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AnchorSteam

Raqqa fell today

30 posts in this topic

 

That is a deliberate rip-off of "Rome fell today", something people barely noticed at the time because it happened the same day that D-Day did.

Actually, it was more like yesterday. The HQ was taken, which was located inside a hospital ... honestly, where else would ISIS have put their headquarters?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64xwoc

 

It finally happened.
Will Turkey still buy oil from ISIS?
Will ISIS collapse into another rootless Terrorist gang?

I was just wondering, is anyone interested?

 

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Good, ISIS are losers. Eventually no one is going to want to be affiliated with these losers. This should have been done years ago, ISIS never should have been allowed to have a Caliphate in the first place.

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2 hours ago, Lilly said:

Good, ISIS are losers. Eventually no one is going to want to be affiliated with these losers. This should have been done years ago, ISIS never should have been allowed to have a Caliphate in the first place.

 

Buuuuuut... that's what "the West" wanted, isn't it?...

 

Report-00.thumb.jpg.97e5c7ad8ca23949a3361cef60bcb7cc.jpg

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Pg.-291-Pgs.-287-293-JW-v-DOD-and-State-14-812-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

(PDF File)

- "Which is pretty well exactly what happened two years later. The report isn’t a policy document. It’s heavily redacted and there are ambiguities in the language. But the implications are clear enough. A year into the Syrian rebellion, the US and its allies weren’t only supporting and arming an opposition they knew to be dominated by extreme sectarian groups; they were prepared to countenance the creation of some sort of “Islamic state” – despite the “grave danger” to Iraq’s unity – as a Sunni buffer to weaken Syria."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

 

This is all on Obama's watch.

It took 2 terms of Reagan/Bush, then 1 term of Bush, to originate Al Qaeda out of it's Mujahedin form, with 2 terms of "incubation" in the Balkans under Clinton, followed by 2 terms of Bush-lite, for Al Qaeda to reach it's pinnacle and global prominence,

ISIS managed to do all that, and MORE, on only 2 terms of Obummer :no:

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

 


I was just wondering, is anyone interested?

 

It's interesting but we know that isn't really sustainable. The Kurds are now acting in Sunni Arab areas. The Syrian Army isn't far from Raqqa either. Will the various Kurdish groups forming what is known as the ''SDF'' eventually fracture? Many questions remain unanswered.

Edited by TruthSeeker_

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17 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Will Turkey still buy oil from ISIS?

It's not just Turkey which buys that oil but answer is yes, the oil will keep flowing and whichever terrorist group controls those oil fields it will have a piece of the cake. Situation which is more evident in Lybia today where many groups clash with each other.

In Syria, bmo, Kurds will cooperate with Assad, as they have done already in numerous ocassions especially from early stages of this foreign induced war on Syria when SAA was providing arms and surveilance data to Kurds. It's realistic to expect such resolution which will have Syrian sovereignity respected rather than Kirkuk 2 happening to Kurds in Syria.

17 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Will ISIS collapse into another rootless Terrorist gang?

Assad explained it long ago, '' isis without international support is nothing and they are as strong as support for them from other countries is ''. Not exact words but that is reality.

Interesting in Raqqa is that Kurds are not even majority in the region, far from that. It's hard for me to find demographic picture of population in Raqqa and only thing i've found in half hour search is this link which show population over map : LINK can't say how accurate it is.

Wikipedia used to have good information about these things but for Syria right now those pages do not say a lot. Especially not about contested areas.

In 2013, short after Assad loyalists were defeated in Raqqa, Al Nusra Front has set up sharia court, LINK, tactic which was used not only in Raqqa but in majority of 'rebel' held Syria after terrorists managed to seize territory. It was sad day for civilized life in Raqqa.

There are many testimonies by former terrorists ( see Assad amnesty program ) who felt decieved by isis and confirmed that not only it was oil which was shipped over Turkey but also resources ( raw and produced ) from Syrian industry, telecommunication equipment... It's long list but to finance over 6 years of war there has to be a lot of income.

Only thing which i have learned about whole isis subject is that terrorists can't hold on without international support. After Russia got involved in Syria since 2015 in less than two years we witness removal of isis from Syria. That is important to notice and keep in mind in every talk about future of isis, future which is clear to be isis free but problem is that other terrorist groups have profited a lot from this whole ' war on terror ', they profit from military training provided to them, profit in equipment and money.

