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chunga

The Lost Dutchman Mine

34 posts in this topic

I have traveled to the Superstition's twice in my futile search for the fabled Lost Dutchman Mine. Iam still poor unfortunately. I have aquired much data and lore on the subject yet need information on Maria Jones . She led a haphazard yet diligent party of seekers for many years. If you know of her happenings or whereabouts after she left the superstitions I would like very much to hear the story of what became of her.

Any lore or experiences anyone has in the area or in trying to find the mine, also Please do tell all. I know how secretive prospector's can be so this may be a tough endeavor. THANKS

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You might try reading "Quest for the Dutchman’s Gold” by Robert Sikorsky. Tales of searching for LDM in the party of Celeste Jones in the 1960s. Generally regarded as a well written and accurate record.

The old Jacob Waltz mine is as elusive as any known and I have personal doubts that it will ever be found.

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You might try reading "Quest for the Dutchman’s Gold” by Robert Sikorsky. Tales of searching for LDM in the party of Celeste Jones in the 1960s. Generally regarded as a well written and accurate record.

The old Jacob Waltz mine is as elusive as any known and I have personal doubts that it will ever be found.

Thank You, I have met Bob and spoke to him at length regarding those college days of his, Hhe is unaware of Maria's life post her courageous search. He is an impressive writer and a fun man to hang with once you get him talking about the old days as he puts it.

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I seem to remember the name, Hope Root. As I recall, she found what appeared to be a storage pit for the gold. Perhaps it was a pit from the days of the Spaniards who reported knew of the mine but I assume it would have to be near the site.

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Is this in any way related to the flying Dutchman? That ghost ship? o.o;

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Is this in any way related to the flying Dutchman? That ghost ship? o.o;

No, its not associated with that subject. It gets confusing all the different myths and legends. This is briefly the story of a german prospector who came to california and mined for many years and ended up penniless and ill at an elderly age. He did however make one last attempt to strike it rich in the Superstition Mountains and came out ill and dying. Going to his friend's home for comfort and tendin to he told of hitting the big one and left directions on his deathbed to 2 people. Said it was worth millions and millions. A mine so rich you could almost take a spoon and scoop it off the walls.

All these years many have searched and many have died and all with a crumpled yellow map stating here lies the gold, dig here. Yet none have been able to prove its existence and some are just plain missing.

Thats such a bare facts account, its really a great mystery and fun to research.

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No, its not associated with that subject. It gets confusing all the different myths and legends. This is briefly the story of a german prospector who came to california and mined for many years and ended up penniless and ill at an elderly age. He did however make one last attempt to strike it rich in the Superstition Mountains and came out ill and dying. Going to his friend's home for comfort and tendin to he told of hitting the big one and left directions on his deathbed to 2 people. Said it was worth millions and millions. A mine so rich you could almost take a spoon and scoop it off the walls.

All these years many have searched and many have died and all with a crumpled yellow map stating here lies the gold, dig here. Yet none have been able to prove its existence and some are just plain missing.

Thats such a bare facts account, its really a great mystery and fun to research.

If I was dying, I'd do something like that. Tell my grandchildren I had $3 million in a Swiss bank for them.

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Reportedly he had driven rocks into cactus to point the direction to the needle's eye that dramatically cast a light on the spot. But cactus' turn as they grow, thus supposedly eliminating this clue. I have always wondered why the speed of that turning could not be calculated and then reverse the turning to the time of Waltz's reported discovery.

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Reportedly he had driven rocks into cactus to point the direction to the needle's eye that dramatically cast a light on the spot. But cactus' turn as they grow, thus supposedly eliminating this clue. I have always wondered why the speed of that turning could not be calculated and then reverse the turning to the time of Waltz's reported discovery.

Jacob Waltz told his friend that she should look for a wickedly twisted cactus then look south east and she would be looking at the site on weavers needle that the mine was in.'

The problem is there are millions of odd, mishapen twisted cactus.

So may clues and over the years so many theories. Iam interested in the whereabouts of maria jones or her crew, or the gypsy palm reader that was leading them.

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Jacob Waltz told his friend that she should look for a wickedly twisted cactus then look south east and she would be looking at the site on weavers needle that the mine was in.'

The problem is there are millions of odd, mishapen twisted cactus.

So may clues and over the years so many theories. Iam interested in the whereabouts of maria jones or her crew, or the gypsy palm reader that was leading them.

As I recall, a cactus with the rocks driven into was actually found. I may be mistaken but my memory seems to be pretty clear on that. Have you done a people search on Marie? You mentioned her as Maria Jones while I found references to her as Marie Celeste Jones.

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im not really familiar with this legend but have heard that it was a cover story for a cache hidden by the knights of the golden circle.

