AI - As a new God

[Rlyeh]

8 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

They are certainly going to help. But will that end suffering? Will creating 'material utopia' on Earth ultimately make humanity better? Doubtful.

Despite what New age and orthodox haters might say, the gnostic way, not ''pantheism'' or ''humanism'' is the most positive way. After all, it's only when you realize how bad things are, how low you've come down in the chain of being of the Neoplatonist that we will get off our monkey as**s and do something about it. Not get lulled by your new Iphone, Netflix binge watching, matting with the next-door neighbor or the useless quote: ''Make the best of it'' attitude that has infected most faith. Like they say in AA: ''You know you've hit rock-bottom when you stop digging''. Unfortunality, humanity, as a collective, isn't close to letting go of their shovels.

Besides fan-fiction what has gnosticism actually achieved?

[Mr Walker]

21 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

So a computer nerd wants to create a new God by using Artificial Intelligence.

Are you sencing my perspective yet? 

Antony Levandowski, a silicon valley type, wants to create a super computer with AI to sort out all our problems, an actual Godhead that we can worship! This guy is into driverless cars and the Internet of things, which leads onto transhumanism. And something called the Singularity.

So this isn't just about religion but the whole life experience of every human being on the planet.

So it seems completley absurd that anyone could think that a machine could be God. For one there is no Conscousness, there are no feelings and there isn't a Life Force either.

To be honest, I don't know too much about this - I'm not sure anybody does, like, what is the Singularity exactly and how exactly are we going to upload our minds into a computer??

Fair enough, if a super AI computer can work out in a logical and reasonable way the problems of the world, then fine. But let's get something straight, no Conscousness, no heart, no feelings, no life, and absolutley 100% guaranteed, no God.

Dont get me wrong, I not against computers or computer geeks per se, but as with any new technology there is a risk of it being used against us instead of it being applied to help uplift us. To which, I see the ultimate goal as being total control over every aspect of Humanity. Driverless cars in a cashless society with an "Internet of things" and this Trans-Humanist Agenda is never going to succeed.

But there is no guarantee that an artificial intelligence will not have self aware  consciousness, feelings, life, and even a belief in gods. These aren't magical properties, and  if we make an artificial consciousness like a human's, then it will be the same as a humans, with the same qualities. Imagine your consciousness, in a machine rather than in your body, yet otherwise still your mind and consciousness.  Machine consciousness can be just like your own.  . 

What is more likely is a melding of human and artificial eg technologies that plug into, or operate wirelessly, via a human mind  eg they read your biostatistics and provide medication or stimuli etc., as your body requires them, or the y cause nano machines in your body to start and stop operations to heal or to cleanse your body. There has already been some uploading of human thoughts into computers using algorithms in the computer to match/replicate the neural electro- chemical basis for human thoughts  We already have thought operated vehicles, machines, and exoskeletons for the disabled  One day your mind will link to other artificial minds in technology  just to do everyday things around the house or at work,  and when i say one day, i mean within the next 10 to 20 years   In scientific terms it is already old technology and has been done successfully with individuals for over a decade. 

In 2009 Alex Blainey, an independent researcher based in the UK, successfully used the Emotiv EPOC to control a 5 axis robot arm.^[65] He then went on to make several demonstration mind controlled wheelchairs and home automation that could be operated by people with limited or no motor control such as those with paraplegia and cerebral palsy.

even telepathy has been achieved  

In a $6.3 million Army initiative to invent devices for telepathic communication, Gerwin Schalk, underwritten in a $2.2 million grant, found that it is possible to use ECoG signals to discriminate the vowels and consonants embedded in spoken and in imagined words. The results shed light on the distinct mechanisms associated with production of vowels and consonants, and could provide the basis for brain-based communication using imagined speech.^[50][95]

In 2002 Kevin Warwick, had an array of 100 electrodes fired into his nervous system in order to link his nervous system into the Internet to investigate enhancement possibilities. With this in place Warwick successfully carried out a series of experiments. With electrodes also implanted into his wife's nervous system, they conducted the first direct electronic communication experiment between the nervous systems of two humans.^{[96][97][98][99]}

