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Disinterested

Pro-Bush or Anti-Bush?

25 posts in this topic

Walken and star_child will be taking part in this formal, 1 vs 1 debate.

George W. Bush: You either love him or hate him.

Walken will be debating for President Bush;

star_child will debate against.

You can begin when ready! thumbsup.gif

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President George W. Bush

A hypocrite, a liar, an idiot and a cheat. A stupid red neck. A greed ridden war monger. A dishonest coward. A murderer.

President George W. Bush - None of the above

Ever since President Bush was first elected he was shot down by the media. Claims such as 'He only made it because of his father' began even before then. He was the victim of prejudice then, and it is that prejudice that continues even now.

President Bush is a man of honour. He is an intelligent man whose ideas, although proactive, are well thought out, consistent and in the intrests of not only his country, but of world peace.

President Bush. Clearly he did something great, because he has now been elected as president of the United States of America twice.

President Bush. Clearly he has got some brain power, as he's confronted terrorism head-on rather than side-stepping around the issue like evrey other president to date. He has confronted the problem and tackled it.

President Bush. Clearly he's got some morales, as he liberated the innocent civillians of Iraq from Saddam Husseins regime of terror. He has ended their nightmare.

President Bush. Obviously he's done something right, as he's now ensured his own place in history.

President Bush - An honest, intelligent, leader. A man who has shown initative and courage whilst in power - Who has saved thousands of lives, confronted terrorism, toppled vicouse dictators and made the world a better place.

President Bush

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Posted (edited)

star_child has withdrawn from the debate.

We are currently seeking 1 participant to debate against President Bush.

Edited by Disinterested

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I will nominate myself to protest against yes.gif

What is the timeline to reply? Thanks for the opportunity thumbsup.gif

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Posted (edited)

Hi Me_Again, thanks for your interest!

I'd like to have an intro from you within a week from today. You can PM me to let me know if it's not possible. thumbsup.gif

So we now have Walken debating for President Bush; and Me_Again who will debate against.

Good luck guys!

Edited by Disinterested

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When I say that I am anti-Bush, I am saying that I disagree with his political decisions. When I say that I disagree with his political decisions, I am not saying he is a liar or a murderer. I am not saying that he is a reptoid or part of a secret society or New World Order. I am not saying that I am against his morales or his patriotism.

I will keep all of President Bushs' personal issues out of this debate. I will be arguing against his political decisions as the President of the United States.

I will show that President Bushs' decisions have hurt and hindered the growth of our world (not to be confused with the corporate world). I will show that President Bush has poor communication skills and often changes his stance on various issuses, leaving the general public bewildered.

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Posted (edited)

President Bush

More than fifty million Americans can't be wrong

It is hard for me to defend President Bush's presidential disecions if they have not yet been questioned. None the less, I will do my best to confront the most common and will then respond to my opponents introduction

I will show that President Bush has poor communication skills

This part stuck out the most to me. It is always said that President Bush is, judging from his communication skills, an idiot. There are even web lists circulating with lists of foolish things he has said.

I tell you this - If I followed you around for six years I would without a doubt hear you say some stupid things too.

He makes mistakes, true - But he is only human. If anything the mistakes he does make just help us realise that he is indeed human, beneath the responsabilaties, authority and public opinion.

So much hype is built up around President Bush. At least once a week we can see an article dismissing him as an idiot, and thats in the UK, not counting for the USA. He has faced more pivotal presidential discesions then any president in recent memory and has performed admirably under pressure.

and often changes his stance on various issuses, leaving the general public bewildered.

The world is changing by the day. In a second the economey can face crisis or boost to unbeleivable lengths. As things change, our approach to these things must change. If a fence continuinly rises we must, without a doubt, jump higher than planned in order to overcome it.

The War on terror

September 11th 2001

On September 11th 2001, inhuman monsters, blinding by religeous conviction and blood lust, planned and performed a vicous and horrendous operation, the largest terrorist assult on the USA, argueably, ever - The attack of the World Trade centers.

As of August 16, 2002, a total of 2,726 death certificates related to the WTC attacks had been filed. The median age for these decedents was 39 years. 2,726 people had their lives cut when they were barely half way through.

2,726 Children, woman and men dead. This is not just a number - These are people. More than two and a half thousand of them. Married men and woman, children looking foward to starting school.

Now, put yourself in President Bush's shoes. What do you do once you've received intelligence that the masterminds behind this atrocity are not only hidden in Afghanistan laughing at their victims, but planning more attacks?

Option 1 - Leave them be.

Let's not chase down the monsters that killed almost three thousand American people. Let's leave them there. Let's keep a straight face as we tell the mothers of the dead that we're going to simply let them get away with it.

I don't think so. no.gif

Option 2 - Make them pay

These monsters deserve to be punished. They killed without a thought - they murdered innocent people in the heart of The USA.

Let's follow our intelligence - Let's go to their hiding place, flush them out and punish them.

I certainly know what I would do. What president Bush did, and what I hope he will continue to do. His actions have made our world a safer place, not just for the people of the USA, but for us all.

That concludes my first main body post

Edited by Walken

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Walken Posted Today, 08:49 AM

  President Bush

More than fifty million Americans can't be wrong

It is hard for me to defend President Bush's presidential disecions if they have not yet been questioned. None the less, I will do my best to confront the most common and will then respond to my opponents introduction

[source 1]

It is hard for the public to determine where President Bush stands on various issues. On 31 separate occasions, 17 national leaders have requested President Bush to provide responses to citizens on issuses, through the National Political Awareness Test. President Bush has refused to do this, leaving the public dumbfounded as to where he actually stands on various issues. Futhermore, when president Bush changes his stance regarding political decisions, he further dumbfounds the public. A few examples are as follows...

Regarding Social Security Surplus

"We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus" [President Bush addressing the public on 3-3-01]

On 2-6-02 The New York Times reported that...

"The Presidents new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs through 2013, ultimately diverting more than 1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes."

Regarding The Department of Homeland Security

On 3-19-02

"So, creating a cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still have agencies with in the Federal Government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a cabinet post doesn't solve anything" [White House Spokesman, Ari Fleisher]

On 6-6-02

"So tonight I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: Securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush]

Regarding Iraq Funding

On 2-2-04

"We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04'" [White House Budget Director, Joshua Bolton]

On 5-5-04

"I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to your troops"

[President Bush]

Regarding the War on Terror

"I don't think you can win the War on Terror" [President Bush on 8-30-04]

And the very next day he says,

"Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win the War on Terror" [President Bush on 8-31-04]

These are only a few of his many contradictions. It is the responsibility of our President, to clearly represent his intentions regarding important issuses. Clearly, President Bush hasn't been able to do so; Thus, leaving the public dumbfounded.

To quote President Bush...

[source 2]

"I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain why I say things. Thats the interesting thing about being the President"

Source 1

Source 2

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Posted (edited)

Changes

In this post I will confront my opponents first arguement against Bush, his occasional change in stance in regard to events.

