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Disinterested

Should we allow Plastic Surgery?

24 posts in this topic

Debate topic by kikuchiyo.

Many people see plastic surgery as an improvement to our bodies, where we can fix any imperfections that we may see to make ourselves feel more comfortable with our image. Others may argue that plastic surgery is nothing but a degradation to the human body, and we should accept the bodies that we were born with.

Looking for two people for a formal, 1 vs 1 debate. One person will debate in favour of plastic surgery, and the other will debate against it.

Any questions, feel free to send me a PM. thumbsup.gif

Edited by Lottie

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Posted (edited)

I will debate FOR plastic Surgery! Edited by Kryso

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Fabulous! thumbsup.gifKryso will be debating FOR plastic surgery.

Now looking for one more person to oppose him. original.gif

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wavey.gif I'll oppose.

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Great!!!

Kryso will debate for plastic surgery;

SnuffyPuffer will debate against plastic surgery.

Any questions, please feel free to send Lottie or myself a PM. thumbsup.gif

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I am for Plastic Surgery and Cosmetic Alterations.

No matter whom you are or how great you look, every single person - even if they refuse to admit it to friends or themselves – are not happy with one aspect of their body. Be it a nose to long or sloped, a non-existent chin or saggy eyes, to much fat around the waist or thighs, breast to small or in some cases to large; every person has a area of their body, that if they could, they would change!

The beauty of plastic surgery is now everyone has the opportunity to change that aspect of themselves. Granted sometimes a lot of money is involved. But in some cases the person in question can get help medically with the cost when it is effecting them physically or emotionally.

An example from the BBC News

Health / Plastic surgery benefits 'underestimated'

Prof Fitzpatrick told BBC News Online...

"For many patients receiving cosmetic surgery the benefits, in terms of health and quality of life, were very substantial and from that we concluded that one should not think of this as a purely cosmetic procedure," he said.

Link

Benefits of Plastic Surgery

The physical result of plastic surgery produces a healthier look and the ramifications are immense, as this healthy look will often permeate to the patient's entire lifestyle. People who have surgeries like liposuction and breast reduction usually feel more comfortable in their clothes, that their new bodies allow them to participate in physical activities that they wouldn't have considered before surgery. Plastic surgery can open new doors to people who have previously lived their lives sheltered. They find themselves participating in activities they never would have in the past such as swimming or aerobics, due to their renewed confidence.

Taken from MyBodyPart.com.

Link

And also not forgetting plastic surgery that can be performed when someone is disfigured through cancer! Women with breast cancer at one time had no alternative but to use a type of mold that they inserted down their empty bra. Now with today’s surgery they can have a breast built from their existing skin and bodily fats.

Reconstruction of a breast that has been removed due to cancer or other disease is one of the most rewarding surgical procedures available today. New medical techniques and devices have made it possible for surgeons to create a breast that can come close in form and appearance to matching a natural breast. Frequently, reconstruction is possible immediately following breast removal (mastectomy), so the patient wakes up with a breast mound already in place, having been spared the experience of seeing herself with no breast at all.

American Society of Plastic Surgeons Plastic Surgery Educational Foundation

Link

And not forgetting people who are disfigured due to accidents and health that can – and do - benefit from plastic surgery.

The Scope of Plastic Surgery

Approximately 30% is acute surgery referred from accident and emergency departments. Around 50% of patients are referred directly from their general practitioners for management of a whole range of conditions. Variable amounts of reconstructive surgery are carried out in collaboration with other surgical disciplines, for example orthopaedic, ENT and maxillofacial surgeons. This accounts for approximately 20% of the work done in plastic surgery units.

Link

There has been an increasing appreciation among the public of the scope and ability of plastic surgeons to satisfy reconstructive demands. This has been accompanied by an increased potential to realise these demands by new developments in techniques.

Plastic surgery covers a very large field and can be considered under the following clinical areas (This is not an exhaustive list):

Congenital  [Congenital - are those that are present from birth]

# breast and chest wall defects

# cleft lip and palate and other facial deformities

# craniofacial defects

# limb defects

# skin defects

# urogenital defects (including hypospadias)

Trauma

and burns  [Trauma, conditions caused by accidents, and can either be BLUNT (car/motorcycle crash injuries), or PENETRATING (stabbings, gunshots), or BURNS]

# Burns

# Face

# Hand

# Lower limb

# Scars + tattoos

Neoplasms

[Neoplasms: means conditions that are "new growths", and are either:

BENIGN - i.e. not "cancerous" or;

# MALIGNANT - i.e. "cancerous"] Breast

# Head + neck

# Skin -benign

# Skin -malignant

# Soft tissue

# Other areas  Pressure sores

# Reconstruction of large defects

# Venous ulcers

# Degenerative hand conditions

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I'm against plastic surgery for anything but serious defects.

