Jesusfan Posted January 5, 2006 #1 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Just wondering if any of you were able to catch any part of the PBS special last night concerning the 3 Great Faiths of the West.. The company line being given out was that the major faiths , Judaism/Christianity/Islam, all believe in the same God, and that they are very close to each other in their major doctrines... As an Evagelical Christian, believe that they are FAR APART from each other in regards to major beliefs, as Christians believe that Jesus was/is the Son of God, God Incarnate, who cam e to earth as the Messiah, and whose death on Cross was atonement for all of our Sins... Both Judaism and Islam refuse all of the above, and Islam does say that jesus was a prophet, but that Muhhammed was the Greatest/Final prophet, and so his teachings/Koran/ supercedes those of Jesus and the Bible... Judaism does believe in the God and Father of Jesus Christ, but deny that their is a need to accept Jesus as the Jewish Messiah... Christians teach that one is saved totally by Grace of God, received by faith in Jesus Christ as their Messiah, both of the other Faiths teach a combination of doing good works, and in case of Islam, belief that Allah has already decreed those who are saved and those who are lost.. Judaism believes in Torah and OT, but denies the NT of Bible, while Muslims regard both OT/NT as corrupted, and that Koran is the "pure" version of Holy Scriptures.. With all of these Major differences, do they Really believe in Same God, and are close to being same Religion? Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted January 5, 2006 #2 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Just as we who follow Mithra accept that his father was Ahuru Mazda the God of the Zoroasterans and this was 300 years before the Christian religion came along. So what is so unusual about "linked" religions that are similar, worship the same god (at least partially) yet do not hold the same beliefs totally? You guys are only copy cats of other older religions and their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiaging Posted January 5, 2006 #3 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Just wondering if any of you were able to catch any part of the PBS special last night concerning the 3 Great Faiths of the West.. The company line being given out was that the major faiths , Judaism/Christianity/Islam, all believe in the same God, and that they are very close to each other in their major doctrines... As an Evagelical Christian, believe that they are FAR APART from each other in regards to major beliefs, as Christians believe that Jesus was/is the Son of God, God Incarnate, who cam e to earth as the Messiah, and whose death on Cross was atonement for all of our Sins... Both Judaism and Islam refuse all of the above, and Islam does say that jesus was a prophet, but that Muhhammed was the Greatest/Final prophet, and so his teachings/Koran/ supercedes those of Jesus and the Bible... Judaism does believe in the God and Father of Jesus Christ, but deny that their is a need to accept Jesus as the Jewish Messiah... Christians teach that one is saved totally by Grace of God, received by faith in Jesus Christ as their Messiah, both of the other Faiths teach a combination of doing good works, and in case of Islam, belief that Allah has already decreed those who are saved and those who are lost.. Judaism believes in Torah and OT, but denies the NT of Bible, while Muslims regard both OT/NT as corrupted, and that Koran is the "pure" version of Holy Scriptures.. With all of these Major differences, do they Really believe in Same God, and are close to being same Religion? Any comments? Christianity and Judaism believe in the true God of the bible. Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah, and that is their big mistake. Islam worships a false god called Allah, that does not exist. The description of Allah in the qu'ran is different from the description of God in the bible. Allah Unknowable: Allah is so transcendent, so exalted, that no man can ever personally know Allah. Nonpersonal: Allah is not to be understood as a person. This would lower him to the level of man. Nonspirit: The idea that Allah is a person or a spirit is considered blasphemous and demeans the exalted One. Unitarian: The Koran specifically denies that Allah is a father, that Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Spirit is God. Unlimited: The Koran describes Allah as able to do anything, anytime, anyplace, anywhere. He is not even limited by his own nature. Capricious: Allah in the Koran is totally capricious and untrustworthy. He is not bound by his nature or his word. No Love: The concept of Allah having feelings toward man is foreign to Islamic teaching. That would reduce Allah to a mere man and is blasphemous to a Muslim. Passive in history: Allah does not personally enter into human history. He deals with the world through his word, prophets, and angels. He does not personally deal with man. No attributes: The so-called 99 attributes of Allah are all negative, what he is not like. No positive attributes are listed. Works: There is no savior or intercessor or concept of grace in the Koran. Jehovah [The one true God, of the bible] Knowable: Jesus Christ came into the world so we could know God personally (John 17:3). Personal: The God of the Bible is spoken of as a person with intellect, emotion, and a will. Spirit: That God is a spirit was taught by Jesus Christ himself in John 4:24. Trinitarian: The Bible reveals God as One in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All share equally the divine nature. Limited: The biblical God is limited by His own nature. He cannot lie or contradict Himself. Trustworthy: Because God