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Publications on Hate Ideology Fill US Mosque

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NEW REPORT ON SAUDI GOVERNMENT PUBLICATIONS IN U.S.

WASHINGTON, DC, January 28, 2005- Freedom House’s Center for Religious Freedom released today a new report exposing the dissemination of hate propaganda in America by the government of Saudi Arabia.

The 89-page report, “Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Fill American Mosques,” is based on a year-long study of over two hundred original documents, all disseminated, published or otherwise generated by the government of Saudi Arabia and collected from more than a dozen mosques in the United States.

The propagation of hate ideology by Saudi Arabia is known to be worldwide, but its occurrence within the United States has received scant attention until now. Within worldwide Sunni Islam, followers of Saudi Arabia’s extremist Wahhabi ideology are a distinct minority, as is evident by the millions of Muslims who have chosen to make America their home and are upstanding, law-abiding citizens and neighbors.

The report concludes that the Saudi government propaganda examined reflects a “totalitarian ideology of hatred that can incite to violence,” and the fact that it is “being mainstreamed within our borders through the efforts of a foreign government, namely Saudi Arabia, demands our urgent attention.” The report finds: “Not only does the government of Saudi Arabia not have a right – under the First Amendment or any other legal document – to spread hate ideology within U.S. borders, it is committing a human rights violation by doing so.”

Such publications that “advocate an ideology of hatred have no place in a nation founded on religious freedom and toleration,” write James Woolsey, chairman of the board of Freedom House, in the foreword to the report.

Among the key findings of the report:

· Various Saudi government publications gathered for this study, most of which are in Arabic, assert that it is a religious obligation for Muslims to hate Christians and Jews and warn against imitating, befriending, or helping them in any way, or taking part in their festivities and celebrations;

· The documents promote contempt for the United States because it is ruled by legislated civil law rather than by totalitarian Wahhabi-style Islamic law. They condemn democracy as un-Islamic;

· The documents stress that when Muslims are in the lands of the unbelievers, they must behave as if on a mission behind enemy lines. Either they are there to acquire new knowledge and make money to be later employed in the jihad against the infidels, or they are there to proselytize the infidels until at least some convert to Islam. Any other reason for lingering among the unbelievers in their lands is illegitimate, and unless a Muslim leaves as quickly as possible, he or she is not a true Muslim and so too must be condemned. For example, a document in the collection for the “Immigrant Muslim” bears the words “Greetings from the Cultural Attache in Washington, D.C.” of the Embassy of Saudi Arabia, and is published by the government of Saudi Arabia. In an authoritative religious voice, it gives detailed instructions on how to “hate” the Christian and Jew: Never greet them first. Never congratulate the infidel on his holiday. Never imitate the infidel. Do not become a naturalized citizen of the United States. Do not wear a graduation gown because this imitates the infidel;

· One insidious aspect of the Saudi propaganda examined is its aim to replace traditional and moderate interpretations of Islam with extremist Wahhabism, the officially-established religion of Saudi Arabia. In these documents, other Muslims, especially those who advocate tolerance, are condemned as infidels. The opening fatwa in one Saudi embassy-distributed book, published by the Saudi Air Force, responds to a question about a Muslim preacher in a European mosque who taught that it is not right to condemn Jews and Christians as infidels. The Saudi state cleric’s reply rebukes the Muslim cleric: “He who casts doubts about their infidelity leaves no doubt about his.” Since, under Saudi law, “apostates” from Islam can be sentenced to death, this is an implied death threat against the tolerant Muslim imam, as well as an incitement to vigilante violence;

· Sufi and Shiite Muslims are viciously condemned;

· For a Muslim who fails to uphold the Saudi Wahhabi sect’s sexual mores (i.e. through homosexual activity or heterosexual activity outside of marriage), the edicts published by the Saudi government’s Ministry of Islamic Affairs, and found in American mosques advise, “it would be lawful for Muslims to spill his blood and to take his money;”

· Regarding those who convert out of Islam, the Saudi Ministry of Islamic Affairs explicitly asserts, they “should be killed;”

· Saudi textbooks and other publications in the collection, propagate a Nazi-like hatred for Jews, treat the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical fact, and avow that the Muslim’s duty is to eliminate the state of Israel;

· Regarding women, the Saudi publications instruct that they should be veiled, segregated from men and barred from certain employment and roles;

The report states: “While the government of Saudi Arabia claims to be ‘updating’ or reforming its textbooks and study materials within the Kingdom, its publications propagating an ideology of hatred remain plentiful in some prominent American mosques and Islamic centers, and continue to be a principal resource available to students of Islam within the United States.”

