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The best evidence for UFOs


Fila

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14 hours ago, Fila said:

OBSERVATION is first step, so that you know how you want to go about your research.

HYPOTHESIS is the answer you think you'll find.

PREDICTION is your specific belief about the scientific idea: If my hypothesis is true, then I predict we will discover this.

EXPERIMENT is the tool that you invent to answer the question, and

CONCLUSION is the answer that the experiment gives.

http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/scientific_method.html

 

Conclusions cannot be formed so hastily either. Please show your research, tests and experiments that allowed you to form such a strong conclusion.

I have made observations. I formed a hypothesis. I have made predictions.

"Experimenting" to see if UFOs exists is the hard part. This is what I would like to be doing with my time here.Trying to figure out how we can test, measure and record NEW live data. Not reviewing old stories and images (background research).

You made observations? You formed a hypothesis? I have seen neither in any of the threads.

The simple fact of the matter is that one of your posts asked for a belief to be shown to be wrong. That is the reason for my post that you responded to.

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4 hours ago, Area201 said:

The problem: "now everyone has smartphones and cameras on them, why don't we see a massive increase in sightings? thus they are not real etc." The answer: cameras with infrared or thermal filter that can zoom in far away, are needed and most people don't have them. See security video below for an example of recording and tracking an unidentified object. 

You can:

1. go UFO hunting using infrared cameras, lasers, and apps to track known objects like satellites and planes. I suggest getting equipment and experimenting yourself, or if you cannot do yourself, monitor those that do this, such as UFO Proof

2. join group who use consciousness and sounds to initiate contact with intra-dimensional ETs using a ET Contact Tool. Telepathic communication is an advanced form that ETs and humans may use in the future as science discovers the fabric of the universe deeper and the "supernatural" features of consciousness. 

If you choose to talk about ETs and UFOs here, you won't go far beyond the the usual banter. The skeptics won't accept anything other than a bodies or aliens or crafts to be examined and published in peer reviewed journals. Since places like S4 might hold such conclusive evidence, and other underground black project bases are unacknowedged and away from public access, we are not able to provide this evidence at this time. However you can do one of the top two methods yourself to solve the mystery. Talking about here, alone, is not sufficient and won't get far beyond "he's a proven fraud" "this is all fakes who want to make money, etc" nonsense. @stereologist @Merc14 

Security footage of UFO caught by homeland security camera in PR from 2013/14 and leaked to black vault 2016. 

This doesn't prove "extraterrestrial" aspect only the unidentified aspect. The owner of this channel is not sold on "aliens" per say, debunks videos left and right more than anyone here probably.

Skip to 8:14 for the video. Or watch from beginning to see dancing girl. Your choice ;)

 

1. The problem is that IR is not needed. You have given no reason for IR being a requirement or even a want.

2. There is zero evidence for telepathic communication.

You lay down what a reasonable person should expect and then pretend that this is too demanding. That is the sort of thing a gullible person wants. They want to lower the reasonable standards to something that allows for their foolishness to continue. You follow this up with the usually prattle about whatever as if those statements are in some vague way true. Look around the threads and find ones where someone took a video of Venus and denied it was Venus for page after page after page. It happens often.

I have pointed out two frauds in the UFO threads: seureteam10 and Scott Waring. Anyone with half a brain is going to side step those flim flam artists.

I see a black dot on an image that is very small.  The buildings in the background show how small the object is. The speeds of the object are small. It is likely to  be a UAV. And this is interesting for what reason?

 

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2 hours ago, Area201 said:

No, I will not provide links to those studies. 

Then I take it that what you stated is false. This is not the first time that you have made statements and have refused to back them  up.

You made a statement and I am calling your bluff. Time to post links.

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2 hours ago, Fila said:

NATIONAL PRESS CLUB

Nothing offered as a reason to watch this video.

I will tell everyone NOT to bother watching the video unless you want to see how pathetic UFO studies are done. This farcical video begins with the Phoenix lights event #1. The video shows a different video that the one taken of the event. That video of the event reveals that there is no giant craft. But please watch the video if you want to learn how easy it is to find witnesses that incorrectly describe what they think they saw.

