Dinosaurs & Humans

[etvisitor7]

In 1983 it was reported in the "Moscow News" that a fossilized human footprint had been discovered right next to a three-toed dinosaur's fossil footprint. This occurred in the Turkmen Republic of the then southwestern USSR.

In 1960, the scientific magazine "Nature" told of the discovery of fossilized dinosaur footprints in the same strata that contained those of humans. These were found in and near the Paluxy River in Texas.

[frogfish]

then why havent any bones of humans been found in the same strata layer?

[draconic chronicler]

I have seen the texas print, and not very convincing. The place is a hotbed of "fundemental creationism" though. Fundementalist find it exceedingly important to "prove" such things since they believe the earth was created in only six days, and all the animals in the world's fossil record lived at the same time. Even more amusing, because of the many accounts of "dragons" in the bible after the "flood", they suggest Noah brought creatures like T-Rex on his ark!

[DemonWatcher]

it is possible that something with a foot like ours was around but not likely, more than likely they are both fakes, for humans to be living amongst dinosaurs, is not likely we would just be a good snack.

[draconic chronicler]

I believe a real paleontologist stated it was a "partial" imprint of an identified dinosaur. It is important to realise there was only one single print that looked vaguely human, not a whole trackway, which is actually common in that region in the case of real dino prints. Outright "fakes" can be easily detected due to a surface patina that builds up on rocks, this wasn't the case.

On the other hand, maybe there was only "one" footprint because he was a future time traveler, and that's about as far as he got before a dino got him!

[Pyxis]

I've heard of the Texas prints. They're eroded dinosaur prints. The claw marks are gone.

[mnwolfman]

Did humans live alongside dinosaurs? In a word...no.

[Eternal Light]

I believe a real paleontologist stated it was a "partial" imprint of an identified dinosaur. It is important to realise there was only one single print that looked vaguely human, not a whole trackway, which is actually common in that region in the case of real dino prints. Outright "fakes" can be easily detected due to a surface patina that builds up on rocks, this wasn't the case.

On the other hand, maybe there was only "one" footprint because he was a future time traveler, and that's about as far as he got before a dino got him!

Forgive my ignorance ( Alas, my knowledge of dinosaurs is lamentably minute,) but I quite thought that they were herbivorous creatures, were'nt they?

[Pyxis]

thought that they were herbivorous creatures, were'nt they

Nope not all of them. Some were predators, some were scavengers, some were herbivores.

[Guardsman Bass]

They did not. Dinosaurs perished roughly around 65 million years ago, while modern humans didn't arise until (at most) around 100-200,000 years ago.

[etvisitor7]

I have seen the texas print, and not very convincing. The place is a hotbed of "fundemental creationism" though. Fundementalist find it exceedingly important to "prove" such things since they believe the earth was created in only six days, and all the animals in the world's fossil record lived at the same time. Even more amusing, because of the many accounts of "dragons" in the bible after the "flood", they suggest Noah brought creatures like T-Rex on his ark!

Draconic Chronicler, I totally agree that it's absurd to believe the Earth was created in only 6 days. I think "6 days" is symbolic of many millions, possibly billions, of years of evolution, what I would call 6 'Cosmic Days'---an exceedingly long period of time (many aeons)!

There is a Number key hidden in the Bible which has everything to do with the lost science of Sacred Geometry alluded to in such books as "The Da Vinci Code", "The Templar Revelation", "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", and other similar writings so popular today. The Book of Genesis says that God created the world in 6 "days", then rested on the 7th one: according to the Science of Sacred Geometry, known by ancient civilizations but now lost, everything existing in Creation is fundamentally septenary in nature---that is, composed of 7 aspects. For example, there are the 7 energy Chakras in the human body; 7 Sacred planets of the Ancients; 7 Rays of energy that God utilised to create the universe; the 7 Root Races of humanity; the 7 Pillars of Hercules; and so on. The spiritual meaning of the number 6 is contained in the famed geometric figure, the Star of David with its 6 points (symbolic, amongst many other things, of the 6 "Cosmic Days" of Creation). The 7th point of the Star of David would be in its Center, in which "God rested on the 7th (Cosmic) day." The 7th point is the point of STILLNESS, of rest: "Be still, and know that I AM God."

I would say that the flood in Noah's time is most likely the world-wide catastrophe that sank the continent of Atlantis about 12,000 years ago. If humans and dinosaurs coexisted in Atlantis, then it's always possible that some of those gigantic creatures survived the flood, which may be why "dragons" are so often mentioned in the Bible after the sinking of Atlantis.

I think the dinosaurs were decimated by world-wide catastrophe, most likely in the form of sudden Pole shifts, more than once. Scientists are probably correct in saying dinosaurs were destroyed many, many millions of years ago. But I think there is evidence that at least some of them survived and went on to coexist with humans in Lemuria and Atlantis until those continents were also destroyed. But, again, some dinosaurs might have survived, which explains why Native Americans tell historical tales of their tribes in fierce battles with the dreaded "Piasa", a gigantic winged creature that had 2 arms and 2 legs, just the SAME as the Pterodactyl!