After Al Nusra HQ was liberated in Aleppo many evidences were found. They stashed medicine and white helmets outpost was in that HQ which was held by Al Nusra. Medicine which Syrian civilians lacked. LINK

So, problem with isis is not isis by itself but support which they get, directly or indirectly. It is well known that some parties have stated that '' isis is better neighbour than Assad '' and that untill Assad is gone there will be isis in Syria ( mainly reports from before Russian intervention, around 2015 and there are many of those articles, poped out as shrooms on the rain ).

So, i do not see terror to stop soon, not untill there will be one big world coalition made to fight against those barbarians as whole, not to label some of them as good and others as bad depending of geo political needs. Mark them all as bad and get it done. Whole situation also points out differences between terrorists and legitimate ressistance forces such as Hezbollah or Hamas.

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This is what happens after 4 months of day and night bombing. City is finally 'liberated'. Results of tactics used in actions are evident, only good thing is that isis is gone but at what cost...

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I think this cancer will simply shift to another target.  I'm glad that the survivors there may finally have a chance to rebuild their lives - at least for awhile :( 

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ah yes.

 

kings at last.

kings of rubble

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Posted (edited)

On 10/22/2017 at 4:33 AM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

This is what happens after 4 months of day and night bombing. City is finally 'liberated'. Results of tactics used in actions are evident, only good thing is that isis is gone but at what cost...

You could have said the same thing about London in WWII....and Hitler is dead, but at what cost?   What does that even mean?  You have guys raping little girls, cutting off heads left and right, terrorizing anyone who happened to live in the territory they rolled into...complete total Tyranny....but you ask at what cost?  Because the city is destroyed?  Take a couple of D-10 Caterpillars and we can clean up that mess in an afternoon or three.

I probably just misinterpreted what you were trying to say...I apologize.

Edited by joc
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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, joc said:

You could have said the same thing about London in WWII

I could but i would be making grand mistake if i do that, as you just did. For many reasons but enough to mention is simple question.

This video shows what does Deir ez Zor look like after liberation ( which isn't completely liberated yet ).

I also didn't completely got your point here but thing is, we have to focus on the event and what has lead to it when it comes to modern warfare. Using certain high yielding bombs in urban area is not how army should approach in fight vs terrorists if their goal is to liberate it for purpose of civil life to continue.

And this shows Mosul after 'liberation' by Iraqi army and their supporters who see liberation and total destruction as equal.

Just get your facts straight my friend, those caterpillars would not be needed if there was desire to fight for civilians rather than for ones own agenda.

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot

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On 10/22/2017 at 2:35 PM, and then said:

I think this cancer will simply shift to another target.  I'm glad that the survivors there may finally have a chance to rebuild their lives - at least for awhile :( 

I am not sure that civilians are main concern of anyone in this region. There is just not enough diplomatic effort man i mean just look at Iraq and Kurds now, fighting ( ocassional ) started, people got injured ( Kirkuk area ) and now all of that for what? Because one man has wild dream of turning autonomy into sovereign state contrary to every law ever made. 

In SDF held refugee camp in Syria, used by Syrian civilians, there are numerous violations of human rights.LINK ( there are other articles just search last 24h, alto there were many cases over years all linked to SDF abuse of Syrians ) 

People are not allowed to leave camp and they protested massively. Protest was stopped by using machine gun fire into the air.

All of that happens to Syrians in Syria. In some cities it will be harder to rebuild than to make new city on other location. From power lines over to water system and communication infrastructure... Everything is gone.

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21 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

I could but i would be making grand mistake if i do that, as you just did. For many reasons but enough to mention is simple question.

This video shows what does Deir ez Zor look like after liberation ( which isn't completely liberated yet ).

I also didn't completely got your point here but thing is, we have to focus on the event and what has lead to it when it comes to modern warfare. Using certain high yielding bombs in urban area is not how army should approach in fight vs terrorists if their goal is to liberate it for purpose of civil life to continue.

And this shows Mosul after 'liberation' by Iraqi army and their supporters who see liberation and total destruction as equal.

Just get your facts straight my friend, those caterpillars would not be needed if there was desire to fight for civilians rather than for ones own agenda.

