jmccr8 Posted December 11, 2017 #76 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said: No, not possible. I'm Batman! Well we will just have to see which one of you is Battier. jmccr8 Edited December 11, 2017 by jmccr8 Little buttons fat fingers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #77 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, third_eye said: Actually all I could gather from that might as well be you claiming to be the Batman and the Character Bruce Wayne was actually loosely based on your life story as a vigilante crime fighter returning a lost wallet to its rightful owner ... ~ That is your problem i was talking about how you are more likely to find money when you are in the moment and conscious of your environment I gave the example of finding a purse while looking in the gutter At the time any average Australian kid would have returned the purse intact because that was the almost universal morality of the time. There was nothing heroic about it. However i was struck by the sheer joy on the woman's face when she got her money back. This affected me in the future and, unless a reader understands just how much money that t was in real terms, they might not appreciate what a big deal it was. Imagine a young person today finding a wallet with $700 in it and no witnesses to the find. Some would still return it without hesitation, but many no longer would. I just checked the stats from the Australian year book of 1959. In 1959 the average MALE weekly wage was 6 pounds or 12 dollars in decimal currency of today. A woman's was about 30 % less That purse had around 15 to 20 pounds in it Thus it was much more than a weeks wages to that woman, perhaps a months. I had never realised this until now, but i had returned to her something like $3000 in today's money. No wonder she was stoked. Edited December 11, 2017 by Mr Walker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted December 11, 2017 #78 Share Posted December 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Well we will just have to see which one of you is Battier. jmccr8 Need you ask? There is no one on this earth as batty as I am. No, wait... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 11, 2017 #79 Share Posted December 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Imagine a young person today finding a wallet with $700 in it and no witnesses to the find. Some would still return it without hesitation, but many no longer would. First you expressively enthused readers to ... 24 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Please READ my posts more carefully ~ Then you professedly confessed ... 24 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Perhaps i used the wrong expression, but clearly the sum was so wrong for the fifties, that a reader should have known what i was saying. ~ You are right Mr Walker ... we do know better ... no different in a manner of speaking from you claiming to be the Bats which is clearly and evidently untrue ... ~ 5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Imagine a young person today finding a wallet with $700 in it and no witnesses to the find. Some would still return it without hesitation, but many no longer would. What you are really trying to say here is ' Unlike yourself ' ~ Claims Mr Walker ... nothing but unverifiable assertions ... kinda like saying ' I am actually who Superman was based on ... ' Up Up and away Mr Walker ... Faster than a speeding bullet on top of that ... ~ You carry on ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #80 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, third_eye said: First you expressively enthused readers to ... ~ Then you professedly confessed ... ~ You are right Mr Walker ... we do know better ... no different in a manner of speaking from you claiming to be the Bats which is clearly and evidently untrue ... ~ What you are really trying to say here is ' Unlike yourself ' ~ Claims Mr Walker ... nothing but unverifiable assertions ... kinda like saying ' I am actually who Superman was based on ... ' Up Up and away Mr Walker ... Faster than a speeding bullet on top of that ... ~ You carry on ... I am being my honest self and looking at two possible sides to the story i believe what i said was crystal clear (why put in a phrase like "the modern equivalent" if i wasn't trying to say how much the purse contained in modern values,) but I am prepared to give sherapy the benefit of the doubt, despite her poor history with reading and interpreting my posts. Despite her efforts at civility, it seems that Sherapy has a deep dislike and distrust of me, and all i stand for, (well with a couple of exceptions) and this colours everything she reads; OR she simply has such a different mind set that my words read differently in her mind, to mine I can't see how ANYONE could think a person was earning $ 500 a week in the 1950s The rest of your post simply doesn't make sense. Where have i ever claimed to be any kind of super hero? I am exceptionally human,. ie anything i am capable of all humans are also capable of.. Which is why my avatar is mr walker not the phantom And no, while it is true that i would still return such a find, so would any of the kids i went to school with, and who are now my age. However, modern moralities have changed. I am sure you can find surveys etc which show what percentage of modern young people would return such a find, if there were no witnesses to it Are you feeling well? Why the personal commentary? Edited December 11, 2017 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 11, 2017 #81 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Are you feeling well? Never better Mr Walker ... never better ... and you ain't fooling none of us except yourself ... case in point ... ~ 3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: I but am prepared to give sherapy the benefit ot the doubt despite her poor history with