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Boris the Spider

Where did the Bible come from?

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ohmy.gif The real story

The time the Bible was created was a time when every natural occurring event on earth was looked upon as being constructed by a spiritual force. Also only the very rich were educated and able to read and write. And only the rich hang with the rich. So what would they want to do? Well being rich is great so they would want, most of all, to stay rich. And they know they are rich only as long as no one comes and takes it all away from them. So how could they stop that from happening? Well, let’s see now… ah! Create an idea that would make the general population fear eternal punishment for doing wrong to others. If you catch a thief you can put him in jail. But if you don’t he will just keep on being a thief. But if he is taught to think he will still have to answer for his crimes even if he never gets caught then you might have a good deterrent. After all, people have always felt there is some kind of God out there in the stars. And to make it more effective we will create this bad guy, call him Satan, and make everyone feel he is waiting there when you die to take you away to a horrible place of suffering if you have been bad.

So we, who can write, will make a book. And we will not reveal the authors of it and we will say that it is the actual word of this God; that everyone suspected was out there anyway. We are rich and we have much time on our hands because our every need is taken care of. So for years we get together and write and rewrite and add and take way and by golly, when it is all finished, we have a book that has much wisdom, a few contradictions but on the whole just what we need to keep all the little people in line forever. And where pray tell did we get all this information? Did we just pull it out of our dull imaginations? Heck no! We took old legends and beliefs from long ago and just kind of changed them a little so they fit our goals.

Well for a long time this goes over quite nicely. Then darn it! Wouldn’t ya know? The real God, that was out there all along, gets wind of it and decides to send a representative down here and straighten us all up once and for all. So he sends his son because he knows this lad can get things done for sure. But his son gets murdered by the same people he is sent to help. And to make things worse, the things his son says, that are very important by the way, are not written down. And when they are written down some fifty years later they have been changed, once again, to meet the goals of the people writing them down.

Well God gets mad again. But this time he decides to just ignore us and let us all suffer in our confusion and madness for a while. Then he finally gets over the anger phase of his emotions and decides to try one more time. Now he has an idea he feels will do the trick for sure. He starts appearing to people who have died and telling them to go back and tell the others that we are doing it all wrong. That we just need to love each other and be helpful to each other and try not to think too much about who he is or any of that mess but rather concentrate on being nice and taking good care of the planet that he gave us.

Now some people don’t like that when they hear it. They have jobs that depend on people coming together, in the name of the God they wrote about, and donating money to them so they can live quite well. If people knew that all they needed to do was be nice to one another and take care of the planet then they wouldn’t have a need for the services of an organization that depends on their money to exist. Additionally, there are others that feel that is just too simple. They feel they have to have a place to congregate and pray for their nasty sins they have been enjoying all week so they can feel much better about it. I mean really, they are sure they must do it this way or they will just fall to pieces. Besides, they kind of like being able to be mean toward others then just go wipe it all away at the end of the week with their usual routine of prayers. Then there are the ones that didn’t believe in any kind of God in the first place. They don’t like to hear people talking about dying and seeing a God and being told all these helpful things. Why? Because they kind of like being nonbelievers. After all they can do anything they want to without any remorse or worry about having to be punished for it. If they have to give up all the things they enjoy doing so much, well, it just wouldn’t be any fun here anymore for them now would it?

So what do people do when they hear about these new messages from God? They do as they have always done. Just keep things the way they are so they can continue to fight and squabble about who God is, and who is right about the way to believe in this God, and what this God really wants us to do, and that the book that was written on the subject must be right because we are always right, and I’ll be damned if I will let somebody criticize my way of believing; and all that nonsense.

And quietly, from space, it is observed a planet, spinning away toward the future with the biggest fools in the universe at the controls.

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welcome to the boards Boris.

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Hey great post, excellent for your first! thumbsup.gif

Why don't you mosey on down to the general board and introduce yourself?

Welcome to the forum.

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Welcome to UM.

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Welcome aboard Boris (I just loooove spiders yes.gif )

I think you would enjoy reading 'Jesus-last of the pharoahs' by Ralph Ellis wink2.gif

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Posted (edited)

The Bible may be cut to pieces, and changed but it's taken from the original first-hand accounts and I suggest you don't knock it if you believe in God at all.

This new idea that you can believe whatever way you want without paying any attention to what God has actually said (some parts may be opinions, they should be treated with a grain of salt). There is a Heaven, there is a Sheol (pergatory/Limbo - most people go there) there is a hell. Several levels of each. Pick one.

Edited by Ashley-Star*Child

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The Bible may be cut to pieces, and changed but it's taken from the original first-hand accounts and I suggest you don't knock it if you believe in God at all.

I thought it was generally accepted that at the very least the gospels were written long after the death of Jesus.

