealing in definitives means you are always going to be wrong. Wrong to some degree.

Go back into history and tell me how it was civilization came about? What held it together? What enforced morality, and ethics, and values? Religion. 

Religion has always been self serving, in that it always attracts people who wish for power, but this is true of government, education, and basically any human institution also. Humans.... are narcissistic, and always have been. Religion has no monopoly on that.

Still, it served to "civilize" humanity, like education, by passing down ethics/morality/values. The very OPPOSITE of lawless.

You simply have a problem with the ancient ethics/morals/values which the primary religions of today are following.

Ethics and laws are pointless if people are idolizing and emulating an abomination.  Other than Buddhism (which isn't technically a religion) the center of religions seem to always have a "God of War and Erotic Love" as it's moral center. My problem begins with the Fourth Dynasty of Egypt.

It's just freaking stupid I.M.O.

1b7njk.jpg

1u6x42.jpg

Edited by Mystic Crusader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Ethics and laws are pointless if people idolizing and emulating an abomination.  Other than Buddhism (which isn't technically a religion) the center of religions seem to always have a "God of War and Erotic Love" as it's moral center. My problem begins with the Fourth Dynasty of Egypt.

Here's one for you MC

Quote

Jesus had little to say about the social vices of his day; seldom did he make reference to moral delinquency. He was a positive teacher of true virtue. He studiously avoided the negative method of imparting instruction; he refused to advertise evil

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Nostrodumbass said:

Approximately 14 billion years ago what we know started with a big bang, and so our reality was born in violence. This violence continues even until now, with celestial objects smashing into each other, exploding, imploding and dispersing. Our universe is shaped with/by violence.

Your definition of violence is all inclusive of every energy exchange.  It  goes beyond good, evil and free will, is that what you meant? If so, the only solution to violence by your definition  is the balance of all energy;  entropy.  No energy moves, all is balanced at the lowest state.  It is nothingness, no light, no warmth, no life, no god, no thought, no awareness, no being.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Your definition of violence is all inclusive of every energy exchange.  It  goes beyond good, evil and free will, is that what you meant? If so, the only solution to violence by your definition  is the balance of all energy;  entropy.  No energy moves, all is balanced at the lowest state.  It is nothingness, no light, no warmth, no life, no god, no thought, no awareness, no being.  

Thank God reality is the opposite of entropy. Everything is balancing more and more. Becoming more stable and secure.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Will Due said:

Here's one for you MC

 

 

It is the New Testament that has been used for the past 2000 years, not the Urantia book, which has been around for less than a 100 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 5

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.