Can a picture/video prove ETs exist?

[Fila]

I just wanted to talk about how pointless it is arguing over whether or not a video/image contains an extraterrestrial vehicle or unknown object.
In fact., it actually does more harm due to the fact that fake UFO footage can be proven fake.., but legitimate footage will never be considered proof.

Constantly searching for proof in a video means that we will only ever find
1) Fake images
2) Inconclusive images

After hours of research and debate.., at best a UFO video/pic will be inconclusive.

We will never be able to prove ETs exist just from looking at YouTube videos and listening to stories.

I believe we have enough credible UFO video footage, images and eye witness testimonies to move past this form of "research" and focus on solving the problem once and for all.

We've been relying on these 'investigative techniques" for 70+ years now, with no avail.
Perhaps its time to realise the futility in these attempts and start thinking of new ways to move forward.

70 years of looking at pictures and listening to stories has achieved nothing.
Another 70 years of looking at pics, and listening to stories will not prove anything.
The last generation wasted decades on this fruitless investigation.., lets not continue the cycle for another 70 years

 

EDIT: It's UM's 17th anniversary. This is a good opportunity to objectively look back at what you have been doing on this site and why? What you hope to achieve and how you plan on doing that.

(Thx  Saru)

Edited December 12, 2017 by Fila

[Saru]

Welcome to the forums. 

13 minutes ago, Fila said:

I noticed it's UM's 10th anniversary. This is a good opportunity to objectively look back at what you have been doing on this site and why? What you hope to achieve and how you plan on doing that.

Just to correct you there - it will actually be our 17th anniversary in March.

[Fila]

Which makes my point even stronger.

Thank you for the input Saru

Edited December 12, 2017 by Fila

[Emma_Acid]

I think it's worth bearing in mind that with the sudden explosion of very high quality, mobile cameras which now the majority of the population own and carry around with them at all times, the proportion of UFO photos and footage has not exploded accordingly, something you'd expect to happen. 

I think that's pretty much proof that there aren't actually any cases of visitation.

And no, "pictures and stories" are not acceptable proof. I think it is time we got out of this late-20th-century X-Files-inspired way of thinking that aliens are going to travel light years just to creep around, cut bits off animals and stuff things up peoples' bums.

This has become the "accepted" version of what alien visitation looks like, despite no actual solid evidence. This version of visitation is now accepted as if it were a factual phenomena, and its a frame of mind we really need to get out of. It's unrealistic, unhelpful and obviously based on fiction.

[ChrLzs]

1 hour ago, Fila said:

I just wanted to talk about how pointless it is arguing over whether or not a video/image contains an extraterrestrial vehicle or unknown object.
In fact., it actually does more harm due to the fact that fake UFO footage can be proven fake.., but legitimate footage will never be considered proof.

Nor should it. Videos and photos are indeed easier to fake nowadays,which gives EVEN MORE reason not to accept just one of thme as 'beyond reasonable doubt.

Quote

Constantly searching for proof in a video means that we will only ever find
1) Fake images
2) Inconclusive images

Why wouldn't you simply look for corroborative evidence?

Fakers are generally lazy....

Quote

We will never be able to prove ETs exist just from looking at YouTube videos and listening to stories.

Just as well- who would be silly enough to think that Youtube was a place of reference?

Quote

I believe we have enough credible UFO video footage, images and eye witness testimonies to move past this form of "research" and focus on solving the problem once and for all.

Rubbish.  And the plural of rubbish is not reality.  I challenge you to post the best one you can find - if it's not convincing, then you have your answer.

Quote

We've been relying on these 'investigative techniques" for 70+ years now, with no avail.

What?  Using Youtube is 'investigating'?  Hahaha.

 

If I want to prove something to you, I'll post the BEST evidence- videos, artefacts, proper analysis.  Feel free to show the best you've found for ufos=alienz.  And also, don't confuse believing that aliens exist out there somewhere in the Universe (I think almost everyone here believes THAT) and believing that alienz are clandestinely visiting earth.

Edited December 12, 2017 by ChrLzs
stupid bloody editor won't break out of quotes.... grrr.

[Fila]

On 12/12/2017 at 9:30 PM, Emma_Acid said:

 

 

I think it's worth bearing in mind that with the sudden explosion of very high quality, mobile cameras which now the majority of the population own and carry around with them at all times, the proportion of UFO photos and footage has not exploded accordingly, something you'd expect to happen. 

