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Codebreaker

Hittite Relics found in North America.

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In November of 1896 near the town of Newberry, Michigan. In Michigan's Upper Pennisula two woodsmen clearing land on a farm uprooted a tree and discovered three statues, and a clay tablet.

The tablet was 19 by 26 inches in size. 140 small squares were cut into the stone. In each square a letter or character.

The University of Michigan, and the Smithsonian Institution were notify.

Both of these institutions, at the time refused to look at the artifacts, they didn't believe they were real, and they didn't know how to translate the stone, because at that time, the "Hittite Empire" had not been found by any archeologist until 1905.

Photos of the Newberry Stone were taken in 1898 and sent to the Smithsonian.

The Stone still exsisted in 1947, but it had never been heat treated, and it crumbled into dust.

In 1947 some 50 years after finding the stone, a researcher heard about the stone, and asked the Smithsonian for the photos. The Smithsonian, said that they had lost the photos, and they tried to cover up the existence of the stone, for some reason.

In 1988 the photos of the Newberry Stone resurfaced, and were found in the Michigan Archives. Dr. Barry Fell President of the Epigraphic society deciphred the tablet he said the tablet was written in ancient Hittite-Minoan. He immediately compared it with the Phaistos Disk from Crete.

The tablet was written in magic quadrangles, to be read both vertically and horizontally. Therefore the text was read in a boustrophedon pattern.

The tablet contained instructions for obtaining favorable omens from the Gods for good luck.

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Another instance of (it doesn't fit with what they do or do not want us to know) syndrom. grin2.gif

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I've read almost this exact same story; from the same area of Michigan; only Phoenicians were mentioned..

So that leads me to wonder if the stories have been mixed. Either that or Michigan has some mysterious tourist appeal untapped by modern man..

Of course, that was before Detroit was built, so... tongue.gif

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Well code breaker I'm giong to tell you one thing that IS impossible. It is impossible that a smuggler stole an ancient artifact and took it with him to the Americas. I mean... especially in 1896 when trans-continental travel wasn't possible yet. Oh wait. Why he would do that no one knows, but it is certainly an option that is overlooked because it doesn't contain fairy dragons and aliens made out of pure energy.

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what? trans-continental travel impossible in 1896??? but wait, i thought america was discovered by cloumbus in 1492....is all our writting history wrong?must we now follow the teachings of conservative? i say no, if your going to state something look at the facts! dont be so naive.... also have you over looked Ferdinand whom travelled the globe in 1480? also what of the vikings ariving in america in 1362, 130 yrs before columbus?hmm...if you plan on me taking you serious in your life here on UM actually post something valid....and if your trying to be sarcastic it isnt very apparent...

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sorry got some facts wrong..... vikings beat columbus by about 500 years, 130 years before columbus was a wave of scandinavian explorers....

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Hittite, phoenecian, sumerian, egyptian

st some point someone will probablt discover its an old o.s. survey marker and the mystery will be over w00t.gifw00t.gif

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In November of 1896 near the town of Newberry, Michigan. In Michigan's Upper Pennisula two woodsmen clearing land on a farm uprooted a tree and discovered three statues, and a clay tablet.

The tablet was 19 by 26 inches in size. 140 small squares were cut into the stone. In each square a letter or character.

The University of Michigan, and the Smithsonian Institution were notify.

Both of these institutions, at the time refused to look at the artifacts, they didn't believe they were real, and they didn't know how to translate the stone, because at that time, the "Hittite Empire" had not been found by any archeologist until 1905.

Photos of the Newberry Stone were taken in 1898 and sent to the Smithsonian.

The Stone still exsisted in 1947, but it had never been heat treated, and it crumbled into dust.

In 1947 some 50 years after finding the stone, a researcher heard about the stone, and asked the Smithsonian for the photos. The Smithsonian, said that they had lost the photos, and they tried to cover up the existence of the stone, for some reason.

In 1988 the photos of the Newberry Stone resurfaced, and were found in the Michigan Archives. Dr. Barry Fell President of the Epigraphic society deciphred the tablet he said the tablet was written in ancient Hittite-Minoan. He immediately compared it with the Phaistos Disk from Crete.

