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vampirate

Miracles

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Miracles...

There have been millions of claims of Miracles over the last few hundred years, but only sixty or so have been recocgnised by the Catholic Church as being actual miracles.

So my question is:

What IS a miracle? Why do they happen? Can they be explained scientifically? And has anyone on here ever experienced one? Do you believe in them? If you do or don't then why?

Ok, who's first?

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Hmm, depends on your definition of a miracle. A parent looking on their newborn babe has a tendency to say "Look, my miracle baby", but there's nothing special about it. So perhaps a miracle is simply something good.

A miracle in the supernatural sense though, I believe they happen too. I believe Jesus rose from the dead, healed the sick, turned water to wine, fed thousands with only a few loaves of bread......

I believe in many of the miracles described in the Old Testament, the acts of God to save the Israelite nation.

I believe miracles happen today too. I believe people can be brought back from the brink of death. I believe people's diseases can be healed without explanation. I believe people survive plane crashes where there should be none.

In saying that though, I do not place my faith in those miracles, but in God who provides them.

I know there'll be many people here who will disagree with me, I'm just giving my opinion.

Regards, PA

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Hmm, depends on your definition of a miracle. A parent looking on their newborn babe has a tendency to say "Look, my miracle baby", but there's nothing special about it. So perhaps a miracle is simply something good.

A miracle in the supernatural sense though, I believe they happen too. I believe Jesus rose from the dead, healed the sick, turned water to wine, fed thousands with only a few loaves of bread......

I believe in many of the miracles described in the Old Testament, the acts of God to save the Israelite nation.

I believe miracles happen today too. I believe people can be brought back from the brink of death. I believe people's diseases can be healed without explanation. I believe people survive plane crashes where there should be none.

In saying that though, I do not place my faith in those miracles, but in God who provides them.

I know there'll be many people here who will disagree with me, I'm just giving my opinion.

Regards, PA

well if you believe in the miracles in the old testament than why not a miracle that happens today?

funny how God sent Jesus 2000 years ago and then nothing? miracles come and go, to provide people with a little sign of who is in charge. but as mankind becomes more advanced, mankind can disspell many things that happen with skeptisism and some kind of explanation. so miracles are special. most miracles are strictly personal, and not public. meaning only meant for you, not for something like mass conversion. some are though.

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So could Miracles be due to a strong belief? It's been proven somewhere or other that if you believe you are a lucky person and that good things happen to you, then they do. So if you have enough faith in your religion, so that you believed you can be healed from an illness, then maybe you do get cured because you really strongly believe you will be?

I certainly believe in Miracles, though i'm really not sure whether they should be explained through religion or science. I mean, the human mind really is a strange thing. But then so is religion... :hmm:

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We are surrounded by small everyday miracles.

My last one was a doozy.

My car was on E. I was broke. I did have a walmart gift card. So, I went to the Sam's club which has a gas station in it.

When I got there my car ran out of gas just as I pulled up to the pump.

I could of ran out at anytime before I got there. But, the good Lord let me run on fumes clean up to the pump.

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I've seen miracles and experienced many myself. So YES miracles definately happen and I Believe that they are from GOD. Maybe I'll list a few later or you can PM me and I'll tell u a few.

Peace

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I don't believe in miracles, how often does a dream come true?!!

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I'm not sure that I am a believer of miracles, I would have to see some proof. There again it also depends on what exactly is deemed to be a miracle.

Luck and chance are wonderful natural occurences.

Miracles...

There have been millions of claims of Miracles over the last few hundred years, but only sixty or so have been recocgnised by the Catholic Church as being actual miracles.

So my question is:

What IS a miracle? Why do they happen? Can they be explained scientifically? And has anyone on here ever experienced one? Do you believe in them? If you do or don't then why?

Ok, who's first?

Can you tell me of some of the miracles which have been recognised by the church?

Starting with the more recent.

I've seen miracles and experienced many myself. So YES miracles definately happen and I Believe that they are from GOD. Maybe I'll list a few later or you can PM me and I'll tell u a few.

Peace

Why are you being so secretive about the miracles you claim to have experienced yourself? or are you afraid some of us will discredit them?

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What IS a miracle?

a miracle is something AMAZING that happens to someone in extreme need...like a person who is paralized and was told could never move or walk again, starts moving and walking.

Why do they happen?

some say it happens throug faith, or to bring peopl to God ?

Can they be explained scientifically?

