Limbo/Heaven and re-incarnation

[Kismit]

This thread has been inspired by Al and As , which is what I think I may refer to them as from now on cause I think it's funny .

What are your opinions on the after life ? Is there a limbo for spirits to mill round in ? Different levels of Limbo , different levels of spirit or both ?

I think it is best to let others start this thread rolling before unleashing my own humble opinions .

So what are you all waiting for 1 2 3 postulate

( I love that word )

[Kismit]

Allright I have waited long enough . I am begining Auto postulation ....

Okay . Where do we go to ?

My belief is somewhere between the Limbo theory and the Heaven one . I can't quite get my head around the thought of all spirits heading off to the same place after passing over . So I cant fully grasp the Limbo concept . Also the fact that people may have made contact with the spirit world in different ways suggest that not all spirits hang out in the same place .

Now then Reincarnation .

Aslan wrote , in the other thread ..

The problem there is that if you agree to reincarnation you must agree that there are a finite number of 'intelligences' in the universe, as the universe is of finite size - not to say the world - and you can't just keep adding and adding an infinite number of things to a finite thing.

How can you be sure that all spirits have incarnated at some time ? Perhaps there are still many spirit beings who are still to be incarnated .

[Delacorr]

I think that once your dead...your gone..

[Kismit]

So your arguing against reincarnation then Delacore?

I'm sure we could get you to post more than just a few sentences on your opinion ... or are you not up to that ?

[Delacorr]

I am just not sure...the problem is the lack of proof..

[neen]

I believe in reincarnation, but like you said Kismit, maybe some souls haven't been "born" yet,and are "new" souls ready to experience all of lifes pleasures and pains.And maybe they do have different levels of spirit,such as spirits who have done bad having to go back to there earthly incarnation and try not to repeat what they have done before.Maybe it's all just a big learning process to try and reach that highest level of spirit.

[Kismit]

So Neen , What do you think the ultimate goal of reincarnation is? Where do you think we go to ?

[neen]

The ultimate goal of reincarnation?Maybe it's what I said, to reach the highest possible level of spirit, to keep learning and experiencing what we can.

Where do we go to?I think that all depends on what you believe, I don't follow any religion but that doesn't mean I don't believe in the afterlife( as you know from my previous post)Maybe we go to somewhere we can keep learning, but at a different more spiritual level.

[Kismit]

I personnally enjoy the Kabalistic thoughts on reincarnation as an ongoing process .

You start your spirtuall growth cycle on the lowest rung of athiest/skeptic non believer and work your way up to a supreme spiritual being . After you have worked so hard to reach this ultimate goal it is time to take a break from your spiritual quest and so you are placed all the way back down the ladder to athiest/skeptic non believer for a little rest . . I like this theory as there really is no end to the cycle . Which to me makes sence because we arn't evolving spiritually as a species very quickly .

But what I really want to discuss is do the different type of spirits ie. poltergiests , photographic replays. exist on different planes of existance .?

Delacorr , I am not asking for proof or even knowledge just speculation . I just want to brainstorm a few of the possibilities .

[Bizarro]

this thread needs Loonboy. i miss him

[Space Moose]

I'm with Delacorr. Once you die, that is it - the only things left for you are burial, memoriams and possibly a natural process of mummification.

So go change the world today! Write something! Do something! Have kids!

As for reincarnation - there seems to be an increasing number of people on the earth - where do all of the souls come from? What did they do before there was any life on Earth? What would they do if the earth was (and it will be) destroyed?

[Homer]

Kismit, your use of open ended questions as a way of replying to other peoples posts to obtain further information impresses me. Do you now, or have you previously, had a position which required negotiating?

[Kismit]

Sheesh I'm nowhere near as good at it as you are Homer Does being the Middle child count as a negotiator ?

As for reincarnation - there seems to be an increasing number of people on the earth - where do all of the souls come from? What did they do before there was any life on Earth? What would they do if the earth was (and it will be) destroyed?

Space Moose these are the questions I would like to look into . Except for maybe that last one

this thread needs Loonboy. i miss him  

me too....

[Althalus]

Yep, we defenately need LB back, he would most likely know what to put.

Right, I like the idea of reincarnation and I also like the idea of repeating it continuosly, and maybe we do this so that slowly over a long time, we gradually move up the ladder while we are still alive here on earth, and then not need to do this, either that or we continuously do this so that we learn and gain experiences and learn to be better for it.

I believe that the traditional view of reincarnation is that if we are evil we go back down the ladder and get reincarnated as something lower than us, like insects and rocks and the like, but as we are good, we move up the ladder and get reincarnated as something higher, such as humans and afterwards spiritual beings.

