jerhiko Posted October 21, 2017 #1 Share Posted October 21, 2017 We moved to the Cleveland area about two years ago. Our home sits on a fairly busy incoming flight path for Hopkins Airport. I have always been a major airplane geek and feel over the past two years I have paid fairly close attention to the sky. This evening I noticed a helicopter, by sound first, due to its extreme height. I thought the height of its flight path was odd but quickly discounted it. By the time the sun set this evening I have seen two more. Extremely high altitude for a typical helicopter flight. I know Chinooks fly fairly high. This was much higher than that. I'm not a conspiracy theory nut but i really thought this was odd. I would love some thoughts on what was up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted October 21, 2017 #2 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Ok... so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.ZZ. Posted October 22, 2017 #3 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Flight for life choppers taking victims of an accident to the hospital? They had orders to avoid the airport's air space? Edited October 22, 2017 by .ZZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerhiko Posted October 22, 2017 Author #4 Share Posted October 22, 2017 I live a few blocks from the nearest life flight pad. I have never seen helicopters fly that high of of a flight path. It must have been a very long distance trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorg Posted October 22, 2017 #5 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Airports have airspace like ZZ said. Although the configuration of each Class C airspace area is individually tailored, the airspace usually consists of a 5 NM radius core surface area that extends from the surface up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation, and a 10 NM radius shelf area that extends no lower than 1,200 feet up to 4,000 feet above airport elevation. https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/alc/course_content.aspx?cID=42&sID=505&preview=true If they aren't cleared through the airports airspace, they must fly around or over it. It is not uncommon for helicopters to fly 10,000 + feet. It's just that helicopters are less common than airplanes, therefore these things just aren't seen as much, but certainly not unheard of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted October 22, 2017 #6 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Also did you check Flightradar24/FlightAware or anything at the time? They may have been visible on the app. I’m not sure how easy it would be to try to find helicopter flights in the past on those sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted October 22, 2017 #7 Share Posted October 22, 2017 OP, can you explain how you guessed the altitude? That is an exceptionally difficult thing to do, and it usually involves assumptions that can be unreliable - eg amount of haze, perceived height for the angular speed, guessed height based on a size estimate of the craft... Please tell us (and explain in detail how you got to) whatever height range you are claiming. But you're right - choppers usually stay well under 8000 feet or so - they don't work well in thinner air. If you can catch it again, try recording it as a movie (do not use digital zoom) and then post the footage and tell us what sort of camera/phone. We can then try to work out a range..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted October 22, 2017 #8 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, jerhiko said: We moved to the Cleveland area about two years ago. Our home sits on a fairly busy incoming flight path for Hopkins Airport. I have always been a major airplane geek and feel over the past two years I have paid fairly close attention to the sky. This evening I noticed a helicopter, by sound first, due to its extreme height. I thought the height of its flight path was odd but quickly discounted it. By the time the sun set this evening I have seen two more. Extremely high altitude for a typical helicopter flight. I know Chinooks fly fairly high. This was much higher than that. I'm not a conspiracy theory nut but i really thought this was odd. I would love some thoughts on what was up. Can you make a stab at trying to identify them? The Chinook can get up to 20,000 ft if it makes the effort, but they're very easily recognizable. The Blackhawk can just about make that height too. Edited October 22, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted October 22, 2017 #9 Share Posted October 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Timonthy said: Also did you check Flightradar24/FlightAware or anything at the time? They may have been visible on the app. I’m not sure how easy it would be to try to find helicopter flights in the past on those sites. Civil craft might (although not all private aircraft are), but military aircraft usually won't show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted October 22, 2017 #10 Share Posted October 22, 2017 7 hours ago, jerhiko said: We moved to the Cleveland area about two years ago. Our home sits on a fairly busy incoming flight path for Hopkins Airport. I have always been a major airplane geek and feel over the past two years I have paid fairly close attention to the sky. This evening I noticed a helicopter, by