No.

And has anyone on here ever experienced one?

Not that i can't think of.

Do you believe in them?

Yes.

If you do or don't then why?

because they happen. How do you expalin babies surviving days in a row under garbage, till their found ?

Edited by baastetnoir

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It's a miracle we can comprehend the word miracle.

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...like a person who is paralized and was told could never move or walk again, starts moving and walking.

I've seen miracles happen and THAT is one of them which I saw within my own family. The doctors told the person to give up, there was no hope. Mum prayed to God. Within two years she started walking again. She walks still today. She is my mother. And that is just one of many.

Miracles DO happen.

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I'm not sure that I am a believer of miracles, I would have to see some proof. There again it also depends on what exactly is deemed to be a miracle.

Luck and chance are wonderful natural occurences.

Can you tell me of some of the miracles which have been recognised by the church?

Starting with the more recent.

Why are you being so secretive about the miracles you claim to have experienced yourself? or are you afraid some of us will discredit them?

err, any of you guys ever heard of Fatima, the biggest miracle since the Exodus? It as been recognised by the Vatican and it happened relatively recently (1917). I know a big deal about it and I'm willing to tell what happened if you don't mind.

Just a small intro:

70.000 witnesses

Hollywood-highest-budget special effects :w00t:

No one as ever been able to give the slighest plausible explanation for it.

It involves predictions

Mass convertions after that incident

Mass healing

Many events related to that miracle have happened till our days

Edited by :rollseyes:

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I think miracles are like opportunities, if you put yourself in a position to receive them, they will happen.

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err, any of you guys ever heard of Fatima, the biggest miracle since the Exodus? It as been recognised by the Vatican and it happened relatively recently (1917). I know a big deal about it and I'm willing to tell what happened if you don't mind.

Just a small intro:

70.000 witnesses

Hollywood-highest-budget special effects :w00t:

No one as ever been able to give the slighest plausible explanation for it.

It involves predictions

Mass convertions after that incident

Mass healing

Many events related to that miracle have happened till our days

True, no explanation as to the effects of the Sun on that day, Science has only theories.

The predictions have since been, and I quote the word "debunked" by the Vatican.

The Prophecies are described by the church as interpretations of what the children told.

Mass healing, no proof.

Mass conversions, because people wanted to believe.

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I've seen miracles happen and THAT is one of them which I saw within my own family. The doctors told the person to give up, there was no hope. Mum prayed to God. Within two years she started walking again. She walks still today. She is my mother. And that is just one of many.

Miracles DO happen.

doctors are mere humans, they can make mistakes and medicine still doesnt know much, actualy i was beeing exam9ined for more than a year in various hospitals and no doctor could tell why my body temperature is ALWAYS 0.6 celsius higher than normal, so your example doesnt sound like a miracle at all.

I find it kinda sad that people come to these forums, debunk all kind of things like ufos, ghosts, bigfoots and so on, when there are atleast some, even though unclear and doubtable, evidence, but blindly believe things like god or miracles when theres no proof at all. did you ever notice that when you see an alien, your dreaming or halucinating, when you see god or miracles or angels, your blessed,chosen and so on. :hmm:

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True, no explanation as to the effects of the Sun on that day, Science has only theories.

The predictions have since been, and I quote the word "debunked" by the Vatican.

The Prophecies are described by the church as interpretations of what the children told.

Mass healing, no proof.

Mass conversions, because people wanted to believe.

science has theories? like what? UFO's sending hollograms? - I've already heard that one. 70.000 people having exactly the same allucination at the same time - right..

"The predictions have since been, and I quote the word "debunked" by the Vatican.

The Prophecies are described by the church as interpretations of what the children told."

I believe in you and I didn't know about that but:

In 1941 the revealed 2 of the secrets the 1st one was an image from hell, the second one (remember the aparicion occurred in 1917) was a predicion of several events between which there were: end of WWI and start of WWII (of course u can be suspicious, WWII had already started by the time it was revealed); that the pope would suffer greatly (and we have: 1 pope who might have been murdered (the one before John Paul II), the pope john Paul II gets shoted in the hearth 2 times one of which he was visiting Fatima and survives miraculously, John Paul II suffers from Parkinson disease); there would come harsh times for the church (we have: pedophilia inside the Catholic Church; growing atheism; divergent groups inside the church); ascension of communism in Russia and that Russia "will spread its errors throughout the world"

even if u think it is bulls*** I don't know why would the vatican discredit publicly the predictions even if they knew they were false

"mass healing, no proof"

well, there were healings, wether they were due to divine intervention or the "placebo effect" that's another question but many medics, jornalists and scientist reported that people who were blind started seeing and people who couldn't walk started walking. and ever since then people who have gone in pilgrimage to Fatima have experienced cures that modern science can't explain.

