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Burgundy Johnson

Alien Ancestory

28 posts in this topic

Well, I read a book that said the mathematical possiblity of another life-form on another planet that is at the exact evolutionary stage as us with the same kind of planet, is that there has to be at least 13 in the whole universe. So what says that there can't be 13 more life-forms at a more advanced evolutionary stage than us in the universe? Just my thoughts on that!

Lets debate!

-Joe

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I'm not going to debate this, however, I have an issue with the book you read. You mentioned mathematical possibilities, and you also mentioned that there has to be at least 13 in the whole universe.

When using the term 'at least', you are saying that it is absolutely not less than. How can you be sure that the possibilities are less than a certain number?

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wink.gifhuh.gif

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Well, I'm sorry for making you mad...it was just an idea. And the book said that some great mathmetician worked it out and that there has to be at least 13. I wasn't saying it is definite just pointing out the possibility. And I dont know that there isn't less. Goodness I was just pointing out a theory.

Thanks. mad.gif

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Don't take it wrong Joe,

Homer isn't upset or certainly mad about your post, he was trying to point out that some of the words you used could have been changed around a bit.

Has to be and COULD be are very very far apart. Homer had a good point in saying you can't prove this mathemeticians theory, so instead of saying has to be atleast..... you should have used could have atleast.

None the less....

Most of us agree that there is always that possiblity of other life out there. But the universe is WAY to big for us to put numbers on how many species or races or what not.

All we can do is hope there is atleast one.

Cheers smile.gif

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Thanks, Mistify. I sorta took Homer's thing the wrong way. It seemed to me he was telling me I was wrong and I don'tl ike that. So anyway, Homer, I apologize for my actions and thanks for your comments! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, right?

Thanks,

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Hey Joe,

You might want to think about thickening up that skin a little. If someone starts to critique your theory and you immediately start to feel angry at them, you aren't going to make it very far here.

This fourm deals with the possibilities and probabilities of many things. Of these many things, very few can be backed up with real data and even then it is no where near conclusive. This results in a purely theoretical discussions taking place.

These discussions however facilitate a better understanding of what might possibly be. By posting a theory and having negative reactions, you learn the weaknesses of those theories and are given the opportunity to alter them to include ideas you may have otherwise not had.

In the end, it is your theory that comes out ahead so keep yourself open to those new ideas. Keep your mind open at all times and don't accept the first thing you hear as proof positive of anything. Learn from your mistakes.

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Joe,

No need to apologize. I think that some people may find it difficult to understand me sometimes biggrin.gif

What Mystify said about my post was correct. If you read the first 6 words of my previous post, you should notice that I'm not debating any theory. My only issue was the wording that was utilized to explain the theory. I'm sort of anal about that laugh.gif

But Mystify cleared that up, and I appreciate that. Also, remember the excellent advise posted by Space Moose smile.gif

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Damn that was top notch Space Moose!!!

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I think that Space Mooses post should be made required reading for any one posting on this forum - very well put.

As for other species out there, i definately believe there are - the odds, in my opinion, seem to suggest it. whether or not they are as/more/less advanced i can only assume there is a mixture, favouring the less. The only way i can support this theory is by looking at our own planet, there are millions of species all of which are less developed mentally than ours - if we extrapolate that across the universe i can tentatively suggest that we are among the top millionth percent of speces out there. I suppose it comes down to where you draw the line at what 'life' is

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WOW, nicely put spacemoose original.gif.

And, I agree with PS.

Ours can't be the only planet in the universe that hold sentient life, the law of averages suggests that there has to be a few more anyway. By way of example, if you toss a coin, it will land on either side more than once.

But whether they sentient life is as intelligent or more/less so, my guess is as good as anyones, until there is proof one way or the other.

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Now, how about this little thought. Here on earth we have life as we know it. Now nobody can proove that life exists elsewhere. Say for instance life IS native to this planet. Life formed here because of many chances that happened in the formation of this planet (well some ssay this). What I'm getting at, is that just because there may not be life elsewhere, that doesn't mean there isn't existance. It's hard to explain, as my brain works faster than my mind, but we can't understand this because life is all we know. Because we live it.

On another planet in another galaxy, things formed according to different chancees and different reactions. Another form of existance is present on that planet, though it may not 'live' like us. Or at least be biological.

Before i confuse myself and everyone else further, if anyone remotely understands what i'm trying to get at, please feel free to take over and expand upon it. It all makes sense in my mind...

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So putting that into a quick sentence, there may be life on other planets, but it would so totally different then what we know of as life, that we would not recognise it.

For instance, on another planet, the most intelligent life form might be a rock, and it would be alive and sentient, just as we are.

It could be made of silicon, or whatever, and we would initially at least, just walk straight past it, not knowing what it was.

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I suppose it all comes down to how well we know the laws of physics really and whether it is uniform across the universe. As we currently understand it it is uniform and (correct me if i'm wrong) would therefore lend itself to carbon based life. Working just statisically here using my assumption that intelligent life will be a millionth% of all life in the universe (say) that'll mean that it's extremely unlikely there is intelligent life which is non-carbon based.

Of course i don't belief we have got all of physics sussed for one second, and i've not one whit of evidence to proof any of this grin2.gif

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My bet is that the physics that we are currently calling theoretical and top stuff, is actually down nearer the bottom of the ladder, or at least somewhere near the lower middle, and that we have a lot more to learn.

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That may be true when applied generally to physics and our knowledge of its principles, Al, but there are highly specialized disciplines within the science that require an adherance to a certain set of rules and/or conditions, no matter what the circumstance. Just coincidently, an astrophysicist has written a two part article for Astrobiology magazine that addresses the issue of intelligent life in the universe. Its simply written so that any lay person can understand the crux of his ideas, but it contains enough information to give you an idea of what is needed for intelligent life to form elsewhere.

Link to article

There are other links at the bottom of the page that you can click on if you want to read further information on the subject.

Magikman cool.gif

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Here's something to chew on. (From thekeyboard.org.uk)

Just doing a little paraphrasing here:

-100 Billion Galaxies in our universe that are visible to a modern telescope, 100 billion being a conservative number.

-100's of Billions stars in the average galaxy

-Total number of stars in the universe: 100 billion x 100 billion.

That's 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, 10 thousand, billion, billion; conservative estimate

-1 in a million stars that have a planetary system, with one planet for each star. Conservative estimate.

-Assuming Earth-like planets are rare, give this another conservative number of 1 in a million

So that puts it at 10 Billion earth-like planets, capable of producing life. 10 Billion being conservative.

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-100 Billion Galaxies in our Solar System that are visible to a modern telescope, 100 billion being a conservative number.

Is this a typo Expendable?

There isn't one single galaxy in our solar system original.gif

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Lol, yes, I meant to write universe. :b

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Great article MM, thanks.

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There was a formula drawn up to work out just how likely it is to meet a foreign race...Ill dig it up and get it back to you...

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Hmm, I bet life is the natural standard in the universe, we just don't see it because it takes a different form.

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I dunno SP, i think we would be able to recognise alien life if we came across it - think of the diversity we already take for granted - Humankind to amoeba, Zebra to wasp, Shark to Oak.

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I see your point, PS, but alien life could be so different from what we understand we'd have no idea waht it was.

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