Poor body image

It is true that most people have a flaw or two that they tend to worry about. But many times, small defects actually add to a person's allure. For instance, can you imagine Cindy Crawford without the mole? For the most part, a little pudge here or a mark there is nothing to worry about, and most people actually like to see a small blemish here or there. It makes a person seem much more real and approachable.

The problem here is that the mass media today has given us an unrealistic expectation of what a human body is supposed to look like, especially young, impressionable people.

being surrounded by images of unnatural bodies in the media that have been through digital alteration and special lighting, some cosmetic surgeons are being extra cautious of performing procedures on young patients that have formed unhealthy bodily images.

source

For instances such as this, fostering a positive environment, where people are accepted for who they are as individuals rather than their outward appearance, is a much better way to mold healthy, productive members of society. Plastic surgery is a "quick fix" to modify a person to fit an unrealistic ideal, and as such is an unhealthy way to approach self improvement.

I hope that was appropriately short, sweet and to the point.

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Plastic surgery is a "quick fix" to modify a person to fit an unrealistic ideal, and as such is an unhealthy way to approach self improvement.

True, plastic surgery is used for self improvement. But has not an intelligent species such as humans the right to make personally decisions on how they look? If a single person has had 5 or even 20 plastic surgical operations, is it not the given right of that individual to decide how far to go?

Is it not the same as body piercing? Some may not agree with a person with an eyebrow and top-part of the ear being pierced (such as I have), but is it not the individuals right to how far they go? Or even tattooing?

An adult with all their thinking faculties should have the right and power to do anything they wish to their own body if it doesn’t affect or harm another.

My point is, if it’s not hurting anyone else, why can not an adult decide what to do with their own body!

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But has not an intelligent species such as humans the right to make personally decisions on how they look?

Yes, they do. But a person who goes through multiple surgeries, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, very often has much deeper issues than just being uncomfortable with the way they look. These people want to become a completely different person, and they believe that by changing their appearance, they can also change those parts of their personalities that they find lacking.

Is it not the same as body piercing? Some may not agree with a person with an eyebrow and top-part of the ear being pierced (such as I have), but is it not the individuals right to how far they go? Or even tattooing?

I don't think it's exactly the same as body art. As the proud owner of a tattoo, I understand the point you're trying to make, though. But I think that, rather than changing our features, we're only accentuating what we already have.

An adult with all their thinking faculties should have the right and power to do anything they wish to their own body if it doesn’t affect or harm another.

Within reason, yes, an adult should be able to decide how they wish to look. But when that need to be more desireable to others becomes harmful to the person, where, in the case of Michael Jackson, parts of their body literally fall off due to being extremely weakened as a result of multiple operations, then a line needs to be drawn.

When a person feels the need to drastically change their appearance, and there is the potential for harm, not necessarily to others but to one's self, is it not right to step in and say something about it?

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When a person feels the need to drastically change their appearance, and there is the potential for harm, not necessarily to others but to one's self, is it not right to step in and say something about it?

I understand what you are saying… But every individual has the right to do what they wish to their own body (so long as if doesn’t harm another). What would become of us if the one thing we all have, Free Will is taken away? That’s the one thing that no matter how poor or rich, old or young, Free Will is what make us who we are!

Compare these images. Why can’t a person decide if they have the right to change their own bodies?

user posted image

user posted image

Of course you have breast enlargements and reductions, ect… Stomach tucks and hair transplants. And all because a person has to pay to have this done, does it make it wrong?

If a small operation boosts a person’s self-confidence is that bad? On the program Extreme Makeover, you see people’s life’s change for the better because it gives them the confidence they need to live a fuller life.

DONALD J. CAPUANO, M.D. Plastic Surgeon.

Plastic surgery specializes in both reconstructive and cosmetic or aesthetic surgery. Reconstructive surgery helps one to fix or bring to normalcy something that is irregular on the body, such as a ripped earlobe, or a scar. Cosmetic surgery helps to improve one's image, or as it is often called, aesthetic surgery, it gives one's body a sense of beauty. Plastic surgery has many uses today. Ultimately, plastic surgery benefits both young and old psychologically, physically and emotionally.

Source

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Back again!

But every individual has the right to do what they wish to their own body (so long as if doesn’t harm another).