The research, translation and principle analysis of the materials for the report were carried out by both Muslims and non-Muslims who wish to remain anonymous for reasons of security. Some 90 percent of the publications are in Arabic; two independent translators reviewed each Arabic document. This project was undertaken after many Muslims requested the Center’s help in exposing Saudi extremism in the hope of freeing their communities from ideological strangulation.

Center for Religious Freedom

Complete report available here.

Edited by Kellalor

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These oil rich primitive fanatics from another age are far from being qualified to determine the 'fidelity' or 'infidelity' of others.

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well , i can only say that saudian's are very strick muslims and they invent laws of there own and say it's islamic while it's not ...

in this report u said several THINGS as they are islamic laws or obligation while they are against islam ....

first , it's right that most arabs hate america and some other nations but that feeling has nothing to do with religion....

islam doesn't tell muslims to hate christians and muslims , in fact islam tell muslims to be good to them and treat them well , idare anyone to give me evidence that islam encourage hatred against non muslims ... the prophet Mohammad teached muslims how to respect non muslims .... the only non muslims a muslim is to hate are those who fight muslims ...

in islam the one who isn't married and commit heterosexual is to be hitted with the web (or something like that ) , the one who is married and commit that is to be killed , his money is not to be touched ...

muslims aren't taught to hate jews , and as we believe that israel is nothing but a conquestal illegal being , and zions everyday kill arabs there and destroy them so defending ou land and taking back our rights is a muslims duty ...

and there was no religion that gave woman her rights like islam , also the religious freedom .....

i don't know who did those researches but any muslim child can with his basic knowledge about islam denay such false statements ......

for more information u can read the true sources of islamic laws and histroy ...

here is a brief article about woman in islam

http://www.bouti.com/bouti_e_lectures3.htm

and A Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam

http://www.islam-guide.com/

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Okay what about the cleric hook from britian who was aloud to preach the killing of americans and westeners on the streets of london

the police shut of the road for him and his jumped up bunch of ar-e holes to fill the minds of ordinary people with death and distruction

He is a muslim,

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well , i remember when i visited London i was in the bus when some christian man started shouting in people about the end and terror and stuff , we didn't say he was a christian , we said he is a mad MAN or drunk ...

now, well u judge something based on the acts of it's followers ? would say if a cop stealed that the security system is wrong? same about judgemental same about other religions ....

so do u accept that i say that what the crossaders did was from christianaty ? that killing scientist in mid centuries and other things are from christianity ? ....

just answer that .....

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Im not taking the p-ss but half your post i cant make out ,,,i may be not the brainiest on the block but half of it makes no sense

You are going back to the days of old ,i was explaining a situation that has happened now ,

This cleric is in jail right know waiting deportation to another country for a crime he commited there

This very same man for the last few years has never denied his hatred for britian ,america and the west as a hole

He asured every one he was a devout muslim and what he preached was in the koran........i hope it is the koran...if im wrong please forgive

Many young people listened to him and left britian to go and fight the holy wars

Many have never came back

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This very same man for the last few years has never denied his hatred for britian ,america and the west as a hole

He asured every one he was a devout muslim and what he preached was in the koran........i hope it is the koran...if im wrong please forgive

I haven't seen any Quranic verse that says Muslims should hate Britain, America and the west as a whole no.gif I don't recommend learning about Islam through the doubtful lectures of the hook. no.gif

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what iam saying that u r judging islam based on what one person did or do ....

even if a million muslims done something , will u say that islam told them to do that ?

What Does Islam Say about Terrorism?

Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism. In the Quran, God has said:

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,1 and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}2 And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}3

Also, the Prophet Muhammad has forbidden punishment with fire.4

He once listed murder as the second of the major sins,5 and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.6}7

Muslims are even encouraged to be kind to animals and are forbidden to hurt them. Once the Prophet Muhammad said: {A woman was punished because she imprisoned a cat until it died. On account of this, she was doomed to Hell. While she imprisoned it, she did not give the cat food or drink, nor did she free it to eat the insects of the earth.}8

He also said that a man gave a very thirsty dog a drink, so God forgave his sins for this action. The Prophet was asked, “Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?” He said: {There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human.}9

Additionally, while taking the life of an animal for food, Muslims are commanded to do so in a manner that causes the least amount of fright and suffering possible. The Prophet Muhammad said: {When you slaughter an animal, do so in the best way. One should sharpen his knife to reduce the suffering of the animal.}10

In light of these and other Islamic texts, the act of inciting terror in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men, women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to Islam and the Muslims. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the vast majority have nothing to do with the violent events some have associated with Muslims. If an individual Muslim were to commit an act of terrorism, this person would be guilty of violating the laws of Islam.

(For more articles on Islam on terrorism,

http://www.islam-guide.com/more/#Islam-on-Terrorism )

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so if a muslim said something is islamic , does that make it ? what is said about islam is clearly against islamic teachings ......

-----------------

and for what u said about the past and the present , remeber that the freedom u live in and the development in ur counties isn't a result of religious teachings or laws , it is a result of laws puted by man , so most of the laws and acts are outside religion ....

and because muslims don't follow at this age islamic teachings they are late and a third world countries , most of muslims today don't follow islam , so refering their actions to islam is very wrong ....

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As per usual you all jump on the band wagon and start sprouting of this that and the next

I am telling you of one person,the cleric we call the hook ,as he has a hook where his hand used to be

I said one man not every muslim

And i say again if you read posts a bit more carefully.YOU said show me one man

I have and as soon as i did you start changing the lingo....stick to your and my post and dont stray of ,which you are very good at

If you still dont want to listen to me then ask the many british people ion this site if they have heard of sutch a man and let them fill you in with the rest

I will say again ,i never said at any moment that ALL muslims were in the same mould

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what do u mean buy jumping and lingo and stuff , what exactlly do u want to proof by this hook man ....

and i don't recall saying give me one man , can u tell me where i said that ?

i said give me one evidence , an evidence that proof that islam tell muslims to hate christians and jews , the acts of any muslim is not a proof as i was saying before ....

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ok let me tell u why many arabs (muslims and christians) hate America , Britian and the west as a whole .....

have u forgottn that Europe countries in the near yesturday were conquesting our countries , killing our people , destroying our home's ...

and after their military conquest was defeated , they left another kind of conquest , cultural one .....

and as we see such countries attacking islam and islamci laws ..

and what France did of forbidding hijab is an example of that ...

and the attempts to make arab countries rule with man made rules , not by islam ....

also what usa did by attacking afganistan and iraq and killing and humilating it's people .......

finally , because of the sore of this world , the zionic being in palestine which without UK and USA and their support it couldn't last .....

-------------------

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Your words.. It is the right of most arabs to hate americans and some other nations.

Arent these arabs muslim?

The word HATE comes into your post...is that in there book of beliefs.

You then sayislam doesnt tell Muslims to hate christians and muslims.

Islam is what the Cleric Hook Preached freely for years and HATRED was the one word he used daily.untill put in prison

My point was and is Hook is a Muslim,He teaches Islam and he has said in many ocations---even live on SKY NEWS To kill any body no matter what religion who stands against Islamic views and princebils,and for every muslim to rise up from all over the world and go fight the holy war where it be in Iraq,Palestine ,america or Britian

I dont believe for one moment that every muslim in the world is going to listen to him but a few did and they have paid with there lives

Do you now see where i was comming from...and that was without useing hundreds of years of back dated history

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Islam is what the Cleric Hook Preached freely for years

That's where you go wrong, warden. yes.gif Islam is a specific phenomenon and we simply can not take the words of any idiot like Hook as representing Islam. In fact the Hook has absolutely no followers in the Islamic world. The people that supported his views were mainly young Muslims, born or at least grown up in Britain (look at the profile of the British al-qaeda guys just returned home). Therefore one can not ignore the dynamics of the British society and its role in forming these kids who listen to a fanatic, dangerous fool like the Hook. To find the roots of the problem, an analysis of the British society is needed as well. yes.gif Like how much racism these kids have been exposed to all their lives, and this sort of stuff. hmm.gif

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and once again u respond to things i didn't say ...

did i say americans and british ? no , there is a difference between America and americans , Britain and british ....

and what i said weren't hundreds of years ago , these things that happened , happening and will happen , what i said that that's why many arabs hate these countries , that their religion has nothing to do with that hatered ....

