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Mr Slayer

Jesus, son of God?

49 posts in this topic

Nah.

I don't think so. You see, in my opinion, at the time Jesus roamed the land there were plenty of religions, sects, cults, beliefs and gods.

With a reservation of sounding completely stupid, I would think the Monty Python Crew's version (Life of Brian) "of what happened", is more accurate than most people would allow themselves to believe.

I believe the Christian cult was one of many, many...they used Jesus' kind preachings in their own propaganda; a very nice management move.

They eradicated all competition, forged existing (and pretty obvious to any sane person) teachings and implemented them into "GODS commandments", laying their hands and totally claiming the goodness in what they preached.

(The fact that the commandmends are implying "thou shall NOT" more than "thou shall" shows the sadly threatening way of the religion).

That Christianity survived so long, and that they'd gone so far, is really hard to explain...

I think it could have something to do with emperor Nero, who proclaimed Christianity the new National religion in the early days AD...

Jesus' miracles are hard to prove. They are surely tales told later by his followers to make the religious techings more...divine. Together with a mixture of (actual) historical happenings in the Bible, they all make the Word of God look more genuine.

So, Jesus is not son of God. He is a mortal man, no more a God than you and me. He was used in propaganda (of control by fear... yes actually) created by men and written down by many more different men over ages in the book called Bible.

This is how I see things, but surely, people will not agree at all.

This is how I see the situation of things....

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Nah.

I don't think so. You see, in my opinion, at the time Jesus roamed the land there were plenty of religions, sects, cults, beliefs and gods.

With a reservation of sounding completely stupid, I would think the Monty Python Crew's version (Life of Brian) "of what happened", is more accurate than most people would allow themselves to believe.

I believe the Christian cult was one of many, many...they used Jesus'  kind preachings in their own propaganda; a very nice management move.

They eradicated all competition, forged existing (and pretty obvious to any sane person) teachings and implemented them into "GODS commandments", laying their hands and totally claiming the goodness in what they preached.

(The fact that the commandmends are implying "thou shall NOT" more than "thou shall" shows the sadly threatening way of the religion).

That Christianity survived so long, and that they'd gone so far, is really hard to explain...

I think it could have something to do with emperor Nero, who proclaimed Christianity the new National religion in the early days AD...

Jesus' miracles are hard to prove. They are surely tales told later by his followers to make the religious techings more...divine. Together with a mixture of (actual) historical happenings in the Bible, they all make the Word of God look more genuine.

So, Jesus is not son of God. He is a mortal man, no more a God than you and me. He was used in propaganda (of control by fear... yes actually) created by men and written down by many more different men over ages in the book called Bible.

This is how I see things, but surely, people will not agree at all. 

This is how I see the situation of things....

686122[/snapback]

What us a "son of God". A son of God is someone who obeys his heavenly Father, and thatis what Jesus did. And you can do it and I can do it and if we do, then we also become sons of God.

The character Jesus of the New Testament story, was such a person.

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Nah.

I don't think so. You see, in my opinion, at the time Jesus roamed the land there were plenty of religions, sects, cults, beliefs and gods.

With a reservation of sounding completely stupid, I would think the Monty Python Crew's version (Life of Brian) "of what happened", is more accurate than most people would allow themselves to believe.

I believe the Christian cult was one of many, many...they used Jesus'  kind preachings in their own propaganda; a very nice management move.

They eradicated all competition, forged existing (and pretty obvious to any sane person) teachings and implemented them into "GODS commandments", laying their hands and totally claiming the goodness in what they preached.

(The fact that the commandmends are implying "thou shall NOT" more than "thou shall" shows the sadly threatening way of the religion).

That Christianity survived so long, and that they'd gone so far, is really hard to explain...

I think it could have something to do with emperor Nero, who proclaimed Christianity the new National religion in the early days AD...

Jesus' miracles are hard to prove. They are surely tales told later by his followers to make the religious techings more...divine. Together with a mixture of (actual) historical happenings in the Bible, they all make the Word of God look more genuine.