I agree with you completely on this point. However, if you'll excuse the cliché, god made us the way we are for a reason. The beauty of being human is not always found in one's physical appearance.

Compare these images. Why can’t a person decide if they have the right to change their own bodies?

My simple opinion, the woman on the bottom, is an attractive woman. I think she may even look better before the nose job. Think of Cindy Crawford's mole. Without it, she's just another gorgeous model, with it, she's one of the most recognizeable women in the world. Sometimes an imperfection actually accentuates one's beauty, rather than draws attention away from it.

If a small operation boosts a person’s self-confidence is that bad? On the program Extreme Makeover, you see people’s life’s change for the better because it gives them the confidence they need to live a fuller life.

I have a serious problem with this show. The message it sends is that no matter how bad your problems are, if you change the way you look outwardly, your life will get better. Confidence, real, true, confidence, does not come from a doctor's scalpel, but in having faith in your worth as a human being, regardless of how you look to other people. These people, regardless of what they say for the cameras, are simply putting wallpaper over the parts of themselves that they don't like so much. A shiny new smile will never take the place of some deep introspection and changing one's life through being disciplined and choosing to live healthy.

A person has a right to do whatever they want to themselves, but simply changing the wrapping paper does nothing to change the fact that the gift inside is just another pair of gym socks.

Back to you, Kryso.

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Mostly all this comes down to self confidence. The outer wrapping is part and parcel of who we are, and it effects us in our everyday life. If an individual has emotional problems, due to having a large nose, or a fat overhanging stomach that they simply can’t get rid off, by all means plastic surgery is a means to an end. And if it is simply the outer look of the person that has held them back for years, then surgery is a feasible, affordable means to change that persons life, and insecurities.

However, if you'll excuse the cliché, god made us the way we are for a reason. The beauty of being human is not always found in one's physical appearance.

As the saying goes, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” this is very true. And as you say, God made us the way we are, but not everyone is religious, even though I know it’s just a saying. God also gave us the ability to grow, change, even if that is by different means.

A shiny new smile will never take the place of some deep introspection and changing one's life through being disciplined and choosing to live healthy.

This is also true, but some people have defected teeth, oversized or rotting away. If they can bring back a smile, and confidence, I don’t see how that can be wrong?

Life is too short, and if a person can change a part of them, because they want to, then I see no harm, as I said, so long as they don’t harm others.

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Mostly all this comes down to self confidence.

Exactly. It's a sad state of affairs when your self worth is so tied up in how you look that other, more important qualities are overlooked. A person's outward appearance only holds them back if they want to enter a profession such as modeling or acting, where a person's appearance is considered important. And even in acting, talent many times overcomes what a performer might lack physically. Just look at Philip Seymour Hoffman, John C. Reilly, Ron Perlman, or John Goodman. None of these guys is what you'd call a matinee idol. Yet in spite of that, they've all managed to become very successful, respected figures in their chosen field. Self confidence, no matter what you look like, might just be the most important factor in determining your own self worth.

If an individual has emotional problems, due to having a large nose, or a fat overhanging stomach that they simply can’t get rid off, by all means plastic surgery is a means to an end.

If a person's emotional problems simply stem from having a small flaw in their outward appearance, then these are very small problems indeed. In fact, if this is the extent of your problems, then by all means have the nose job. Unfortunately, emotional distress rarely, if ever is simply due to being uncomfortable with the way one looks. The promise that a surgical procedure will miraculously cure all your problems is a misleading one. Self worth comes from within. A person's self confidence very rarely simply arises from their appearance.

Life is too short, and if a person can change a part of them, because they want to, then I see no harm, as I said, so long as they don’t harm others.

I agree with this to a point. One of the great things about being human is that we can change. We can decide for ourselves what we want to take out of this life. How we live and the quality of that life is up to us, to a certain extent. But what kind of life is it when the quality of life is determined by the shell it's contained in? Going out and seeing the world, learning a new skill, changing careers, even just starting up a new hobby are all much more spiritually satisfying, not to mention less costly, ways to improve your outlook on life.

The point here is, the quality of your life depends on the worth you give it. This is not something that can be done simply by changing your appearance. It has to come from inside, and requires changing fundamental things, like the way you experience and interact with the world around you. Plastic surgery is a quick fix to a superficial problem, and will never make a bad person better.

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The point here is, the quality of your life depends on the worth you give it. This is not something that can be done simply by changing your appearance. It has to come from inside, and requires changing fundamental things, like the way you experience and interact with the world around you.

But sometimes confidence is a large part of how we feel and the way we interact with other people; and looks have a large part to play in that socializing event we call life.