[draconic chronicler]

ET,

I do not think there is any hard evidence for those lost civilizations. Atlantis was probably the Minoan Thera, and there are no accounts of dinosaurs in the original Greek accounts.

I agree that depending on the interpretation, the Biblical creation story can be a 6 day fairytale or a remarkable revelation that its writers fully understood the Big Bang creation of the Universe, and creatures evolving over millions of years, beginning with fish, ending with man, and dinosuars (great monsters) in between. My dragon book is based on the latter premise, that the creation story proves the validity of this God, and the numerous references to dragons, particularly those stating these were heavenly creatures of destruction would validate the belief in dragons in virtually every part of the world. They cannot be dinosaurs, all of which died out circa 65 million years ago, but probably share a common ancestry, as we do with other primates.

Perodactyls do not have arms, legs, and wings. Only wings and legs like a bird, but there are claws on the wings as the wings are vestigial arms. The piasa is drawn exactly like a European medieval dragon, or for that matter, bronze age Sumerian servant-dragons which were the prototypes for the dragons of the Bible. They are probably all connected, particularly since the Piasa legends suggest highly intelligent creatures on the level of humans.

Fundamentalists have misinterpreted these references to dragons and regard them as surviving dinosaurs instead of heavenly creatures even the the Bible, and supporting ancient religious texts clearly indicate this.

[TheEssenceofExcellence]

I don't know for sure if humans and dinos lived at the same time or not. I don't think they did. I think that the 6 days of creation happened just like the Bible says they did. But I don't think they happened one after another like most other people believe. No where in Genesis does it say the days of creation happened right after one another, all it says is that on one day God did such and such, then on the next day he did such and such......it doesn't say on the 1st of April he did this and then on the 2nd of April (in the same year) he did this. I think there are probably millions of years that seperate the 6 days of creation. I think it's more like a quick review of how God got the world to the point it is now and it doesn't bother to go into detail about everything that happened in between because that isn't the Bible's purpose.

Although, if dinos and humans did coexist (which is possible) the website linked on the Science of the bible topic in the spirituality and religion forum gives a interesting theory on it:

It states that dinos and humans could have lived side by side before the great flood... Before the flood the atmosphere was thicker or something (I think it states known evidence that dinos resparitory system was built to breathe air that was richer with oxygen then in this time) the air back then or in the time of the dinos had twice as much oxygen in it then todays air. When Noah built the ark, he could have put dinos in it by putting baby or immature dinos in it, because they wouldn't be as heavy and they wouldn't eat as much... After the flood was over the atmosphere wasn't as thick, there wasn't as much oxygen in the air as before, because of this dinos had a harder time breathing which would have led to their exticntion.

I think that theory makes some sense, but I don't think that it's right. But there are references in the bible to dragons or dinos......two match the desrciption of large sauropods and something that looks like Nesse. ....Maybe the bible references don't mean that all dinos and humans lived at the same time, but maybe a few species did. We all know the sightings of lake monsters, which sound like what the bible is describing, plus I remember reading a few books back when I was a little kid that talked about sightings of small sauropod dinosaurs spotted in the thick jungles of Africa. It seems strange that the two types of dinos described in the bible have been sighted in modern times.

Another piece of evidence the site uses to support a theory that dinos were killed in a great flood are the bone beds or mass dino grave yards that have many different species in them. They point out that no where else are there places where different species are all found dead together......the site states that if they were all killed in a massive flood, they would have all wound up at the bottom of the sea together, then have gotten covered by sedement, and when the waters receded they were burried and became fossilized.

I'd have to say I once again agree that the theory makes sense, but I think they forgot to think about places where there were once tar pits that would create mass graveyards.

All in all I personally think that the dinos didn't live during the same time we came about; but those theories do give you something to think about.

[draconic chronicler]

The problem with that theory, is if you are gong to believe in a six day literal creation, the same bible talks about these same creatures in which the hebrew word "tannyn" is translated to mean "dragons", are mentioned in the book of Psalms singing praised to God, like the seraphims dragons in Isaiah, God riding on their backs, etc., sending one to swallow Jonah (not a whale in the hebrew text), and the talking creature known as Satan is one as well. And he is just one of a whole "army" of these dragon creatures mentioned in the Bible. The bible also says they spew fire from their mouths and smoke from their nostrils. These are obviously not walnut brained dinosaurs they are talking about . Those all died off 65 million years ago. These are the intelligent, fire spewing "dragons" that appear in almost every culture of the world, whether they are real or not that's obviously what they are talkng about, not dinosaurs, unless you believe the biblical Satan is a dinosaur.

Edited October 14, 2005 by draconic chronicler

[theSOURCE]

Of course humans and dinos live at the same time. Didn't anyone here see the movie One Million Years BC?

It says it right on the poster, "This is the way it was." And, since I've been told several times that a movie based on actual events is true, then this has to be real.

Edited October 14, 2005 by theSOURCE

[frogfish]

never take the media seriously...