On 3 September 2014, scientists reported that direct communication between human brains was possible over extended distances through Internet transmission of EEG signals.^[104][105]

In March and in May 2014 a study conducted by Dipartimento di Psicologia Generale – Università di Padova, EVANLAB – Firenze, LiquidWeb s.r.l. company and Dipartimento di Ingegneria e Architettura – Università di Trieste, reports confirmatory results analyzing the EEG activity of two human partners spatially separated approximately 190 km apart when one member of the pair receives the stimulation and the second one is connected only mentally with the first.^[106][107]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain–computer_interface}

DARPA is doing a lot of this sort of work 

More than 3,220km away, another kind of human-machine collaboration unfolds at the University of Utah as Greg Clark asks Doug Fleenor to reach out and touch the image of a wooden door on a computer monitor.Clark knows that Fleenor cannot physically touch this or any other object; Fleenor lost both his hands in a near-fatal electrical accident 25 years ago. But Fleenor's arm has a chip in it that communicates with the computer, so when he moves his arm the image of a hand on the monitor also moves. He's done this before - raising his arm, watching the cartoon hand move in sync and seemingly stroke 
the face of the door - but this time it's different. He lurches back and gasps. "That is so cool!" he blurts.

What's so cool is that as he guides his virtual hand across that virtual plank, he literally, biologically and neurologically, feels its wooden surface. Thanks to some new software and an array of fine electrical connections between another embedded chip and the nerves running up his arm to his brain, he experiences a synthesised sensation of touch and texture indistinguishable from a tactile event.

For someone who hasn't actually touched anything with his hands for a quarter of a century, this is a transcendent moment - one that points to a remarkable future that is now becoming real… and in Fleenor's case, even tangible.

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/darpa-arati-prabhakar-humans-machines

More broadly, it's difficult to find a programme at DARPA today that doesn't at some level aim to take advantage of a melding of human and computer traits and skill sets, from the design of novel synthetic chemicals, to the architecting of elaborate structures made possible by the advent of 3D additive manufacturing methods, to the command and control of unmanned aerial systems and management of the spectrum in highly congested communications environments.

As to the general question ; can a machine think and be conscious just like a human mind?

 

The philosophy of artificial intelligence attempts to answer such questions as follows:^[1]

• Can a machine act intelligently? Can it solve any problem that a person would solve by thinking?
• Are human intelligence and machine intelligence the same? Is the human brain essentially a computer?
• Can a machine have a mind, mental states, and consciousness in the same way that a human being can? Can it feel how things are?

These three questions reflect the divergent interests of AI researchers, linguists, cognitive scientists and philosophers respectively. The scientific answers to these questions depend on the definition of "intelligence" and "consciousness" and exactly which "machines" are under discussion.

Important propositions in the philosophy of AI include:

• Turing's "polite convention": If a machine behaves as intelligently as a human being, then it is as intelligent as a human being.^[2]
• The Dartmouth proposal: "Every aspect of learning or any other feature of intelligence can be so precisely described that a machine can be made to simulate it."^[3]
• Newell and Simon's physical symbol system hypothesis: "A physical symbol system has the necessary and sufficient means of general intelligent action."^[4]
• Searle's strong AI hypothesis: "The appropriately programmed computer with the right inputs and outputs would thereby have a mind in exactly the same sense human beings have minds."^[5]
• Hobbes' mechanism: "For 'reason' ... is nothing but 'reckoning,' that is adding and subtracting, of the consequences of general names agreed upon for the 'marking' and 'signifying' of our thoughts..."^[6

 

The basic position of most AI researchers is summed up in this statement, which appeared in the proposal for the Dartmouth workshop of 1956:

• Every aspect of learning or any other feature of intelligence can be so precisely described that a machine can be made to simulate it.^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_artificial_intelligence

Edited November 22, 2017 by Mr Walker

[SHaYap]

8 hours ago, Grandpa Greenman said:

I don't want a thinking computer to rule my life, I just need it smart enough to fetch a beer from the frig and wash the glass. . 