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To make things even more complicated, there is a Lost Dutchman's mine in South Eastern Oregon. It's description is that a potato field was planted by the entrance.

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I live in the state of Arizona and have heard all kinds of stories about the mine some say it never exsisted some say he spread the rumor it was hidden there when in truth not. Take your pick of which story to believe and there is a site I found saying they found the mine already. Check it: http://www.desertusa.com/mag98/aug/stories/lost1.html and judge for yourself. But I hear the place is cursed either way make sure you have plenty water and food if you go there. :D

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Hey, Ancestralbone another arizonan :tu: Anyways, , I hike the superstition springs mountains about once a week to once every two weeks and have been doing so ever since we moved here eight years ago, and have never found the L.D.M.

I believe the story is told to bring tourists here :yes:

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Hey, Ancestralbone another arizonan :tu: Anyways, , I hike the superstition springs mountains about once a week to once every two weeks and have been doing so ever since we moved here eight years ago, and have never found the L.D.M.

I believe the story is told to bring tourists here :yes:

You are probably right and my area where I live has a lot of places for tourist to spend, spend until that are broke. I live near the Cochsie stronghold and the Chiricahua mountains. We have people hiking the stronghold to see if they can find Cochise's remains and whatever may be with him. I hope that is one thing they never find but it would be nice to know for sure if there really is a lost Dutchman mine. :D

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I went to the L.D.M. ghost town/mine recently, I think that was it, the one by bush highway/beeline.

Anyways, the curater their told me that he doesn't even know if the story is true, he said even if it is, it probably doesn't involve actual gold or treasure, but merely some other mine such as copper or coal or mabye no treasure at all. He also said that even if it was just a myth, he wouldn't tell anyone, in fear of loosing tourists.

*That greedy son of a gun* <_<

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I would have replied well, if you ain't going to spill I think I can do a good job of keeping the tourists away. Either way pal your business is going to suffer after all a woman scorned is not to mess with especially if she pms at the time of scorning. :D Edited by Ancestralbone

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I am new to this site but on your question about the lost dutchman mine ( is it real ). You bet it is real. I have done about six years research on this subject. I can tell you its not around wevers needle. You must go in through seceond water trailhead. fallow that to boulder canyon south to the old millatary trail east. Go half way up the mountian and keep an eye out on your left as you go. You will be within 100 ft. of the dutchman. It is true he said you can not see the mine from the old millatary trail but you can see the trail from the mine. Its not just the dutchman mine the entire area below the m-trail is loaded with GOLD. I know this because i have found it all. GOLDLEG.

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I am new to this site but on your question about the lost dutchman mine ( is it real ). You bet it is real. I have done about six years research on this subject. I can tell you its not around wevers needle. You must go in through seceond water trailhead. fallow that to boulder canyon south to the old millatary trail east. Go half way up the mountian and keep an eye out on your left as you go. You will be within 100 ft. of the dutchman. It is true he said you can not see the mine from the old millatary trail but you can see the trail from the mine. Its not just the dutchman mine the entire area below the m-trail is loaded with GOLD. I know this because i have found it all. GOLDLEG.

Hello to you,

This post interests me greatly. I will be posting to you regarding this subject in the coming days for sure. Busy now, sorry. Some of the things you mention spark my interest. You seem to know certain things. I get what you are saying and would like the opportunity to discuss this with you further. Bye

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I am new to this site but on your question about the lost dutchman mine ( is it real ). You bet it is real. I have done about six years research on this subject. I can tell you its not around wevers needle. You must go in through seceond water trailhead. fallow that to boulder canyon south to the old millatary trail east. Go half way up the mountian and keep an eye out on your left as you go. You will be within 100 ft. of the dutchman. It is true he said you can not see the mine from the old millatary trail but you can see the trail from the mine. Its not just the dutchman mine the entire area below the m-trail is loaded with GOLD. I know this because i have found it all. GOLDLEG.

Well goldleg ant chance you will share it with us

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Well goldleg ant chance you will share it with us

HI,

Iam the originator of this thread. You wouldn't happen to be Louie who worked in the Maria Jones Camp would you??????????

If not, sorry. Just checking.

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Hello Chunga (and everybody else)

Well Celeste Marie Arva Jones pretty much just faded away. Little is known about her before or after her search for the Lost Jesuits Treasure (she was more interested in that then the Lost Dutchman Mine.....unless you belive they are one and the same). Ed Piper was searching for the same Jesuit Treasure in the same area as Jones (Weaver's Needle) and that was the fuel for there feud which included gunfights ending in the death of Robert St. Marie (a so-called Hired Gun for the Jones camp) by Ed Piper. Sorry but while her time in the Supertitions is well documented her life before and after that are pretty much as elusive as the Dutchmans Gold........so far that is. Let me know if you find anything out about what happened to her. She did come from the L.A. area so maybe she returned there and started up her singing career again.