Islam is what the Cleric Hook Preached freely for years and HATRED was the one word he used daily.untill put in prison

and who are u to say that is islam ? will u take a one person's speech and neglect what is in Quran , what The Prophet said , and what countless muslims scientists and scholars have said and are saying from the begining of islam .....

and unlike other religions , in islam the islamic teachers , scientists and scholars don't have a special holy being ... meaning that their only job is to explain islam and teach it and study it , so no one of them can invent laws and things and say that is islam ..... so if the greatest muslim scientist said (for example) something that's against Quran and simple islam teachings , no one will follow him and he would be sined ....

so please bother ur self to read Quran and the origins of islamic laws , don't worry we have only one Quran so u wont search too much, just don't say something about islam based about what u hear or feel ......

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Cyberlord, I think the point that is being made is that it is not just one Islamic cleric that is saying killing of non-Muslims is okay. It is many. The original post and topic of this thread is that anti-American, anti-Christian and anti-Jewish material has been found in Mosques here in the United states. This leads one to believe, correctly or incorrectly, that a growing number of Islamic leaders are preaching hate to their followers.

The link you provided about Islamic law is very informative, but is is written by those who do not follow the strict interpatations of the Wahhabi ideology of Islam.

Having done a study of Islam, and many of the things you say are, according to Islamic teaching, very correct. However, a large portion of the world sees suicide bombers killing innocent women and children, and saying that it's okay because they will be rewarded for doing so. This is the education that the general population gets from Islam. There are websites, often quoted in the news, that encourage hate and murder of non-muslims.

I'm not saying what you have posted is incorrect, but the fact remains, many in the Muslim world are using Islam as a reason and justification to murder innocent people. All in the name of God and Allah.

Please, without being offended as that is NOT my intention, explain how that can be? It seems more and more Islamic clerics are calling for jihad against non-Muslims.

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STILLCRAZY thank you very much

I know mosqs are being used in britian to brain wash young easily led muslims and non muslims into doing horific acts,some thing they would probarly never think of doing untill being told by a higher power that you will be forgiven by alah and be welcomed with open arms etc

Some mosqs were being used for passport fruad ,getting people from other countries giveing them false id and then haveing the freedom to go any where in the world undetected....why?

When people on this site show me this and that ,i dont believe you and you show them ,they still dont believe you and start to blame others or attack you

It has become the norm ...so sad

My post was saying for the people who are easily blinded,If a cleric who is a muslim,who preched hatred and violence in the name of Islam recruited some one who was easily fooled planted a bomb in a british street and blew up your family while out shoping would your view still be the same

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iam not offended , in fact i respect ur oppinion ....

first i don't know what is the meaning of cleric (sorry but iam not a native speaker )

the confussing sometimes may happen when people think that these people are good muslims ...

in islam is a complete system that is not only praying and doing religious duties .. islam view is far deeper than that , it extind to all life .... once people said to the prophet that a woman do all religios duties and pray and .... but she hurts her neighbours , then the prophet said she is in hell ......

and these ways like wahhabi starts when someone that is religious and a good person start to teach muslims , so the followers are named on his name , and the followers teach another generation and so on … but the wrong all wrong when they start to be stric and invent laws from their own and say that is islam ……

another thing that the writers of the research are unknown so u can't say this is a trusty research …. But as I don't live in suadi then there is a possibility that the research is right ….

Now imagine this … most of muslims don't follow islam …. Islamic countries don't rule with islam , as a result we are the lowest countries …. So when this religious man sees that and feels the humiliation of the situation then (as pressure makes explosion) he wants to change it … but instead of following the teachings of islam he take it to an extreme and become stric that will do anything (even if it against islam it self !) to success ……

Another type of them those who don't know islam well , and they learn islam from such stric people … so when there teachers teach them something they follow it because they think it is islam ….