It is hard for the public to determine where President Bush stands on various issues. On 31 separate occasions, 17 national leaders have requested President Bush to provide responses to citizens on issuses, through the National Political Awareness Test. President Bush has refused to do this, leaving the public dumbfounded as to where he actually stands on various issues.

Evrey President to date has done this. True, perhaps we notice it more with Bush because of the new age we live in, but refusing to comment is nothing new to the Bush team.

And let's not forget the several hundred, if not thousand, responses he has provided...

Inconsistency?

As mentioned earlier, we live in changing times. As such, as times change we must adapt to these changes, and subsequently change ourselves.

Regarding Social Security Surplus

"We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus" [President Bush addressing the public on 3-3-01]

On 2-6-02 The New York Times reported that...

"The Presidents new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs through 2013, ultimately diverting more than 1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes."

The rule above certainly applies here, and I'm sure we could name half a dozen presidentrs who have done similar things.

Further more, the two quotes are more than a year from eachother. The changes in this time are very severe. What happens in that year? The war on terror begins after September 11th? To name but one. As things change, we change.

Regarding The Department of Homeland Security

On 3-19-02

"So, creating a cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still have agencies with in the Federal Government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a cabinet post doesn't solve anything" [White House Spokesman, Ari Fleisher]

On 6-6-02

"So tonight I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: Securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush]

Note that the first quote is said by a Whitehouse spokesmen, not President Bush. It is almost certain that President Bush did not even write what he said.

The quotes are not as far apart, but there is still a lot of room for change. And remember, the threat or terrorism climaxed in the closing months of 2002 (Bali Bomb), therefore a threat of terrorism was evident. The goverment responded.

And in their response they perhaps saved millions of lives. wink2.gif

Regarding Iraq Funding

On 2-2-04

"We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04'" [White House Budget Director, Joshua Bolton]

On 5-5-04

"I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to your troops"

[President Bush]

The issue of the Iraq war, and it's Anti-Bush Value, I will confront and hope to destroy in my last post. In regard to these quotes;

I think we can all agree that the Iraq war is nothing as expected when the first quote was said, More than a year ago at barely the beggining of the war.

Now the war in Iraq has visiably changed. As usual, we change.

And the first quote was neither said by President Bush, and does say 'anticipate'.

Regarding the War on Terror

"I don't think you can win the War on Terror" [President Bush on 8-30-04]

And the very next day he says,

"Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win the War on Terror" [President Bush on 8-31-04]

The first quote is clearly supposed to illustrate that there is, and always will be terrorism, and you will never get rid of it fully.

The second quote is obviously talking about the war against the Taliban, which the public now refer to as the war on terror. Although he used the same wording, the two are completley differnt, other than the fact that the second quote does refer to a part of the war on terror. Not all of it.

Clearly, President Bush hasn't been able to do so; Thus, leaving the public dumbfounded.

Have you ever heard the experssion "All arguements become redundant after seven days?" It applies here.

Most of these quotes were said more than a year apart. I suppose when President George Bush junior the 19th tells us that the war on terror shall be won the same first quote will be used?

President Bush does what he has to. Now, I think we can all agree that a lot changes in a year, especially in the political spectrum.

Therefore we change to.

"I'm the commander - see, I don't need to explain why I say things. Thats the interesting thing about being the President"

Completley true. He is the commander. You elected him.

Now, President Bush does withhold information. He does this in the intrest of national security. He does this in the intrest of the USA. He does this in the intrest of the World.

My opponent, as her introduction reveals, has placed a lot of faith in this arguement pulling through. I hope I have satisfactorly explained why his changes in stance are not only nessecery, but inevitable, as they are with many presidents.

That concludes my second main body post. Over to you, Me Again thumbsup.gif

Edited by Walken

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Walken Posted Today, 03:11 PM

Inconsistency?

As mentioned earlier, we live in changing times. As such, as times change we must adapt to these changes, and subsequently change ourselves.

Yes, we do live in changing times, that is a consistent fact. But the inconsistency of President Bush is not due to changing times. I will post a few more of his inconsistencies and move on to the next point in my argument...

[source 1]

Regarding Osama Bin Laden

"I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

"I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

Walken...

Further more, the two quotes are more than a year from eachother. The changes in this time are very severe. What happens in that year? The war on terror begins after September 11th? To name but one. As things change, we change.

Not even a year passed and President Bush changes his stance. How come his opinion of Osama Bin Laden changed? He was held responsible for 9/11.

[source 1]

Regarding Saddam/al Qaeda Link

"You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

"We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

Walken...

I think we can all agree that the Iraq war is nothing as expected when the first quote was said, More than a year ago at barely the beggining of the war.

Your right, the Iraq War is nothing as expected and the public is slowly becoming aware of this, emerging from their perplexed state.

Walken...

Now the war in Iraq has visiably changed. As usual, we change.

Have you ever heard the experssion "All arguements become redundant after seven days?" It applies here.

What is consistent regarding President Bush, are his odd speech patterns. I will quote Bush from the Presidential debate...[source 2]

At one point Bush said..."And thats not how a commander in chief acts"...Then he stumbled over himself, sputtering incomprehensible sounds. Then in an annoyed tone he snarled, "Now let me finish". It is theorized that President Bush is wired during his speeches, which would explain the famous 'Bushisms' he is responsible for. Can you name another President who has done such a poor job, during his public speaking? The spokesman for President Bush may be speaking directly into his ear.

Walken...

Note that the first quote is said by a Whitehouse spokesmen, not President Bush. It is almost certain that President Bush did not even write what he said.

Would the Spokesman for our President say something, that the President didn't first approve? Doesn't the spokesman speak for the President, when he is unable to do so?

Walken...

Now, President Bush does withhold information. He does this in the intrest of national security. He does this in the intrest of the USA. He does this in the intrest of the World.

Your right, President Bush does withhold information, important information. This is not in the interest of the USA or the world, it is for his own interests.This is especially true in regard to the War in Iraq, the War on Terrorism. In my next post I will elaborate more about this matter. It is time for the public to stop being puzzled about the reason for this War.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. - Thomas Jefferson

Source 1

Source 2

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Main body post 3

More quotes regarding inconcistent speechs, I see?

Yes, we do live in changing times, that is a consistent fact. But the inconsistency of President Bush is not due to changing times.

Then what is it due too?

President Bush's stratergys and ideas must change over time because the world changes. If we do not change we are left behind, no?

Regarding Osama Bin Laden

"I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

"I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

To begin - The quotes are once again six months apart.

Secondly, President Bush says in the first quote "I want Justice." If you interpret that as "I want Osama Bin LAden here now, and I will not rest until I have him. In six months time I will still be contributing the same amount of time and money in my search for him" then that is your interpretation, but not what he said.

Not even a year passed and President Bush changes his stance. How come his opinion of Osama Bin Laden changed? He was held responsible for 9/11.

And still is, however if President Bush does not know where hs is what is the worth of continuing to pour money and troops into his search? When Mr. Bush receives intelligence regarding his location, he will pounce, but chasing a shadow across the middle-east for eight years isn't going to help anyone.