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5 hours ago, Area201 said:

No, I will not provide links to those studies. 

Because there are no (scientific) studies but claims only. I expected nothing else.

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9 hours ago, Area201 said:

The problem: "now everyone has smartphones and cameras on them, why don't we see a massive increase in sightings? thus they are not real etc." The answer: cameras with infrared or thermal filter that can zoom in far away, are needed and most people don't have them. See security video below for an example of recording and tracking an unidentified object. 

You can:

1. go UFO hunting using infrared cameras, lasers, and apps to track known objects like satellites and planes. I suggest getting equipment and experimenting yourself, or if you cannot do yourself, monitor those that do this, such as UFO Proof

2. join group who use consciousness and sounds to initiate contact with intra-dimensional ETs using a ET Contact Tool. Telepathic communication is an advanced form that ETs and humans may use in the future as science discovers the fabric of the universe deeper and the "supernatural" features of consciousness. 

If you choose to talk about ETs and UFOs here, you won't go far beyond the the usual banter. The skeptics won't accept anything other than a bodies or aliens or crafts to be examined and published in peer reviewed journals. Since places like S4 might hold such conclusive evidence, and other underground black project bases are unacknowedged and away from public access, we are not able to provide this evidence at this time. However you can do one of the top two methods yourself to solve the mystery. Talking about here, alone, is not sufficient and won't get far beyond "he's a proven fraud" "this is all fakes who want to make money, etc" nonsense. @stereologist @Merc14 

Security footage of UFO caught by homeland security camera in PR from 2013/14 and leaked to black vault 2016. 

This doesn't prove "extraterrestrial" aspect only the unidentified aspect. The owner of this channel is not sold on "aliens" per say, debunks videos left and right more than anyone here probably.

Skip to 8:14 for the video. Or watch from beginning to see dancing girl. Your choice ;)

 

We have a member here that claims he has a personal relationship with an alien for many years. Apperently the alien is okay with having it's presence spoken of but is unwilling to give any samples for testing.

jmccr8

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On 15/12/2017 at 3:04 PM, DebDandelion said:

Hello Fila.

I have a challenge with your logic (bolded letters). For us (humans) to determine if the ufo is man made one has to touch and interact with an object.

And that is just it. Once we can interact with an object it won't be a ufo anymore.  My argument is that if someone claims they built it are you simply going to believe them? I for one won't, humans lie...so I want to see the designs...I want to see material used to built it and I want them to reproduce the first product...then I may believe they made it...now imagine if.someone comes forward and say they designed it first..... We will always have issues.

Global warming 'thing'.

We as humanity has questioned this...and we have been receiving proof of the statements made...hence it upholds.

We as humans don't just accept what is forced down our throats (well some of us) we are questioning everything and want proof and then we question the proof etc.

For me, evidence or proof of ufo's is problematic...heck Bigfoot proof...supernatural proof is problematic. 

A) videos or any digital recording can be edited. Whether the guy /girl taping it did edit is doesn't matter. It can be and has to be proven that it hasn't.

B) for every piece of evidence you will have a dedicated group of people trying to debunk what is found..until they aren't happy it will always have a cloud of wonder above the finding

I agree. Even if we analysed the images.., and found that it wasn't CGI. And somehow thru images proved the alleged big-foot had fine detailled hairs.., and no zipper or whatever.., we can never get proof of what it is. Just what it isn't. So the images will always.., at best.., best inconclusive. (Not proof) But an image in court is considered evidence.

On 15/12/2017 at 3:04 PM, DebDandelion said:

C)the fact that we.might have an object that we (humans) feel can proof extra terrestrial life doesn't mean we will convince all...

Yes.., this is something I think we should all agree on. Especially those who are adamant its definitely ET. They should just realise this.., and work around it.

On 15/12/2017 at 3:04 PM, DebDandelion said:

E) don't you think if aliens and people have met before it stands to reason there would be tangible proof? This lead to two scenarios...they are hiding the evidence to protect the aliens or themselves (cause we as a race experiment on what we don't understand)... They are still here...disguised...and we don't know it.

