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Saru

POLL : Have Aliens Ever Visited Earth ?

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One of the biggest questions in the world of the unexplained - are we being visited by an Intelligent Alien Race ? Here's your chance to vote for what you think.

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I'm very surprised on how low the votes are for "No, but they do exist".

Maybe this forum is less full of sceptics than i thought (or more likely they haven't bother voting yet  :D )

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I already voted previously, but didn't post a reply. But coincidently, I did vote for "no, but they do exist."  The extreme vastness of the universe is the argument I have for both parts of the answer.

My two cents

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My thoughts exactly Homer.

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I wouldn't mind hearing the points of view of some of those who voted that aliens have visited us, though...

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::) Well not me, I voted for no but they do exist.

I agree (i think) with you two that it should be interesting to find out other points of view.

have now put soapbox under the bed ;D

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I voted 'no but they do exist.'

8)

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I guess I must be one of the sceptics

:s2 :s2

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So nobody admits to thinking that they are here already?

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[blue]

I believe that aliens have been visiting our planet for millennia. There is such a breadth and wealth of information describing entities throughout the history of mankind to dismiss the possibility. Not everyone who says they have encountered or witnessed aliens is telling lies. Some will be mistaken, yes; some will be telling fibs, yes; some, by the law of averages, will be reporting actual alien contact.

I also believe that they are visiting our planet right up to the present day.

We have: biblical reports (Ezikiel), historical reports, prehistorical reports (cave paintings), military reports, modern reports (greys and abductions) and everything in between.

The argument that the distances are too vast does not hold water in my book. We don't know enough to say that it is not possible. It probably is but we're not clever enough to understand it yet.

[/blue]

:sg

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It isn't the vast distance that is the main problem, but the vast amount of universe over such vast distances. Finding another alien life form would be akin to find one particular grain of sand on a beach.

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[blue]

If most developed intelligent species produce as much radio noise or as much garbage and orbiting junk as we do, I doubt it would be that hard.

[/blue] ;D

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Hey, that reminds me, i'm sure i read somewhere recently an article on how far away the first radio transmissions would of got by now. Anybody got any ideas?

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It isn't the vast distance that is the main problem, but the vast amount of universe over such vast distances.
Good one PS ;D

I don't know how far the first radio transmissions have gone, but in astronomical terms it wouldn't have been that far. But as an estimate, radio waves travel at the speed of light, so however many years ago the first transmission was, is how many lightyears away it is now.

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are you sure radiowaves travel that fast? I must admit i don't know how fast they do travel, but i didn't think they moved that fast.

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Yes, radio waves travel at the speed of light.

Radio waves are cool 8)

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The rough estimate is approx. 80 light years (the article I will link to states that we have been broadcasting radio waves since the 1920's). Our own galaxy is approx. 100,000 light years in diameter, so you can imagine how insignificant that distance is in the greater scheme of things.

"The argument that the distances are too vast does not hold water in my book."

The argument holds an ocean of water in my book, considering the implications in that single, simple fact shown above. It is estimated that the Milky Way Galaxy contains between 200 to 250 billion stars. You can use the 'Drake' equation to theorize the number of intelligent species that possibly inhabit just our galaxy. Again, I stress the word 'theorize', because we obviously cannot say for sure how precise the equation really is, but it will give you an idea of the incredible distances involved when speculating about the probability of contact with an alien race. Click on the link below and scroll about a third of the way down the page to the "Calculating the Probability of Intelligent Life in the Milky Way Galaxy" heading.

CLICK HERE

Although it is only statistical data gleaned from an unproven theoretical formula, it is data that nonetheless suggests impossible distances between 'possible' intelligent species, no matter how advanced they may be. It may be true that we still have much to learn about ourselves and the universe in general, but there's nothing like the stark, cold reality of hard numbers to convince any one of the improbability of contact with any alien intelligence, now or in the past. The analogy would be very similar to trying to locate a specific grain of sand in a desert, it's that simple, and just as extraordinarily difficult.

Magikman  :sg

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[blue]If you were talking of using our current technology of a rocket strapped to the ass of a capsule as propulsion across those distances, then yes, it is a major, major problem.

However, many Ufo sightings report that the craft basically vanished as if switched off, or move at incredible speeds, which suggests that another technology is being used, one which we have yet to discover. Maybe they warp dimensions. Whatever. As I've said before, it's arrogance to say that things cannot be done based upon what we know now. Look at all the things we can do today which were unthinkable at the turn of the twentieth century.

It may indeed be possible, but we don't understand it.

[/blue] :sj

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I agree LB,

There is no question that no amount of speed can be used to cover the vast distances of the universe by any species in the universe. It has never happened and it never will happen for reasons that have been explained many times and most recently by Magikman.  

But as has been stated before and just recently by LB, other dimensions or spacetime warps may be possible. Warping spacetime has already been proven, it happens everywhere in the universe everyday. but the extent of warping and the application of warping remains to be seen.  

The String-Theory suggest ripples in spacetime and the M-Theory(Multiple String Theory) suggests the possibility of 11 dimensions. Granted it's just a theory, but out of the vastness of the universe I find easy to believe in more than just 4 dimensions.

Anyways, I believe it's impossible to travel throughout the universe, or even to travel throughout our own galaxy because no amount of speed can cover the distances without taking hundreds of thousands or even millions and billions of years. But I believe space travel could be possible if spacetime could be manipulated by ripples or folds; or that alternate dimensions could be utilized.

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[blue]

For what it's worth, I think the major problem in space travel is not 'how to do it' but 'how to navigate'. When we see starlight, it's already light years old, sometimes millions of years old and as such, the source of the light will have changed. The universe as we see it from our planet earth does not exist. The closest stars have changed position only slightly. The furthest stars have moved great distances.

How do we even begin to navigate through such a complex system?

[/blue] :s9

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:s6 Good point LB.

So even if we did map out any of the star systems out there, they would be out of date.

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Although that is true, we can measure the red shift and blue shift of stars and galaxies to determine their approximate speed, direction and distance. With this information, we have close approximations of their current location in earth's time. That being said, to answer LB's question, we can't navigate through the 'complex system' because the distances are too vast, and not because we don't know where they are currently. After all, we would only have to follow the light.

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[blue] I forgot about the red/blue shift thing. Good point.

But, say you wanted to go from here to the Andromeda Galaxy by warping dimensions etc? How would you know that you wouldn't end up close to or in a star? How would you know you would end up in a spot where it was safe to be?

You might appear in the middle of a giant star and be instantly vaporised? Or on the brink of a black hole you hadn't seen with the lack of red/blue shift...

[/blue] :sg

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Good point. Warping spacetime and utilizing different dimensions are nothing more than science fiction for now. Theoretical physicists have been, and will continue to be, thinking about this for years. One of the problems is that even if they have a theory on it, the technology isn't currently available to test the theory.

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Was just reading this and came up with the thought of just how possibly advanced an Alien race out there in the universe could really be. I mean... we've come along way but what if the whole spacewarp and time dimensions thing has already been discovered and used by an alien race? If anything... all species everywhere in the universe belong to the same universe (for what we know anyway), which means that they too would also have tried to find ways of travelling through space at great speeds......cool :s03

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