reading and interpreting my posts my posts. You just can't resist can you ? I detected a stutter there ... are you getting well at all , Mr Walker ? ~ 5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Where have i ever claimed to be any kind of super hero i am exceptionally human Quite exceptional Mr Walker ... except ... not in the manner that you would have us all believe ... ~ That will do Mr Walker ... That will do ... ~ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrius Posted December 11, 2017 #82 Share Posted December 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: However modern moralities have changed. why do you think morality has changed? what is the reason for that in your opinion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #83 Share Posted December 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, third_eye said: Never better Mr Walker ... never better ... and you ain't fooling none of us except yourself ... case in point ... ~ You just can't resist can you ? I detected a stutter there ... are you getting well at all , Mr Walker ? ~ Quite exceptional Mr Walker ... except ... not in the manner that you would have us all believe ... ~ That will do Mr Walker ... That will do ... ~ Which of us is demonstrating the greater emotional instability and immaturity, i wonder ? You might note that I redrafted and made some corrections and changes to my post while you were responding. The stutter's gone but i think your "nit picking" remains. Look deep into your self, and try to identify what it is within you, that is upset by what I post. What values, or parts of your own identity/world view, do they challenge or upset? . Or do you simply get pleasure from being unpleasant to others?. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 11, 2017 #84 Share Posted December 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Look deep into your self, and try to identify what it is within you, that is upset by what I post. What on earth gave you the idea that I was upset ? In fact I find it most gratifying that you continues to provide ample evidence of your incapacity to address your incontinence for a penchant for the inconsistent ... ~ 1 minute ago, Mr Walker said: What values, or parts of your own identity/world view, do they challenge or upset? . Oh here's an idea. why not pursue this further with your self proclaimed Space-Time Higher Consciousness Inter-Dimensional Traveling capabilities and enlighten me ? I await with exuberant expectations ... Till then ... remember to pay the Astral Plane toll tax on your way back ... No nit picking required ... ~ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #85 Share Posted December 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said: why do you think morality has changed? what is the reason for that in your opinion? Observation statistics history politics anthropology psychology etc. Eg a young man was killed in a fight in a main street in my capital city on saturday night. the fight involved two groups of youths This was at 5 am in the morning. Alcohol was a contributing factor When i was his age if i had been out on the street after 12 pm the police would have stopped and questioned me (as the y did) There was no availability of alcohol after about 10 pm. and you could not buy alcohol until you were 21. Very few people were out on the streets in the ealry hours of the morning Each week this year 70000, mostly young, people converge on our city entertainment district They can drink and be entertained all night, although in recent years you are not allowed to enter a premise after 3 am Not only is alcohol a problem, other drugs are a cause of a lot of violence Now with that structural change in society there will also be an alteration in moralities and beliefs Eg i would ask why ANYONE needs to be out being entertained after midnight but it goes to the values and priorities of mainly young people , and is only supported by businesses who are making a fortune from them The attitude of youth to authority and especially to police is another example of changing moralities. The reasons are complex an varied including the effects of the contraceptive pill, married women working, family break ups and many children without biological mothers and fathers resulting in family tensions, violence, abuse, and youth homelessness (thousands of children are now wards of the sate just in our small state) a general growth in civil disobedience and distrust of authority from the sixties and seventies, increased materialism and individualism A break down in communities and cohesive/ standard moralities, supported by all parts of a society A more diverse range of core beliefs values moralities and ethics creating social conflict because this diversity has been encouraged rather than social cohesion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #86 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, third_eye said: What on earth gave you the idea that I was upset ? In fact I find it most gratifying that you continues to provide ample evidence of your incapacity to address your incontinence for a penchant for the inconsistent ... ~ Oh here's an idea. why not pursue this further with your self proclaimed Space-Time Higher Consciousness Inter-Dimensional Traveling capabilities and enlighten me ? I await with exuberant expectations ... Till then ... remember to pay the Astral Plane toll tax on your way back ... No nit picking required ... ~ Or, you could try making an intelligent, non value laden, objective response to a question Never mind. I think we have been here before, and you have refused to answer. If you are being "nasty" and personal. WITHOUT cause or reason to be upset, then there is nothing i can do to help you, by modifying or explaining my posts It is not my job to psychoanalyse you publicly, although, of course, it is irresistible to do so privately Edited December 11, 2017 