The tablet was written in magic quadrangles, to be read both vertically and horizontally. Therefore the text was read in a boustrophedon pattern.

The tablet contained instructions for obtaining favorable omens from the Gods for good luck.

The Newberry Stone is alive and well. It is in 8 pieces, but still in tact.

It is in St. Ignace, Michigan, the little town that hosts the Northern side of the Mackinac bridge.

Just recently, in 2007, the city of St. Ignace acquired the "Fort de Buade Museum" which was amassed over some 30 years by a retired dentist "Doc" Benson. It was a private collection with some 4,000 items,( a small Smithsonian around here).

I am the director of that Museum. I can assure you that the Newberry Stone is there. I look at it everyday.

At first, local archaeologists and historians told me that it was more than likely a hoax.

The Michilimackinac Historical Society, The Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians, and the City of St. Ignace , all worked together over a years time to try to obtain the Museum because it housed relics of our Native and French History which are priceless.

That was our main concern. The Museum was very old, housed in an old garage over 100 years old.

There was little documentation on the items in the Museum, and nothing on the Stone, besides the display articles.

The display consists of materials from old newpapers which tell about the Stone, how it was found , who found it, and that it had been translated at one time.

The display with the Newberry Stone states that Doc Benson obtained the stone from the old Fort Algonquin Museum in St. Ignace when it closed in the 60's. This is confirmed in a 2006 article an Archaeological Magazine which states the stone was last known to be at the Fort Algonquin Museum in St. Ignace but then disappeared after it closed.

I was surprised to read that the author of this article thought the stone was lost forever.

The Newberry Stone is here in St. Ignace.

Just recently, the vice-president of the Historical Society found a book which holds the translation.

We have only just obtained the Museum and have opened for our first season.

I have yet to get someone here to look at this stone to find out once and for all if it is real or a hoax.

The Mystery of that Stone remains to be unraveled, but the good news is that it is NOT LOST.

IT IS ALIVE AND WELL AND IN ST. IGNACE MICHIGAN.

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Hittite, phoenecian, sumerian, egyptian

st some point someone will probablt discover its an old o.s. survey marker and the mystery will be over :w00t::w00t:

I don't think it would be over then. American archaeology is so laden with politics that it takes forever to update theories. Look at the uproar over Kennewick Man's remains. The law said the tribes had rights over the skeleton if they could prove they were descendants of Kennewick Man-- a pretty straight forward DNA test. The tribes countered that the skeleton must be an ancestor because their legends say he was and they weren't willing to allow their ancestor's remains to be dishonored by a DNA test. This idiotic politically correct manipulation tangled things up for years. Look at the Clovis theory (the Clovis culture was the first culture in North America). This theory has been "challenged" (i.e.- contradicted by irrefutable data) for years but it's still taught in our school systems right up through college.

For Pete's sake, Darwin's theory of evolution is still up for debate in America. How pathetic.

What would happen if we found a gigantic, intact Egyptian pyramid right in the middle of Kansas? First P.C. native American people would claim that since their ancient legends say that they were the first people in the area the pyramid must be Native American. The Church of Latter Day Saints would probably enter the frey. This would result in a huge court battle with academics claiming that we must respect American cultural diversity and shouldn't ever look at the pyramid ever again. Eventually the pyramid would be tested, but it will have been exposed to modern contamination for ten years while it sat through the legal mess. Every test will be seen as suspect. There will be claims that the artifact was moved there from Egypt in the 19th century. The "experts in the field" who didn't want to admit that their theses from 30 years ago were wrong would chime in with their so-called voice of reason: "Well, there's no way of telling whether this is a genuine artifact or not. We'll never know. So let's stick with the theory that makes sense".

America is drowning in so much political bs from both left and right that scientific analysis moves at a snail's speed.

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I notice she didn't favor is with a picture. Couldn'tbe that hard to obtain.

First of all, I'd love to know just what "Hittite-Minoan" is. Minoan (or at least Linear A and B, which we're pretty sure was the written form of what the Minoans spoke) and Hittite are written with different alphabets. And are fairly different languages. Linguistically, it's a bit like saying "English-Ethiopian".