I think that's pretty much proof that there aren't actually any cases of visitation.

On 12/12/2017 at 9:30 PM, Emma_Acid said:

I think it's worth bearing in mind that with the sudden explosion of very high quality, mobile cameras which now the majority of the population own and carry around with them at all times, the proportion of UFO photos and footage has not exploded accordingly, something you'd expect to happen.  I think that's pretty much proof that there aren't actually any cases of visitation.

This would be more of an assumption, or hypothesis at best (providing you do thorough background research and are willing to test, analyse and communicate your hypothesis scientifically)

 

On 12/12/2017 at 9:30 PM, Emma_Acid said:

And no, "pictures and stories" are not acceptable proof. I think it is time we got out of this late-20th-century X-Files-inspired way of thinking that aliens are going to travel light years just to creep around, cut bits off animals and stuff things up peoples' bums.

This has become the "accepted" version of what alien visitation looks like, despite no actual solid evidence. This version of visitation is now accepted as if it were a factual phenomena, and its a frame of mind we really need to get out of. It's unrealistic, unhelpful and obviously based on fiction.

Yes, gullible people are frustrating. Biased "believers" should realise that they are actually causing harm to UFOlogy.

[Fila]

On 12/12/2017 at 9:58 PM, ChrLzs said:

Nor should it. Videos and photos are indeed easier to fake nowadays,which gives EVEN MORE reason not to accept just one of thme as 'beyond reasonable doubt.

Yes, biased "believers" should not be so gullible and use videos as proof.

But I am sure there is credible footage of UFOs out there that is still unexplained.

I am wondering how much of this footage is required to prompt a scientific investigation.

On 12/12/2017 at 9:58 PM, ChrLzs said:

Why wouldn't you simply look for corroborative evidence? Fakers are generally lazy....

 

That's how the videos/images end up in the "Solved" pile.

But there is always only ever going to be 2 piles. "SOLVED" and "UN-SOLVED"

[I'mConvinced]

1 hour ago, Fila said:

We will never be able to prove ETs exist just from looking at YouTube videos and listening to stories.

Not really true.  You can't prove they exist with the current crop of YouTube videos but as a place to post evidence YouTube is as good as anywhere.    

4 minutes ago, Fila said:

But I am sure there is credible footage of UFOs out there that is still unexplained.

I've not found any and I have looked quite extensively.  This seems to be the common result for people who are interested but not easily convinced.

8 minutes ago, Fila said:

I am wondering how much of this footage is required to prompt a scientific investigation.

Just some would do.  Nobody carries out scientific investigations into UFO sightings these days as most of that has been done and the conclusion of 'nothing to see here' found in almost every case.

[Inversion5]

1 hour ago, Fila said:

Can a picture/video prove ETs exist?

Yes, if a probe takes a pic or video of ET somewhere other than our planet, and if we have substantial pics/videos of one here on earth and everything is perceived as legitimate (you know, the way we believe our news stories, etc.)

[ChrLzs]

2 minutes ago, Fila said:

This would be more of an assumption, or hypothesis at best (providing you do thorough background research...

 

Allow me - please dispute anything I say below:

1. How many people have smart phones now, compared to .. oh say 1980?

Here, let me help - NO-ONE had a smart phone in 1980....

2. How affordable is a digital SLR now, compared to.. oh say 1980?

Here, let me help.  About 10 times more affordable, once you added in film and processing costs.  That's why I now have one with me at all times, but didn't back in the 80's...  I'm not alone in that - many, many more people have very fine cameras now, than at any time in history.

And let's not add in the advances in telescopes, the ease with which you can set up all-night, all-sky monitoring webcams - I know of four amateur observatories within 20km of me....  Why aren't these people reporting 'anomalies'?  I'll tell you - it's not that they are being paid by the MIB, it's because their stuff is of sufficient quaiity that they can identify the objects as planes, choppers, RC aircraft/drones, etc, etc, or they come here and we help identify them as distant advertising blimps, or flare carrying skydivers, etc...

So explain what background research you would need to understand that we now monitor our skies many, many times more effectively and comprehensively than we ever have.  Yet the reports have gone down, and certainly no decent footage has surfaced since virtually everyone now carries a camera...  How can that be?

Also, the heydays of reports just happened to coincide with the introduction of large scale commercial air travel...  go figure...  1+1 = ?