by Mr Walker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrius Posted December 11, 2017 #87 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Observation statistics history politics anthropology psychology etc. Eg a young man was killed in a fight in a main street in my capital city on saturday night. the fight involved two groups of youths This was at 5 am in the morning. Alcohol was a contributing factor When i was his age if i had been out on the street after 12 pm the police would have stopped and questioned me (as the y did) There was no availability of alcohol after about 10 pm. and you could not buy alcohol until you were 21. Very few people were out on the streets in the ealry hours of the morning Each week this year 70000, mostly young, people converge on our city entertainment district They can drink and be entertained all night, although in recent years you are not allowed to enter a premise after 3 am Not only is alcohol a problem, other drugs are a cause of a lot of violence Now with that structural change in society there will also be an alteration in moralities and beliefs Eg i would ask why ANYONE needs to be out being entertained after midnight but it goes to the values and priorities of mainly young people , and is only supported by businesses who are making a fortune from them The attitude of youth to authority and especially to police is another example of changing moralities. The reasons are complex an varied including the effects of the contraceptive pill, married women working, family break ups and many children without biological mothers and fathers resulting in family tensions, violence, abuse, and youth homelessness (thousands of children are now wards of the sate just in our small state) a general growth in civil disobedience and distrust of authority from the sixties and seventies, increased materialism and individualism A break down in communities and cohesive/ standard moralities, supported by all parts of a society A more diverse range of core beliefs values moralities and ethics creating social conflict because this diversity has been encouraged rather than social cohesion in short - without additional details you think that the reasons are: alcohol, drugs, women not taking care of home, family tensions, youth homelessness, growth in civil disobedience, distrust of authority, increased materialism and individualism, break down in communites... ok-- makes sense. -------- Do you see a solution to the problem? Edited December 11, 2017 by Mr. Argon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 11, 2017 #88 Share Posted December 11, 2017 17 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said: in short - without additional details you think that the reasons are: alcohol, drugs, women not taking care of home, family tensions, youth homelessness, growth in civil disobedience, distrust of authority, increased materialism and individualism, break down in communites... ok-- makes sense. -------- Do you see a solution to the problem? These issues have existed for eons and there are still the majority of good people. jmccr8 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrius Posted December 11, 2017 #89 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, jmccr8 said: These issues have existed for eons and there are still the majority of good people. jmccr8 but he thinks that morals are degrading. so i am interested in his point of view. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #90 Share Posted December 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said: in short - without additional details you think that the reasons are: alcohol, drugs, women not taking care of home, family tensions, youth homelessness, growth in civil disobedience, distrust of authority, increased materialism and individualism, break down in communites... ok-- makes sense. -------- Do you see a solution to the problem? its more complex than the short version The present political and intellectual climate is characterised by a widespread diagnosis of social erosion in the Western countries. As already mentioned Putnam’s writing on the erosion of social trust and social norms in USA - the leader of the Western countries – has been one of main intellectual contribution that help to establish this climate (2000). Charles Murry’s book “Loosing ground” (1984) was another major contribution that supported the thesis of social erosion. The claim was that within the leading Western country, USA, one could find a distinct underclass culture, which totally disregarded the broader societal norms and values. Another central thinker has been Amitai Etzioni (e.g. The spirit of community, 1993), who signed the communitarian manifest from 1991 (“The Responsive Communitarian Platform”). The riots in Los Angeles in 1992, where young black people demolished the city (53 persons where killed and thousands were injured) became an important symbol that highlighted the relevance of these academic diagnoses. This could have been – and it will argued actually is – a story about societal erosion in USA and not in Western countries in general. However, due to increased immigration from third world countries the Europeans suddenly faced problems that seemed similar to them of USA. The immigrants from the third world country came with cultures that deviated significantly from the Western world views, they often settled in distinct immigrant neighbourhoods, they often had problems finding jobs, and many feared that the white majorities would develop very negative views about these groups. The seemingly success of right wing parties in France, Austria, the Netherlands, Norway and Denmark demonstrated that these fears were not groundless. In 2005 France experienced her riots; for a month youngsters from poor neighbourhoods – primarily with Muslim background – burned cars in the France suburbs. Around 9,000 cars were burned and around 3,000 persons