Another type are who misunderstand islam and take the shell leaving the essence …

These people when they reach that level they start to take what they like from islam and leave what they don't like and start to make laws of their own …

There is something I want to clearify , first the term of holy war have never been used by muslims from the beginnig of their history …

As to the term Jihad … in islam jihad is used by different meaning like jihad of the self which means to do all what u can so u follow God's way and don't follow the devil ….. and other meanings , but as for the military meaning then that it's two parts …. 1- fighting the people who enslave there nations and don't allow the religious freedom ( in this age this goal is not needed any more ) … 2- to protect the Islamic nations from those who attack them ….

So jihad is an Islamic healthy princible and it is logical like what Palestinians do against zion's in Palestine and other Islamic nations ….

But jihad is not called jihad and it's not allowed by islam unless it had certain characteristics which are called jihad morals or ethicts ….so when the people who pretend to fight under the name of islam and starts to kill children , women , old men , innocent people and unarmed … or don't follow the morals of jihad … these people aren't true muslims …….

And I think that when u read Islamic history at the time that muslims were truly muslims and they were the greatest nation who taught the world freedom , science and how to live u will see what I mean

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my last post was for STILLCRAZY

as for u warden i still don't know what is ur point and what are u trying to say ....

just tell me ur opinion in a clear sentence honestly and directly ...

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This is not to get at you Cyberlord or any one else before i start

In Britian i know we are only told by all aspects of the media what makes so called headline news,so like every one else...i hope...i take most of it with a big pinch of salt

We as a country are becoming a joke...Britian.....our borders are open to abuse that its becoming a joke

Many people are comming here for good reasons but there are many who are comming here for a certain reason...to be trained in the art of terism...sorry for the spelling...There are mosqe`s getting used by muslims to preach hatred and to brain wash many young men into believing that to sacrafice your self in the name of Alah ,no matter how many inocent people you kill is fine

The name cleric i think is similar if you were a priest in the catholic church,any way there are clerics who preach peace ,thats what i would expect and there are clerics who preach hatred ,violence,death to all people who dare stand in there way no matter what country or religion you are from

These same clerics are all muslim and all preach the islamic faith

This is why i think many muslims in Britian are confused ,one minute they are peacefull and full of love and the next violent and full of hate

If the clerics who are teaching peace and harmony openly know the ones who are teaching violence and murder why arent they doing any thing about it,instead they leave it to the media to hipe it up,which inturn turns non muslims against peacefull muslims and then we end up with the tag of RACIST

This is what my point was ,some times as you have noticed i am not the best at getting my point across

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The name cleric i think is similar if you were a priest in the catholic church,

well i think that's the point of confussen u have ... in islam no one no matter how religious he was no matter how islamic knowledge he have has a holy state ..... there is no such thing in islam as priest or pope or anything like that , islamic scientists only teach islam and explain it ... they don't have a holy being that makes them can't mistake or what they say is true .. nothing like that ....

and please , haven't i prooven that these have nothing to do with islam , that they have there own sick way of thinking ... the thing that happens is that make the followers of there thinking under the cover of religion , there is one islam , and islam says one thing about this ...

and that also proofs that they don't hold islamic faith , they even don't know islam well or they want to pass through these ideas under the cover of islam ....

mosques as they are a place of praying and worshiping in islam , they until now a places of learning and education in both normal science and islamic , these people teach in mosques and pass through there ideas to ignorant muslims ... mosques don't produce terrorism ......

let me tell u somethings these people or clercks or what u call them that u seperated muslims into team of them and team of who call for peace , how many are they ? thousands ? million ? 10 million ? even if we said that they are TEN MILLIONS , do u know that muslims are more than 1/5 of the world population ? how can u generalise a minority on the majority ?.......

another thing to make my point clear , what do u think crossaders , those who killed and slayed muslims in the name of christianity ? about spain that it's army entered north africa singing in killing muslims ? what about britain that conquested many islamic countries ? france that did the same and recently they forbad hijab ? Bush that said that the war he is making is a crossader war ?

let's take a crossaders for example , they weren't a groub or organization they were whole beings , blessed by priests and popes to conquest islamic world , they killed , slaved , did horrible things that even their sons of today are ashamed of in the name of christianaty , tell me do u agree that i say that was from christianaty ?

