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Blackleaf

British Eurofighter outsmarts two US F-15's.

22 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

EDIT link removed

From The Scotsman -

Eurofighter a shooting star in clash with US jets

MURDO MACLEOD

POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

IT might be over budget and years late but the Eurofighter Typhoon has shown that it can shake off America's best fighter plane and shoot it down.

A chance encounter over the Lake District between a Eurofighter trainer and two F-15 aircraft turned into a mock dogfight, with the British plane coming off best - much to the surprise of some in the RAF. The episode was hushed up for fear of causing US blushes.

For a project 10 years late and $8bn over budget, it is a welcome piece of good news.

The 'clash' took place last year over Windermere when the two-seater RAF Eurofighter was 'bounced' from behind by the two F-15E fighters.

The US pilots intended to pursue the supposedly hapless 'Limey' for several miles and lock their radars on to it for long enough so that if it had been a real dogfight the British jet would have been shot down.

But much to the Americans' surprise, the Eurofighter shook them off, outmanoeuvred them and moved into shooting positions on their tails.

The British pilots themselves were almost as surprised at winning an encounter with an aircraft widely regarded as the best fighter in the world.

scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com . . .

Edited by Thistle

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Does that mean the Eurofighter is a superior plane, British pilots are superior to American pilots, or both?

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Posted (edited)

Well i personally think that the Eurofighter is a much newer and better plane. I really don't know if British pilots are trained better the American pilots

Though you must remember the USAF is starting to phase out the old F-15 for the F-22.

Edited by Deception

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Well i personally think that the Eurofighter is a much newer and better plane. I really don't know if British pilots are trained better the American pilots

Though you must remember the USAF is starting to phase out the old F-15 for the F-22.

688099[/snapback]

I wouldn't be surprised if British pilots are better trained than American pilots.

Just look at British soldiers. Our part-time soldiers (the Territorials) are better trained than American FULL TIME soldiers.

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Now imagine after Israel joins the EU, and IDF with all it's might and sophistication is combined with the other European militaries into a Euro NATO like alliance, that Israeli pilots would fly those Eurofighters.... with 200:11 to Israel in IAF vs. USAF drills when the IAF uses American planes, imagine what the scores would be like after such union... wink2.gif

Unite the RAF and IAF now! tongue.gif

j/k

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Posted (edited)

And then if the US decides to stop selling you Apache helicopters, missiles and other weapons, you'll be a third-rate military power.

You are only powerful because you have the US to look after you with US-supplied weapons.

Also, Israel isn't even in Europe. I don't even know why it competes in the Eurovision Song Contest, the European Championship qualifiers and plays European teams for World Cup qualifiers.

Edited by Blackleaf

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But did yall read the part where it said

The US pilots intended to pursue the supposedly hapless 'Limey' for several miles and lock their radars on to it for long enough so that if it had been a real dogfight the British jet would have been shot down.

Because i didn't.(yea i know. Read the Entire post before you post) Though i still would put my money on the Eurofighter in a close range dogfight. Not in a long range encounter where the planes never even see each other.

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As was pointed out before, let us not forget we are comparing 30+ year old tech vs brand new tech. crying.gifcrying.gif

I wonder what the results would have been if it was 2 raptors on his tail. unsure.gifunsure.gif

I am not putting down the Euro-fighter, I just think the F-22 is better, and be a nationalistic American has nothing to do with it. innocent.gifinnocent.gif

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The British pilots themselves were almost as surprised at winning an encounter with an aircraft widely regarded as the best fighter in the world.

I always thought the MiG was considered better. At least on the bright side the british are our allies. laugh.gif

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And then if the US decides to stop selling you Apache helicopters, missiles and other weapons, you'll be a third-rate military power.

You are only powerful because you have the US to look after you with US-supplied weapons.

Also, Israel isn't even in Europe.  I don't even know why it competes in the Eurovision Song Contest, the European Championship qualifiers and plays European teams for World Cup qualifiers.

688133[/snapback]

A. untill 1973, we won all our wars without US aid whatsoever.

That's about 50% of the wars we fought. Our airforce and pilots were better than the british ones even during our independence war, when we scored 0:5.

B. Israel might not be in Europe, but culturally and economically it's European. Our legal system and political system are European. The two main sub-ethnic groups of Jews - Ashkenazim and Sephardim - lived in Europe for the last 2,500 years untill brutally forced out of the continent 60 years ago (mind you, 2,500 years ago the Slavs were still in Asia, the Hungarians were bunch of mongol hordes in central Asia, and the Germanic tribes were stil in Western Asia-Eastern Europe).

Also, Ashkenazim spoke Germanic language - Yiddish - which is undoubtly European, and Sephardim spoke Ladino - a dialect of Spanish - another European language.

I'm myself a descendant of a Russian Jew and Romanian Jew. My father was born in Russia, and my mother in Romanian. My father's forefathers came from Ukraine, their forefathers from Lithuania, and their forefathers from Poland. My mother's ancestors came from Spain and Poland.