My point...when looking at best evidence one has to decide what is seen as Evidence...

I've been thinking about this post all week. Everything you said made me stop and think for a moment. Thank you.

What is evidence? And what would be considered evidence for UFOs?

If we look outside our window right now.., and saw a UFO hovering past. What could we do? I could make an observation. I have my phone and an iPad to take photos / video  And that's about it. I think ew are all agreeing images prove nothing.

Of course, there are people who mis-ID things.., for a multitude of reasons. Poor vision, un-knowledgeable in aircraft types, or celestial objects are the most obvious.., and generally what UFO witnesses "most likely" are all the time. But its those without poor vision, and who are well trained or logical enough to know what a bird, meteor, star, balloon, cloud, moon, etc etc are.., compared to what they describe. Its best to ignore the obvious mis-IDs and accept this happens. Rather than focusing on it, and using it to form a conclusion.

Next thing we do is check witness credibility.., but it never seems to make it past that. Because credibility and UFOs just don't go together. So they are automatically assumed to be lying, or stupid. And it gets dropped there.

And that seems to be it. UFOlogy 101.

 

*For the purpose of this thread.., UFO refers to objects in reports that are still unidentified.

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17 hours ago, stereologist said:

1. The problem is that IR is not needed. You have given no reason for IR being a requirement or even a want.

2. There is zero evidence for telepathic communication.

You lay down what a reasonable person should expect and then pretend that this is too demanding. That is the sort of thing a gullible person wants. They want to lower the reasonable standards to something that allows for their foolishness to continue. You follow this up with the usually prattle about whatever as if those statements are in some vague way true. Look around the threads and find ones where someone took a video of Venus and denied it was Venus for page after page after page. It happens often.

I have pointed out two frauds in the UFO threads: seureteam10 and Scott Waring. Anyone with half a brain is going to side step those flim flam artists.

I see a black dot on an image that is very small.  The buildings in the background show how small the object is. The speeds of the object are small. It is likely to  be a UAV. And this is interesting for what reason?

 

I guess you missed the part where it splits in two and doesn't appear to make a splash into the water.

Yes I too make fun of secureteam10 and not take it seriously.

Flir/IR maybe not absolutely necessary. But people who go about "ufo hunting" (attempting to capture footage of) have done so most successfully using infrared thermal imaging night vision and Infrared Cameras, not smartphones (documented on channel I posted video as one example < that's the summary). There was a big argument made somewhere here about how everyone has phones yet not much is captured by them. So that was the point of the comment as one explanation. Not sure how that was not clear.

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18 hours ago, stereologist said:

Then I take it that what you stated is false. This is not the first time that you have made statements and have refused to back them  up.

You made a statement and I am calling your bluff. Time to post links.

The statements in presentation refer to the research, referencing as one example Project Bluebook. Stanton doesn't use the term "UFO" but prefers "flying saucers" and gives reason for,and goes on.

I'm not here to do the work that's already been done by these researchers - Stanton Friedman, Richard Dolan, Robert M. Wood , Thomas F. Valone, Steven M. Greer. "Calling your bluff" Okay.

Post links to what? Peer reviewed articles on unacknowledged projects we can't access the facilities? The nature of the phenomenon prevents us from doing so. It's not a normal subject matter because it's beyond our scope of current knowledge. If it's physics beyond our understanding how are "peers" going to review it? there are none. That's why it's black. The conclusions and studies come not from the normal avenue. Proof comes mainly from field investigations like I posted, and secondarily from the mountain of circumstantial evidence and studies. There are no peer reviewed journals on the subject to "link to". This panel of researchers are experts / peers in the field.

The government evidence is just slowly being leaked in a managed way by the military - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

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On 15/12/2017 at 2:10 PM, stereologist said:

  In science it is appropriate to check and test and recheck what people believe. Did you know that science has overturned 3 results that were awarded the Nobel prize? That happens because real science, not ding dong UFO wackos, test and restest ideas to get it right.