Why not knock it though? Surely a healthy dose of scepticism and critical thought is better than blind faith without question. If you don't question and simply follow, you are giving up your *God* given right to freedom of choice and free thought. Don't deny someone else the right to think something different.

This new idea that you can believe whatever way you want without paying any attention to what God has actually said (some parts may be opinions, they should be treated with a grain of salt). There is a Heaven, there is a Sheol (pergatory/Limbo - most people go there) there is a hell. Several levels of each. Pick one.

But, you are simply stating your own opinion here rather than fact. All religion is based on faith alone and cannot be proven one way or another. Ergo, nobody can argue their way is any better or more valid than another.

You believe what you want to believe, the same as everyone else, so why do you feel that is wrong in others? Nobody is forcing you to have your beliefs, they are of your own choosing.

You say "This new idea that you can believe whatever way you want without paying any attention to what God has actually said". The idea isn't really new is it? For as long as we have had free thought and the inclination to critical thinking, we have had that choice. Also, aren't you assuming that your interpretation of what God has supposedly said is the only valid interpretation?

I'm not Christian, but have read the Bible several times. My own opinion is that it's an interesting book, but it contains some rather disturbing stories which on their own would put me off Christianity. I also think it contains many errors and contradictions. Other people will strongly disagree with me and call me a heretic for this. It's not so long ago that I would have been put to death for holding such opinions. I'm just so glad that we live in an age of religious freedom! It is a shame however, that religious intolerance is still going strong.

I'm not trying to kick up a storm here, but I am a little disconcerted and confused by your comments.

Wishmaster

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Posted (edited)

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Not everything can be comprehened by all people. In fact, most people don't understand the Bible because of all those missing parts. But that's not a reason to discredit it just because you don't understand it.

Edited by Ashley-Star*Child

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Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Not everything can be comprehened by all people. In fact, most people don't understand the Bible because of all those missing parts. But that's not a reason to discredit it just because you don't understand it.

604121[/snapback]

I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you didn't seem to think so judging by your original post. Unless I've misunderstood, you appeared to be under the impression that the Bible is the defacto word of God and contains "facts" relating to heaven and hell among other things. It doesn't as far as I'm concerned.

I find your statement about how there *is* a heaven and sheol hard to swallow considering my own personal views. Yet, I respect your opinion to that effect and wouldn't dream of trying to tell you it's wrong.

To hold the opinion that the Bible is total nonsense is perfectly ok and no more right or wrong than your view. Don't villify someone just because their opinion is offensive to you. After all, they might be right and *you* might be wrong! wink2.gif

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Ashley

Glad to get your response specifically. You seem to be very certain of the validity of the Bible. Maybe your right. I really don't know myself. But I do intend to offend some with what I write only to get those people thinking, not to be cruel. You are very confident of your beliefs yet still find yourself here reading material that is more out on the fringes.

People talk about reading the Bible and getting some point out of it that others of perhaps equal intelligence cannot. I heard that many times. So I must be missing something also because it just sounds so clearly man inspired to me when I read it. I also read into it some strange things.

For example: The group of Christians here in the US that are refered to as born again, took their start from a passage in the book of John about Jesus describing being born again. Every time I read that passage I get another meaning from it than what they say it means. To me he is saying that we are born into the flesh from the spirit world and when we die we are born back into the spirit world from the flesh. That makes more sense to me also for us being here.

What do you all think? Especially you Wishmaster. I feel you have a good sense of clearity. Be as critical as you wish I can take it. And feel free to vent some anger.

Respectfully,

BTS

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For example:  The group of Christians here in the US that are refered to as born again, took their start from a passage in the book of John about Jesus describing being born again. Every time I read that passage I get another meaning from it than what they say it means.  To me he is saying that we are born into the flesh from the spirit world and when we die we are born back into the spirit world from the flesh.  That makes more sense to me also for us being here.

604384[/snapback]

Hmmm...that is an interesting thought. I like to study religions, and that's a new take on a commonly accepted religious belief. How do you think that differs from what modern-day Christians think of the phrase "born-again", though? Would it change any Christian notions/preconceptions?

As an aside, I think that a person's religious texts should be open to their own personal interpretation and that they should not be told what they can and cannot take from it themselves. That is one of my biggest problems with organized religion as a whole.

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Dear Con. rolleyes.gif

You mean accepting Jesus as your savior to be born again? That concept is fine. It can be misleading maybe in the sense that one may have a false idea about the reality of God's acceptance. If you have done the acceted Jesus in your heart thing and then believe you are saved, you might want to make sure your actions are in line with your promise. I've been around those who have accepted Jesus as their savior and yet they look upon others as evil that have not.

