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Still Waters

Smacking to be banned in Scotland

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Smacking children is to be banned in Scotland, the Scottish government has confirmed.

The move would make the country the first part of the UK to outlaw the physical punishment of children.

Ministers had previously said they did not support parents using physical chastisement, but had "no plans" to bring forward legislation of their own.

But the government has now confirmed it will "ensure" that a bill lodged by Green MSP John Finnie will become law.

His proposals, which were out for consultation over the summer, would give children the same legal protection as adults.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41678797

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New Zealand banned smacking several years ago. There has been no real change in people's behavior. Smacking was never the problem, beating is the problem. New Zealand still has a horrific infant/child death rate.

Sadly no change.

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Posted (edited)

I thought smacking was banned years ago. There you go.

Most of the younger generation who I know with kids would never contenance smacking - so even without legislation I think this is the clear direction that society is moving.

Ooops sentence above just shows my age. younger generation with kids.

Edited by RAyMO
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More silly, nonsensical rules and regulations.

A lack of discipline in today's children is the problem, not too much of it.

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Posted (edited)

What makes you a good or bad parent has almost nonething to do with if you spank your child or not as a form of disipline. 

So much more goes into being a parent then the activist around spanking seem to think does. 

 

Edited by spartan max2
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48 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

More silly, nonsensical rules and regulations.

A lack of discipline in today's children is the problem, not too much of it.

And hitting people is not the way to instill discipline. 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Setton said:

And hitting people is not the way to instill discipline. 

It bloody well is. My parents and grandparents were given the cane and the strap at school. That certainly instilled discipline into them - unlike today's gobby little shites they didn't dare disrespect their teachers, parents and others in authority, because they knew what they'd get. They even used to get slapped across the ear by the local copper.

Edited by Black Monk
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Posted (edited)

I am a true believer that installing the fear of god into a child will always get more results than bringing down the hand of god down upon them. 

Edited by Paulywally
misspelling

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I think when parents smack a child, it shows that they're out of ideas. 

Really, there should be no need. Smacking doesn't teach children anything except that if you're bigger, you can get your way by hurting others. 

We should be careful of the messages we send children. 

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15 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

It bloody well is. My parents and grandparents were given the cane and the strap at school. That certainly instilled discipline into them - unlike today's gobby little shites they didn't dare disrespect their teachers, parents and others in authority, because they knew what they'd get. They even used to get slapped across the ear by the local copper.

Totally wrong. By default, the adult is demonstrating their inability to parent with intelligence and they are passing on the message to the child that the child is only capable of disciplined by physical force alone. 

And, of course, it is child abuse. Ireland banned the smacking of children over two years ago. It is now illegal here.

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3 hours ago, Black Monk said:

It bloody well is. My parents and grandparents were given the cane and the strap at school. That certainly instilled discipline into them - unlike today's gobby little shites they didn't dare disrespect their teachers, parents and others in authority, because they knew what they'd get. They even used to get slapped across the ear by the local copper.

It doesn't instill discipline, it instills fear. That's not the same thing. A half decent parent or teacher never needs to resort to violence. 

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"Smacking banned in Scotland..."

Shame really.... it is just what Nicola Sturgeon desperately needs, and now it's been banned :P 

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2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

"Smacking banned in Scotland..."

Shame really.... it is just what Nicola Sturgeon desperately needs, and now it's been banned :P 

OK, I laughed at that one :-D

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6 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

I think when parents smack a child, it shows that they're out of ideas. 

Really, there should be no need. Smacking doesn't teach children anything except that if you're bigger, you can get your way by hurting others. 

We should be careful of the messages we send children. 

Chaos,  my youngest would not have cared if he got the cane a smack would only make him more defiant.

Removing what he had expected as his God given right to ice-cream though, could reduce him to tears.

 

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20 hours ago, Paulywally said:

I am a true believer that installing the fear of god into a child will always get more results than bringing down the hand of god down upon them. 

There's no point in instilling fear into a child without actually going through with the threat. Otherwise the fear will dissipate.

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On 21/10/2017 at 3:36 PM, Black Monk said:

It bloody well is. My parents and grandparents were given the cane and the strap at school. That certainly instilled discipline into them - unlike today's gobby little shites they didn't dare disrespect their teachers, parents and others in authority, because they knew what they'd get. They even used to get slapped across the ear by the local copper.