Regarding Saddam/al Qaeda Link

"You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

"We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

Once again, the meaning of the war on terror is a war against threats to world peace. Many people interpret said war as a war primarily against the Teliban and Osama Bin LAden, however it is much bigger than that.

Just because Saddam has no visable connection 9/11 does not mean that he is no longer a threat to the people of the USA and to the world, and a truly terrible enemey in this - The war on terror.

Your right, the Iraq War is nothing as expected and the public is slowly becoming aware of this, emerging from their perplexed state.

Then surely stratergys must be changed, and we may have to go back on things we said last year?

It is theorized that President Bush is wired during his speeches, which would explain the famous 'Bushisms' he is responsible for.

Theorized. There is no proof to this, at all, and the theory is shaky at best.

Can you name another President who has done such a poor job, during his public speaking?

I take it you've never heard of Richard Nixon? "I am not a crook" w00t.gif

Would the Spokesman for our President say something, that the President didn't first approve? Doesn't the spokesman speak for the President, when he is unable to do so?

Yes, but does President Bush write his own speechs? no.gif

Your right, President Bush does withhold information, important information. This is not in the interest of the USA or the world, it is for his own interests.This is especially true in regard to the War in Iraq, the War on Terrorism. In my next post I will elaborate more about this matter. It is time for the public to stop being puzzled about the reason for this War.

I'm sure what you say will be nothing I haven't heard before and I'll counter it once issued.

George Bush - The President

Thanks to George Bush, America has backed away from the economy crushing Kyoto Protocol.

But more importantly, The USA has been able to back away from The ABM Treaty which would have prevented us from building a missile defense, which would subsequently lead to the most powerful nation in the world falling behind and becoming very vulnerable to any country with nuclear capabilaties - Almost all of them these days.

Lets not forget the international Criminal Court which could have put Americas military & government officials under threat of frivolous prosecution. OR that President Bush's overall Fiscal Year (FY) 2005 budget represents a 49% increase for elementary and secondary education since FY 2001.

George Bush is a staunch supporter of the pro-life movement and signed the Partial Birth Abortion Ban into effect. Also, A rudimentary nuclear missile defense system will for the first time go online later this year thanks to George Bush - making America a safer place to live in, which in turn makes this world a safer place.

But whats he done for the rest of the world? Well, George Bush's five-year, $15 billion Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief is the most significant strike against the spread of AIDS/HIV in the history of mankind, and will go on to save potentially billions of lives.

And the alternative to President Bush, John Kerry, did in fact, vote over 350 times for higher taxes. wacko.gif

And finally, if the facts and statistics just are too much for you and you need a human story of Mr. Bush to finish off, this one warmed my heart.

George Bush - The man.

"...Lynn Faulkner, his daughter, Ashley, and their neighbor, Linda Prince, eagerly waited to shake the president's hand Tuesday at the Golden Lamb Inn. He worked the line at a steady campaign pace, smiling, nodding and signing autographs until Prince spoke:

This girl lost her mom in the World Trade Center on 9-11."

Bush stopped and turned back.

"He changed from being the leader of the free world to being a father, a husband and a man," Faulkner said. "He looked right at her and said, 'How are you doing?' He reached out with his hand and pulled her into his chest."

Faulkner snapped one frame with his camera.

"I could hear her say, 'I'm OK,' " he said. "That's more emotion than she has shown in 2 1/2 years. Then he said, 'I can see you have a father who loves you very much.' "

"And I said, 'I do, Mr. President, but I miss her mother every day.' It was a special moment."

Special for Lynn Faulkner because the Golden Lamb was the place he and his wife, Wendy Faulkner, celebrated their anniversary every year until she died in the south tower of the World Trade Center, where she had traveled for business.

..."The way he was holding me, with my head against his chest, it felt like he was trying to protect me," Ashley said. "I thought, 'Here is the most powerful guy in the world, and he wants to make sure I'm safe.' I definitely had a couple of tears in my eyes, which is pretty unusual for me."

That concludes my third main body post. Good luck in yours, Me_Again thumbsup.gif

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Thank you for mentioning the quote...

Walken...

I take it you've never heard of Richard Nixon? "I am not a crook" 

President Bush's quotes can be compared to Nixon's, in terms of being hideous.

I will use one more example of President Bush's awful communication skills and then move on...

"Do you have blacks, too?" [November of 2001, President Bush talking to Brazilian President Fernando Cardos]

Obviously, President Bush should have had a wire in his ear that day !

Walken...

Once again, the meaning of the war on terror is a war against threats to world peace. Many people interpret said war as a war primarily against the Teliban and Osama Bin LAden, however it is much bigger than that.

Just because Saddam has no visable connection 9/11 does not mean that he is no longer a threat to the people of the USA and to the world, and a truly terrible enemey in this - The war on terror.

The reason our government gave us for going to War in Iraq, was to find Weapons of Mass destruction; However, they were not found and now the reason has turned to fighting terrorism.

Official: U.S. calls off search for Iraqi WMDs

Bush stands by decision to go to war, spokesman says

Wednesday, January 12, 2005 Posted: 9:21 PM EST (0221 GMT)

Link

Furthermore, we have learned that the plan to invade Iraq was already pre-determined...

The Downing Street "Memo" is actually a document containing meeting minutes transcribed during the British Prime Minister's meeting on July 23, 2002—eight months PRIOR to the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. The Sunday Times printed the text of this document on Sunday, May 1, 2005. Since then, several other leaked UK government documents have come to light. Together they paint a picture of a President intent on invasion, and a loyal ally troubled both by how it could be justified and by what it would bring.

Link

Walken...

But more importantly, The USA has been able to back away from The ABM Treaty which would have prevented us from building a missile defense, which would subsequently lead to the most powerful nation in the world falling behind and becoming very vulnerable to any country with nuclear capabilaties - Almost all of them these days.

If we are the most powerful nation in the world, than surely our troops would have been better prepared for war ? ...

We went to Iraq in November of 2003. We went with flak jackets as armor, and with 5 unarmored humvees. We had 6 out of 29 people who were scheduled to get out of the Ready Reserves in the year over there. I myself was scheduled to get out in January 2004.

Because of some desperate need to get us into country ASAP, we weren't given an in-briefing. No rules of engagement, host-country sensitivities, etc. We were flown directly from Germany to Baghdad International Airport. When we arrived no one seemed to know what to do with us. Our unit was cut apart and shipped around the country.

Link

Again, this shows President Bush's awful political decisions.

Walken...

And finally, if the facts and statistics just are too much for you and you need a human story of Mr. Bush to finish off, this one warmed my heart

The facts and statistics are not too much for me, here are some statistics for you to ponder...

The Bush Administration has spent more than $140 billion on a war of choice in Iraq.

Source: American Progress

The Bush Administration sent troops into battle without adequate body armor or armored Humvees.

Sources: Fox News, Boston Globe

The Bush Administration has spent just $1.1 billion of the $18.4 billion Congress approved for Iraqi reconstruction.

Source: USA Today

Where is the rest of the money?

