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Sherapy

Original Sin Or Original Blessing?

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Is the human race inherently good or inherently evil? If we were at a fork in the road devil.gif and the future of the human race depended on it which way would you go????

For those that believe in original sin and that the nature of man is inherently evil and state that God has created laws which keep us from doing what we want and have human laws (lots of them) that attempt to do the same,

For those that believe that the inherent nature of man is good, state that God has created natural laws which allow us to do as we wish and would make laws that do the same ,

What is your perspective onf the human race? What is your viewpoint of yourself? Do you see yourself as being able to be trusted? In everything? How about other people? Until you get to know them one way or another what do you basically assume??

Are you courageous enought to answer?????

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Posted (edited)

i believe we are inherenty neither. i believe we are neutral, that it is how our life plays out that molds how we act. i know selfless and giving people, just as i know those that would make war with a brother over small things. humanity has done great and horrible things.

Edited by Ciraxis

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Is the human race inherently good or inherently evil?
What one person might call good another might call evil/bad. So who is to say what good or evil is?

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what is your belief sheri? since no one else cares to discuss

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That's a tough one. The ol' nature or nurture question. huh.gif

I personally think people are more prone to be bad until they experience the pain and suffering they cause to others themselves. It sometimes has a lot to do with youth and inexperience. Realization usually comes later in life when a person gains wisdom and looks back at all they have done. Some earlier than others; and sadly some not at all. When you really know what you have done and how it must have hurt or hopefully helped other people, then you should start to practice compassion in your life.

That is what is wrong with the human race. People have always been cruel to one another throughout history. One reason is we are too preoccupied with teaching our young people about material pursuits; by example mostly. We need to include teaching empathy classes starting all the way back to the first grade. The media makes people these days have a twisted outlook on social behavior. They will mock people that are nice and trying to be good in life. So there is a kind of peer pressure that is being projected by the media. When someone is still at a gullible age they can be easily influenced by what they see and hear through the media. Also many adults now are behaving like they never grew up in life and that adds to the problem.

Anyway my 2 cents

I feel I am trustworthy, I guess most would say that of themselves. But I had my times in life where I was only thinking of myself and I am not proud of the things I did. But I can say now that I have become a much better person by paying attention to my actions and making sure I don't affect others negatively.

I see others as kind of out for their own gain. I don't usually trust others without a little proof of their character first. And I expect them to treat me the same.

Sorry so long and drawn out here.

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There must be a sane combination of good and evil. If we never experience evil how do we know what good is?

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Moral absolutism is foolish in my opinion. Nobody ever sets out to actively "Be Evil" just for the hell of it. Neither are we born doing "Good deeds"..

We are completely neutral until our environment affects us positively or negatively enough that we polarize towards one direction or another..

Therefore we can't inherantly be anything, unless it's Neutral, as has already been stated..

Even labeling things as good or evil may be a mistake. If you actually believe in the bible then you'll see even the Devil occasionally has a good side, and even God has behaved in a less than perfect manner..If the very icons that are supposed to symbolize Good and Evil fall short of thier ideal, then how can we really say anything is Good or Evil?

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Is the human race inherently good or inherently evil?  If we were at a fork in the road devil.gif  and the future of the human race depended on it  which way would you go????

For those that believe in original sin and that the nature of man is inherently evil and state that God has created laws which keep us from doing what we want and have human laws  (lots of them) that attempt  to do the same,

For those that believe that the inherent nature of man is good, state that God has created natural laws which allow us to do as we wish and would make laws that do the same ,

What is your perspective onf the human race? What is your viewpoint of yourself? Do you see yourself as being able to be trusted? In everything?  How about other people?  Until you get to know them one way or another what do you basically assume??

Are you courageous enought to answer?????

692176[/snapback]

According to my personal perception of what the original sin is, it is definately NOT a blessing.

Eating from the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil to me means the first time man JUDGED what was evil. It has resulted in all kinds of mans inhumanity to man based on his judgement that the other person is evil and should be punished for it.

We know what is right based on the Golden Rule .. God tells us do what is right.

But we make all kinds of excuses to prove that we really should do what we know is wrong. That we are somehow justified in being cruel to someone else because we have JUDGED that they deserve it.

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Interesting topic.... And interesting answers so far.

Something I feel has been neglected though is that the question is speaking of our "inherent" nature - the nature we were born with.

For this we must look at a child. Children are beautiful, cute, cuddly, funny, insightful, curious among many other traits, but you cannot deny that they are also extremely selfish - if you don't believe me, deny a young kid a chocolate at the shops when they ask for one, or take a baby's rattle from them, and see what happens.... Does the word tantrum mean anything to you guys?