"Mass conversions, because people wanted to believe."

True ^_^

and a conversion is not a miracle i just put it there for the ambience

however there were many jornalists at the local who were prepared to go away without seeing anything but they saw

about the miracle itself, they saw a strange cloud ovewr the tree were the children were, then there's something like a solar eclipse, then the sun starts spining and changing colours (looks like teletubies or something like that this part doesnt it :hmm: ), then the sun "gets out of its orbit and starts dancing" (somehow like a UFO but please do not make linkings between this two subjects <_< plz) then suddenly the sun starts falling in the direction of the earth people start running everywhere, there's a light like no other however the eyes don't get hurt, when it looks like everything is gona blow the sun goes back to its place and people say they start seeing falling what they describe as "angel's hair". Apart from that it had been raining cats and dogs and before this everyone was completely wet but aftyer the show they found out that their clothes were now dry

now how da hell do u explain this (remember there were 70.000 witnesses)

Edited by :rollseyes:

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I cannot explain the phenomenon of the sun witnessed that day, neither can scientists, what I'm saying is in your support, is that they can only theorise.

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Oh and as far as a pope suffering. Exactly how many popes have there been since then.

Law of averages?

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I cannot explain the phenomenon of the sun witnessed that day, neither can scientists, what I'm saying is in your support, is that they can only theorise.

neither did I want to criticize you, I was only emphasizing that even those theories are completely umplausibe :)

Oh and as far as a pope suffering. Exactly how many popes have there been since then.

Law of averages?

also true :yes: but what I want to express is that why would the vatican "debunk" those predictions if they are not contrary to the facts (again, if I was the pope and knew that they were false I would't make it public, why should I?)

BTW, here are not so bad sites:

http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/marian6.htm

http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/faq01.asp

Btw, did u know that after portuguese war with Spain, in 1640, they crowned the virgin mary as their queen allegedly because she had helped them in their battles, since then the portuguese didn't wore crowns because simbolicly they were only her stewards. that dinasty survived until 1910 when the republicans instaured an anti-clerical regime (just 7 years before Fatima)

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I think/believe the debunking has to do with the non-concecration of Russia. As it has never been done, nothing bad has become of the church. So they say that the predictions must have been false or misinterpreted. That is why their stance has changed.

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hmm.. ye u're right I forgot about it however it may have been unwise by the vatican to do so, nothing all that bad has happened to the church yet ;) (that was the third secret wasnt it?)

apart from this I'm usually quite skeptical I'm the kind of guy that if Jesus would be dancing naked in front of my eyes casting lightningbolts at everyone around him I still wouldn't believe

I only believe in miracles when there is no other logical explanation.

For example: someone can't walk, he prays god for a cure and 13 years later he gets cured unexplicably - I dont think it is a miracle. Why? Even if science can't explain it may be explained we just don't know why yet;

according to the Vatican (and it's also logical) it can only be a miracle if the effects are immediate or were predicted (like: a priest goes to you prays and u get healed instantaneously;

or "you will be shoted in your head but survive anyway" and it happens);

and when there is some divine sign or manifestation (maybe you wouldn't like if the doctor went to your house while you where sleeping and without notifying operates you saving you from death - it's a weak analogy but i think it is valid)

Edited by :rollseyes:

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As modern thinking humans with greater knowledge of the world, we automatically look for logical explanations. Unlike our forefathers who excepted what they saw or heard.

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Almost by definition, a miracle is an inexplicable event that can not be duplicated experimentally. That makes them very difficult to examine scientifically, unless they are things like stigmata.

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indeed, a "miracle" is in the eye of the beholder. people seek to explain things, and when they can not, and from their limited perspective it seems like the event is something rare, it becomes "a miracle". In other words, it is just another "fill the holes" explanation with no real validity.

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I dont think that it is just in the eye of the beholder, no one can explain away the Fatima, neither do I think that it is a simple fill in the holes explanation. I'm not a believer of Miracles but I think that that there is much to be learned about such phenomenon.

If only we had the knowledge?

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