After receiving a memo from the CIA in August 2001 titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack America," President Bush continued his monthlong vacation

Source: CNN.com

President Bush has taken the most vacations of a US President, along with his father

The Bush Administration awarded a multibillion-dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton--a company that still pays Vice President Cheney hundreds of thousands of dollars in deferred compensation each year (Cheney also has Halliburton stock options). The company then repeatedly overcharged the military for services, accepted kickbacks from subcontractors and served troops dirty food.

Sources: The Washington Post, The Taipei Times, BBC News

Ahh, yes Halliburton, I will elaborate more on this in my next post

Top Bush Administration officials accepted $127,600 in jewelry and other presents from the Saudi royal family in 2003, including diamond-and-sapphire jewelry valued at $95,500 for First Lady Laura Bush.

Source: Seattle Times

The Bush Administration turned a $236 billion surplus into a $422 billion deficit.

Sources: Fortune, dfw.com

Maybe he could sell the jewerly ?

The Bush Administration's Secretary of Education, Rod Paige, called the National Education Association--a union of teachers--a "terrorist organization."

Sources: CNN.com

Walken...

President Bush's overall Fiscal Year (FY) 2005 budget represents a 49% increase for elementary and secondary education since FY 2001.

Sure he will...

The Bush Administration underfunded the No Child Left Behind Act by $9.4 billion.

Source: nwitimes.com

Last year the Bush Administration spent $6.5 billion creating 14 million new classified documents and securing old secrets--the highest level of spending in ten years.

Source: openthegovernment.org

The Bush Administration--reversing years of bipartisan tradition--refuses to answer requests from Democratic members of Congress about how the White House is spending taxpayer money.

Source: Washington Post

Walken...

And the alternative to President Bush, John Kerry, did in fact, vote over 350 times for higher taxes.

So what if we had higher taxes, don't you want to know how your money is being spent !

When asked at an April 2004 press conference to name a mistake he made during his presidency, Bush couldn't think of one.

Source: White House

Well I can see some, can you ?

President Bush's political decisions are hurting OUR world, I know that this debate I am engaged in, will cause more people to become AWARE, emerging from their bewildered, perplexed and puzzled state wub.gif

Is Bush concerned with helping the world ? The answer is clearly, NO !

The Bush Administration put former coal-industry big shots in the government and let them roll back safety regulations, putting miners at greater risk of black lung disease.

Source: New York Times

The Bush Administration said that even though the weed killer atrazine was seeping into water supplies--creating, among other bizarre creatures, hermaphroditic frogs--there was no reason to regulate it.

Source: Washington Post

The Bush Administration has proposed cutting the budget of the Environmental Protection Agency by $600 million next year.

Source: ems.org

President Bush broke his campaign promise to end the maintenance backlog at national parks. He has provided just 7 percent of the funds needed, according to National Park Service estimates.

Source: bushgreenwatch.org

Please don't just read this, do something about it, research for yourself and become active. We can not let our world die.

Link

I find this to be a heart-wrenching story and my thoughts and best wishes go out to everyone who has and will be effected by war. I do support our troops, but I do not support the Presidents decisions.

Profound

"Do you have blacks, too?" [November of 2001, President Bush talking to Brazilian President Fernando Cardos]

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Posted (edited)

Main Body Post 4

In this post I will review economic growth under the Bush administration. But first I will issue conter-arguements and give us some more reasons to thank President Bush

I will use one more example of President Bush's awful communication skills and then move on...

"Do you have blacks, too?" [November of 2001, President Bush talking to Brazilian President Fernando Cardos]

Obviously, President Bush should have had a wire in his ear that day !

I could not wait for you to mention this!

This quote you have provided has never been proven, and this site will confirm this. Further more, this site (an urban legend reference page) will also explain why it is highly unlikely that the quote is actually true.

Further more, here are another selection of fake Bush quotes put out by Anti-Bush activists...

The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country

If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure

One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared

I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future

The future will be better tomorrow

We're going to have the best educated American people in the world

I stand by all the misstatements that I've made

We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe

Public speaking is very easy

A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls

We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur

For NASA, space is still a high priority

Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children

It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it

It's time for the human race to enter the solar system

Without a doubt you've heard at least a couple before. The fact that they have all been proven fake proves that Anti-Bush activists are willing to lie to discredit President Bush and make him look like an idiot.

Moving on...

The reason our government gave us for going to War in Iraq, was to find Weapons of Mass destruction; However, they were not found and now the reason has turned to fighting terrorism.

Saddam and his regeime had, and always would have, been a threat to world peace regardless of whether or not they had WMD's or not, and Saddams actions, just before the war began and going back to long before the Gulf War, prove this.

Whether or not Saddam actually had WMD's can only be seen in hindsight. At the time, before the war, intelligence was received that he was/had producing/produced them, and as such is an extreamly large threat against peace in the USA and the world. It is, after receiving this intelligence, the Presidents job to act upon it.

And remember - Bush is a graduate of Harvard Business School. Exactly how many illiterate red-necks do they graduate? rolleyes.gif

We went to Iraq in November of 2003. We went with flak jackets as armor, and with 5 unarmored humvees. We had 6 out of 29 people who were scheduled to get out of the Ready Reserves in the year over there. I myself was scheduled to get out in January 2004.

Because of some desperate need to get us into country ASAP, we weren't given an in-briefing. No rules of engagement, host-country sensitivities, etc. We were flown directly from Germany to Baghdad International Airport. When we arrived no one seemed to know what to do with us. Our unit was cut apart and shipped around the country.

This does not in any way show a poor political dicesion on the part of President Bush. Being that President Bush is not in direct controll of a single unit in the army, the events that met this single unit cannot possibly be attributed to a poor political choice on his part.

The Bush Administration has spent more than $140 billion on a war of choice in Iraq.

Source: American Progress

And has saved thousands of lives from Saddams vicous regeim, potentially hundreds of millions if the intelligence received prior to the war was true. I call it a victory for World peace and Iraq - Don't you?

After receiving a memo from the CIA in August 2001 titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack America," President Bush continued his monthlong vacation

And I am determined to parachute off of the British Parliment hall with a chicken taped to my head. rolleyes.gif

If national security is under controll what good would it do for the President to return for a suspected attack? If anything it would just cause panic, no? After all, what would you want to hear "The President has returned from his holiday due to the threat of terrorism..." on your televison?

Top Bush Administration officials accepted $127,600 in jewelry and other presents from the Saudi royal family in 2003, including diamond-and-sapphire jewelry valued at $95,500 for First Lady Laura Bush.

This shows good relations with Middle-eastern countries where previously a rift has exsisted, therefore proves that Bush's international policys are doing wonders for relationships with countries that would have been considored threats to world peace 20 years ago.

The Bush Administration underfunded the No Child Left Behind Act by $9.4 billion

But they supported the millions of American families with children living almost in poverty with 10 straight months of job growth. And over a million jobs have been created this year so far thanks to George Bush's tax cuts.

Last year the Bush Administration spent $6.5 billion creating 14 million new classified documents and securing old secrets--the highest level of spending in ten years.

But we're also at the highest threat of terrorism or a major war in the last ten years (at least), therefore the spending was clearly done in the interest of national security.

don't you want to know how your money is being spent

The economey

As mentioned earlier, President Bush's tax cuts have created more than a million jobs.