This is simply the way we are brought up, and how school molds us, along with TV and magazines.

And what’s wrong with someone thinking that changing their body would alter their prospective on life? We only live once, and if we can alter our body with different means, then I don’t see that as wrong. A person who keeps trying to diet, but the weight will not shift, regardless of exorcise. If an operation to remove that fat will work, then I say go for it.

Every single person who reads this look at yourself in a mirror, take a long hard look, and even if you will not admit it to another, there is bound to be one aspect of yourself you would like to change; (I have never met someone who hasn’t)? Be it your nose, eyes, breast, thighs, butt or stomach, or one of another hundred different things. And if you had it in your power to change that thing, would you not do it? Personally, I would have to say yes!

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This is simply the way we are brought up, and how school molds us, along with TV and magazines.

If this were true, then all our problems would be solved in less than thirty minutes, everything will kill you, and Cosmo's advice would actually have some merit. Being comfortable in your own skin is about much more than simply how you look. It's the combination of everything you are that makes you a unique, beautiful individual member of the human race.

Every single person who reads this look at yourself in a mirror, take a long hard look, and even if you will not admit it to another, there is bound to be one aspect of yourself you would like to change; (I have never met someone who hasn’t)?

This is true to a point. But one's physical features are the only things in this life that they will ever truly own. I'd like to lose some weight, and sometimes I wish I were better looking. But my face is exactly that, my face. My eyes, nose, lips, chin, all these go together to make my face different from every other face on the planet. It's just one component of what sets me apart from everyone else. Sure, sometimes I wish I'd been blessed in the looks department, but I wouldn't change anything about it. It's the only face I'm ever gonna have, and I'd much rather keep my mug than try to look like someone else.

The obsession in some people to become someone else is one of the real dangers of plastic surgery. Take the case of Cindy Jackson, for instance. cindyjackson.com This woman has had nearly thirty surgeries to look like her idol, a Barbie doll. Is this merely to give her self confidence a boost? More likely, this poor woman, who was very attractive to begin with, has no real sense of herself. A lack of identity, for one reason or another, has led to the desire to become something which is idealized in her mind. There is also a woman in England who's undergone several operations to look like Queen Nefertiti. At what point do we quit looking at this as a quick fix for a person's lagging self-esteem, and do we begin to deal with the often deeper personal issues that lead a person's desire to become a completely different individual?

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I see our outer selves as a means to an end. We are who we are, as you have said. No matter what happens to the outer shell we will always remain the same inside – regardless of how much cosmetic surgery a person has! Some people may have issues that need attention. But, everyone is an individual, but even if they do change their outer self they will still be unique.

Everybody has choices in their life, and if that choice is being able to change an aspect of themselves, then I say go for it. There’s nothing wrong with self improvement.

Personally I think Cindy Jackson looks great. She is obviously happy with her new body, and why shouldn’t she be? She hasn’t gone to an extreme; she still looks natural and healthy.

You've seen her on television, you've seen her in all the newspapers, but Cindy Jackson in the perfect flesh still comes as a surprise. She is much slimmer than you expect and much, much prettier. Not Bionic Woman, not a Barbie doll, but intelligent, direct, engaging and, here's the paradox, real.

Ruth Gorb, H&H Express

Since 1988 she has had just about every op going to transform herself from farm girl to blonde bombshell…Living doll Cindy boasts an IQ of 164 and Mensa membership to counter any bimbo image.

Paula Jones, Sunday Magazine

This is not a stereotypical ditzy blonde. She's incredibly bright and has been very calculating about making these changes to transform her life.

Leeza Gibbons, the Leeza Show

I say, be whatever you want to be. Be the best you can, even if that means you use surgery for a means-to-an-end.

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Those quotes are taken from her very own website, correct? Of course they're going to show her in as positive a light as possible. Cindy Jackson is there to market herself, and telling the world she has some serious identity problems is definately not going to help her case.

And that's exactly what's going on here. Why else would an attractive, intelligent woman go to such great lengths to become an entirely different person? Not only that, but a fictional character that presents an unrealistic ideal?

Unfortunately we live in a society that puts too much focus on what car you drive and how you wear your hair. At the same time, there is this pseudo liberalism, which tells us that whatever you want to do is fine, it's just uptight squares who want to come in and kill your precious buzz. So poor people go to any lengths to change their outer selves, and spend woefully little time improving the aspects of the self that truly do matter. The end result is a shallow, celebrity obsessed society that puts more emphasis on emulating classless trash queens like Paris Hilton than nurturing their souls and molding one another into happy, productive members of society.

