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Bizarro

war imminent with N. Korea?

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Beijing — A senior Pentagon adviser has given details of a war strategy for invading North Korea and toppling its regime within 30 to 60 days, adding muscle to a lobbying campaign by U.S. hawks urging a pre-emptive military strike against Pyongyang's nuclear facilities.

Less than four months after the end of the Iraq war, the war drums in Washington have begun pounding again. A growing number of influential U.S. leaders are talking openly of military action against North Korea to destroy its nuclear-weapons program, and even those who prefer negotiations are warning of the mounting danger of war.

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/...ery=north+korea

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Yesi think we will go to war with N.Korea, but quite frankly i don't think the USA would win unless china goes in with them, N.korea has 1 million+ troops, plus 2 million reserves, the odds are going to be heavily against USA, and possible war could dis-balance the entire region from japan to austraila.

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Won't happen... We have to maintain a balance in the region... Without North Korea, China would assume the "agressor" role in Asia, and we do not want that at all. Thank God the Brits gave Hong Kong back, that's really mellowed the Chinese out, but they are still a threat. We have to keep them balanced with North Korea.

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Yes but i don't think the north is gonna take this lying down dude, and china is dependant on its neighbours for trade, if the north lets say fires something at japan, china will stand to loose alot of trade, so china has no choice but to back the US in fear of its economics going into ruins.

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oh crap. Now I have to build up the nerve again to be ready to shoot my foot at will.... I'd rather shoot myself than be forced to shoot others...

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Sukato, wouldn't a united Korea be a much more balancing force in the region than two separate Koreas? we want a unified Korea, but we want it to be on our side, not a communist country. the North Koreans want a belligerent unified Korea. Koreans already do not like the Japanese very much at all, but if a unification of Korea took place leading to a Korea with nukes and animosity towards Japan, it could be real trouble. that's why the nuke thing is bad news for us. it could lead to Japan wanting to get nukes and becoming a power again.

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The last time we went to war with North Korea, China jumped in to help their buddies, and I daresay it wasn't exactly a stunning achievement, we fought to a stalemate. China nowadays is heavily dependent on trade from the west, but I wonder what would happen if we did attack North Korea. Remember, China has nukes too. We did bomb their embassy a few years back when we were involved in Kosovo, and other than making a lot of noise, they didn't do much else. Either way, it's a scary situation indeed.

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Now, historically speaking, every time Korea has been attacked, the Chinese have invaded. Think back to the late 1580's and early 1590's. Toyotomi Hiyadoshi, the Taiko of Japan, tried to take all of Korea for Japan, and they punched up through present day North Korea pretty easily, until they got to the Yaloo (sp?) River, where millions of Chinese warriors engaged the Japanese Army. They gave up and left Korea, convinced of the fact that the Koreans were soft, and only the Chinese beat them.

Bizzaro, you have to understand the Japanese people... They won't want nukes. They are dependent on us for all non-self defense stuff. A fist-fight broke out in Parliament over whether to send JSDF troops (NON-Combat troops, mind you) to Iraq. The warrior spirit of the Samurai is not with the modern Japanese.

As for a unified Korea, this will only happen when we (the US Army) leaves, which is to say never. Remember, the Korean War is still a war, there is just a lull in the fighting. For Reunification to happen, NK will want the US gone, and SK knows that without the US Army, the only "reunification" that will happen will be NK conquering South Korea and making one Communist Korea, which will destabilize the region to hell. Then China will have to toughen up it's act, since it is supposed to be the last bastion of Communism, and that will destabilize the region further. Like I said before, thank God the Brits gave them Hong Kong back... They are like junkies now... They have the first real taste of capitalism, and they like it. Give them 20 years, keep North Korea the "big bad wolf" of the region, keep them isolated, and they will fall apart, like the Soviet Union, and China will be as close to an ally as we'll ever get them.

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/stor...3005154,00.html

i feel i do have an understanding of the Japanese. you may believe that since WWII, the Japanese are a tamed people, but i disagree. you could say the same things about the US after the Civil War. circumstances can lead even a peaceful people into a more aggressive behavior. that is the real issue here. we do not want the Japanese to become a power again. if NK keeps acting belligerent and has nukes, Japan will become more militant again using that as justification.

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I agree with you, Bizarro, circumstances can drive even the most peaceful people into war. Personally, I think this is less likely with the Japanese, but it is far from impossible. *nods* I hope I wasn't being confrotational or anything... It's hard to have a discussion when you can't see or hear the other person... *laughs*

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no, Sukato, i didn't think you were being confrontational. it wouldnt really bother me if you were anyways wink2.gifgrin2.gif

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we want a unified Korea, but we want it to be on our side, not a communist country.

It's this type os statement that worries me...

The unification of North and South Korea is totally up to the Northern and Southern KOREANS, not the U.S, not Britain, not even NATO.

I'm not a fan of nuclear weapons at all, but I still don't see why it has to be the West's sole right to have this technology. If North Korea has it, then so be it.

Now, if all of the countries that had nuclear weapons got rid of them (honestly too, no hidden caches), then I can understand having a kind of World Watchdog to ensure no countries develop or obtain these type of weapons.

I just don't understand the logic of regulating the nuclear arsenals of other countries when you have these weapons yourself.

