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odinsupreme

The USA is threatning world peace!!!

78 posts in this topic

I am very concerned lately about the actions of the USA. The are now even making plans to thorw some nukes if something would happen (ok, not so easy as I wrote it down, but still.) The declared a kind of war against Northern Korea, Irak, Iran and other "bad" countries and the support of Bush is still growing. Am I the only one who sees that this isn't heading in a nice direction?

Bush is tearing down all the political bands that Clinton had built up. Wth his actions he is starting a new Cold War. I hope that when his 4 years are over a better president comes that is concerned about the future of our planet and out people.

Odin Supreme

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Odin,

One cant threaten what doesnt exist. World peace has never existed, therefore cant be threatened. The nukes you are referring to are against targets that wouldnt be phased by conventional weapons, and only if the U.S. was the victim of another attack equaling or surpassing the destruction of Sept.11th.

Im not critisizing Clinton or praising Bush when I say that the "political bands" you refer to that Clinton had built are a travesty, and I challenge you to give me one example where I'm wrong, and that Bush tore down a valid reliable "political band" worth anything.

The question was clearly whether or not we feel Bush is threatening world peace, and not how we feel about the use of nukes.

So my statement literally cant be argued with when I say there was no world peace to threaten. So my answer is no.

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Homer,

I have to admit that you are right about the fact that there is no world peace, I asked why question wqrong.. I meant to say that they are firing up violonce and wars and that is something they are really doing.

And about the political bands, one of the things that Clinton achived was that Russia slowly began to talk with the USA and also China. China was the first thing that Bush chnaged when he became president (the affaire with the microphones in the airplane).

I hope that you now know what I mean.

Odin S.

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Odin,

First of all your, what you meant to say is a good question, and I can understand your point of view.

Secondly, thank you for responding so quickly with an actual example. Are you suggesting that the standoff with China and the U.S. over the microphone on the plane incident is the first attempt for the U.S. to eaves drop on China?

The U.S. have been eaves dropping on China for decades and that won't stop. The Chinese sent fighters(clumsy ones at that ;D) to intercept the surveillance aircraft over international airspace and you say President Bush is changing it's policy on China? I'm afraid that won't fly as valid example of Bush changing Clinton's policy.

Since you rephrased your question, and I feel it poses an intersting debate, I will post my reply shortly

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I have put yes, but i took th question as if it was is america ripping at the balance of world power in the war they are fighting, and also making hostilities worse? the answer to this is yes, they are making hostilities worse with the inncessant bombarding of there enemies with everything they have.

America is scaring a lot of the war mongers, such as the middle east and they are stepping up the attacks so they can be ready to fight when the americans come, without having to fight each other.

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I think the U.S. is doing what President Bush said they(we) would do, and that is to "bring them to justice, or bring justice to them".

So far the targets have only been those responsible for the attacks on 9/11. It is my opinion that to end the war without COMPLETELY eliminating(or attempt to)Al Qaeda would be a failure.

The war on terrorism has spread outside of Afghanistan because the terrorists are outside of Afghanistan. Nobody thinks that terrorism will end, but to let it go unpunished would be a global catastrophy. Outside of Afghanistan, the U.S. is ASSISTING some nations to eliminate terrorists on their own.

The only specific area where the balance of power is even remotely questioned, (at least until the overthrow of Saddam Hussein) would be the deployment of U.S. forces in Georgia, where Russia has shown it's displeasure.  For anyone that understands Russian history, it is understandable that the Georgian President didn't seek the Russian President's assistance, especially since the Russian government have recently tried to overthrow the Georgian government. And Georgia is in fear of total collapse, in a large part due to the terrorsists(including Al Qaeda). The balance of power really won't be a valid point there.

Upon the overthrow of Iraqi President Hussein is where the question remark lies. If he's ousted from power, then what, and where will that leave the other factions of the Middle East? As far as making hostilities worse, it is my opinion that it will only be worse for the terrorists, and those that protect them.

This is a long winded reply, but I feel the global stutus quo isn't working, and change is needed. Even if that change COULD BE for the worse. For the record, I am biased in favor of the U.S., but this is how I really feel.

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I voted yes, because i believe American military action is not condusive to world peace. That said i support the attempts that have been made to take the threat of terrorism away - because i don't believe that would bring peace either - it has been a no-win situation for a great many years and if you look back in recorded history peace is the exception NOT the rule.