You have made a very good point!  And I concur.  Which makes me think....didn't American soldiers originally take Mosul...pretty much one building at a time without destroying the entire city?   It seems like the Iraqis just pinpointed where the snipers were and called in the bombers.  One way to do it I suppose...but you are right...at a very high cost...

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What are you proposing Sir Smokealot ? That ISIS should have been allowed to remain, and kill of the civilians ?

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1 minute ago, joc said:

You have made a very good point!  And I concur.  Which makes me think....didn't American soldiers originally take Mosul...pretty much one building at a time without destroying the entire city?   It seems like the Iraqis just pinpointed where the snipers were and called in the bombers.  One way to do it I suppose...but you are right...at a very high cost...

Amount of destruction which is seen is surely only possible by mentioned high yielding bombs and cruise missiles. I lived under sieged city for about 4 and half years and many bombs were constantly falling down but... They were fireworks when compared to this technology of today ( mostly mortar shells, artillery and tank fire ). I remember only of one time when modified rocket ( some 2t explosives ) was launched at Veterinary Center near my apartment... Every building was shaking for long time after that bomb struck ground and that bomb was surely much weaker than those used today. So, by chosing to use such tools one decide to neglect it's effects.

Don't get me wrong i do not and i can't blame only one side here because many countries have their hands dirty but how this is presented in medias it is disgusting, journalists sing praises for liberations when it is clear that was destruction rather than having anyhting to do with liberation. It wasn't national army but isis on the other side.

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

What are you proposing Sir Smokealot ? That ISIS should have been allowed to remain, and kill of the civilians ?

At least action could be done in such way so that there are few buildings left as seen was done by SAA in Deir ez Zor and even in Aleppo which is in ruins for large part but not even close to what was seen in Raqqa for example. Keep in mind that Aleppo was, for long time, hit by SDF mortars which invoked action by SAA, action which concerned some 200,000 civilians who were enclosed.

[edit] But in Raqqa civilians were killed in mass by bombs. In last 10 days there were around three events in which 80 or more civilians died in one bombing. 80. That many do not die in army on first line in month of fighting.

While i can agree that anything is better than isis i also believe that i can not make decision for civilians, decision of if they will bend to their knees and live under isis or get bombed to death to make their agony stop. We can't make that decision. Where will they go? I had options in Sarajevo after the war, majority of buildings were standing but what options are there now in Mosul or Raqqa?

 

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot

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Hmm... I fear that the Iraqi army may not have the same respect for civilians as most "Western" armies would have. (not that THEY always get it right either).

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1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... I fear that the Iraqi army may not have the same respect for civilians as most "Western" armies would have. (not that THEY always get it right either).

Solution to Iraqi and Kurdish problem was very easy but things have gone too far for it to be made. It is realistic possibility. 

Generally tho, civilians are nothing across the world, nothing, since WW2. And what is learned from ''western war efforts'' is that all we hear are different definitions which are made to make brutal killings of hundreds of civilians sound more civilized. That's ridiculous when you look at it, hence, in it's essence, belief that western armies have respect for civilians. 

Every regime, army, madman etc they all had some respect for civilians and by itself that is very relative concept to justify anything on.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Don't get me wrong i do not and i can't blame only one side here because many countries have their hands dirty but how this is presented in medias it is disgusting, journalists sing praises for liberations when it is clear that was destruction rather than having anyhting to do with liberation. It wasn't national army but isis on the other side.

You don't see any Syrian flags flying over Raqqa. Was the city really 'liberated' (returned to it's previous state), or was it 'taken over' by other groups. While anything is better than ISIS, I have some concerns about the PYD. They are a radical Kurdish leftist entity and not white as snow.

Edited by TruthSeeker_

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In case any of you are wondering about the True nature of ISIS -

 

Secrets of the Black Stadium: In Raqqa, Inside ISIS’ House of Horror

https://www.thedailybeast.com/secrets-of-the-black-stadium-in-raqqa-inside-isis-house-of-horror

 

16 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Solution to Iraqi and Kurdish problem was very easy but things have gone too far for it to be made. It is realistic possibility. 

 

This, among other sentances you are posting, make no grammatical sense. 

16 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Every regime, army, madman etc they all had some respect for civilians and by itself that is very relative concept to justify anything on.

Honestly... wtf?

It appears that you are saying that everyone from Caligula to Genghis Khan to Pol Pot all held life in higher regard than the US and its allies do, currently. 