 

Anyway, don't be shy.  Post your best evidence...  And why do you keep ignoring the simple fact that the plural of anecdote is NOT proof, just as the plural of rubbish videos is just more rubbish.

[Emma_Acid]

19 minutes ago, Fila said:

This would be more of an assumption, or hypothesis at best (providing you do thorough background research and are willing to test, analyse and communicate your hypothesis scientifically)

It's a pretty safe assumption, and one that does not need to be proven scientifically. The rise in mobile, high quality cameras should have led to a similar rise in visual UFO reporting. And it hasn't.

[Fila]

On 12/12/2017 at 10:32 PM, I'mConvinced said:

Not really true.  You can't prove they exist with the current crop of YouTube videos but as a place to post evidence YouTube is as good as anywhere.    

Sorry for the confusion.

I meant UFO videos in general. Regardless of the video sharing domain (Vimeo, Dailymotion etc)

Yes they are placves to post the videos.., but I don't think this will ever be sufficient proof.
Evidence? Perhaps.

 

On 12/12/2017 at 10:32 PM, I'mConvinced said:

I've not found any and I have looked quite extensively.  This seems to be the common result for people who are interested but not easily convinced.

I will have to show you some then.

Sorry, I cannot quote your last part, but in response. Yes. there have been investigations in the past.., but I think they were insufficient.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Fila

[XenoFish]

With the rise of drone hobbyist, I'd say that any real ufo sighting is next to nil.

Edited December 12, 2017 by XenoFish

[ChrLzs]

5 minutes ago, Fila said:

I will have to show you some then.

Bring your best first....

[Fila]

On 12/12/2017 at 10:32 PM, I'mConvinced said:

On 12/12/2017 at 10:34 PM, dirtierdragoon4 said:

Yes, if a probe takes a pic or video of ET somewhere other than our planet, and if we have substantial pics/videos of one here on earth and everything is perceived as legitimate (you know, the way we believe our news stories, etc.)

 

Couldn't it still be some kind of camera malfunction though?

Corrupt data being sent? Would video footage actually be considered proof?

[Fila]

On 12/12/2017 at 10:34 PM, ChrLzs said:

1. How many people have smart phones now, compared to .. oh say 1980?

Here, let me help - NO-ONE had a smart phone in 1980....

2. How affordable is a digital SLR now, compared to.. oh say 1980?

Here, let me help.  About 10 times more affordable, once you added in film and processing costs.  That's why I now have one with me at all times, but didn't back in the 80's...  I'm not alone in that - many, many more people have very fine cameras now, than at any time in history.

And let's not add in the advances in telescopes, the ease with which you can set up all-night, all-sky monitoring webcams - I know of four amateur observatories within 20km of me....  Why aren't these people reporting 'anomalies'?  I'll tell you - it's not that they are being paid by the MIB, it's because their stuff is of sufficient quaiity that they can identify the objects as planes, choppers, RC aircraft/drones, etc, etc, or they come here and we help identify them as distant advertising blimps, or flare carrying skydivers, etc...

So explain what background research you would need to understand that we now monitor our skies many, many times more effectively and comprehensively than we ever have.  Yet the reports have gone down, and certainly no decent footage has surfaced since virtually everyone now carries a camera...  How can that be?

Also, the heydays of reports just happened to coincide with the introduction of large scale commercial air travel...  go figure...  1+1 = ?

 

Anyway, don't be shy.  Post your best evidence...  And why do you keep ignoring the simple fact that the plural of anecdote is NOT proof, just as the plural of rubbish videos is just more rubbish.

Please calm down. What is with the angry attitude? Please just be civil. I know its exciting when we think we are right about something, but try and contain yourself a bit.

Yes there are more cameras, and they are cheaper. But this cannot be used as proof UFOs never existed. There are more factors and variables to consider if you really want to look into it properly.

1) Its possible that people spent more time outside in the olden days. Now we watch TV, play video games, go to malls and look at computers inside, walk to our cars, drive to work (generally inside).

2) People do not spend much time looking up. How much time daily do you spend analysing the skies?
This small time is now even greatly reduced due to having mobile phones. how much do you hear complaints about them making people anti-social. Or the dangers associated with us always looking at screens.

3) Cameras are not very good. I'll start a new thread about it this week after gathering some data. For now.., here's an experiment we can all try.