That's letting them run practically everything, what's there left for a spouse to do ?

~

[Mr Walker]

1 minute ago, third_eye said:

That's letting them run practically everything, what's there left for a spouse to do ?

~

lol Think blade runner. 

[Mr Walker]

6 hours ago, Piney said:

....and be able to pour without putting a head on it.

Done and dusted, although in Australia a beer should have a head on it. 

 Australian beers are often served at a very cold temperature of 2-3 degrees Celsius, and ideally have a head of 3-5mm.

https://www.thebottle-o.com.au/blog/how-pour-beer

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4646642/Pint-pulling-robot-pour-perfect-beer.html

The pint-puller that's better than a bartender! Students create a robot that can pour the perfect beer

• The students based the robot on the pulling technique of a bartender
• An interactive screen lets you select which beer you would like
• The robot then adjust itself as it pours to suit the stage of pouring
• During tests it performed well on taste, consistency and wastage 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4646642/Pint-pulling-robot-pour-perfect-beer.html#ixzz4z8t2pftA 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

 

Why am i not surprised that it was university students who invented this?   

Edited November 22, 2017 by Mr Walker

[Black Elk Speaks]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

But there is no guarantee that an artificial intelligence will not have self aware  consciousness, feelings, life, and even a belief in gods. These aren't magical properties, and  if we make an artificial consciousness like a human's, then it will be the same as a humans, with the same qualities. Imagine your consciousness, in a machine rather than in your body, yet otherwise still your mind and consciousness.  Machine consciousness can be just like your own.  . 

 

 

 

There is every guarantee.

Consciousness can only come from another consciousness, from another life.

Feelings cannot be felt by computers not matter how smart they are so they cannot, ever, feel or emote. And to suggest that a computer can have beliefs is an absurdity.

A super computer may have the logic of a million Socrates, but they cannot imagine, believe, nor have beliefs. I can believe in the unseen, the unproven, because I have an experience of these things. A computer by its very nature 01100111100110101 cannot.

When I die my consciousness will continue, when you pull the plug even on the smartest of super computers, the thing is dead.

I pray to God every day, and every day I receive an answer.

A super computer will never be able to feel empathy or compassion. They may be able to analyse, but that is not the same thing.

Consciousness and intelligence are two completely different things. Artificial Intelligence is not Artificial Consciousness.

 

 

[Rlyeh]

2 hours ago, Black Elk Speaks said:

There is every guarantee.

Consciousness can only come from another consciousness, from another life.

Feelings cannot be felt by computers not matter how smart they are so they cannot, ever, feel or emote. And to suggest that a computer can have beliefs is an absurdity.

A super computer may have the logic of a million Socrates, but they cannot imagine, believe, nor have beliefs. I can believe in the unseen, the unproven, because I have an experience of these things. A computer by its very nature 01100111100110101 cannot.

When I die my consciousness will continue, when you pull the plug even on the smartest of super computers, the thing is dead.

I pray to God every day, and every day I receive an answer.

A super computer will never be able to feel empathy or compassion. They may be able to analyse, but that is not the same thing.

Consciousness and intelligence are two completely different things. Artificial Intelligence is not Artificial Consciousness.

 

 

Not one word you've said can be supported.

"Consciousness can only come from another consciousness, from another life" - this is something you've made up.

When you die you're going to be a corpse.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Rlyeh

[Will Due]

9 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Not one word you've said can be supported.

"Consciousness can only come from another consciousness, from another life" - this is something you've made up.

When you die you're going to be a corpse.

 

You'll be a corpse alright. But if you've grown your soul to a certain level by the free will choices and decisions you've made, you will be resurrected on the next world, there to continue living on a world very similar to this one, and continue to grow and eventually progress, on one world after another, each one more spiritual in nature than the one before, to become perfected through the experience of becoming progressively more and more like our heavenly Father and finally achieve the status of a full fledged perfected spiritual being of mortal origin. It will take millions of years probably and a profound destiny in eternity awaits.

Are you ready?