I know what you mean. It just seems to be ding dongs researching UFOs. but there are a few good men out there trying to end this silly debate once and for all.

http://www.cnes-geipan.fr/index.php?id=206http://www.ufodata.nethttp://www.hessdalen.org/reports/hpreport84.shtml

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12 hours ago, Area201 said:

I guess you missed the part where it splits in two and doesn't appear to make a splash into the water.

Yes I too make fun of secureteam10 and not take it seriously.

Flir/IR maybe not absolutely necessary. But people who go about "ufo hunting" (attempting to capture footage of) have done so most successfully using infrared thermal imaging night vision and Infrared Cameras, not smartphones (documented on channel I posted video as one example < that's the summary). There was a big argument made somewhere here about how everyone has phones yet not much is captured by them. So that was the point of the comment as one explanation. Not sure how that was not clear.

I didn't bother to watch much. Now you mention another event. Is it really of interest?

Are people using IR because they think it is cool? I think people going to IR have no clear idea why they are doing it. Besides digital cameras are sensitive to near IR. A video taken of a remote control will show it going bright when the signal is sent.

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11 hours ago, Area201 said:

The statements in presentation refer to the research, referencing as one example Project Bluebook. Stanton doesn't use the term "UFO" but prefers "flying saucers" and gives reason for,and goes on.

I'm not here to do the work that's already been done by these researchers - Stanton Friedman, Richard Dolan, Robert M. Wood , Thomas F. Valone, Steven M. Greer. "Calling your bluff" Okay.

Post links to what? Peer reviewed articles on unacknowledged projects we can't access the facilities? The nature of the phenomenon prevents us from doing so. It's not a normal subject matter because it's beyond our scope of current knowledge. If it's physics beyond our understanding how are "peers" going to review it? there are none. That's why it's black. The conclusions and studies come not from the normal avenue. Proof comes mainly from field investigations like I posted, and secondarily from the mountain of circumstantial evidence and studies. There are no peer reviewed journals on the subject to "link to". This panel of researchers are experts / peers in the field.

The government evidence is just slowly being leaked in a managed way by the military - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

You mixed people that are researchers with a joke like Greer. I am not supporting any  of the others, but Greer is a waste of time.

You have made a number of rather ridiculous claims. Instead of supporting t hose stories you suggest you can't because the information is "unacknowledged projects we can't access the facilities?" Seriously? Where did you get the dumb claims come from? Did you just make them up and hope no one would ask about them? Did you get the ideas from a faker like Greer?

You ask "If it's physics beyond our understanding how are "peers" going to review it?"  What nut ever made up the story that it's physics beyond our understanding?

"Proof comes mainly from field investigations like I posted" Really? There is no proof. There is dubious evidence or maybe even just anecdotes, yarns, and tall stories.

"There are no peer reviewed journals on the subject to "link to". This panel of researchers are experts / peers in the field." LOL. They are usually self appointed story tellers trying to collect money from the wallets of the gullible.

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11 hours ago, Fila said:

I know what you mean. It just seems to be ding dongs researching UFOs. but there are a few good men out there trying to end this silly debate once and for all.

http://www.cnes-geipan.fr/index.php?id=206http://www.ufodata.nethttp://www.hessdalen.org/reports/hpreport84.shtml

Are you finally accepting that it is not necessary to debunk or show UFO tales to be false?

It is the responsibility of the UFO story tellers to show that their ideas have merit.

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13 minutes ago, stereologist said:

You mixed people that are researchers with a joke like Greer. I am not supporting any  of the others, but Greer is a waste of time.

You have made a number of rather ridiculous claims. Instead of supporting t hose stories you suggest you can't because the information is "unacknowledged projects we can't access the facilities?" Seriously? Where did you get the dumb claims come from? Did you just make them up and hope no one would ask about them? Did you get the ideas from a faker like Greer?

You ask "If it's physics beyond our understanding how are "peers" going to review it?"  What nut ever made up the story that it's physics beyond our understanding?

"Proof comes mainly from field investigations like I posted" Really? There is no proof. There is dubious evidence or maybe even just anecdotes, yarns, and tall stories.

"There are no peer reviewed journals on the subject to "link to". This panel of researchers are experts / peers in the field." LOL. They are usually self appointed story tellers trying to collect money from the wallets of the gullible.