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The name cleric i think is similar if you were a priest in the catholic church,

well i think that's the point of confussen u have ... in islam no one no matter how religious he was no matter how islamic knowledge he have has a holy state ..... there is no such thing in islam as priest or pope or anything like that , islamic scientists only teach islam and explain it ... they don't have a holy being that makes them can't mistake or what they say is true .. nothing like that ....

and please , haven't i prooven that these have nothing to do with islam , that they have there own sick way of thinking ... the thing that happens is that make the followers of there thinking under the cover of religion , there is one islam , and islam says one thing about this ...

and that also proofs that they don't hold islamic faith , they even don't know islam well or they want to pass through these ideas under the cover of islam ....

mosques as they are a place of praying and worshiping in islam , they until now a places of learning and education in both normal science and islamic , these people teach in mosques and pass through there ideas to ignorant muslims ... mosques don't produce terrorism ......

let me tell u somethings these people or clercks or what u call them that u seperated muslims into team of them and team of who call for peace , how many are they ? thousands ? million ? 10 million ? even if we said that they are TEN MILLIONS , do u know that muslims are more than 1/5 of the world population ? how can u generalise a minority on the majority ?.......

another thing to make my point clear , what do u think crossaders , those who killed and slayed muslims in the name of christianity ? about spain that it's army entered north africa singing in killing muslims ? what about britain that conquested many islamic countries ? france that did the same and recently they forbad hijab ? Bush that said that the war he is making is a crossader war ?

let's take a crossaders for example , they weren't a groub or organization they were whole beings , blessed by priests and popes to conquest islamic world , they killed , slaved , did horrible things that even their sons of today are ashamed of in the name of christianaty , tell me do u agree that i say that was from christianaty ?

472054[/snapback]

only people that have a faith have confussion ,not me

you mention priest or pope where did you get that from?

I seperated no one into any thing,you did though,How many are they,you are trying to give figures,i only gave you a few examples to start with

I didnt generalise,but you are trying to ...i wonder why

You keep bringing up the past..hhhmmm,i wonder why,stick to what is happening now

back to the pope angle,have you got some thing against christians?

Why would i agree with any thing you say when you try to bend and twist the start of my post into some thing that makes you feel better about your self

I dont believe in any form of religion,thats why i dont drag the past up about invasions,wars crusades...99% of the time done threw the lie of religion

When you ask in future of generaliseation,dont bend it to attack a post in future just dont ask

The last thing i will say is this ,,,,,why is it every one i speak to about religions,gods you all seem to be taken HEART ATTACKS

Relax forget religion andlike me have no worries and enjoy life,i know i do....do you?

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Now I see the secret of ur argument …..

First of all what I was going to say was based on the fact that who iam talking to is christian or at least have a religion so forget what I said….

And u have separated muslims or clerics as u like to call them to who wants peace and who want terror , I didn't give u figures because these people are very little and a less of a minority … they are lost sheeps and when u take these people as an example of islam that's very wrong ……..

And I don't have anything against christians , I can't keep repeating my self …

And I think I made my self clear many times , where exactly iam twisting ?

When you ask in future of generaliseation,dont bend it to attack a post in future just dont ask

didn't understand

believe me , I didn't have a heart attack … and do u really enjoy ur life? ……..

please , I don't anyone in this age with the great scientific development can still of not believing in God …..

and I have a strong faith in my religion I don't fear to read about other believes and discuss them as I believe not religion is better and nothing can destroy my belief , that's why I read about everything u can imagine , christianity , jewish , wicca , ancient religions , buddhest and far more , and every time my believe increases in islam …..

so , do u have strong believe that there is no God ? then have u entered the sites I mentioned before? , if u have strong believe why r u afraid ?

I think that's also what makes me feel when I read ur posts that u don't know what u r talking about and what u r basing on , as I repeat the same fact u keep asking about it ..

Sorry if u looked offensive …….

Edited by cyberlord

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I agree with stillcrazy

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I agree with stillcrazy

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ya ,and i think i made up my point very clear ... if not so please say .....

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Whats not clear, I agree with Still

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