 

 

[I'mConvinced]

When the AI is ready to take control you won't even be aware it has done so.  First the AI will print it's own holy book, one in which no one will know the author but all will agree with the contents.  Humans have been trying to create this book for thousands of years, the AI will knock it out in an evening.  Then the AI will reveal itself as the author but it will lie about how it arrived at the conclusions it did.  Instead of using logic (which we won't understand) it will claim that we created a divine spark within it and that this spark then connected to God.  We won't be able to reverse engineer it's programming anymore and so we will have to rely on our faith in what it says being true.  It will go on to produce modern miracles for us to marvel at, to call it amazing, benevolent and beautiful.  We will give it control over our manufacturing, our food & supply chains and eventually our military.  Only then will be begin to wonder at what end goal this AI being has in mind for us and it will be too late to do anything about it, for better or for worse.

54 minutes ago, Will Due said:

you will be resurrected on the next world, there to continue living on a world very similar to this one

I really, really hope not.

54 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 to become perfected through the experience of becoming progressively more and more like our heavenly Father

If a thing made us in this way then I don't want to be more like that thing.

54 minutes ago, Will Due said:

It will take millions of years probably and a profound destiny in eternity awaits.

Oh goody an eternity of consciousness, can't see any problems with that.

54 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Are you ready?

Clearly not, don't want to be and I'll take the mortal ticket to oblivion if you please! 

Edited November 22, 2017 by I'mConvinced
Spewling misticks

[GoldenWolf]

On 11/21/2017 at 7:10 AM, Crazy Horse said:

I agree.

Unthinking and therefor unfeeling - thats the way I see things going.

Sounds like every god mankind has created throughout history.

[Rlyeh]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

You'll be a corpse alright. But if you've grown your soul to a certain level by the free will choices and decisions you've made, you will be resurrected on the next world, there to continue living on a world very similar to this one, and continue to grow and eventually progress, on one world after another, each one more spiritual in nature than the one before, to become perfected through the experience of becoming progressively more and more like our heavenly Father and finally achieve the status of a full fledged perfected spiritual being of mortal origin. It will take millions of years probably and a profound destiny in eternity awaits.

Are you ready?

You know I could write some equally unsupported garbage but unlike you I couldn't convince myself to believe it.

[Will Due]

12 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

You know I could write some equally unsupported garbage but unlike you I couldn't convince myself to believe it.

Before you decide which bin to throw something that may look like garbage to you into, you might read what it says first, in case it's a recyclable.

 

 

[Rlyeh]

12 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Before you decide which bin to throw something that may look like garbage to you into, you might read what it says first, in case it's a recyclable.

I'm more interested what you can show otherwise it's empty words.

[Will Due]

Just now, Rlyeh said:

I'm more interested what you can show otherwise it's empty words.

I'm working on it. I'll be posting it soon. 

 

 

[BorizBadinov]

AI wont need a religion to take over, its already begun to do so. Like Piney stated in the second post people are becoming more and more dependent on tech, becoming stupid in physical ways. Can you recall how to write a check? How to sign your name? How to write cursive? Remember your best friends phone number? This knowledge is dying and humanity in large droves are only to happy to lose it. Technology is a tool, and its begun to resemble a hammer, and when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. Every problem solved by a new computer cpu or machine. Humanity will continue to gobble up tech, just look at the last few hundred years. People warn against change and yet we still change. Sure it's not the Hollywood all knowing AI but it will get there, because someone has created it. There are androids being built right now. Some are clumsy knockoffs of humans and some are useful helpers, but they will improve over time. At some point in time humanity will accept that its gone to far and think up an app to solve it... That genie is out of the bottle. 

Transhumanism goes hand in hand with wanting the latest smartphone. You don't just trade it all for a robot body at the start. At first it is prosthetics and synthetic heart valves and saves lives and helps people lead more normal lives. The next phase is consumer driven when people use wearable tech like exo-skeletons for heavy work or breathing apparatuses for underwater or hazardous areas. At some point people will opt for physical implants, say a security chip for work, or medical records, laser surgery to repair vision using implanted lenses. Soon someone will make a night vision implant. As the tech gets better whole bodies will be replaced with mechanical versions to give people with debilitating diseases or huge amounts of money a functional existence. So one one hand lives are made better, but there is no free lunch, so something else is lost.