The 17 percent productivity growth from the first quarter of 2000 to the first quarter of 2004 stands head and shoulders above the growth rate for any comparable period. In fact, it is better than any eight-year period since 1976. In the first 13 quarters of the Bush Administration, the basic determinant of our standard of living increased by almost as much as during the entire 32 quarters of the Clinton Administration

Over the last nine months, the economy has been booming. In the 80s, the average GDP was +2.9%. In the 90s, the average GDP growth was 3.1%. Over the last three quarters, the average GDP growth of the economy has been a sizzling 5.4%.

Analysts are forecasting that the overall economy, as measured by the gross domestic product, will grow by 4.6 percent or better this year, the fastest in two decades.

There were strong 4.5 percent growth rates in 1997 and 1999, when Bill Clinton was president and the country was in the midst of a record 10-year expansion. But if this year's growth ends up a bit faster than that, it will be the best since the economy roared ahead at a 7.2 percent rate in 1984.

That is where the money is going. To a better, brighter America. And theres an British saying - "When America picks up a pound, it passes the world a few pence" happy.gif

That concludes my fourth main body post. In my fifth, I will confont the issue of the Iraq war, round off my main arguements and summerise my arguements so far.

Good luck in your 4th main body post, Me_Again!

Edited by Walken

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Posted (edited)

Walken...

This quote you have provided has never been proven, and this site will confirm this. Further more, this site (an urban legend reference page) will also explain why it is highly unlikely that the quote is actually true.

It states that it is undetermined, whether or not President Bush said "Do you have blacks, too?"; However, it has been determined that President Bush said this...

"I had the opportunity to go out to Goree Island and talk about what slavery meant to America. It's very interesting when you think about it, the slaves who left here to go to America, because of their steadfast and their religion and their belief in freedom, helped change America. America is what it is today because of what went on in the past." 

—Bush, commenting on the significance of slavery in America's past

Source: White House, "Remarks by the President to Embassy Personnel, Leopold Sedar Senghor International Airport, Dakar, Senegal," July 8, 2003

Walken...

Without a doubt you've heard at least a couple before. The fact that they have all been proven fake proves that Anti-Bush activists are willing to lie to discredit President Bush and make him look like an idiot.

I am not willing to lie to discredit President Bush; However, I can not answer for other anti-Bush protesters. President Bush does a fine enough job of discrediting himself, without me lying about it.

Moving on...

Walken...

This does not in any way show a poor political dicesion on the part of President Bush. Being that President Bush is not in direct controll of a single unit in the army, the events that met this single unit cannot possibly be attributed to a poor political choice on his part.

It wasn't just a single unit, that was only one example. President Bush said himself...

"That's why I went to the Congress last September and proposed fundamental—supplemental funding, which is money for armor and body parts and ammunition and fuel."— President Bush , Erie, Pa., Sept. 4, 2004

Funding that should have been in place before invading Iraq, unprepared. A very poor political choice !

After receiving a memo from the CIA in August 2001 titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack America," President Bush continued his monthlong vacation

Walken...

If national security is under controll what good would it do for the President to return for a suspected attack? If anything it would just cause panic, no? After all, what would you want to hear "The President has returned from his holiday due to the threat of terrorism..." on your televison?

No, I don't want to hear that President returned from his vacation, I don't expect a President to spend 40% of his presidency on vacation. I also, would not expect the President to behave this way, after hearing about the attacks...

"As the Sep. 11 attack took place, Mr. Bush was on his way to an elementary school in Florida .  When informed of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center, where terrorists had struck just eight years prior, Bush just decided to go ahead with his photo opportunity."

“Mr. Bush arrived at the school, just before 9 am, expecting to be met by its motherly principal, Gwen Rigell. Instead he was pulled sharply aside by the familiar, bulky figure of 51-year-old Karl Rove, a veteran political fixer and trusted aide of both Mr. Bush and his father, George Sr. Mr. Rove, a fellow Texan with an expansive manner and a colorful turn of phrase, told the President that a large commercial airliner (American Flight 11) had crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Centre . Mr. Bush clenched his teeth, lowered his bottom lip and said something inaudible. Then he went into the school.”  William Langley, “Revealed: What Really Went on During Bush’s ‘Missing Hours,’” The Telegraph, December 16, 2001.

“At 9:05 a.m., the White House chief of staff, Andrew H. Card Jr., stepped into the classroom and whispered into the president's right ear, ‘A second plane hit the other tower, and America's under attack.’” David E. Sanger and Don Van Natta Jr., “After The Attacks: The Events; In Four Days, A National Crisis Changes Bush's Presidency,” The New York Times, September 16, 2001. 

“Mr. Bush remained in the elementary school for nearly a half an hour after Andy Card whispered in his ear.” Michael Kranish, “Bush: US To Hunt Down Attackers,” Boston Globe, September 11, 2001.

Link

So to sum it up...President Bush was informed that Bin Laden was determined to attack America and he stays on vacation. Then Bin Laden carries out the threat and President Bush carries on with his plan of visiting a school. And that shows a good political choice ? NOT !

Then Bin Laden is forgotten about and the tables turn to Saddam, President Bush plans to invade Iraq, prior to public knowledge. America enters a war unprepared, looking for weapons of mass destruction, which are never found. So the reason for staying in Iraq turns to fighting terrorism, our troops stay there fighting the War on Terrorism. Clearly, this shows very poor political decisions !

And I suppose that after solving the terrorism problem in Iraq, we should head for N.Korea or Iran, Afghanistan, maybe Russia ?

Walken...

And has saved thousands of lives from Saddams vicous regeim, potentially hundreds of millions if the intelligence received prior to the war was true. I call it a victory for World peace and Iraq - Don't you?

A victory for World peace, your joking right? I figured it out, your one of those Yes Men, pretending to be for President Bush, all the while exposing his facade...

if the intelligence received prior to the war was true

The intelligence received was not true. I guess that blows your theory and maybe you will...

Walken...

And I am determined to parachute off of the British Parliment hall with a chicken taped to my head. 

Link

Walken...

The economey

As mentioned earlier, President Bush's tax cuts have created more than a million jobs.

That is where the money is going. To a better, brighter America. And theres an British saying - "When America picks up a pound, it passes the world a few pence" 

The economy, another joke - right? A bigger, brighter America. Sure, we need bigger corporations and brighter lights on them. Your few pence should be used to help fight poverty cool.gif .

President George W. Bush's fiscal year (FY) 2006 budget punishes America's working families for his own misdeeds—his stubborn insistence on preserving and expanding tax breaks that mostly benefit America's wealthiest families. Unless checked by the U.S. Congress, the result of the president's misplaced priorities and irresponsible and unfair policies will produce enormous suffering for the most vulnerable of our citizens.

Link that was fixed

And if you work for Halliburton, watch out ! Maybe you would like to work in the coal mines, President Bush favors the idea...

The Bush Administration put former coal-industry big shots in the government and let them roll back safety regulations, putting miners at greater risk of black lung disease.