The Dr Fell mentioned is a notorious practicer of epigraphy (his training and legitimate field was zoology), but never bothered to learn the languages he was talking about. Epigraphy studies just writing and not the actual language. My favourite quote concerning Dr Fell and his "studies":

"Fell's work [contains] major academic sins, the three worst being distortion of data, inadequate acknowledgment of predecessors, and lack of presentation of alternative views."

and

""Fell often worked from material mailed to him, which he reacted to (read: "deciphered") without checking further. This seems to be a general complaint regarding his epigraphic work. He was an accomplished scholastic, well published, who knew the rigors of academic argument and presentation, yet with his epigraphic work Fell seldom stepped away from his desk to research an item or view it in person. Such pervasive carelessness (or, as some say, arrogance) marred his efforts and induced a negative reaction in most professionals."

-Jaylemurph

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First of all, I'd love to know just what "Hittite-Minoan" is. Minoan (or at least Linear A and B, which we're pretty sure was the written form of what the Minoans spoke) and Hittite are written with different alphabets. And are fairly different languages. Linguistically, it's a bit like saying "English-Ethiopian".

That is what I thought too. What the heck is "Hittite-Minoan"? The Hittites and Minoans were two completely different cultures that sprang from completely different parts of the world.

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That is what I thought too. What the heck is "Hittite-Minoan"? The Hittites and Minoans were two completely different cultures that sprang from completely different parts of the world.

Well, seems to be the famous case of "evidence by dialectic acrobatics", either there is something better forthcoming or I am afraid that somebody better take off the lid of the dustbin...... :devil:

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Though this might be more apropos another thread, I have heard a theory by Frederik Woudhuizen that /Etruscan/ is a form of Luvian, which is closely related to Hittite. But it's not a very well-regarded theory, since it hangs together on a lot of "ifs" and "maybe then"s. I've never heard of a jump from Hittite to Minoan, though.

--Jaylemurph

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The Newberry Stone is alive and well. It is in 8 pieces, but still in tact.

It is in St. Ignace, Michigan, the little town that hosts the Northern side of the Mackinac bridge.

Just recently, in 2007, the city of St. Ignace acquired the "Fort de Buade Museum" which was amassed over some 30 years by a retired dentist "Doc" Benson. It was a private collection with some 4,000 items,( a small Smithsonian around here).

I am the director of that Museum. I can assure you that the Newberry Stone is there. I look at it everyday.

At first, local archaeologists and historians told me that it was more than likely a hoax.

The Michilimackinac Historical Society, The Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians, and the City of St. Ignace , all worked together over a years time to try to obtain the Museum because it housed relics of our Native and French History which are priceless.

That was our main concern. The Museum was very old, housed in an old garage over 100 years old.

There was little documentation on the items in the Museum, and nothing on the Stone, besides the display articles.

The display consists of materials from old newpapers which tell about the Stone, how it was found , who found it, and that it had been translated at one time.

The display with the Newberry Stone states that Doc Benson obtained the stone from the old Fort Algonquin Museum in St. Ignace when it closed in the 60's. This is confirmed in a 2006 article an Archaeological Magazine which states the stone was last known to be at the Fort Algonquin Museum in St. Ignace but then disappeared after it closed.

I was surprised to read that the author of this article thought the stone was lost forever.

The Newberry Stone is here in St. Ignace.

Just recently, the vice-president of the Historical Society found a book which holds the translation.

We have only just obtained the Museum and have opened for our first season.

I have yet to get someone here to look at this stone to find out once and for all if it is real or a hoax.

The Mystery of that Stone remains to be unraveled, but the good news is that it is NOT LOST.

IT IS ALIVE AND WELL AND IN ST. IGNACE MICHIGAN.

Well it is a good thing the stone is still safe. Will you grace us with pictures of it and perhaps and sketch of how it would look intact with its symbols? What are your thoughts of the stone? Real? Of recent manufacture? From what culture?

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Posted (edited)

Well it is a good thing the stone is still safe. Will you grace us with pictures of it and perhaps and sketch of how it would look intact with its symbols? What are your thoughts of the stone? Real? Of recent manufacture? From what culture?

Of course, if there are pictures around, it makes it that much easier to say "Hey, a badly-constructed fake purporting to be in a language that doesn't exist!" So I'm betting we won't see any clear, distinct images, though I'm willing to believe some dark, blurry ones might surface.