So, Jesus is not son of God. He is a mortal man, no more a God than you and me. He was used in propaganda (of control by fear... yes actually) created by men and written down by many more different men over ages in the book called Bible.

This is how I see things, but surely, people will not agree at all. 

This is how I see the situation of things....

686122[/snapback]

I certainly respect your view but you do little to prove your theory.

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I can't see that he is, too much was stolen from older religions: Virgin Birth, Shepherds Adulation, Visit of the Wise Men, Slaughter of the Innocents, Baptism, Crucifixion, Resurrection, Descent into Hell, Ascent into Heavan, the Trinity, The Holy Ghost! All done by Mithra, Osiris, Krishna, Erakles, etc long before Jesus supposedly lived (many predating Judaism). The evil perpetrated by the Christian religion through out the past 1700 years is staggering and no God with any cajones would allow his name to be attached to such!

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The evil perpetrated by the Christian religion through out the past 1700 years is staggering and no God with any cajones would allow his name to be attached to such!

Jesus was NOT Christian he was Jewish! I also wonder if God has cajones lol. God gave us free will and allows us to use it. Jesus too had free will and chose to follow God's will even to his death! Jesus was our savior and example. Our free will is both our blessing and our curse!

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Posted (edited)

Jesus was NOT Christian he was Jewish!

Don't recall saying he was a Christian (especially since this title was not used until late 2nd century AD).

  Jesus was our savior and example

Oh, we are supposed to throw a hissyfit when a fruit tree doesn't produce fruit out of season, we are supposed to ignore people because they aren't Jewish (Samarian Woman, Roman Centurion) until forced to, we are supposed to cause rifts between brothers and fathers and sons - woooo what an example! As usual, you ignored addressing the part that you couldn't justify, and only gave us a small part of the posting! How can a religion that stole so much from older religions be the "Truth and the Way"? Stealing is stealing!

Edited by Lamont Cranston

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I can't see that he is, too much was stolen from older religions: Virgin Birth, Shepherds Adulation, Visit of the Wise Men, Slaughter of the Innocents, Baptism, Crucifixion, Resurrection, Descent into Hell, Ascent into Heavan, the Trinity, The Holy Ghost!  All done by Mithra, Osiris, Krishna, Erakles, etc long before Jesus supposedly lived (many predating Judaism).  The evil perpetrated by the Christian religion through out the past 1700 years is staggering and no God with any cajones would allow his name to be attached to such!

686185[/snapback]

LOL of course He would and has since mankind first conceived of Him.

But Jesus did say THIS to those who would use His name for such treachery and deceit.

Matthew 7:21-23 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

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Jesus was NOT Christian he was Jewish!

Don't recall saying he was a Christian (especially since this title was not used until late 2nd century AD).

  Jesus was our savior and example

Oh, we are supposed to throw a hissyfit when a fruit tree doesn't produce fruit out of season, we are supposed to ignore people because they aren't Jewish (Samarian Woman, Roman Centurion) until forced to, we are supposed to cause rifts between brothers and fathers and sons - woooo what an example! As usual, you ignored addressing the part that you couldn't justify, and only gave us a small part of the posting! How can a religion that stole so much from older religions be the "Truth and the Way"? Stealing is stealing!

686200[/snapback]

No we are suppose to throw a hissy fit when a Teacher uses a tree by the side of the road for an object lesson to show His students what happens to a tree that does not bear fruit. How it becomes useless. If you don't lose it you lose it. Muscles atrophy. We must try to understand the concepts behind the stories.

I remember Jesus talking to the woman at the well and saving the life of the woman caught in adultery, and I wont even mention Mary Magdelen(sp?) and you dare question Jesus attitude when it comes to women.

And certainly there will be a rift between the Ku Klux Klan father and his son when Jesus convinces that son to love Blacks and Jews and Pagans as well as WASP's.