Source: New York Times

So what if you get black lung disease, President Bush needs coal to increase his fossil fuel stockade. Maybe you would like to work for an oil company ?

Protecting the troops is secondary to protecting the oil fields

Link

Link

To quote one of our troops...

"We joke about having transferred from the Marine Corps to the Oil Corps, or the Petrol Battalion, and while we laugh at our jokes and think we're damn funny jarheads, we know we might soon die ... squandered lives with the comedy of combat and being deployed to protect oil reserves and the rights and profits of certain American companies, many of which have direct ties to the White House.”

-- from Jarhead by Anthony Swofford

Anti-Bush, yes I surely am. Look at the facts and wake up from your bewildered, perplexed and puzzled state. The corruption is becoming uncovered, the list goes on and on...

Link

Link

Link

"You see, not only did the attacks help accelerate a recession, the attacks reminded us that we are at war." —George W. Bush, on the Sept. 11 attacks, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005

This isn't suppose to be funny - right? I need to find some humor because this topic is depressing yes.gif

"I don't know whether I'm going to win or not. I think I am.  I do know I'm ready for the job. And, if not, that's just the way it goes."

—President Bush, Des Moines, Iowa, Aug. 21, 2000

"I think the next best thing to solving a problem is finding some humor in it."

~ Frank A. Clark

"Like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air and you."

~ James Langston Hughes (1902-1967)

"That is the saving grace of humor, if you fail no one is laughing at you."

~ A. Whitney Brown

Note: I edited this entry to fix a link.

Edited by Me_Again

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5th Main body post

It states that it is undetermined, whether or not President Bush said "Do you have blacks, too?"

True, but it also says that it is highly unlikely. Remember, the source was exceptionally unreliable, whom spoke English and did not report the event til almost a year later, indicating he/she was not even present at the time, were it true.

"I had the opportunity to go out to Goree Island and talk about what slavery meant to America. It's very interesting when you think about it, the slaves who left here to go to America, because of their steadfast and their religion and their belief in freedom, helped change America. America is what it is today because of what went on in the past."

—Bush, commenting on the significance of slavery in America's past

Source: White House, "Remarks by the President to Embassy Personnel, Leopold Sedar Senghor International Airport, Dakar, Senegal," July 8, 2003

I'll admit, that was a mishap. But the message is clear - He is thanking the victims of the slave trade and making sure they know that they helped build America.

"As the Sep. 11 attack took place, Mr. Bush was on his way to an elementary school in Florida .  When informed of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center, where terrorists had struck just eight years prior, Bush just decided to go ahead with his photo opportunity."

“Mr. Bush arrived at the school, just before 9 am, expecting to be met by its motherly principal, Gwen Rigell. Instead he was pulled sharply aside by the familiar, bulky figure of 51-year-old Karl Rove, a veteran political fixer and trusted aide of both Mr. Bush and his father, George Sr. Mr. Rove, a fellow Texan with an expansive manner and a colorful turn of phrase, told the President that a large commercial airliner (American Flight 11) had crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Centre . Mr. Bush clenched his teeth, lowered his bottom lip and said something inaudible. Then he went into the school.”  William Langley, “Revealed: What Really Went on During Bush’s ‘Missing Hours,’” The Telegraph, December 16, 2001.

“At 9:05 a.m., the White House chief of staff, Andrew H. Card Jr., stepped into the classroom and whispered into the president's right ear, ‘A second plane hit the other tower, and America's under attack.’” David E. Sanger and Don Van Natta Jr., “After The Attacks: The Events; In Four Days, A National Crisis Changes Bush's Presidency,” The New York Times, September 16, 2001.

“Mr. Bush remained in the elementary school for nearly a half an hour after Andy Card whispered in his ear.” Michael Kranish, “Bush: US To Hunt Down Attackers,” Boston Globe, September 11, 2001.

To be honest, I just don't see how this can be used against President Bush.

President Bush went to the school on that day ready to meet Americas youth. Young, impressionable children wait for him eagerly. When he arrived he is told that America is under attack.

Yet still, with that on his mind, with knowledge of the thousands of deaths and an attack in the heart of his homeland, he is willing to meet these children - To not disapoint them. To keep to his word.

To me that shows Honesty, commitment and dedication - All the traits a president should/must have.

The intelligence received was not true.

Yes, but we only know that in hindsight. President Bush did not know this, and only had said intelligence to go on. Now, if you beleive a stable regeime has accsess to WMD's, you wish to conduct inspections, no? And if they do not comply?

The economy, another joke - right? A bigger, brighter America. Sure, we need bigger corporations and brighter lights on them. Your few pence should be used to help fight poverty

The Miss. World approach, hmm? 'Stop World hunger, Stop global warming, Start a new peaceful world!'

It's not going to happen. I assure you, the world leaders are doing all they can to stop poverty and the recent events, such as the G8 summit, prove this. Meanwhile, the economey of the USA is booming, the best it has been in years - wheres the problem?

But now, in this - My final main body post - I've got big fish to fry.

Disarmment

A very popular criticism of President Bush is his refusal to initiate or participate in any disarment process. But disarmment is, in the modern world, not thesible.

Imagine two men standing next to each other, both with pistols aimed firmly at each others temples. Can you possibly imagine negotians?

"You put it down."

"No, you put it down!"

"No, you put it down!

This is why disarmment is not thesible.

Historical example time? Alrighty. In the era of the League of Nations, 1932, Germany complained that only it had disarmed despite the rest promising eachother they would. The league then asks other members to disarm. Do they? No - They begin to rearm. Because they're not going to disband their guns whilst the rest of the world has machine gun's pointed at them.

The same can be said here - the USA isn't going to pull apart it's weapons whilst Russia has nukes aimed at them. Can you imagine what would happen if they did?

The best thing Bush can do here is continue to arm himself - To ensure the USA always has something to back itself up.

War in Iraq

A war started on the basis of flawed intelligence, but surely we must considor that the War In Iraq has...

Neutralised the threat from Saddam Hussein - Although Saddam is an immediate threat to the people of Iraq, it cannot be denied that he poses a much larger threat to world peace, and countries such as the USA and it's allies.

Weapons of Mass destruction - We now know, in hindsight, that Saddam did not have the direct abilaty to launch WMD's, but...

"Powell said defectors had told of 'biological weapons factories' on trucks and in train cars. He displayed artists' conceptions of such vehicles.

After the invasion, U.S. authorities said they found two such truck trailers in Iraq, and the CIA said it concluded they were part of a bioweapons production line. Iraqis said the equipment made hydrogen for weather balloons, and State Department intelligence balked at the CIA's conclusion."

Source (1)

Terrorism and Terrorist links - Although Saddam did not have a direct link to 9/11 and any said link at all is debateable, He was, indisputably, a terror himself, and in his own right, an enemey of the free world and it's war against terror.