About a century ago, these sorts of things -- inscriptions in "ancient languages", Egyptian hoardes of gold in caves, giant bones, etc -- were very common. They were usually newspaper fakes and usually did two things: "explain" how primitive Indian tribes managed to scrape together a semblance of civilisation from stealing it from the known ancients, and to attract attention to out-of-the-way small towns. The museum curator might be deliberately perpetrating a hoax (which I don't really think), but she may well be a third or fourth generation dupe.

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph

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Posted (edited)

I feel as it might be a fake as well as most of these things are but I would rather have an open mind and at least hear her views before claiming she is attempting to pass off a hoax knowingly or is a latter generation dupe. The problem with skeptics is that they are as fanatical in not believing anything and trying to explain things away prematurely as some believers are as fanatical in believing and accepting prematurely. She has yet to post again regarding my questions so until then I would rather wait before concluding anything but even then a conversation with her sounds more interesting than either supporting or condemning someone before they even have a chance to speak fully and even after that is done the conversation might suffice without still dismissing or accepting anything. Be well jayle.

The writer of the article might also have made many mistakes in gathering their information and perhaps she, being closer to the object, has better information regarding the script, the discovery, its condition, etc...

Edited by Clovis

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I feel as it might be a fake as well as most of these things are but I would rather have an open mind and at least hear her views before claiming she is attempting to pass off a hoax knowingly or is a latter generation dupe. The problem with skeptics is that they are as fanatical in not believing anything and trying to explain things away prematurely as some believers are as fanatical in believing and accepting prematurely. She has yet to post again regarding my questions so until then I would rather wait before concluding anything but even then a conversation with her sounds more interesting than either supporting or condemning someone before they even have a chance to speak fully and even after that is done the conversation might suffice without still dismissing or accepting anything. Be well jayle.

The writer of the article might also have made many mistakes in gathering their information and perhaps she, being closer to the object, has better information regarding the script, the discovery, its condition, etc...

True, but what I don't do is subject people to tediously-understated moral superiority. I think most people can appreciate a plainly-stated view more than this sort of passive-aggressive superciliousness.

--Jaylemurph

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Well as long as Judi knows she is welcome to return and there are those willing to engage in an open conversation with her without casting any judgment one way or another and that she is in good company that is all that really matters. I will take this attitude with most, regardless of what they have to share, that they are welcome to speak, and have nothing to fear from those who just want to dismiss them and claim everything they are saying is either fabrication or imagination. They are much more interesting regardless if I agree or not than those who simply want to prove others wrong time and time again. People who are like that are just in the way of open conversation and exchange of ideas IMHO

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As I read further into this "story" I laced my boots up to the furthest point, as it was getting extremely thick in here.

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I would also like some links please. I just looked and can not find anything about the stone/tablet on the web that isn't:

1. UM

2. Written in Swedish, or another foreign language I don't have proficiency (clue) in.

3. Isn't a religious based site.

Regards,

Mabon.

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As I read further into this "story" I laced my boots up to the furthest point, as it was getting extremely thick in here.

I would wear fishing pants....

Sorry, been trying on the net to find this quote but it seems not to be there, but here is a source of what other scientist thought of Barry Fell's "interpretations" :

Kenneth L. Feder (1996) "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology", Mountain View: Mayfield Publishing Co., ISBN 1-55934-523-3, pp. 101-107.

Which seems to be: not much.

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For everybody's information, Judi A. Engle (presumably Judi E.) is president of the Michilimackinac Historical Society and manager of the Fort de Buade Museum. This is from The St. Ignace News, May 3rd,2007.

For confirmation, see: http://www.stignacenews.com/news/2007/0503...torial/007.html

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Maybe a rubbing of the stone or part of it could be made. It should scan well and provide the clues to what is on it very well.

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Maybe a rubbing of the stone or part of it could be made. It should scan well and provide the clues to what is on it very well.

Well, looks like the stone is gone AND the pictures are gone... go figure.

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Well, looks like the stone is gone AND the pictures are gone... go figure.

I wonder how you spell sucker in Hittite-Minoan?

Or is that too cruel?

--Jaylemurph

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