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ok, Sageghost. first, i am not a policy maker. i do not speak on behalf of the US government. all im saying is that we are definitely opposed to communism. the NK army is like a million strong- that is a very mean force. they want to reunify with SK because they are starving and SK is thriving. the way they hope to force reunification is by playing on Korean nationalistic desires (ie. building a nuclear bomb). the young people in SK are susceptible to this message and that's one of the reasons you see so many demonstrations there. NK is baiting SK into believing the US is the only reason they are not unified- this is clearly not true. NK is a renegade regime that is looking to expand its power. they want reunification, but the Korea they envision is not a peaceful and prosperous place like SK is now. its a much more powerful renegade regime. ive known many Koreans and they tend to be very nationalistic, almost to a fault. they still hate Japanese people even to this day for WWII. that type of nationalism combined with nukes is a scary thing. if we leave Korea to unify and become a more powerful nationalistic state, that will lead to Japan feeling threatened. it will destabilize the entire region because if Japan goes nuclear, suddenly China is threatened... then India. this is bad for the world all of a sudden. that is why we will interfere in this situation if it starts getting ugly.

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If N.Korea becomes a nuclear state, then Japan, faced with a nuclear China and N.Korea, would start it's own nuclear program and will acquire them very quickly. A nuclear Japan would force China to increase it's stockpile of nuclear weapons, which could make Taiwan feel obligated to start it's own program to defend against the increase threat of China's increased stockpile, creating a nuclear arms race in the Far East.

Sageghost,

Not only do 'we' want a unified Korea to be on our side, but the overwhelming majority of Koreans also want a unified Korea that resembles S.Korea where the population is free and the economy is a strong market economy.

Also, nuclear weapons/technology is not the sole right of the west, as Russia, China, Pakistan, India and Israel(non-confirmed) are nuclear powered nations.

What we are trying to do, along with most of the world, is prevent more nations from acquiring nuclear weapons. N.Korea is a very unstable nation, with an economy in shambles and an agressive stance towards us and our allies, which makes it even more dangerous if N.Korea does acquire these weapons.

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I think the point we are trying to make is thus:

If a rogue state or unstable nation acquires Nuclear devices we will all be up sh** creek without so much as a plank of wood for paddling.

and just a single point on israel, they have confirmed to have low yield nuclear devices, in bomb form not missile, and they do admit it, in the three day war between israel and eygpt/syria one plane took off with a bomb after their ground forces were facing imminent defeat, it was shot down but the eygpt syrian forces withdrew shortly after.

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I agree that nuclear devices in the hands of rogue or unstable states is definately a nightmare and must be stopped.

Israel, however, has not confirmed being a nuclear power

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Israel during Gulf war 2 declared they would use tactical nuclear weapons if the former iraqi dictatorship fired chemical or biological tipped scud missiles into israel.

i would say that would be pretty confirmed from this angle, on another point pakistan and india both have nuclear weapons and aren't too bothered about throwing them around either, especially after the nuke stand off they had last year.

It seems the nuclear proliferation treaty is meaningless, as britian along with the USA are still making TRIDENT SLBMS (submarine launched ballistic missiles) with nuclear warheads a payload of 25 megatons of uranium 235 isotopes. whatever happened to the "we aren't making any more bombs" statement? Its not just rogue states anymore its the whole world that needs to destroy them as a whole.

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It's always struck me as odd that as a race we can create all these weapons of mutually assured destruction, send people to the moon, probes to every distant point in our solar system, but basic things like keeping all the people here fed seem to escape us. Sorta off topic I know.

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It seems the nuclear proliferation treaty is meaningless, as britian along with the USA are still making TRIDENT SLBMS (submarine launched ballistic missiles) with nuclear warheads a payload of 25 megatons of uranium 235 isotopes. whatever happened to the "we aren't making any more bombs" statement? Its not just rogue states anymore its the whole world that needs to destroy them as a whole.

You are missing the point entirely with nuclear non-proliferation. I can't speak for Britian, but the U.S. is decreasing their stockpiles of nuclear weapons. They have to continue to produce weapons, at a slower rate, to maintain an updated stockpile due to older model nukes getting scrapped.

The whole world is not going to destroy nuclear weapons, nor do they need to. In fact, due to some non stable governments trying to acquire them, it is important for the more stable nuclear powers to maintain at least enough to provide an adequate deterrent.

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Israel during Gulf war 2 declared they would use tactical nuclear weapons if the former iraqi dictatorship fired chemical or biological tipped scud missiles into israel.

i would say that would be pretty confirmed from this angle

The head of the Israeli air force warned that if the country were attacked by Iraq with chemical or biological weapons, it could respond with a nuclear strike. Israel has confirmed of having a nuclear weapons program, and of having nuclear devices. Israel also has confirmed having a 'vague nuclear deterrent', leaving to the imagination of Israel's enemies exactly what sort of retaliation they would face if they were attacked.

Since 1965 it has "refused to confirm or deny", although it has said that it "will not be the first to introduce them into the Middle East".

It has refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, saying it cannot rely on international safeguards when it is in a permanent state of war with much of the Arab world.

However, I can't find anywhere that the government(any Israeli government) has confirmed or denied having nuclear weapons.

Please post your source that the Israeli government has confirmed Israel as being a nuclear power

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i see the point you are trying to make, but the fact remains that they said they would have used them, does that not make it confirmed? although their goverment hasn't officially confirmed their nuclear arsenal, and saying that they will use them when threatened, it do not see how it can't be confirmed. if they say they have them, why lie about it?

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I agree with you. I know they have them, I was merely stating the position of their government. As to why their government hasn't made it official when it seems everyone else has, I really have no idea. I was thinking perhaps that if confirmed it would make their enemies even more vigorously persue them, but since their enemies already know they have them, I don't see how confirming it would change anything.

What do you mean the point I am trying to make? grin2.gif

just kidding original.gif

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Well if they nuke me all well and good, but don't exepect me to be ahppy about it lol, radiation is so hard to wash out even on a 90'c wash.

ph34r.gifgunsmilie.gif

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While the majority of North Koreans live in poverty the Govt. continues to explore nuclear weaponry.

Seems crazy to me.

Sad for those millions of poeple.

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Thank goodness we solved that problem.

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