were arrested http://www.nova.no/asset/3699/1/3699_1.pdf There are several potential scenarios First; continued erosion of social cohesion, leading to anarchy and disintegration of society as seen in the middle east some African countries and in the balkans, 20 years ago. Second; a deliberate, proactive strategy of social and economic policy, through education and legislation, to alter this, and to bring back values of cohesion, social stability, and individual obligations over individual rights. That is a long term goal, but achievable given political will and direction. Third; and most likely, A revolt, driven from within society itself, which forces govts., to change policy eg people get sick of the conditions the y are living under and DEMAND conservative changes be introduced. Classically these fall under revolutionary change vs evolutionary change. My hope, and my belief, is that humans will realise the damage being done and will force govts to become more conservative thus avoiding revolutionary change during a crisis. This is made increasingly probable by demographics, as young people become a smaller and smaller minority. in a world of ageing conservatives There are structural reforms which could be used such as rethinking our urban growth and structuring it in ways which reestablish neighbourhoods and communities.but a lot of it requires altering the core values and beliefs of some people eg that young people cannot be held accountable for their behaviours but that neither can their parents leaving g NO one responsible for those behaviours Or tha t everyone has a right to live as they chose, regardless of the harm and cost of their choices on many other citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrius Posted December 11, 2017 #91 Share Posted December 11, 2017 walker, i can't read all your books in one post. just answer me one question without going to andromeda with words please. do you think people are more alieniated than before? more distant and less cohesive? short please in the name of the lord. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #92 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: These issues have existed for eons and there are still the majority of good people. jmccr8 Probably true but when the percentage of " bad people" in a community is raised from less than 5% to even 10% you see big problems. I live in a community with almost NO crime yet 60 ks down the road is a city of 14000 people, wracked by violence, drugs, thefts, etc. so that you are not safe either at home or out in the street And even good people are let down by social structures which encourage the overuse of alcohol, the use of drugs, and a materialist individualist culture which is basically hedonistic and driven by commercial interests. What does a society expect when it actually facilitates and encourages 70000 young people out on the city streets on a Saturday night between the hours of 12 and day light What reason is there for such access, and exposure to risk? What does it expect when many of those young people lack work, identity, hope, purpose, or community, and are angry and frustrated with their lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #93 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said: walker, i can't read all your books in one post. just answer me one question without going to andromeda with words please. do you think people are more alieniated than before? more distant and less cohesive? short please in the name of the lord. There isn't a short answer. It is complicated. i know you like having simple answers, facts and figures, presented to you, but honestly this is too complicated for that. ps that post WAS the short version. I tried to encapsulate a little of the academic explanation for the origins of social decay The rest was answering your question about solutions Yes there are solutions, but either they require planned action starting now, or the y will be forced on us by revolutionary changes, when conditions get really bad. Ps IMO a large percentage of Americans believe that TRUMP is the answer/ repsonse to this social decay and lack of cohesion. Time will tell if he has the abilty to make significant changes Edited December 11, 2017 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrius Posted December 11, 2017 #94 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Mr Walker said: There isn't a short answer. It is complicated i know you like having simple answers, facts and figures, presented to you but honestly this is too complicated for that so you can't just say a judgment of your perception about something in yes or no? for example if i asked you do you see a sun? you would start your answer with a history of solar system? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #95 Share Posted December 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said: so you can't just say a judgment of your perception about something in yes or no? for example if i asked you do you see a sun? you would start your answer with a history of solar system? Define "see" and "sun" before we can begin. But that is not the problem. It really is very complicated, and has evolved over time (academics argue it began with access to motor cars in the mid 1900s in america which led to new freedoms for american young people) so will require time to fix it See my comment about trump He can see what he perceives as the causes of decay and reduction in social cohesion in America, and has planned responses to fix his perceptions Others think he sees things incorrectly or don't think his solutions will work. If his social policies have as much of an effect as his economic ones, things will get really interesting. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrius Posted December 11, 2017 #96 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Just now, Mr Walker said: Define "see" and "sun" before we can begin. But that is not the problem. It really is very complicated, and has evolved over time (academics argue it began with access to motor cars in the mid 1900s in america which led to new freedoms for american young people) so will require time to fix it See my comment about trump He can see what he perceives as the causes of decay and reduction in social cohesion in America, and has planned responses to fix his perceptions Others think he sees things incorrectly or don't think his solutions will work. If his social policies have as much of an effect as his economic ones, things will get really interesting. . it is complicated to state a judgement of subjective perception about alienation of people, and loss of cohesiveness in society in less than 70 pages? ok, i quit then. thanks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 11, 2017 #97 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr. Argon said: it is complicated to state a judgement of subjective perception about alienation of people, and loss of cohesiveness in society in less than 70 pages? ok, i quit then. thanks. No the issue itself is complex, not necessarily ones perception of it Most people actually simplify the issue so they can make sense of it . I t would take 70000 pages at least to do an analysis of the whole issue, but 70 pages might give a good overview/synopsis What do I personally think? Its complicated but basically it stems form the individuals disconnection from every thing which gives him/her purpose and a sense of identity Family neighbourhood work religious and social organisations And also from their individual and social history eg many people dont even know their grandparents any more, and most don't know the history of their community or family A lot never know their biological father or his family and some don't know their biological mother This breaks them from the traditional values of extended family community etc and leaves them open to be "radicalised" by new values and ideologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 11, 2017 #98 Share Posted December 11, 2017 9 hours ago, Mr Walker said: No the issue itself is complex, not necessarily ones perception of it Most people actually simplify the issue so they can make sense of it . I t would take 70000 pages at least to do an analysis of the whole issue, but 70 pages might give a good overview/synopsis What do I personally think? Its complicated but basically it stems form the individuals disconnection from every thing which gives him/her purpose and a sense of identity Family neighbourhood work religious and social organisations And also from their individual and social history eg many people dont even know their grandparents any more, and most don't know the history of their community or family A lot never know their biological father or his family and some don't know their biological mother This breaks them from the traditional values of extended family community etc and leaves them open to be "radicalised" by new values and ideologies Walker social unrest has always existed, for thousands of years childeren have raised themselves because of social conditions. It may seem more prevelant today but population expansion coupled with media may make it seem that it has progressed although percentages may not have varied as drastically as you infer. You and I are close in age and yes there were some differences some of those differences stem from the fact that as childeren and early adulthood we were oblivious to some aspects of our culture/society. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 11, 2017 #99 Share Posted December 11, 2017 13 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Or, you could try making an intelligent, non value laden, objective response to a question Oh the irony ... the one thing that everyone knows of what I take from your posts is the humorous entertainment value, I thank you for that ... no big secret Though I do find your subtle and sly blatant plagiarism somewhat distasteful. Objectively speaking of course ... ~ 13 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Never mind. I think we have been here before, and you have refused to answer. If you are being "nasty" and personal. WITHOUT cause or reason to be upset, then there is nothing i can do to help you, by modifying or explaining my posts Not even by Astral Traveling through your much touted Higher Dimensional Domains of Exceptional Consciousness? You disappoint me Mr Walker ... no nastiness intended. No manner of modicum or modifications will prevail Mr Walker, your explanations fail on so many levels it is rather incomprehensible that you ever consider it anywhere helpful. Personal Mr Walker ? You mean like how you attempted to slide a nestled sideways swipe at another member here in one of your replies addressed to me ? That kind of deceitful intent will get you nowhere with me Mr Walker, justifiable cause enough IF I were so interested to get anywhere near 'personal' with you. You seems to have lost your capacity to read and understand Mr Walker, I reiterate ... was not or ever was upset ... ~ 13 hours ago, Mr Walker said: It is not my job to psychoanalyse you publicly, although, of course, it is irresistible to do so privately What you do privately is none of my concern Mr Walker, you keep on stroking yourself to whatever heights of ecstasy you care to, I don't think your claims of being capable of psychoanalysing anything here as a 'job' is convincing which furthermore, is as far fetched as many if not all your other claims ... ~ Carry on Mr Walker ... carry on 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted December 11, 2017 #100 Share Posted December 11, 2017 The more I learn about you Walker, the less I like you. No offense meant, but you've got some strange views on things. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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