Carl W. Ford, Jr., Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research, stated in his remarks before the Senate Select Committee of Intelligence on February 11, 2003 :

"Al-Qaida's presence in Iraq has grown since 9/11, including inside Baghdad. We know that Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi spent considerable time in Baghdad during 2002, and has a network of operatives in northern Iraq in an area under the control of Ansar al-Islam. This network has been working steadily to produce toxic substances which are ready for deployment, based on recent arrests in Europe. Zarqawi controls operations outside Iraq as well, as evidenced by the assassination of USAID representative to Jordan, Lawrence Foley, in which the perpetrators reported they were acting with support from Zarqawi. Though we do not know the specific operational details of Iraq's relationship with al-Qaida yet, we do know that neither Iraq nor al-Qaida would have any compunction about using WMD in terrorist attacks against civilians. Based on the weight of our current information, I believe that al-Qaida operatives inside Iraq have positioned themselves so that they could launch operations with little or no warning."

Source (2)

Human rights abuses - Saddam is a well known threat to the free world - He ruled his people through fear and murder.

The regime's human rights record remained extremely poor, and it continued to commit numerous, serious human rights abuses. Citizens did not have the right to change the regime. The regime continued summarily to execute alleged political opponents and leaders of the Shi'a religious community.

Reports suggested that persons were executed merely because of their association with an opposition group.

The regime continued to be responsible for disappearances and to kill and torture persons suspected of or related to persons suspected of oppositional politics, economic crimes, military desertion, and a variety of other activities."

Spreading democracy - The war in iraq has spread democracy to a part of the world where any basic right as a human being is considored a privalidge. The people of Iraq now have freedom, personal liberty, and human rights.

Dr. Condoleezza Rice, United States National Security Advisor, stated in remarks to the Commission on Terrorist Attacks on April 8, 2004 :

"Today, along with many allies, we are helping the people of Iraq and Afghanistan to build free societies. And we are working with the people of the Middle East to spread the blessings of liberty and democracy as the alternatives to instability, hatred, and terror. This work is hard and dangerous, yet it is worthy of our effort and our sacrifice. The defeat of terror and the success of freedom in those nations will serve the interests of our Nation and inspire hope and encourage reform throughout the greater Middle East."

Violations of United Nation Security Council Resolutions - Heres a quote from President Bush himself.

"Yet it is now undeniable -- undeniable -- that Saddam Hussein was in clear violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441. It is undeniable that Saddam Hussein was a deceiver and a danger. The Security Council was right to demand that Saddam disarm. And America was right to enforce that demand."

The Cost of War

War is tragic. Many thousands of people were killed in this war, and many more hurt.

But we must think of the thousands that will not die, and we must think of the millions that will not be hurt. We must considor the new freedom embraced by Iraq.

We must considor that the world is a safer better place, under President Bush.

That concludes my fifth main body post

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Walken...

I'll admit, that was a mishap. But the message is clear - He is thanking the victims of the slave trade and making sure they know that they helped build America.

Mishaps that happen far to often, for me to fathom. How can his message be clear when it's twisted with improper grammar mishaps ? It is a President's responsibility to communicate with the public in an understandable way. I think we agreed earlier that President Bushs' speeches can be compared to the likes of Nixon's - "I am not a crook". I have shown President Bushs' poor communication skills and the fact that he changes his stance on issues...ahh sorry, what I meant to say was...This just doesn't fly when you are the President of the USA.

To quote a founding father...

Cherish, therefore, the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress, and Assemblies, Judges, and Governors, shall all become wolves.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787

I hope that I've helped enlighten people, in regard, to the errors of President Bush, not only his perplexing speeches but also his fallacious political decisions.

Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.

George Washington, Circular to the States, May 9, 1753

Walken...

The Miss. World approach, hmm? 'Stop World hunger, Stop global warming, Start a new peaceful world!'

Basically, there are two types of people - those who feel that war is OK and those who don't. Call it a Miss World approach if you will; However, you either think that global problems can be solved by war or you don't. Instead of saying, "Stop the war, stop world hunger, stop global warming" - should I say - "start war and global warming and keep people in poverty" ? Use a little common sense.

Walken...

I assure you, the world leaders are doing all they can to stop poverty and the recent events, such as the G8 summit, prove this. Meanwhile, the economey of the USA is booming, the best it has been in years - wheres the problem?

The problem lies in the erroneous beliefs that wars cause all of these wonderful ideals for our world. War helps the economy and the pursuit of freedom - NOT !

Booming economy ? Maybe booming for the oil companies, along with all the other war profitters.

U.S. Treasury Shows Actual 2004 Budget Deficit at $11.1 Trillion

Ultimate Crisis for Dollar Moves Beyond Possible Remedies

Hyperinflation and New Gold-Based Currency System Are Likely ConsequencesLink

Walken...

A very popular criticism of President Bush is his refusal to initiate or participate in any disarment process. But disarmment is, in the modern world, not thesible.

Disarmament? Is that what you meant to say? I've already established that the Weapons of Mass Destruction, we were to disarm Saddam Hussein of, were not found. So I suppose we should invade alot more countries to 'disarm' them ? Is the USA known to the world as a big bully ?...

"No, we won't disarm because you won't (nah, nah, nah, nah), but we will invade your country to disarm you". I don't see us invading Russia with that fallacious reasoning. Disarmament is suitable in the modern world. Peace and protecting the world and all of the inhabitants, rather than destroying the world, is the only suitable idea in my mind...

US Occupations in Iraq, Killings in Palestine

Is This Our Future?

Think Locally, Act Globally!

No Occupation! No Colonization!

No Blood for Oil! No Colonization of Iraq & Afghanistan!

No Immigrant Bashing! Health Care Not Warfare!

Books Not Bombs! Schools Not Tanks! Bring the Troops Back Home

Link

Walken...

A war started on the basis of flawed intelligence

You can say that again; Thus, proving my point that President Bush has made awful, flawed political decisions. Maybe it wasn't President Bushs' fault that the intelligence was flawed but it is his responsibility to correct it and inform the public of the flaws. I respect someone who can admit to their errors, rather than those who don't and claim to have made no mistakes.

Walken...

Carl W. Ford, Jr., Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research, stated in his remarks before the Senate Select Committee of Intelligence on February 11, 2003 :

"Al-Qaida's presence in Iraq has grown since 9/11, including inside Baghdad. We know that Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi spent considerable time in Baghdad during 2002, and has a network of operatives in northern Iraq in an area under the control of Ansar al-Islam. This network has been working steadily to produce toxic substances which are ready for deployment, based on recent arrests in Europe. Zarqawi controls operations outside Iraq as well, as evidenced by the assassination of USAID representative to Jordan, Lawrence Foley, in which the perpetrators reported they were acting with support from Zarqawi. Though we do not know the specific operational details of Iraq's relationship with al-Qaida yet, we do know that neither Iraq nor al-Qaida would have any compunction about using WMD in terrorist attacks against civilians. Based on the weight of our current information, I believe that al-Qaida operatives inside Iraq have positioned themselves so that they could launch operations with little or no warning."