Ok, so, why would we need to learn things each time?

I like Feists answer for this, he says that maybe we do this because the creator being learns through us, and what we do, and this way he learns things.

So the final outcome of this slow dragging up the rungs would be to let humanity as it is here on earth be more spiritual.

As for the question where do all of the extra people come from if we reincarnate?

Well, I would think that the souls reincarnate from one of a number of places:

1 - There are a LOT of souls out there where ever they come from

2 - There are aliens andwe reincarnate from these occasionally

3 - We do reincarnate from bugs and plants and the like

What did they do before the earth existed?

Maybe this was done on another planet, or in another dimension/plane, whatever, or maybe when earth was created, the creator took the opportunity and thought up the idea of reincarnation to learn things.

What will happen when the earth is destroyed?

Going on from what I put above, maybe it will carry on, but in some other dimension/plane, or whatever.

[Nancy]

I think that once your dead...your gone..

Well? Isn't that a depressing thought........

Religious aspects aside (difficult for some people to do, I realize)

Proof seems to me, to be all around us. I imagine my reasoning is due

to my own personal experiences.

How else can very young children with UNUSUAL abilities be explained?

Simply "gifts" from a Higher Being?

I've had experiences too numerous to count, where I KNOW I've never visited a specific place, yet? I know the area like I've lived there all of THIS lifetime.

There are a few places, where I feel "at home"....... Williamsburg, VA is one.

Why do I relate so well to different periods of History, and not others?

Why am I convinced that I lived in Wyoming in 1847? Too many John Wayne movies? Possible, I'm sure.

Most of all, I just can't reason the "purpose" for being here to only die and ............ that's it.

I've also had "contact" with both of my deceased parents, as well as a step-son. Am I 'brainwashed' by psychics? I don't think so.

I deeply believe it is all a learning process, as others here have mentioned.

"Limbo" is too cruel for me to accept. The concept of "Heaven" and "Hell" isn't plausable to me either.

Where do we "go"? To me, it's as simple as going through an open portal. In other words, moving from one plane of reality, to another. The reason? To "grow".... to improve one's "outlook"....... TO learn what LOVE is.......

To give other souls an "oomph"..... To become closer to "perfection" which

is really quite a job!

Have I postulated well enough?

[Space Moose]

In response to Althus (unquoted for space reasons):

Well, if we are forced up and down by some criteria we are unaware of, how is it that there is not a large group of people at one end or the other? All deeds would have to be (by some standard) either good or evil. If we assume the practice of calling those things that benefit the species to which a soul belongs as good, then the lower levels should be emptying out much faster than the very high levels could return down. The reverse would be true if they were evil.

If we reincarnate from all species regardless of location (thus including aliens and such) there still exists a fundamental problem of where were they all before and where will they all go after. A definate start and end are likley at any level/plane/planet/universe/etc, so there must be someplace for these souls to have been and a place for them to go afterwards, or they are simply destoryed which makes them not much more special than any other creature.

I can't fault believers in reincarnation for not having answers to this, no one does. In the end, everyone must be able to say that they believe reincarnation is possible or it is not. Based on my everyday observations that things live then die and nothing seems to change much, I would be forced to conculde that there is nothing that ties everything together.

New stuff:

Have you noticed that stories of past lives for people never seem to go beyond the common realm of western knowledge? I have heard many stories of people who were told they were a prince or princess in some ancient culture (probably TOO many) or perhaps slaves that worked on some easily recgonizable monument. I have yet to hear of anyone who was told they simply toiled away at some unfulfilling work in their 30 past lives.

Why is this? I believe that people do not like being told that they are living essentially for naught. In this regard, if you are likley to believe in reincarnation, you would be much more open to the thought that you were someone important because it would make you feel good. From this please feel free to infer that I believe that people who "see into your past" do so only for monetary reasons and that what they tell you is in no way based on fact.

[Nancy]

If we reincarnate from all species regardless of location (thus including aliens and such) there still exists a fundamental problem of where were they all before and where will they all go after.  A definate start and end are likley at any level/plane/planet/universe/etc, so there must be someplace for these souls to have been and a place for them to go afterwards, or they are simply destoryed which makes them not much more special than any other creature.  

I can't fault believers in reincarnation for not having answers to this, no one does.  In the end, everyone must be able to say that they believe reincarnation is possible or it is not.  Based on my everyday observations that things live then die and nothing seems to change much, I would be forced to conculde that there is nothing that ties everything together.