I myself, thus, have ancestors from about 6 different European countries, that the only thing that unites them is their Europeaness. In this sense, I think I'm the most pan-European person on this forum tongue.gif. My bloodline is cross-european, from the western-most (Spain) corner to the eastern-most (Russia, Ukraine), down to one of the southern most (Romania).

My grandmother from my father's side, for example, (my she rest in peace), could speak 4 different languages, showing the complexity and cross-europeaness of the Jews in Europe - Yiddish, Ukrainian, Russian and later on Hebrew.

So claiming Israel has nothing to do with Europe is not only wrong and base-less, but also extremely rude - the Europeans have kicked us from their continent, and now they claim we have no ties to that continent, even though we lived there in many cases long before the modern ethnicities of Europe arrived there.

I myself am liable for an EU citizenship, for example, and there's nothing special about me in this case.

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And if geography is an issue - last time I checked, Cyprus was a Western Asian Island, and Malta was a North African archipelague.

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Oh wait Blackleaf, what's that - someone has beaten the Eurofighters two years ago! ohmy.gif

The following is a report that reveals some of the skills of the IAF pilots:

    Sep. 22, 2003 | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    "Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.

The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar margins, the officials added.

    Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing its own locally made systems into the aircraft.

Someone is better than something British? no way!

tongue.gif

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And if geography is an issue - last time I checked, Cyprus was a Western Asian Island, and Malta was a North African archipelague.

688174[/snapback]

Cyprus is right near to Greece, and Malta is off the Southern coast of Italy.

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Israel is dependant on the US.

Israel has received $100 billion in aid from the US since 1948. Every year, US taxpayers give Israel $5 billion in open and hidden aid. Egypt is paid $2 billion annually not to confront Israel. Half of all US foreign aid goes to Israel and Egypt. Israel's military is dependant on US equipment and technology.

Only the oft-used US veto prevents Israel from facing UN sanctions over its refusal to withdraw form the West Bank and the Old City.

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And if geography is an issue - last time I checked, Cyprus was a Western Asian Island, and Malta was a North African archipelague.

688174[/snapback]

Cyprus is right near to Greece, and Malta is off the Southern coast of Italy.

688232[/snapback]

Better check your georgraphy, "mate".

Cyprus' western most border is even more to the east and to the south than Turkey is.

Cyprus is only European because of it's culture, just like Israel.

As a matter of fact, I can take a flight to Cyprus right now and be there in half an hour - about the same time it'll take me to reach Israel's southern most city - Eilat.

Malta is really close to North Africa as well - and it's official language is a Semitic one (the only thing "european" about it is that most of the population adhere Catholicism... but then again Christianity originated from the Middle East, and was created by Jews...).

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What every American needs to know.

The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO’s.

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none.

No Israelis are being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 8,043 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000.

The Israeli unemployment rate is 10.4%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 37-67%.

60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements.

www.ifamericansknew.org

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Israel is dependant on the US.

Israel has received  $100 billion in aid from the US since 1948.  Every year, US taxpayers give Israel $5 billion in open and hidden aid. Egypt is paid $2 billion annually not to confront Israel.  Half of all US foreign aid goes to Israel and Egypt.  Israel's military is dependant on US equipment and technology.

How does this contradict anything I said here?

Let's see - 100 divide in 5... that's 20 years, which fits pretty well into the time frame I was talking about. We won most of our wars without the Americans, thank you very much.

Only the oft-used US veto prevents Israel from facing UN sanctions over its refusal to withdraw form the West Bank and the Old City.

688240[/snapback]

More lies.... Israel cannot face UN sanctions because, as opposed to Iraq or Yugoslavia, none of the resolutions passed in regarding to the Israeli-Arab\Palestinian conflict were binding, thus no sanctions could be used.

Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 6 of the security council. Learn a bit about world diplomacy before you spit baseless accusations.

Also, Israel's "withdrawal" cannot be agreed upon because the UN itself says "territories" and not "the territories" gained in 1967. Hence Israel is advised to withdraw from some territories, but not all of them. This is logically as well, because the Arab countries used the pre-1967 cease fire lines (not international borders) as an astrategic way to invade Israel in 1967.

And last but not least, the "territories" do not belong to no one - cause no country ever annexed them and was recognized by the international community. Well, maybe the Ottomans could claim ownership tongue.gif (which is why many of the Ottoman rules stil apply for the territories to these days).

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Let's have a closer look at those 65 UN resolutions against Israel, shall we?

We'll have a bit of a lesson.

-------

"Aside from the core issues—refugees, Jerusalem, borders—the major themes reflected in the U.N. resolutions against Israel over the years are its unlawful attacks on its neighbors; its violations of the human rights of the Palestinians, including deportations, demolitions of homes and other collective punishments; its confiscation of Palestinian land; its establishment of illegal settlements; and its refusal to abide by the U.N. Charter and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War."