As far as my experiences in the search for the LDM go I wish I had some fantastic story to tell but I don't (YET). While I have my own theory about it's location....... it's no better or worse then any other Dutch Hunters. I'll be going in to the Superstitions in Feb & Mar (I'm leaving for AZ this weekend) maybe this will be the trip it all comes togeather.

Best of luck in your search for for Marie Jone's life after the Superstitions,

Greg

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the entrance to the ldm is purportadly to be within 1/4 mile of the trail head entrance to the mine (Which really isn't a mine but a sort of hollow) that the Apache buried completely...

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The problem with searching for the LDM isn't finding clues it's that there are to many clues.

Here are the basics widely excepted clues:

#1 It lies within an imaginary circle whose diameter is not more than five miles and whose center is marked by Weaver's Needle, about 2,500 feet high, among a confusion of lesser peaks and mountainous masses of basaltic rock. The first gorge on the south side of the west end of the range, they found a trail which led them northward over a lofty ridge, thence downward past Sombrero Butte into a long canyon running north, and finally to a tributary canyon very deep and rocky and densely wooded with a continuous thicket of scrub oak. Then up a side canyon past water. Its about 200 feet across from a cave.

#2 If you pass three Red Hills you have gone too far.

#3 You can watch the military trail from the mine, but you cannot be seen from the military trail.

#4 The setting sun shines through a break in the mountains and glitters upon the ore and shaft.

#5 You have to climb a short ways from a steep ravine in order to see Weaver's Needle to the southward from above the mine.

#6 You can see Waver's Needle to the south and Four Peaks to the north where Four Peaks looks like one peak.

#7 From the cave you go about a mile up the same canyon, which runs north-south, until you find a ridge upon the end of which is a natural stone face looking upward to the east. Directly across from the face is a high narrow ravine where you will find the inclined entrance to the mine. Down the slope below the mine shaft is a walled up tunnel. The canyon can be identified further by the tumbled ruins of an Old Spanish-built stone house near its head.

#8 There is a roofless two room house made of heaped-up stones in the mouth of a large cave near the mine. The cave is near the bottom of a high bluff and faces northward and you need a tarpaulin hanging in the entrance to keep out the north wind and rain.

#9 The shaft goes down upon an eighteen inch vein of rose quartz which is studded with pinhead nuggets of gold with and beside it, a three inch hanging wall of hematite quartz that is itself about a third pure gold.

#10 The first gorge on the south side from the west end of the range. There the trail is marked northward over a lofty ridge. Then on down past a high pinnacle rock into a long canyon running north, and finally through a tributary canyon which is very deep and rocky. Traces of mining operations are to be found on the southern slop of the mountain in front of a hat-shaped hill at the entrance to a canyon of willows. Nearby are the ruins of a stone adobe house and a half buried stone monument.

#11 Start from the first natural stone face near the western end of the mountains. From the direction of approach over the desert you have to go up the first deep canyon from the western end of the range, climb northward over the backbone of the mountains until you come within sight of a huge, sombrero-shaped peak. Travel downward past the base of this La Sombrero into a long canyon running north until you find on the east side a tributary canyon which is very deep, pot-holed and densely wooded with scrub oak. Then turn about and go back southward up this tributary canyon until you reach a point where the outline on the horizon matches the outline upon the map. You go up a steep tributary arroyo which seems to run right into the shadows of overhanging cliffs, but instead ends finally in a miniature hidden valley. The gold shaft is in this valley.

#12 In a gulch in the Superstition Mountains, the location of which is described by certain landmarks, there is a two-room house in the mouth of a cave on the side of the slope near the gulch. Just across the gulch about 200 yards, opposite this house in the cave, is a tunnel, will covered up and concealed in the bushes. Here is the mine, the richest in the world. Some distance about the tunnel on the side of the mountain is a shaft or incline that is not so steep but one can climb down. This is carefully covered. The shaft goes right down in the midst of the rich gold ledge where the gold can be picked off in big flakes.

#13 Go to First Water, then to Second Water, then take the old Government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south, you will see over the point of the ridge, you can look north and the Four Peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle-pointed rock. In the canyon under you is the hidden camp. You can't get down there because it is too steep, but go to the mouth of the canyon and then back. You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. After finding the camp, come back out of the canyon. Across the canyon and up it is a side canyon. Go up this side canyon to a cave. Opposite the cave is a tunnel and the mine.

Are these the Gospel according to Jake? who the Hell knows. But IMHO you have to "Start" with these.

And then there are the maps...............but I'll save that for another post.

Greg

Edited by GK_STAR

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Didn't they talk about this mine in Unsolved Mysteries?

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