Through experience and training, we can learn to suppress this look out for others other than ourselves. Indeed we must learn these things in order to improve our society. We can learn to be good people (substitute "good" with "productive" if you do not agree with such dualistic thought).

But there is no doubt in my mind that we are inherently selfish. We are inherently evil.

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Original sin according to the bible has a very weighted meaning that can become a discourse in theology. Proof to me that it exist is simply that every child will eventually sin and know they are getting away with something that is clearly wrong. Not all wrong things are sins though. This is the meaning of inheriting sin and it being part of our flesh in the biblical sense. We cannot escape it and will always be tempted and thus were born into sin and with guilt. From the moment of reason every person here will have done something they consider a sin, if they consider sin at all that is...

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what is your belief  sheri?  since no one else cares to discuss

692425[/snapback]

I have to start by saying thankyou to everyone who has answered this is awesome looking at this in such unique ways, I believe in the inherent goodness of people, I believe we are born good I think the answer of that question contributes to mankind in a big way, I have kids and I have raised them that they are inherently good and thus its natural and easy to be good (God made us that way) Now not to say that we can't make mistakes because thats a large part of learning , but some of the mistakes I see in our beautiful universe could be remedied if we changed our core beliefs, I also think we need people like me to hold on to that belief. See hope where often its hard to see, I also agree with Boris the Spider and Gods Messenger view also you added a flavor I hadn't looked at, I also can see the Neutral position as being valid also . I think thoughts that are thunk enough become beliefs that eventually determines behavior, Its appears to me that alot of things that are huge problems today are how we beleive as a collective conciousness If we explored that would that make a difference??????

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Original sin according to the bible has a very weighted meaning that can become a discourse in theology. Proof to me that it exist is simply that every child will eventually sin and know they are getting away with something that is clearly wrong. Not all wrong things are sins though. This is the meaning of inheriting sin and it being part of our flesh in the biblical sense. We cannot escape it and will always be tempted and thus were born into sin and with guilt. From the moment of reason every person here will have done something they consider a sin, if they consider sin at all that is...

693764[/snapback]

We don't "get away with" doing wrong EVER. Everytime we do wrong it becomes a part of us. A dirty little (or big) part of us.

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There must be a sane combination of good and evil. If we never experience evil how do we know what good is?

693012[/snapback]

I don't need to stab myself in the chest to know that is not a good thing to do. We do not need to "experience evil" to know it is not good.

This strikes home to me personally because recently a relative of mine was stabbed to death and the murderer said he did it because he "wanted to know how it felt like to stab someone."

And "evil" is intentual harm. If I am homeless because of a flood, I do not need evil to experience the good of people helping me just because they care and want to help me.

In fact if my life is just fine the way it is and someone offers me tickets to a concert to see my favorite entertainer, it did not take any evil for me to experience that kindness and goodness.

No we do NOT need evil to experience good IMHO.

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what is your belief  sheri?  since no one else cares to discuss

692425[/snapback]

I have to start by saying thankyou to everyone who has answered this is awesome looking at this in such unique ways, I believe in the inherent goodness of people, I believe we are born good I think the answer of that question contributes to mankind in a big way, I have kids and I have raised them that they are inherently good and thus its natural and easy to be good (God made us that way) Now not to say that we can't make mistakes because thats a large part of learning , but some of the mistakes I see in our beautiful universe could be remedied if we changed our core beliefs, I also think we need people like me to hold on to that belief. See hope where often its hard to see, I also agree with Boris the Spider and Gods Messenger view also you added a flavor I hadn't looked at, I also can see the Neutral position as being valid also . I think thoughts that are thunk enough become beliefs that eventually determines behavior, Its appears to me that alot of things that are huge problems today are how we beleive as a collective conciousness If we explored that would that make a difference??????

693990[/snapback]

You see they are NOT born that way. From the earliest age we teach them. Share your toys, Don't hit, Be polite!!

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There must be a sane combination of good and evil. If we never experience evil how do we know what good is?

693012[/snapback]

I don't need to stab myself in the chest to know that is not a good thing to do. We do not need to "experience evil" to know it is not good.

This strikes home to me personally because recently a relative of mine was stabbed to death and the murderer said he did it because he "wanted to know how it felt like to stab someone."

And "evil" is intentual harm. If I am homeless because of a flood, I do not need evil to experience the good of people helping me just because they care and want to help me.

In fact if my life is just fine the way it is and someone offers me tickets to a concert to see my favorite entertainer, it did not take any evil for me to experience that kindness and goodness.