[Raistlin Majere]

He was joking.

And I'm very curious about your theories of dragons, DC. Think you could PM me some of the general material and ideas in your book that you say you are writing? You have my attention.

[Ashley-Star*Child]

You all know my answer to this.

Now, before you all go ape-crap, do please try t remember that Bush has considered allowing the teaching of Intelligent Design into schools alongside Evolution. Evolution is a merely theory, one day, people will realize that.

Also, might I add, that in some state in the U.S. an IMAX theatre REFUSED to show Evolution documentaries because people were walking out disgusted, they said 'it seems there are more Creationists that Evolutionists'. In that town anyway.

I shall also add there are many different types of Creationism (hence why 'Intelligent Design' is better wording as there are also many different time frames) and Intelligent Design deserves as much credit and respect as any other theory. As many of you already know from a past post I made, thre are scientists who rebuke Evolution as bunk because they themselves have tested it and it can't even pass a chicken far test. They techincally are on neither Creationism or Evolution's side, but because o the rebuke over Evolution they get defamed in every possible way by hardcore Evolutionists worried about losing their jobs.

The latest comeback for Evolution is 'the proof is DNA itself'. Quite the opposite, DNA, with all it's complexity goes in favor of intelligent design, and not an accident of nature. There also, is no hardcore proof for Macro Evolution in DNA (Micro Evolution is not 'owned' by Macro and 'Evolution' itself, it stands on it's own can be used either way. In fact without Micro, Macro wouldn't have a hope in hell of being believed). A human fetus shows similarities to dolphins, dogs, chickens, apes, and get this, a daffodil. Now if you want to claim humans have ancestors in all of the above, you have a real mighty imagination.

Edited October 15, 2005 by Ashley-Star*Child

[TheEssenceofExcellence]

and the talking creature known as Satan is one as well. And he is just one of a whole "army" of these dragon creatures mentioned in the Bible. , unless you believe the biblical Satan is a dinosaur.

Satan isn't an actual dragon, he just takes the form of one during the battle of Heaven and such. He's just an Angel, and we all have heard how Angels can take many froms: doves, wingless human, winged human, blinding light, ect...

I think the reason Satan is known as or is symbolized as the Dragon is because the Dragon is a creature that is always linked to cultures that are opposite of Christian. Like asians for example, the native americans, and the babylonians. The reptile or dragon worshiping peoples and religions always do things that are against the things taught in the Christian religion........which is probably why Satan takes the form of one, it seems like another spit in the face by him towards God and the light.

Edited October 15, 2005 by TheEssenceofExcellence

[Kryso]

This dinosaur footprint in cretaceous limestone on the banks of the Paluxy River is approximately 30 cm (one foot) across, and located with similar tracks. Early excavations in this area revealed human footprints inside the dinosaur tracks leading to rumors that the human prints had claws -- later excavations uncovered human footprints up to 64 cm long (25 inches) next to the dinosaur prints -- this discounted the doubters. A human handprint was also found.

Check out these other facts!

Here is an interesting collection of finds!

[Essan]

What they don't tell you is that the so-called human footprints and hand prints are actually..............dinosaur footprints

But why let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh?

Edited October 15, 2005 by Essan

[frogfish]

wait, I am catholic, and I DONT believe in creationism....everything in the Bible should not be taken seriously...I believe that God shaped evolution and helped it along the way.

There is one question, why has a human skeleton never been found more than 10,000 years ago? That must mean something...

[Kryso]

wait, I am catholic, and I DONT believe in creationism....everything in the Bible should not be taken seriously...I believe that God shaped evolution and helped it along the way.

There is one question, why has a human skeleton never been found more than 10,000 years ago? That must mean something...

Here's a 30,000 year old foot print!

BBC News

And here are bones said to be around 190,000 years old!

When the bones of two early humans were found in 1967 near Kibish, Ethiopia, they were thought to be 130,000 years old. A few years ago, researchers found 154,000- to 160,000-year-old human bones at Herto, Ethiopia. Now, a new study of the 1967 fossil site indicates the earliest known members of our species, Homo sapiens, roamed Africa about 195,000 years ago.

The study moves the date of human skulls found in Ethiopia's Kibish rock formation in 1967 back from 130,000 years to a newly determined date of 195,000 years ago, give or take 5,000 years. Fossils from an individual known as Omo I look like bones of modern humans, but other bones are from a more primitive cousin named Omo II.

Science Daily

[indeed]

I wont comment on the whole religious Evo/creationism, as this is not the religious part of the forum.

frogfish, Its seems that the oldest modern human fossils are between 130,000 and 195,000 years old.

Some links to read .....

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/release...11_idaltu.shtml

http://www.fossilmuseum.net/UD%20desktop/U...ostings/Omo.htm

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...6B8809EC588EEDF

http://www.utah.edu/unews/releases/05/feb/homosapiens.html

Kryso beat me

Edited October 15, 2005 by indeed

[frogfish]

ok, sry, my fault....

WHY haven't there been human skeletons found predating 65 MYA?