WOOOO INDEED WHAT AN EXAMPLE! Thank you Jesus !

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Posted (edited)

LOL of course He would and has since mankind first conceived of Him.

so you admit that mankind made Jeus up!

But Jesus did say THIS to those who would use His name for such treachery and deceit.

How do you know what he said? With the exception of Paul's letters (which never quote Jesus at all) none of the other books of the NT were written within a century of his (supposed) death and none were written by witnesses (the names of the authors were finally assigned in 189 AD and they book were mentioned in 150 AD), so there is no way of knowing what he actually said and what was added by the authors and subsequent scribes and editors! Give secular evidence of what he said and even his existence! Show where it says that he was giving an object lesson and not throwing a hissy fit. What about the Centurion, we know Jesus stand on women, he was after all a Jew, obeying Jewish laws - Jews held women to be chattle just like cattle! Hee hee, good try, but you forgot about the directive to buy a sword, even if it meant selling your coat! As I said, some example!

Edited by Lamont Cranston
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LOL of course He would and has since mankind first conceived of Him.

so you admit that mankind made Jeus up!

But Jesus did say THIS to those who would use His name for such treachery and deceit.

How do you know what he said? With the exception of Paul's letters (which never quote Jesus at all) none of the other books of the NT were written within a century of his (supposed) death and none were written by witnesses (the names of the authors were finally assigned in 189 AD and they book were mentioned in 150 AD), so there is no way of knowing what he actually said and what was added by the authors and subsequent scribes and editors! Give secular evidence of what he said and even his existence! Show where it says that he was giving an object lesson and not throwing a hissy fit. What about the Centurion, we know Jesus stand on women, he was after all a Jew, obeying Jewish laws - Jews held women to be chattle just like cattle! Hee hee, good try, but you forgot about the directive to buy a sword, even if it meant selling your coat! As I said, some example!

686219[/snapback]

First of all we are talking about Jesus the character known by that name in the story called The New Testament. Whether or not that character existed historically. I know he said this because it is written in the book and I have quoted chapter and verse for you.

Second The Spirit of Christ has said it to me personally in my heart. Please try to understand this conceptually not interpretting heart as the biological organ that pumps blood, but as the soul of ones mind and belief system.

34Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me."

35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"

"Nothing," they answered.

36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."

"That is enough," he replied.

Did you ever stop for even a millisecond to consider why they needed a sword and why only 2 would be enough?

Jesus was about to be betrayed, but he needed enough time to pray. He asked his disciples to stand guard while He did.

After Jesus had finished praying and they came to arrest Jesus Peter drew his sword and cut of the ear of the centurion. Jesus told Peter to put his sword away and Jesus touched and HEALED the ear of the centurion and went willingly to His death.

It is not surprising when people quote tiny snippets from the bible to try and discredit it. Because taken in context, those snippets are not so discredditing at all. But for those who would deliberately distort or try to hide the context of those words it is a very telling comment on their own credibility.

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I certainly respect your view but you do little to prove your theory.

Er...first of all, these are my opinions, I'm not saying that things are this way. Second, it is impossible to prove something like that. But that's the sweetness of it;

people take their heavenly Father for granted. And as follows, they take everything else in that direction for granted as well. It's called a paradigm. Or a dominoeffect. Call it what you will.

The forgery of our history is not a modern thing (="the history is written by the victorious"), but started long ago. Without questioning it, even the slightest, the masses will continue to Trust and Obey. The ones that physically and mentally control us feed on our mistrust toward each other.

And-

How do I know that there is no God...? I don't, but equally, how do you prove his existence? The Bible? "The Bible says so..."

Come on....

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At the very least, this should be moved to the Spirituality vs. Skepticism board. That's if a MOD doesn't decide to just close it.

That said, you are entitled to your opinion, but to me, Jesus was (is) the Son of God. He was (is) one part of the trinity. He died for our sins. He is the only way to God.

I can't say more without going against the rules of this forum.