I don't know if it would change a Christians notion or not to find out they were once in the spirit world before they came here. But I think it goes against what they believe. I think they might assume only Jesus did that so it is forbidden to think that the rest of us have. I know that is how I would have felt as a Catholic boy many years ago. But It makes me think that it is more logical to have once been spirits and then we came down here to experience the physical world and then die and go back to our origin in the spirit world. How do you think?

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I know where the bible came from: Barnes & Noble.

See, it says so right on the receipt.

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Great post Boris, expect a lot of heated discussion on this one. Nonetheless, you have a really good point. thumbsup.gif

Welcome to the forum. original.gif

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Welcome to UM, Mr 'the Spider'.

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The Bible may be cut to pieces, and changed but it's taken from the original first-hand accounts and I suggest you don't knock it if you believe in God at all.

This new idea that you can believe whatever way you want without paying any attention to what God has actually said (some parts may be opinions, they should be treated with a grain of salt). There is a Heaven, there is a Sheol (pergatory/Limbo - most people go there) there is a hell. Several levels of each. Pick one.

604052[/snapback]

So, what did "God actually say"? I'd like to hear what "God" said and who "God" said it to? The very arguement that we must believe that "God" said what is claimed in the Bible just because a couple of guys claimed "God" said it is completely rediculous.

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Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Not everything can be comprehened by all people. In fact, most people don't understand the Bible because of all those missing parts. But that's not a reason to discredit it just because you don't understand it.

604121[/snapback]

Well, don't assume that because people discredit it, that they must not understand it. I had a moran in Yahoo chat debating the "Trinity" garbage...he said, "Don't blame me, God or the Bible just because you can't comprehend the Trinity"!

I understood the concept plainly, and gave him 2 popular versions of the so called "Trinity" and told him that I think it's rediculous. But, being the wise sheep he was, his poor reasoning skills led him to the conclusion that I must not comprehend it because I disagree with him. wacko.gif

no.gif

go figure...

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Great post and topic, Boris. Welcome to UM and enjoy your stay! thumbsup.gif

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I know where the bible came from:  Barnes & Noble.

See, it says so right on the receipt.

605676[/snapback]

dude, you should have gotten it at wal-mart, it would have been hella cheaper. thumbsup.gif

remember my wise words next time.

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Well, don't assume that because people discredit it, that they must not understand it. I had a moran in Yahoo chat debating the "Trinity" garbage...he said, "Don't blame me, God or the Bible just because you can't comprehend the Trinity"!

622347[/snapback]

question. what's a "moran?" blink.gif

I understood the concept plainly, and gave him 2 popular versions of the so called "Trinity" and told him that I think it's rediculous.

622347[/snapback]

which is it? did you "understand the concept plainly?" or did you "think it's rediculous."

But, being the wise sheep he was, his poor reasoning skills led him to the conclusion that I must not comprehend it because I disagree with him. wacko.gif

no.gif

go figure...

622347[/snapback]

well, he was probably right. you blocked everything out before the words you read entered your brain. yes.gif

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So, what did "God actually say"? I'd like to hear what "God" said and who "God" said it to? The very arguement that we must believe that "God" said what is claimed in the Bible just because a couple of guys claimed "God" said it is completely rediculous.

622343[/snapback]

w00t.gifw00t.gif a couple guys? rofl.gif

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well, he was probably right. you blocked everything out before the words you read entered your brain. yes.gif

The concept of the Trinity defies logic, was a third/fourth century invention, built on a vote and isn't supported by the Bible. Nobody understands it simply because it's contradictory and therefore nonsensical.

Is the best you can do to refute someone on this board by picking them up on their incorrect spelling of a word??? Dear me. no.gif

Wishmaster.

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The concept of the Trinity defies logic, was a third/fourth century invention, built on a vote and isn't supported by the Bible.  Nobody understands it simply because it's contradictory and therefore nonsensical.

624270[/snapback]

Ok, tell me how its "contradictory" to the bible.

Is the best you can do to refute someone on this board by picking them up on their incorrect spelling of a word??? Dear me. no.gif

624270[/snapback]

No, but when someone calls someone a "moran" its irony at its best.

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Ok, tell me how its "contradictory" to the bible.

Trinitarians quote a number of verses to support their view. Opposers quote contradictory verses. There's little point in my posting a long list of verses from both sides of this argument as other people have already done so. Google is your friend.

I was merely trying to make the point that for every believer, there's a non-believer, each with an equally valuable outlook.

Why is being called a "moran" ironic? I don't understand.

Wishmaster

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Why is being called a "moran" ironic?  I don't understand.

Wishmaster

624741[/snapback]

he was meaning to say "moron."

when you call someone a name, you better at least spell it correctly. otherwise you look like the word you are using yourself.

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