Go outside and wait for a plane or helicopter to fly over. -Study the detail of the aircraft with your naked eye, colour, shape, patterns. - Take a pic and study the image. You will notice you can barely see the aircraft. It will simply look like a smudge.

Probably more. That's just what I can think of now, but I really need to address other topics so I will move on.

Astronomers do not really look through telescopes as much as you think. Even when they do.., they are looking into a very tiny area of deep space, and would not see a UFO it was 100 meters from the observatory they are enclosed in. 

There are really not that many High Quality cameras pointing towards the sky. Webcams are terrible quality. The worst you can get.
again. Point one into the sky (night time would be MUCH worse btw) and see what you get.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Fila

[ChrLzs]

2 minutes ago, Fila said:

Please calm down. What is with the angry attitude? Please just be civil.

Quote the bit you think is angry.   In future try reading it in a monotone rather than attributing emotions..

As for the rest.... Maybe you should have read some threads here and learnt a bit before posting..?

 

Anyway - where's the very best video you were going to show us?

 

 

[Inversion5]

16 minutes ago, Fila said:

Couldn't it still be some kind of camera malfunction though?

Corrupt data being sent? Would video footage actually be considered proof?

Yes to all. If CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc., all caught footage on their own cameras by their own reporters of what looks like an exotic craft and aliens coming out of it, that do not look like humans, then I am sure we all would consider that as proof. If they look human, well, it would be harder to think of it as ET. Also, even if it did not look like us, we still can say that they live in the ocean or underground and have lived here from the start, so that would be kind of like ET. So I guess my analysis is that we are not looking necessarily for ET but sentient beings that is not already on our list of known sentient beings/humanoids.

[Fila]

On 12/12/2017 at 11:15 PM, ChrLzs said:

Quote the bit you think is angry.   In future try reading it in a monotone rather than attributing emotions..As for the rest.... Maybe you should have read some threads here and learnt a bit before posting..? Anyway - where's the very best video you were going to show us?

 

 

It appeared you were angry or getting overly-excited. Your whole post has that feel imo. If not.., and you also don't see what I see.., and this is you normally? I don't know what to say.

The video I mentioned to I'mconvinced? Yes, sure. That's fine. I will hunt them down.

As for the rest.. just post some links if you don't feel like explaining it all over again. Thank you.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Fila

[ChrLzs]

Oh and here's a shot from a webcam of mine..  I don't actually run an allnight cam as I don't do *serious* amateur astronomy, but here's the typical quality from a not very expensive cam - it's just a quick shot taken while I was testing it out...  See if you can spot Orion... (click to get larger version)

Dreadful quality, isn't it...  

 

[Inversion5]

2 hours ago, Fila said:

...Constantly searching for proof in a video means that we will only ever find 1) Fake images 2) Inconclusive images....

Artificial intelligence/learning programs will be very useful in the coming years or sooner on monitoring our skies. If this "not yet devised" learning program is able to snap pics/videos of what would constitute an anomaly, then our confidence of UAPs/UFOs existing will increase with it possibly being ET. If they can track it's trajectory on earth, then we can possibly find where it lands and observe them coming out of the craft... This narrative with corroborating pic/video evidence will surely be perceived as proof.

[Fila]

On 12/12/2017 at 11:27 PM, ChrLzs said:

Oh and here's a shot from a webcam of mine..  I don't actually run an allnight cam as I don't do *serious* amateur astronomy, but here's the typical quality from a not very expensive cam - it's just a quick shot taken while I was testing it out...  See if you can spot Orion... (click to get larger version)

Dreadful quality, isn't it...  

 

Sorry, but yes, it is terrible quality even with a long exposure.

Try taking a photo of a plane. And also remember to make a comparison to what you see with your naked eye

Edited December 12, 2017 by Fila

[Inversion5]

10 minutes ago, Fila said:

I appeared you were angry or getting overly-excited...

ChrLzs is just anxiously waiting for proof of aliens.

[Inversion5]

2 minutes ago, Fila said:

Sorry, but yes, it is terrible quality with with a long exposure.

Try taking a photo of a plane.

Here I thought it looked cool. Also the light pollution, good god!

[Fila]

On 12/12/2017 at 11:34 PM, dirtierdragoon4 said:

Here I thought it looked cool. Also the light pollution, good god!

Agreed. It does look cool. Just the quality is lacking.