- Donald Neff

UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992

Resolution 106: "...‘condemns’ Israel for Gaza raid"

Resolution 111: "...‘condemns’ Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"

Resolution 127: "...‘recommends’ Israel suspend its ‘no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem"

Resolution 162: "...‘urges’ Israel to comply with UN decisions"

Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations’ by Israel in its attack on Syria"

Resolution 228: "...‘censures’ Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"

Resolution 237: "...‘urges’ Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"

Resolution 248: "...‘condemns’ Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"

Resolution 250: "...‘calls’ on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"

Resolution 251: "...‘deeply deplores’ Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"

Resolution 252: "...‘declares invalid’ Israel’s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"

Resolution 256: "...‘condemns’ Israeli raids on Jordan as ‘flagrant violation"

Resolution 259: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"

Resolution 262: "...‘condemns’ Israel for attack on Beirut airport"

Resolution 265: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"

Resolution 267: "...‘censures’ Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"

Resolution 270: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"

Resolution 271: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"

Resolution 279: "...‘demands’ withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"

Resolution 280: "....‘condemns’ Israeli’s attacks against Lebanon"

Resolution 285: "...‘demands’ immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"

Resolution 298: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem"

Resolution 313: "...‘demands’ that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"

Resolution 316: "...‘condemns’ Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"

Resolution 317: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"

Resolution 332: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon"

Resolution 337: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty"

Resolution 347: "...‘condemns’ Israeli attacks on Lebanon"

Resolution 425: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

Resolution 427: "...‘calls’ on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon’

Resolution 444: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"

Resolution 446: "...‘determines’ that Israeli settlements are a ‘serious obstruction’ to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

Resolution 450: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"

Resolution 452: "...‘calls’ on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"

Resolution 465: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel’s settlements program"

Resolution 467: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon"

Resolution 468: "...‘calls’ on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"

Resolution 469: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s failure to observe the council’s order not to deport Palestinians"

Resolution 471: "...‘expresses deep concern’ at Israel’s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

Resolution 476: "...‘reiterates’ that Israel’s claims to Jerusalem are ‘null and void’

Resolution 478: "...‘censures (Israel) in the strongest terms’ for its claim to Jerusalem in its ‘Basic Law’

Resolution 484: "...‘declares it imperative’ that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"

Resolution 487: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel for its attack on Iraq’s nuclear facility"

Resolution 497: "...‘decides’ that Israel’s annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights is ‘null and void’ and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"

Resolution 498: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"

Resolution 501: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"

Resolution 509: "...‘demands’ that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"

Resolution 515: "...‘demands’ that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"

Resolution 517: "...‘censures’ Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

Resolution 518: "...‘demands’ that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"

Resolution 520: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s attack into West Beirut"

Resolution 573: "...‘condemns’ Israel ‘vigorously’ for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters

Resolution 587: "...‘takes note’ of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"

Resolution 592: "...‘strongly deplores’ the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"

Resolution 605: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians

Resolution 607: "...‘calls’ on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

Resolution 608: "...‘deeply regrets’ that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"

Resolution 636: "...‘deeply regrets’ Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians

Resolution 641: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians

Resolution 672: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount

Resolution 673: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations

Resolution 681: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians

Resolution 694: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return

Resolution 726: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians

Resolution 799: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

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What every American needs to know.

The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO’s.

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none.

No Israelis are being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 8,043 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000.

The Israeli unemployment rate is 10.4%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 37-67%.

60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements.

www.ifamericansknew.org

688276[/snapback]

Let's see....

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none.

100% of those resolutions has been passed by muslim or soviet lobby... and guess what? 100% of them are NONE binding!

Ofcourse the Palestinians haven't been targeted by any UN resolutions - they are not a members of the UN tongue.gif.

No Israelis are being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 8,043 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.

Yes... cause Israeli prisoners, just as Biritish and American prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan these days, tend to have a very short life time in the hands of their captives... usually 10 days, if they are luck - 10 mins disgust.gif.

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000.

70% were 50 year old houses, empty from any dwellers and on the verge of collapse, while the remaining 30% have been destroyed to give terrorists hard time to hide and to teach them that terrorism doesn't pay.

The Israeli unemployment rate is 10.4%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 37-67%.

That's because of the terror campaign they've started... all the rest of the emplyed Palestinians work in Israel. Before the terror campaign against Israel which started on September 29, 2000, the unemployment rates were much lower - around 10.4%.

60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements.

"Jewish only"... lol... do you know that the settelments sit on only 2% of the disputed territories? the only reason they would have to be evacuated is that the Palestinians don't want Jews in their future country. And if they see one - he'll be hanged or shot down.

It has been like that since 1929...

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Blackleaf, all your arguments are based on lies and cheap demagogue.

You have proved in other threads to be a nationalistic racist.

Not only you bashed France for the last 2 months, and most of the other European countries, including member states of the UK, you now turn on my country.

Do you know no boundries?

Your backwarded racism and superiority-complex are not welcomed here no.gif.

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has this not gone off topic fairly dramatically?

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Posted (edited)

As this thread has veered so drastically from topic I'm closing it.

Blackleaf, I will ask once more.......stop derailing threads just so you may insult other countries. Warnings will be issued from now on.

Thistle

Edited by Thistle

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