Bush is saying the "it's a dirty job, but someone has to do it" line and if everyone is behind him, the situation will be solved all the quicker. If there is major discent and Bush has less power to deal with it, then the half measures used will only preserve the status quo, leaving the possibility of another sept 11th or worse.

Yes i'm worried, but i'm also not surprised.

Two related links:

Doomsday Clock

Nuke plans

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I'm actually very impressed with the Bushman!  I think he's been very 'fair' with his response to September 11th.  He could've just reduced Afghanistan to a carpark  that same day but he's continued to exercise some restraint.  

Clinton was a w*nker (quite literally).  I could'nt believe he got away with the things he did.  Purgory? Adultery?  Fair enough, I understand not all Presidents are faithful to their wives, but he brought nothing but scandal to the Whitehouse.  I do think it's important for a head of state to set some moral standards, of which he had none.  And his final push to get peace in Ireland during his last 3 months in power (just so he'd have one big accomplishment under his belt.  So that he's the president who restores peace, NOT commits adultery with anyone who'll have him and purgory in the highest court in the land) was an insult to the years of negotiations that had taken place before he'd even heard of the troubles there.

I'm more p***ed off with Israel and Palestine, as they've used the war on terrorism to kick off their own scrap again.  It's THERE I think we should be concerned about.  Although, it does seem we are being prepared for all sorts of **** to go down with Iraq any time now.   I think when Saddam is finally taken out, the people of Iraq will celebrate their socks off.  

Anyway...oops...didnae mean to rant.   ;)

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I have seen another "problem" of the American policy. They shoot at people that are not there friends. I mean with that: "If it isn't with us, it is our enemy" that is wrong. You see it in Northern Korea. Why is he affraid of them? That country is finally after years of isolament talking eith other natuions and then there comes Bush and says that they are evil and that they can be compared with Iraq. Now do not think that I agree woith the things they did but they have never done things like Iraq.

ScaryD,

I can understand that you say the a president or a leader needs good moral standards but he is still a human and humans aren't perfect.

The thing about Northern Ireland, I think that it woul be wiser to invest some time into that to get the western coubtries like the should be rather then yelling at underdeveloped countries that they are doing everything wrong.

Odin S.

PS,

Has anyone of you heard of Pim Fortuyn? Check BBcC or so, they will surely talk about him..

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Odin,

You have taken the "If it isn't with us, it is our enemy" completely out of context. "If you are not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem" specifically refers to the war on terrorism. Rooting out terrorists is a global problem, and not an American problem(or at least it should be).

Since when are we shooting at N. Korea? Can you give some examples of that nation joining the global community? Let's see, they are currently developing weapons of mass destruction, and this is something that they ADMIT! They are starving their own people, and it's the U.S. who is their largest donator of humanitarian supplies. They launch at will new missiles over the Japanese Islands. They have about 1 million troops, most of which are stationed along the demilitarized zone with the border of S. Korea. America, by the way, has only 38,000 troops there.  Given the FACTS that I have just stated, tell me why again they shouldn't be labeled an "axis of evil"? And again, when did we start shooting at them?

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Odin,

Yes, you're right; no one's perfect.  

However Clinton abused his position first as Governor and then as President.  Women are attracted to powerful men - he has a face like a sack of tatties, and yet he still shagged around with woman after woman.   AND while monica wasn't exactly an angel herself, I can understand why she was won over by him - the most powerful man in the world wanted to be with her furgawdssake!  

Lori-fitsherface won her action against him for his 'behaviour' whilst he was Governor long before he even got to the Whitehouse (I need to refresh myself on these facts, but I'm pretty accurate I'm sure)  and I dread to think how many tax paying dollars went into paying off his other lady-friends.  Must've been a nice little earner to sleep with the President!

ALSO, a good man does not lie or ask someone else to lie under oath.  

Some moral icon he was!

As for Hilary - what kind of lame arsed bint hangs around with a man who treats her like that?  Oh yes...the ambitious kind...

*GASP!*  I'm so controversial!   ;)

p.s.  I am an illiterate ****.  I should've spelt it perjury in my last post, but apparently I canna spell for toffee.  oops.

:s03

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So Odin

What are your World Peace Plans then?

Would you like to share them with us?

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I don't believe there is any solution - there will never be 'true' world peace, just 'acceptable' levels of violence at best.

Acceptable on a global scale (according to governments) not a personal scale (according to a singlular person).

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With the actions that the USA is taking, the worldpeace can be in a great danger. I even read something in the newspaper that USA is concidering about using A-bombs.