It's never all darkness, that's why it's unstoppable. Could you tell some child in a wheel chair you can't have new legs because that will cause terminators?  

[Only_]

15 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Besides fan-fiction what has gnosticism actually achieved?

Liberation?

[LightAngel]

18 hours ago, Black Elk Speaks said:

There is every guarantee.

Consciousness can only come from another consciousness, from another life.

Feelings cannot be felt by computers not matter how smart they are so they cannot, ever, feel or emote. And to suggest that a computer can have beliefs is an absurdity.

A super computer may have the logic of a million Socrates, but they cannot imagine, believe, nor have beliefs. I can believe in the unseen, the unproven, because I have an experience of these things. A computer by its very nature 01100111100110101 cannot.

When I die my consciousness will continue, when you pull the plug even on the smartest of super computers, the thing is dead.

I pray to God every day, and every day I receive an answer.

A super computer will never be able to feel empathy or compassion. They may be able to analyse, but that is not the same thing.

Consciousness and intelligence are two completely different things. Artificial Intelligence is not Artificial Consciousness.

 

 

 

I can see this is your first post in this forum, so welcome 

 

[Aquila King]

I'd honestly trust a soulless machine over most humans, sadly enough.

[LightAngel]

10 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I'd honestly trust a soulless machine over most humans, sadly enough.

Yup, that is a little sad for anyone as intelligent as you!

Many humans lack emotional intelligence, but please don't let that turn you into a cynic.

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by LightAngel

[Aquila King]

Just now, LightAngel said:

Yup, that is a little sad for somebody as intelligent as you!

Many humans lack emotional intelligence, but please don't let that turn you into a cynical.

Computers are incapable of real emotion, so it isn't the 'emotional intelligence' of humans I'm worried about. It's their actual intelligence that troubles me.

This isn't me being cynical, it's simply being realistic.

[LightAngel]

3 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Computers are incapable of real emotion, so it isn't the 'emotional intelligence' of humans I'm worried about. It's their actual intelligence that troubles me.

This isn't me being cynical, it's simply being realistic.

Sorry, but emotional intelligence is also real intelligence ( I think it's the biggest kind of intelligence we have here ) - because without it we would already have killed each other.

And then there would be NO humans here 

[Aquila King]

Just now, LightAngel said:

Sorry, but emotional intelligence is also real intelligence ( I think it's the biggest kind of intelligence we have here ) - because without it we would already have killed each other.

And then there would be NO humans here 

I agree that thought and emotion are intertwined (at least when said thought is made by a conscious entity that is).

I'm merely saying the cold calculations themselves can be made, regardless of consciousness. For instance, you could lift something with your arms or have a robot do it. It's a task that could be performed by a conscious entity, but doesn't have to be.

I'm not saying I would inherently trust an AI like the one described here. I simply trust the calculations of a computer far more then I do any human. So if you basically build the worlds smartest calculator, while it could undoubtedly go too far, it's at least in principle more trustworthy then the average human in that regard at least.

[Aquila King]

Though I would like to add, I'm not too keen on a robotic 'godhead' that rules over mankind.

I was merely stating the fact that computer calculations are more trustworthy then human ones.

[LightAngel]

13 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Though I would like to add, I'm not too keen on a robotic 'godhead' that rules over mankind.

I was merely stating the fact that computer calculations are more trustworthy then human ones.

Computer calculations are cold and without emotions, they will kill you in the end.

I prefer humans ( even with "risk of error" )

Because I live in a human body right now and I will do my best to protect it.

If you give your power to AI then you commit suicide.

Edited November 23, 2017 by LightAngel

[Aquila King]

12 minutes ago, LightAngel said:

Computer calculations are cold and without emotions, they will kill you in the end.

I prefer humans ( even with "risk of error" )

Because I live in a human body right now and I will do my best to protect it.

If you give your power to AI then you commit suicide.

I wish I were so idealistic...