sound first, due to its extreme height. I thought the height of its flight path was odd but quickly discounted it. By the time the sun set this evening I have seen two more. Extremely high altitude for a typical helicopter flight. I know Chinooks fly fairly high. This was much higher than that. I'm not a conspiracy theory nut but i really thought this was odd. I would love some thoughts on what was up. Was there anything unusual about the sound ? I would have thought that a high-altittude (however you define that) helicopter would have sounded kinda muted, if it even made any audible noise at all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redefining Success Posted October 22, 2017 #11 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Training exercise, Heli med evac, avoiding air space? All plausible explanations. Was trundling up the M61 in Lancashire the other week and heard a very distinct noise, thought I had a blow out at first, eventually spotted a Chinook at, a very rough guess, about 200 - 500 ft, was an awesome sight, there's been an increase in military convoys aswell, usually 1 a week upto 3-4 a week. Felt sorry for the guys in the WMIK's! Keep an eye out for more helicopters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt221 Posted October 22, 2017 #12 Share Posted October 22, 2017 We often get the Apache fly over us sometimes it's not much above roof hight,other times it just a little spec, apparently it can fly at about 25000 ft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted October 22, 2017 #13 Share Posted October 22, 2017 29 minutes ago, Matt221 said: We often get the Apache fly over us sometimes it's not much above roof hight,other times it just a little spec, apparently it can fly at about 25000 ft 21000 according to the Wookipedia. That seems to be about the maximum that can be expected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerhiko Posted October 22, 2017 Author #14 Share Posted October 22, 2017 I have seen Apaches on high flight paths a few times in the past now that you mention it. These were not Apaches or Chinooks, could have possible been blackhawks I suppose. Didn't sound like Huey's. My only way to gauge "high altitude" is by saying they were much higher than normal in my opinion. Probably nothing. And probably nothing that deserved a post here. It just struck me very odd last night and was hoping to hear some logical reason for such high helicopter flight paths. Believe it or not, there is quite a bit of air traffic over Cleveland and I was just not accustomed to seeing this. Especially three over a hour and a half period. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted October 22, 2017 #15 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Heli altitude record: Quote About thirty years after the record set by Jean Boulet on a SA315 B “Lama” helicopter, Fred North, professional pilot, takes an AS 350 B2 “Squirrel” to the fantastic altitude of 12954 m link Edited October 22, 2017 by toast 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted October 22, 2017 #16 Share Posted October 22, 2017 34 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said: Civil craft might (although not all private aircraft are), but military aircraft usually won't show. Except when they f up and leave their adsb transmitters on. Which has happened during missions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZDZ Posted October 23, 2017 #17 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I've seen this before OP, twice. It was about eight years ago, a couple weeks apart. Each time, the faint sound of a helicopter caught my attention so I looked for, found, then became astonished at how high up they were. I had no idea they could fly that high. Both times they flew over me moving very slowly to the south. I watched until they were just a tiny dot some six or seven miles downrange of me when they suddenly went into a hover and just sat there for about thirty minutes before moving off to the East. Never found out anything about them, or what their mission may have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted October 25, 2017 #18 Share Posted October 25, 2017 On 10/22/2017 at 11:27 PM, Timonthy said: Except when they f up and leave their adsb transmitters on. Which has happened during missions. I've seen on Flightradar an RAF A330 Voyager flying what looked very much like an air-to-air refuelling pattern just off the coast of Syria. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted October 25, 2017 #19 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Flightradar is changing their systems to include many (but not all) military aircraft. Don't have time now, but it's something to do with 'MLAT' being added so it's not just the 'normal' ADS-B transponders... I'm out of my depth here - Merc, where are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted October 26, 2017 #20 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Oops, I'm tired... 4 hours ago, ChrLzs said: Flightradar FlightAware is changing their systems to include many (but not all) military aircraft. Don't have time now, but it's something to do with 'MLAT' being added so it's not just the 'normal' ADS-B transponders... I'm out of my depth here - Merc, where are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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