No we do NOT need evil to experience good IMHO.

694864[/snapback]

My heart goes out to you over your relative I to experienced a similar situation All th best to you and your family, Namaste Sheri Berri

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Individually, I think human beings (on average that is) can be anywhere on the spectrum...we're capable of both great compassion, and great cruelty. With exact capacity for both varies from person to person but I'd say that a majority of people are "good"...or at the very least good enough not to bother anyone else.

As a species though, I'm afraid that the collective behavour of humans is some of the most barbaric and twisted in the animal kindgom.

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Individually, I think human beings (on average that is) can be anywhere on the spectrum...we're capable of both great compassion, and great cruelty. With exact capacity for both varies from person to person but I'd say that a majority of people are "good"...or at the very least good enough not to bother anyone else.

As a species though, I'm afraid that the collective behavour of humans is some of the most barbaric and twisted in the animal kindgom.

695457[/snapback]

Good answer, Sera

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If humans committed original sin, wouldn't that mean that the god that they had been created in the image of was however slightly impure? I do not mean to provoke anything other than thought (and I'm surely not satanist), but if angels were created from purity, why would they be dark, bestial reflections of their holy origin bent on destruction and fornication in the name of their leader. Why would this be true if all was born from a pure original being, or was conciousness just a big mistake in some scientific experiment, and fanatics try to mask the truth with the explanation that a snake made us do it. It is a bit childish to point the finger at a being created by a benign and loving, er... entity.

Don't any of you Christians find it a bit disturbing that conciousness and truth were just accidents, and that some sick being only made two original beings as the progenitors of humankind, limiting the gene pool by making us commit incest to further the species. Maybe that's why we as humans are so violent and unstable, killing each other.

Or, the original sin is all a scam to control the superstitious masses and make them bow to the will of the once all-powerful church.

Please respond in an intelligent manner, and DO NOT FLAME ME.

Disclaimer: sorry if I offended the christians out there.I'm Agnostic and proud, but I try to play as devil's advocate (a matter of speech, don't burn me at the stake) and bring a sharper view into focus.

~Morian Grey

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Morian Interesting viewpoint, You brought up some valid points, I myself don't subscribe to the whole vengeful God thing. I lean towards the God is all that is and God is all that is not Theory. :innoc devil.gif ent:

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If humans committed original sin, wouldn't that mean that the god that they had been created in the image of was however slightly impure? I do not mean to provoke anything other than thought (and I'm surely not satanist), but if angels were created from purity, why would they be dark, bestial reflections of their holy origin bent on destruction and fornication in the name of their leader. Why would this be true if all was born from a pure original being, or was conciousness just a big mistake in some scientific experiment, and fanatics try to mask the truth with the explanation that a snake made us do it. It is a bit childish to point the finger at a being created by a benign and loving, er... entity.

Don't any of you Christians find it a bit disturbing that conciousness and truth were just accidents, and that some sick being only made two original beings as the progenitors of humankind, limiting the gene pool by making us commit incest to further the species. Maybe that's why we as humans are so violent and unstable, killing each other.

Or, the original sin is all a scam to control the superstitious masses and make them bow to the will of the once all-powerful church.

Please respond in an intelligent manner, and DO NOT FLAME ME.

Disclaimer: sorry if I offended the christians out there.I'm Agnostic and proud, but I try to play as devil's advocate (a matter of speech, don't burn me at the stake) and bring a sharper view into focus.

~Morian Grey

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Interesting points you've raised. This isn't the Spirituality vs. Skepticism board, so I'm not supposed to argue the merits of your belief here, but my own personal belief is that we are created in God's image, thus God has the ability to do all the evil things that we do, but God is..... well, he's God. If he couldn't do these things, He wouldn't be all powerful. He chooses not to commit these things though. We as humans on the other hand, are only human and have flawed natures. We desire to live life our own way, and go against what God wants.

On a side note (I suppose to answer your post), consciousness and truth were never accidents. God has a plan and that plan is in fulfillment as we speak (err, write huh.gif ). As for Adam and Eve, it is conceivable God altered His own laws on incest in order to allow the people to spread enough to create a viable gene pool. Of course though, it is my belief that it is possible that the Genesis account of creation may not have necessarily happened (I'm not saying "did not", so don't make that assumption either). The writing style suggests that it is more poetry than fact - the point of the genesis account not being to show us HOW the world was created, but rather WHO was responsible for its creation, ie. God.

In the end we do not know for sure. As a believer I believe God is responsible, and that's just the way it is!

All the best,

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