Old school Monk, I like it. but in these times of the soft soap approach which as seen anti-social behaviour go through the roof and the total lack of discipline in society; As a result the same 'you cant touch me' - 'i know my rights' attitude as entered the class room.

Most of the teachers these days are p*** poor and are frightened of the teenagers they teach, when it comes to discipline they'd rather befriend them instead of acting like the adult in the room. I witnessed itself in secondary school, a proper inner-city school, i seen lads/girls squaring up to teachers, telling them to f-off, displaying the total lack of respect they show at home or out on the street. - The problem with these kids no-one in their lives as ever stood up to them and told them no for many the first person that showed authority was the teacher or police officer. not today, the teachers have given up, and the police have had their hands tied and wider society is frightened to say boo to them in case the little Philadelphia lawyers shout, 'offended' 'i know my rights' or pull out a gun.

 

 

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Soon we shall see new government offices around the world, forming with intention to educate people about how we should raise our children. It will be easy life when every part of it is dictated by someone... Or will it be?

We are not far from that.

As for smacking generally, it is heavenly tool in many situations while beating up is never the answer and is always counter productive with possibility to harm someone greatly, both physically and mentally. 

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On 10/21/2017 at 4:36 PM, Black Monk said:

It bloody well is. My parents and grandparents were given the cane and the strap at school. That certainly instilled discipline into them - unlike today's gobby little shites they didn't dare disrespect their teachers, parents and others in authority, because they knew what they'd get. They even used to get slapped across the ear by the local copper.

I still remember army belt and how does it feel on my skin. What i learned from it was priceless, it saved my head not only at that time but after too.

Another time when war was going to end, possibly early 1995, i got present from Egyptian troops. They stopped their APC and called me in and i was happy since Egyptians were known for their generosity.

On my surprise i got packed chicken and two big packages of small jam. There i was, happy and going home to bring those goods. Expected my father to be happy and supportive but... He actually meet me with anger and hit me few times then said '' go outside to your friends and share everything you got with them equally then come back ''.

Priceless lesson, but nowadays my father could end up in jail for being great father.

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If you must rely on hitting to explain your position... you are weak and your position is lamed by your laziness or your inability to communicate without blunt violence.  Harmless cuffing is little more than the village bully wanting to be lazily left alone instead of engage in a connection to resolve an  issue.

My Father not only never raised his hand to smack me, he never spoke unkindly about me, nor shouted... ever. 

He explained and taught.  He guided.  And he was always involved and made certain I understood the underlying reasons for what he taught.

 

My wife's Father had the 'three levels of truth' and would do whatever it took to 'set you straight'.

Of course... it was always 'his truth'.  Conveniently.

He would tell you the truth.

If you did not understand it... he would shout it at you.

if you still did not understand it... he would hit it into you.

Small minds, weak skills and low character are all part and parcel to smacking the truth into one's children.

Guess which Grandfather got to experience his grandchild?  That other old military guy still has 'his truth'... yup he and his truth are all alone now, no one in the family will allow him near. 

 

Many will strain to hear a whisper, who ignore a shout.  If your message needs to be conveyed by violence, particularly to a developing mind and character... perhaps your message is weak, or your skills lacking.

 

 

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My parents never hit us and we were still terrified of them...in a we-know-whatever-punishment-they-deem-appropriate-they-will certainly-go-thru-with kinda way.... The problem today is parents are too lazy or maybe too tired to go thru with their punishments. And they often would rather be a friend and "liked" than be seen as a parent and old.

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On 10/21/2017 at 4:38 AM, Black Monk said:

More silly, nonsensical rules and regulations.

A lack of discipline in today's children is the problem, not too much of it.

Discipline shares a root with disciple does it not?  It refers to teaching.  I would agree that a lack of discipline is a problem with both children and adults, but that means teaching not smacking.  Check out an animal training class sometime.  Best results are not achieved by smacking.  That does not mean subject are not taught the proper way to do things unfailingly, immediately, and every time.  The secret is that it takes effort to achieve results. The same goes for people believe it or not.  Many adults are not willing to take the time with their children to make them disciples.  What did you learn from people that beat you up?  Fear and how to be a bully to weaker individuals?  Don't let children run wild or do what they want, teach them the proper way to behave.

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I should add that love and reward is the most effective way to influence behavior.  I will also walk back the comment about children running wild. That sounds too structured and suffocating; it won't result in creative, independent, happy adults.  The proper way to behave still has room for some wild and crazy and individual behavior.

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