Some people even think that the USA is trying to take over the world. But I think that is all some big gossip.

But I think that the USA could better stop her actions.  >:(

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pssst.  The US is the worlds only remaining 'superpower', with one of the biggest slices of the economic cake.  I'd say it has already 'taken over the world' - a statement in itself which is pretty laughable.  (Who are they? 'Greys'?!)

I've been a bit brassed off with how hard Europe is on the states.  All this uproar about the steel tax for example - I don't blame him for putting a tax on steel imports.  If 40k of our population had lost their jobs overnight you can bet Crony Blair would be bumping EXTRA tax on ours.  The Bushman has to look after his own country first. If there was a recession in America you can bet your backsides that the UK/EU would feel it.  The global economy would be *****ed - especially after Sep 11th when consumers are extra cautious.  

America physically occupies a HUGE chunk of earth, with a HUGE chunk of the worlds population.  We (UK/EU/ASIA) are HUGELY dependent on them both financially and militarily - we can't leech off of them forever without giving them opportunity to keep themselves healthy now and then.  

Support works both ways.  Perhaps if Crony got his heid oot of The Bushmans **** for 5 minutes he'd be able to see what's painfully clear to anyone with half a brain.  

Oops.  ranting again...

;):su

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'lori fitsherface' was actually Paula Jones - knew I'd get there in the end!

;):)

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GIZZIE,

My peace plans? Wel, not the USA bombing everyone that isn't with them. My plans is that there is another equality in the world. Not one supperpower that is casting it's dark shadow over the world. If Europe finally becomes something with power peace in the world will improve.

The balance is gone and that's the whole problem. The balance between the Sowjet union and the USA was different that wasn't a balance that was playing a war with other countries. (Korea.....)

Odin S.

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Odin,

That's the second time you mentioned the U.S. attacking everyone that isn't with them. Can you give any examples? and by examples I don't mean attacking countries that are in a conflict with the U.S., such as Iraq.

I do share your opinion that the balance of global power has shifted towards the U.S., literally making the balance of power UNBALANCED. We are in agreement there.

However, and this isn't directed at just you Odin, there has been mentioned many times around the media and even in this thread references about 'world peace'. Anyone who actually believes world peace can be achieved, or that everyone on Earth will be equal is an idiot.

So Odin, I'm in total agreement with you that the U.S. has too much influence in the world, representing a lack of balance. But I disagree with you that the U.S. is attacking everyone that's not with them. Where are your examples?

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Homer,

well... uhm. I didn't say what I meant there.. I didn't knew how to put it right. But you are right, they are not just attacking everyone. But they ARE blaming countries that aren't completly like the USA. Northern Korea is totally unlike the USA and therefor they are wrong in the eyes of Mr. Bush and a lot of other countries. Not that I think that they are right but why can't they have the freedom of making superweapons like almost all bigger western countries did?

Odin S.

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I'm in agreement with homer here,I see no evidence of the claims you make about "the USA bombing everyone that isn't with them"

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Odin, you're right, what the hell was I thinking? Why don't the U.S. just stay out of global affairs and let anybody and everybody build nukes. That should create stability.

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Odin

I don't like Super Powers in general to be honest and I'm not so sure about a United States of Europe either - look at the mess Brussels have made and that's just the economy - imagine if they start talking war!!

By the way, are you having fun with the Euro?  We're having great fun with it here in France (NOT!!)

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Homer,

Not that I think that they are right but why can't they have the freedom of making superweapons like almost all bigger western countries did?

Odin S.

:o  How frightening an idea is that?

You're arguing for WORLD PEACE, yet you question why more countries can't make 'superweapons'?  You know what these weapons do?  What if a crackpot (like Osama say) got his paws on these weapons?  September 11th would be tame by comparison.  Eternity here we come...

At the risk of sounding like an aging hippy, THE BOMB is bad news.  The Bomb in the wrong hands?  You could kiss yer **** goodbye.

:s5  :s09

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Could you define "the wrong hands"?  To date whose hands have pushed buttons?

I rue the day The Bomb was ever invented, together with germ warfare (causes less fall out, I'm told).

Maybe I should be ruing the day Man got a brain!!

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At the moment "the wrong hands" is anybody who wishes to settle arguements with the sword, not with treaty.

Anybody who's subconcious does anything else but will these weapons not to be used.

Yes it is America that 'pushed' the button in the past, twice, but believe me, if they could, terrorists around the world would love to get their mits on the A-Bomb and if they did millions would die.

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