No one could deny the evil that moves Saddam Hussein’s actions. This is nothing new. His criminal record goes back more than 30 years. But it was evil also that allowed and promoted his rise to power. Seems like it was okay to look the other way meanwhile Saddam slaughtered the Kurds with arms of mass destruction. At that moment Iraq was at war with Iran and the Ayatollah Khomeini, the enemy of the U.S. Germany, France, the U.S.. , England and many Asian nations supplied Saddam with the necessary ingredients to build the weapons that are now the REASON for a possible war against the Iraqi regime.

Link

Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it.

John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

This argument is getting stale. Al-Qaida this, terrorist that, raise the terror alert, take away civil liberties, we must rid the world of evil-doers. Do we really want high blood pressure caused by fear? We are spending trillions of dollars to protect ourselves, when we should be protecting our Mother Earth. We need sustainable resources and energy policies that help the EARTH. Protecting ourselves will mean nothing if Mother Earth gives in. Maybe you should hear it from someone in Iraq...

Lt. Col. Frederick P. Wellman, who works with the task force overseeing the training of Iraqi security troops, said the insurgency doesn't seem to be running out of new recruits, a dynamic fueled by tribal members seeking revenge for relatives killed in fighting.

"We can't kill them all," Wellman said. "When I kill one I create three."

Link

This war is solving nothing and that's what will be left - NOTHING.

Walken...

Dr. Condoleezza Rice, United States National Security Advisor, stated in remarks to the Commission on Terrorist Attacks on April 8, 2004 :

"Today, along with many allies, we are helping the people of Iraq and Afghanistan to build free societies. And we are working with the people of the Middle East to spread the blessings of liberty and democracy as the alternatives to instability, hatred, and terror. This work is hard and dangerous, yet it is worthy of our effort and our sacrifice. The defeat of terror and the success of freedom in those nations will serve the interests of our Nation and inspire hope and encourage reform throughout the greater Middle East."

If we are to believe that the occupation of Iraq is to achieve democracy – and not to secure control of Iraqi oil or to establish a military stronghold in the region – there is a clear and definitive solution to the quagmire that currently engulfs both the occupying forces and the Iraqi people in a rising tide of blood, frustration and despair.

Link

It took me a long time to find intelligent life on the web, there is intelligent life on earth. So, wake up from your bewildered, puzzled, perplexed state of mind...

Walken...

The Cost of War

War is tragic. Many thousands of people were killed in this war, and many more hurt.

But we must think of the thousands that will not die, and we must think of the millions that will not be hurt. We must considor the new freedom embraced by Iraq.

This is what we must consider...

101 ways to stop the war

Watch this

Impeach Bush

"I know but one freedom and that is the freedom of the mind."

Antoine De Saint-Exupery

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin

You were right Walken, times change, opinions change, choices change. Change is based on choices. War=bad choice. Peace=good choice wub.gifyes.gif

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Walken has been granted an extra couple days to post. original.gif

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President Bush

Defender of Freedom.

"Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward. And make no mistake - Freedom will be defended."

-President George W. Bush, September 11

Liberator of the oppressed

"These people have never known freedom and never known democracy, and we have bought then both."

-President George W. Bush, War on Iraq.

"America is a friend to the people of Iraq. Our demands are directed only at the regime that enslaves them and threatens us. When these demands are met, the first and greatest benefit will come to Iraqi men, women and children."

-President George W. Bush, War on Iraq.

The persistant.

"We will not tire, We will not falter, We will not fail."

-President George W. Bush, War on Terror.

The Leader

"America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people."

-President George Bush.

The President

"America is a Nation with a mission - and that mission comes from our most basic beliefs. We have no desire to dominate, no ambitions of empire. Our aim is a democratic peace - a peace founded upon the dignity and rights of every man and woman."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That concludes my side of the debate. Good luck with yours, Me_Again, and enjoy the rest of your vacation.

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FYI, Me_Again has been granted more time to post since she'll be away.

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When I say that I am anti-Bush, it doesn't mean that I am unpatriotic. I love my country and all of its beautiful, purple mountian majesties. I love the Earth, the whole universe and the people and animals, who inhabit it. When I say that I am anti-Bush it means that I disagree with his political decisions and I question and ridicule his motives. I am not unpatriotic and I need to make this clear because many people feel that disagreeing with your President, is being unpatriotic. Which, I hope won't one day bite me in the a**, if the Patriot Act comes into play hmm.gif .

I have shown that President Bush has poor communication skills and my opponent has agreed to one "mishap". When speaking to the public, as a leader of the country, it's OK to use big words but first you should know how to pronunciate.

I have shown that president Bush changes his stance on various, important issues. Change happens and opinions change; However, when you change your opinion to often, you appear confused. I have shown President Bushs' awful political decisions, from going to war in Iraq, to disregarding and dismantling important environmental policies. It is a fact that President Bush has been noted as the having the worst environmental record of a US President. Flawed intelligence, remains flawed, until it is changed and corrected. The time for change and correction is NOW. Awake America from your bewilder, perplexed, puzzled states of mind (I know, but I just had to say it one more time). I love this country and I have a deep respect for those who were here, first. It seems crazy that war can be created with such ease ! Shouldn't it be just as easy for peace ?

In conclusion, I am anti-Bush but more important than that, I am pro-patriotic. I believe in unity and being one nation under God (I choose to say under, Earth power wink2.gif ), INDIVISIBLE (look that word up original.gif ), with liberty (look that one up, too) and justice for ALL. The most important word in the world is love, no matter what language you say it in. We don't often hear politicians, using the word love and my advice to President Bush would be to use it. I do believe he can pronounce it and use it correctly. I believe the words of Ghandi - "Be the change you wish to see in the world" wub.gifyes.gif .

On a lighter side note:

Walken, you could be the first person to jump off the parliament building with a chicken taped to your head laugh.gif . Of course, there would be trained professionals by your side wink2.gif . ~KIDS~ That was just a joke. WARNING ! NEVER TRY THAT AT HOME no.gif

And Walken, don't hit me with your giant frying pan, its best suited for frying big fish w00t.gif

Seriously, I thank you for the experience of this debate, it was my first and you have bragging rights of being my first...debating opponent wub.gif

P.S. Can I still be Miss World cool.gif

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Great debate guys!

And I'll now throw this one to our fabulous judges! You both did great. thumbsup.gif

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Debator 1: Walken

Relevancy: 9

Countering: 8

Style: 6

Persuasiveness: 8

Total: 31

Debator 2: Me_Again

Relevancy:9

Countering: 8

Style: 8

Persuasiveness: 6

Total: 31

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Debator 1: Walken

Relevancy: 9

Countering: 8

Style: 7

Persuasiveness: 7

Total: 31

Debator 2: Me_Again

Relevancy:9

Countering: 8

Style: 9

Persuasiveness: 7

Total: 33

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This debate actually took me two days to read through but it was well worth it..Great job you two..

Debator1:Walken

Relevancy:10

Countering:10

Style:9

Persuasiveness:9

Total:38

Debator 2: Me_Again

Relevancy:10

Countering: 9

Style: 8

Persausiveness:7

Total:34

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And the scores are in!

Walken wins the debate with a score of 33.3;

Me_Again finishes with a score of 32.6.

You both did a really fantastic job. Congrats to you both! thumbsup.gif

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