All the best,

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What..? I really don't mind if they move it. But, BFG, why would they close it down?

And what do you mean by "you can't say more without going against the rules of this forum"? I'm really interested..!

"He IS son of God" "He died for our sins?"? How do you know that?

See, that was a part of my point here actually. Some people are so SURE about the current worldview. They live in this paradigm, and cannot question it at all.

Most important of all, they are ready to "break the rules", apparently... to show how shocked and angry they are towards those who "dare" to question something as inbred into our minds as God.

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What..? I really don't mind if they move it. But, BFG, why would they close it down?

( no call for it yet)

And what do you mean by "you can't say more without going against the rules of this forum"? I'm really interested..!

"He IS son of God" "He died for our sins?"? How do you know that? (How do you know he is not? Neither side can provide proof its a matter of faith)

See, that was a part of my point here actually. Some people are so SURE about the current worldview. They live in this paradigm, and cannot question it at all. (World view! keywords here)

Most important of all, they are ready to "break the rules", apparently... to show how shocked and angry they are towards those who "dare" to question something as inbred into our minds as God.

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Hey Panther!

Listen BFG, I REALLY would like to hear what you REALLY wanted to say. Because, all I can figure out from your last post is some kind of a threat.

But I might read it wrong.

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Well, religion is a touchy subject, which is what I think BFG was trying to say.

Anyways, yes, Jesus was a mortal man, hence him being able to die. Just like you or me. What sets him apart from alot of people is he was able to follow what he believed in to a T and was willing to die to gruesomely for his beliefs and not try and sway his innocence.

And that is all I am going to say on the subject at the moment.

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I don't think jesus was the son of god, but we will not truthfuly know untill we can get some proof... No offence to anybody who believes the bible but i don't.

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Well, religion is a touchy subject, which is what I think BFG was trying to say.

Anyways, yes, Jesus was a mortal man, hence him being able to die.  Just like you or me.  What sets him apart from alot of people is he was able to follow what he believed in to a T and was willing to die to gruesomely for his beliefs and not try and sway his innocence.

And that is all I am going to say on the subject at the moment.

686389[/snapback]

Good answer

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I don't believe jesus was the son of god. But then I don't believe there is a god either. What I do believe is that jesus was a very good con man, I mean he got millions of people to worship him.

I do not mean to offend anyones beliefs, its just what I think.

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Hey Panther!

Listen BFG, I REALLY would like to hear what you REALLY wanted to say. Because, all I can figure out from your last post is some kind of a threat.

But I might read it wrong.

686370[/snapback]

WELL CHECK THIS OUT.......

THIS COMES OUT OF CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS:

JEHOVA'S WITNESS'S BELIEVE JESUS IS MERELY A PROPHET AND NOT THE SON OF GOD.

MORMONS BELIEVE JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE HE WAS GOD-LIKE AND THAT JESUS IS NOT ACTUALLY GOD HIMSELF.

CHRISTIANS LIKE CATHOLICS BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND THAT HE IS GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HE ALSO.....THIS IS THE TRINITY.

PERSONALY I FIND ALL OF THIS TO BE MIND BOGGLING CONSIDERING THAT ALL OF THESE DENOMINATIONS READ THE SAME BIBLE. IT APPEARS TO ME THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HAVING AN IDENTITY CRISIS. MIND YOU THO, I AM NOT BASHING CHRISTIANS. :-)

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I certainly respect your view but you do little to prove your theory.

Er...first of all, these are my opinions, I'm not saying that things are this way. Second, it is impossible to prove something like that. But that's the sweetness of it;

people take their heavenly Father for granted. And as follows, they take everything else in that direction for granted as well. It's called a paradigm. Or a dominoeffect. Call it what you will.

The forgery of our history is not a modern thing (="the history is written by the victorious"), but started long ago. Without questioning it, even the slightest, the masses will continue to Trust and Obey. The ones that physically and mentally control us feed on our mistrust toward each other.