I guess you believe it, but did you really intend to let that slip out? 

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3 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

This, among other sentances you are posting, make no grammatical sense. 

I've said it is resonable to expect what RoofGardener has said. The fact that English is not my main language makes my formulation of sentences bad but we can understand eachother enough to discuss things. How does my bad English disprove the essence of my claims? Those two are not related but feel free to make connections as much as you like.

3 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

It appears that you are saying that everyone from Caligula to Genghis Khan to Pol Pot all held life in higher regard than the US and its allies do, currently. 

It appears to you because you see what you like but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are correct. You have totally missed the point of this discussion by focusing on isis.

Actually, it ain't about isis in Raqqa anymore.

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13 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

You don't see any Syrian flags flying over Raqqa. Was the city really 'liberated' (returned to it's previous state), or was it 'taken over' by other groups. While anything is better than ISIS, I have some concerns about the PYD. They are a radical Kurdish leftist entity and not white as snow.

In Iraq, Kurds have called for '' freezing of independence vote results and opening talks with government under Iraq constitution '' so let's hope that we shall see something similar in Syria. Thing is, they can't survive if they turn all neighbours agains them, hence changed approach of Iraqi Kurds. To survive when everyone is against you well only Israel managed to do that because of unconditional western support and enormous amount of money. Kurds do not have that luxury.

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9 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

 The fact that English is not my main language makes my formulation of sentences bad but we can understand eachother enough to discuss things. How does my bad English disprove the essence of my claims?

It makes it very hard to understand you.

And, no, I didn't know about the trouble with English.... I was actually making an assumption based on your nick.

9 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

 

Actually, it ain't about isis in Raqqa anymore.

But ... that's the subject of the thread.  :wacko:

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15 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

It makes it very hard to understand you.

I'm sorry that you find it hard to read my posts but i am Bosnian and my brain formulates sentences as i speak them in my native language but i try to, as much as i can, to make those sentences feel English. If only i had more chances to speak English but since 2012 and my return from Spain i haven't really had chance to improve.

16 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

And, no, I didn't know about the trouble with English.... I was actually making an assumption based on your nick.

Oh, about my nick, 'aLot' looks nicer than 'a Lot' in nick name, pure decoration if that is what you mean :D

16 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

But ... that's the subject of the thread.

Of course, that is subject of the thread but Raqqa is 'liberated' and what is left of Raqqa after bombing tactics were used to 'liberate' it, that is what i was going in to.

Total destruction of infrastructure can't be described as liberation because it is always possible to do things differently especially in the war against terrorists and here we see that what happens is to weaken Syria as much as possible. 

I recommend you to watch Assad speech in Arab nations in 2003. Speech in which he predicted even partition of Iraq as means to give legitimacy to Israel ( truth to be told it's Israel who support Kurds independence exactly for what Assad has said back then ).

So, this ain't about Syrian or Iraqi freedom at all, hence such destruction in areas 'liberated' by western backed coalition. 

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Perhaps they felt they had to move quickly, in order to forestall ISIS just murdering all of the civilians ?

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8 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

So, this ain't about Syrian or Iraqi freedom at all, hence such destruction in areas 'liberated' by western backed coalition. 

(1) Ah, I see. Always the civilians, who ISIS use as human shields and are supposedly innocent of all and any possible misdeeds and can't ever be thought of as supporting ISIS in any way.... eh?

I call BS on that. What about the saying that "We get the Government we deserve"?

 

(2) there is a military axiom that says something to the effect that the more casualties the enemy sustain, the fewer YOUR side will take. Maybe it is out-dated, sooner or later all military tactics have to evolve, but nobody has thought of a good replacement yet.

Have you got one?

 

I might....

There is no doubt that eliminating the Leadership is key, but the way it is done is not working very well. First, you have to figure out who it is, then you have to use a bomb or a missile to kill them.

Why? 

Well, we have to because assassination is such a baaad word, can't do that or somebody in the UN will call you nasty names.

:blink:

No joke, things are THAT political, and so collateral damage to the Nth-degree has become that acceptable. I better cut this short, it makes me too angry... but I don't recall any collateral damage when bad guys from Attila the Hun to Che' Guevara were taken out by pretty young girls that were more clever than they looked.

And no, that is not fighting terror with terror or becoming the monster, it is taking out the handful of bad actors without destroying the entire theater. 

Agreed?

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