Ridiculous, when Greer had the balls to put together a panel of witnesses in Washington that was a landmark moment in ufology, his assessment of the phenomenon, black projects, the reasons for the secrecy, and protocols for contact, zero point energy project, these were landmark steps in the disclosure movement and help steer technology in a responsible application, in contrast to your old and repetitive commentary behind a keyboard which is -yawn- and a waste of time. 

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Just now, Area201 said:

Ridiculous, when Greer had the balls to put together a panel of witnesses in Washington that was a landmark moment in ufology, his assessment of the phenomenon, black projects, the reasons for the secrecy, and protocols for contact, zero point energy project, these were landmark steps in the disclosure movement and help steer technology in a responsible application, in contrast to your old and repetitive commentary behind a keyboard which is -yawn- and a waste of time. 

The Disclosure Project is a joke. How could anyone with half a brain think that the disclosure project was anything other than a joke?

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On 18/12/2017 at 5:35 AM, stereologist said:

Are you finally accepting that it is not necessary to debunk or show UFO tales to be false?

It is the responsibility of the UFO story tellers to show that their ideas have merit.

http://www.ufodata.nethttp://www.hessdalen.org/reports/hpreport84.shtml 

I don't know man... If you look at these links we will see how involved it would be to get credible scientific data. A UFO witness is just a normal person like most of us here. If we turned to look out our window right now and saw a UFO.., all we can do is look at it and take some pics.., which will never be proof.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/314077-can-a-picturevideo-prove-ets-exist/

I don't think a witness needs to prove their story happened. All they are doing is making an observation. Its impossible to prove to you, that I saw anything.

I know where you are coming from though. You just hate people making up UFO stories.., and you need them verified. That's ok.

I just attack it from a different angle. I don't worry about YouTube cases, and what some random guy claims to have seen. I prefer to look at high profile credible cases where witnesses have given their full names, and can provide secondary forms evidence.., which is all they can really get.

Edited by Fila
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On 12/16/2017 at 11:44 AM, jmccr8 said:

We have a member here that claims he has a personal relationship with an alien for many years. Apperently the alien is okay with having it's presence spoken of but is unwilling to give any samples for testing.

jmccr8

We do? who is it? I have no contact with "aliens", if they aren't willing to provide samples what's the point of even talking about it publicly? What's the objective of the communication, you know? Sounds like bs to me.

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On 12/16/2017 at 9:58 AM, toast said:

Because there are no (scientific) studies but claims only. I expected nothing else.

I expect to see the gif of toast buttering himself, nothing else. Disappointed. 

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1 minute ago, Area201 said:

I expect to see the gif of toast buttering himself, nothing else. Disappointed. 

Dream on.

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1 hour ago, Area201 said:

We do? who is it? I have no contact with "aliens", if they aren't willing to provide samples what's the point of even talking about it publicly? What's the objective of the communication, you know? Sounds like bs to me.

Mr.Walker if you want to ask him go ahead.

jmccr8

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9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Mr.Walker if you want to ask him go ahead.

jmccr8

@Mr Walker

Hey there. What's the point of even talking about it publicly? What's the objective of the communication? Some people have a "mission" with contacts or some wisdom to tell mankind, you can reveal yours if any?

 

Edited by Area201
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2 hours ago, Area201 said:

Ridiculous, when Greer had the balls to put together a panel of witnesses in Washington that was a landmark moment in ufology,

IMO the only thing the disclosure project disclosed is how many people want to jump on the band wagon in order to earn some money via the pathetic ufo data they class as evidence!

Utter poppy c***..........

here's a fact:

the disclosure project has produced NO FACTS

can you show us A FACT any of these individuals have produced?

 

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2 minutes ago, Area201 said:

@Mr Walker

Hey there. What's the point of even talking about it publicly? What's the objective of the communication? Some people have a "mission" with contacts or some wisdom to tell mankind, you can reveal yours if any?

 

I don't know if you noticed this or not but I am jmccr8 and Mr.Walker is the guy you were asking about, so no I don't have an alien he does. you can look up his profile and read his posts or look for him in the religion and spirituality forums here.

jmccr8

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