And-

How do I know that there is no God...? I don't, but equally, how do you prove his existence? The Bible? "The Bible says so..."

Come on....

686242[/snapback]

The bible is just a book full of explanations that any one of us would like to know the answer to.

The origin of the world , the universe, who is our creator, where did we come from and why are we here.

And where did this idea of good and evil come from. Why do some people harm other people. Who really is right and who is wrong?, well of course God is on our side not theirs.

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Hey Panther!

Listen BFG, I REALLY would like to hear what you REALLY wanted to say. Because, all I can figure out from your last post is some kind of a threat.

But I might read it wrong.

686370[/snapback]

WELL CHECK THIS OUT.......

THIS COMES OUT OF CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS:

JEHOVA'S WITNESS'S BELIEVE JESUS IS MERELY A PROPHET AND NOT THE SON OF GOD.

MORMONS BELIEVE JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE HE WAS GOD-LIKE AND THAT JESUS IS NOT ACTUALLY GOD HIMSELF.

CHRISTIANS LIKE CATHOLICS BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND THAT HE IS GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HE ALSO.....THIS IS THE TRINITY.

PERSONALY I FIND ALL OF THIS TO BE MIND BOGGLING CONSIDERING THAT ALL OF THESE DENOMINATIONS READ THE SAME BIBLE. IT APPEARS TO ME THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HAVING AN IDENTITY CRISIS. MIND YOU THO, I AM NOT BASHING CHRISTIANS. :-)

686622[/snapback]

What did Jesus say to those who did evil? You are children of your father the devil.

Who is our Father? Our father is the one we obey and respect. The one who teaches us what to do.

If we do good then GOD is our father. If we do evil the DEVIL is our father.

Jesus did good He is a son of God. If we do good we can also be the sons of God.

But how many of us know what the right thing to do is, but we do the wrong thing because of parent, or peer, or social, or legal or financial pressures. Or we do the wrong thing because we are afraid if we do the right thing we will look stupid, or weak, or we will not get what we want. There are so many reasons to do the wrong thing. So if what we believe is good causes us problems will we obey God and do it anyway or will we yeild to the temptation to do the wrong thing for personal gain?

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this first part is a bit off topic:

Lamont, where did you pull that absurd statement about the dates of the books NT from, Achayra S? a century after Jesus' death? do you know what p 52 is?

I think it could have something to do with emperor Nero, who proclaimed Christianity the new National religion in the early days AD...
i think you may be confusing Nero with someone else. Theodosius I made Christianity the official religion of the empire in the late 4th century.

Here is a sample of how Nero dealt with Christians, from Tacitus' Annals book 15.

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

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Posted (edited)

Hey Panther!

Listen BFG, I REALLY would like to hear what you REALLY wanted to say. Because, all I can figure out from your last post is some kind of a threat.

But I might read it wrong.

686370[/snapback]

What I really wanted to say? It was more of a refutation to previous comments. But that's not what this section is about. This section is for people to share their ideas without people trying to disprove them. I said it would probably be moved because of people's attack on other people's belief.

btw, it wasn't a threat. I just wanted to weigh in to the argument but couldn't attack others' statements without violating the rules.

Oh, we are supposed to throw a hissyfit when a fruit tree doesn't produce fruit out of season, we are supposed to ignore people because they aren't Jewish (Samarian Woman, Roman Centurion) until forced to, we are supposed to cause rifts between brothers and fathers and sons - woooo what an example!  As usual, you ignored addressing the part that you couldn't justify, and only gave us a small part of the posting!  How can a religion that stole so much from older religions be the "Truth and the Way"?  Stealing is stealing!

686200[/snapback]

And-

How do I know that there is no God...? I don't, but equally, how do you prove his existence? The Bible? "The Bible says so..."

Come on....

686242[/snapback]

Comments like these invite nothing but argument. They should be left in the Spirituality vs. Skepticism board.

Edited by BFG

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I'm not attacking beliefs. I'm trying to put things in another perspective.

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