I'm all for improving yourself. But true confidence comes from within, and it will shine through no matter what you have going on outside. While it's true, to an extent, how you present yourself visually, your inner beauty will show. And a crooked nose will make you all the more attractive, because it makes you a real human being.

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Posted (edited)

Firstly, Snuffy, I would like to congratulate you on an excellent argument, against plastic surgery. And I look forward to hopefully having another debate with you soon?

This is now my closing conclusion post!

All the points you make are very valid and clear, and in some underlining points I agree with you. But I still believe that a person has the right to change any aspect of themselves that they are not happy with. We live in a technological world where this has now become a reality that most can obtain, and people are using those choices to change the part of themselves that they don’t like, or feel needs altering to some degree.

I agree with you that the inner person is very important, and changing our outer appearance can’t change what’s inside – but in the sense that it gives them more self-confidence in an area they never had before, I’m all for that.

And I would also like to say that there is a difference between plastic surgery and cosmetic surgery. We have mainly dwelt on cosmetic surgery, because that’s the main issue of this discussion that we have centered around, (even though the title of the debate is Plastic surgery). But plastic surgery in-whole, is also about reconstructive procedures that can beneficially change a persons life, who has been disfigured by accident or nature (see my first post).

So my conclusion is – I believe plastic surgery is beneficial to most and it has changed many people’s lives for the better. Life is very short, and if we can change one aspect of ourselves while we are passing through this haste called life, then I say take that opportunity, become whoever you want to become, change whatever aspect of yourself you personly feel needs changing, because this isn’t a rehearsal, this is the life you have got – make the most of it!

On a personal note, I would like to say thank you to Disinterested and Lottie for keeping the debate board so well organized, and thanks to everyone for taking the time to read my side of the debate.

Kryso…

Sorry just editing some of my spelling mistakes!

Edited by Kryso

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It's been fun, Kryso. I look forward to debating you again, as well. Congratulations on a job well done, and good luck with the judges.

Conclusion

While I agree that it is healthy to change the aspects of oneself that one isn't entirely happy with, I think the prevalence of cosmetic surgery in today's society gives people the wrong message. Folks today carry the false hope that by changing their appearance, they can become a completely different, better, stronger person. As a result, people often neglect to develop the parts of themselves that truly do make them better people.

I agree that changing you appearance does give you a boost of confidence, but sometimes I think it's confidence in the wrong direction. I know several very attractive young women who have absolutely no faith in themselves other than knowing they're pretty. As a result, they don't like themselves much, and as a result get involved in bad relationships and, in the case of one of my old friends, alcoholism. Their looks are all they have, and they try to fill the hole with quick fixes, to relieve that spiritual need that they never took the time to attend to. It's like putting a fresh coat of paint on a piece of rotted wood. It's going to crumble just as fast.

What makes us who we are is not our appearance, or the clothes we wear. What does is how we stand and face the world. Society will see us the way we see ourselves, and no amount of makeup or cosmetic surgery will ever change that. While I do agree that with severe injuries and some horrendous diseases and birth defects plastic surgery is a good thing, even necessary, at the end of the day, the only person who's opinion matters is the one looking back at you from the mirror.

Thanks for reading. Good night.

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Great debate guys!

I'm now throwing this one to our fabulous judges. wink2.gif

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Alrighty, first ever judgement yes.gif

Debater 1: Kryso

Relevancy: 9

Countering: 6

Style: 8

Persuasiveness: 8

TOTAL: 31

Debater 2: SnuffyPuffer

Relevancy: 9

Countering: 7

Style: 7

Persuasiveness: 7

TOTAL: 30

Twas very close. Both sides debated very well. Well done to both of ye yes.gif

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Debater 1: Kryso

Relevancy: 9

Countering: 7

Style: 8

Persuasiveness: 8

TOTAL: 32

Debater 2: SnuffyPuffer

Relevancy: 9

Countering: 6

Style: 8

Persuasiveness: 8

TOTAL: 31

Well done to both of you, good debate.

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Both of you did a great job, Father Jack is now thinking about a make over!

Debater 1: Kryso

Relevancy: 9

Countering: 6

Style: 9

Persuasiveness: 8

TOTAL: 32

Debater 2: SnuffyPuffer

Relevancy: 9

Countering: 8

Style: 8

Persuasiveness: 8

TOTAL: 33

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This was a close one!

Kryso wins the debate with an average of 31.6 points;

SnuffyPuffer finishes with an average of 31.3.

Thank you both for participating! thumbsup.gif

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