New stuff:

Why is this?  I believe that people do not like being told that they are living essentially for naught.  In this regard, if you are likley to believe in reincarnation, you would be much more open to the thought that you were someone important because it would make you feel good.

Adding my two cents.

I don't believe in transmutation.

I feel humans reincarnate into humans but no one is FORCED to do so,

it is an individual choice. The cliche is still the same. No one else is

"just like me.. or you." Remaining on "The Other Side" would not detract

from 'gaining points' so to speak, as other Souls can teach from experience.

The goal of 'coming back' is to advance your scope of knowledge through

actual events, as they happen and to interact with the "living" around you.

Being open to reincarnation and doing so, always helps to erase some of the

nasty traits from your prior life and make up for past discretions.

Why then do some Souls come back and are "evil"? Basically, slow learners

with egos that require attention, not to mention that Humans are imperfect

to being with, and some have trouble "getting it."

"Souls" are energy that cannot be destroyed. Where they all were "before" and will go "after" is the same place. Another plane of existence

not Heaven or Hell.... which to many, based on religious teachings equal Good vs Evil.

There isn't a debate in my beliefs that souls are destroyed, making anyone/creature/critter "more special than any other." The distinction lies in

the level of evolution and the basic "food" chain. In other words, Humans

are more evolved mentally, physically, emotionally than the frog that sits in

a pond, or an eagle soaring overhead. Each species serves a purpose, the details of which, I cannot say.

If your everyday experiences prove to you that things just live and die, with

nothing really changing, just compare the past with now! Medical advances alone have altered life spans, as a quick example.

It seems to me that most opinions expressed on this subject so far have not

included emotions in the mix, just scientific speculation. Not a criticism, just an observation. Humans are not just made of chromosomes, but feelings, hopes

as well.

I've never had past life regression, don't intend to try. I'll muddle through this

lifetime hopefully doing the best I can and learn as much as my capabilities

permit.

Kismit? Your question about different types of Spirits? My feeling is that there

are several planes of existence, beyond this one. Different levels of growth, for

lack of a better word. Poltergiests, as an example.... are trapped between planes, the same for "Ghosts"..... They didn't get the message or their demise

was so unexpected/violent, they have difficulty finding their niche.

I do know, that I've already put in my "order" for the next go round. Long legs,

great mammary glands, thick hair and a sexy smile.

[Kismit]

I do know, that I've already put in my "order" for the next go round. Long legs,

great mammary glands, thick hair and a sexy smile.

I hope you dont come back as a Man That could be akward , with the Mammory glands and all ..

Something I noticed while reading everyone's posts is how quickly we equate good and evil with spiritual learning . How evil is evil ? Is it the guy sitting in jail for stealing from old ladies is it the Murderers , the rapists is it the person in Highschool who picked on the little kids ?

Spiritually speaking I don't think we come back to learn every life time . Infact I posulate that most spirits are here to teach .

Could that highschool bully actually of shown one little child how to stand up for them selves or how to believe more in themselves ?If so is the Bully good or evil ?.

I like Feists answer for this, he says that maybe we do this because the creator being learns through us, and what we do, and this way he learns things.

I must read some of this man's books .

As for the idea of re-incarnating as a tree then why not ? When I was younger ,I used to argue that even if you look at death in its most synical manner then you still have to believe in a form of re-incarnation .

At least in the form of composting down to create food for the worms and then worms for the birds and so on and so on and so on ...So why not tree's?

And as for the where do all the souls come from ? I would like to refer to the theory of cosmic conscience . perhaps the souls are pulled out of an etheral mass like little balls pulled from a large lump of play-doh also known as the cosmic conscience .

And then how does this ball of doh work into the Limbo/Heaven/afterlife and ghosts and poltergiests then?

`Where do spirits go ? I cant believe that a small child who dies suddenly is doomed to become a poltergiest or trapped spirit form of some sort , and still be able to believe in a spiritual purpose at the same time . So I have to think that there are different levels for all spirits as they seem to comunicate from different places . Poltergiests with physical energy , replay ghosts with electromagnetic fields and other spirit forms through mediums .

[Althalus]

Or, how about this, each soul is pulled from a creator being and is reincarnated as had been suggested, but how about after we finish beng reincarnated the souls go back into the single mass (as people would say, going back to God).

And in this way the spiritual creator learns from us.

Also I agree with nancy, no-one os forced to be reincarnated, and that is why mediums can get in touch with the departed souls of family members, it is the family members that who have chosen not to be reincarnated that they contact.

On the other hand, if they want to be reincarnated then they get the chance to go up or down the rungs, but this would mean that they apppear as someone else when they get back to wherever after they die again.