is always true to His nature, he is completely trustworthy and consistent. Love: The biblical God's chief attribute is love as shown in such places as John 3:16. He has feelings for his creatures, especially man. Active in history: In the incarnation, God himself enters history and acts to bring about man's salvation. Attributes: The Bible tells us what God is and what He is not. Grace: The God of the Bible provides a free salvation for man through a Savior who acts as an intercessor between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5). Also the muslim is not sure that he will go to heaven. The doctrine of having to earn your salvation by good works, in Islam, leaves the muslim always uncertain that his good works out weigh his bad works. The muslim is not certain he will go to heaven and thinks he might go to hell. The only (false) certainty that a muslim falsely thinks he has of going to heaven is if he dies in a Jihad holy war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesusfan Posted January 5, 2006 Author #4 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Just as we who follow Mithra accept that his father was Ahuru Mazda the God of the Zoroasterans and this was 300 years before the Christian religion came along. So what is so unusual about "linked" religions that are similar, worship the same god (at least partially) yet do not hold the same beliefs totally? You guys are only copy cats of other older religions and their beliefs. Well.. Other then the fact that there is no historical proof that Mithra ever was a real person, or that Ahuru Mazda ever existed, the Christian faith was built upon Jesus Christ, and the OT... Christianity is the consumation of the OT... So it can literally trace roots back to Abraham, and to the root os Isreal and the Jewish peoples... So Christianity had no need to ever "copy" from any other religion, since it was already grounded and rooted into the one true religion on earth at that time, Judaism, and jesus was the completeion and summing up/fulfillment of the OT promises concerning the coming jewish messiah, who would be the messiah of not just the Jews, but a light unto the Gentiles, as God would be called by both jews and gentile believers in jesus Christ as their God and father.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted January 5, 2006 #5 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Well.. Other then the fact that there is no historical proof that Mithra ever was a real person, or that Ahuru Mazda ever existed, the Christian faith was built upon Jesus Christ, and the OT... And you can prove that Jesus ever existed or that Jehovah ever existed? Please, put forth the information on this....you may be able to convert the whole world, else you will show that your religion is just so much mythology! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverCougar Posted January 5, 2006 #6 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Anti... Allah is just the arabian word for "god" So yes, they worship the same god as the judaic and christians worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnuKabal Posted January 5, 2006 #7 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yeah Allah means "the one god" just like Yahweh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1667832 Posted January 6, 2006 #8 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think the basic theme behind the three faiths is the same. They have different certain doctrines, but at the root, the ideology, the idea of peace, is the same. They also did branch off the same tree. Anti aging - man can personally know Allah. The prophets (in Islamic belief) Jesus, Muhammed, Noah, etc, are all close friends of Allah. This is mentioned in the Qur'an. Allah is bound by His Word as he will not commit any injustice against man. This is also mentioned in Qur'an. The 99 Names of Allah explain His grace, etc. And Allah is NOT passive in history, as everything that happens is simply by His Will. Please come with the right information so as to prevent misconceptions. Thanks. God Bless. Aale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesusfan Posted January 6, 2006 Author #9 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think the basic theme behind the three faiths is the same. They have different certain doctrines, but at the root, the ideology, the idea of peace, is the same. They also did branch off the same tree. Anti aging - man can personally know Allah. The prophets (in Islamic belief) Jesus, Muhammed, Noah, etc, are all close friends of Allah. This is mentioned in the Qur'an. Allah is bound by His Word as he will not commit any injustice against man. This is also mentioned in Qur'an. The 99 Names of Allah explain His grace, etc. And Allah is NOT passive in history, as everything that happens is simply by His Will. Please come with the right information so as to prevent misconceptions. Thanks. God Bless. Aale. There is however no term for Allah as being God of love within the Koen... Allah is also said to be unknowable by Man, as He is above mankind.. That type of God is foreign to the Covenant making God found in the OT/NT, as that God showed up His great love by sending His Son, jesus Christ, to Earth to die as atonement for our Sins.. Since Islam denies original sin has infected all of us, Muslims do not hold to the need for a sacrifice as atonement for own sins... Both Judasim and Islam hold to a view that good works will be meritorial to a person , in an attempt to earn reward of erternal life... Judaism, at least more liberal branches, even deny a personal afterlife, more like have the Presense of God in this life, little regard to a life after death... THE point that will forever seperate these 3 faiths is the person and work Of Jesus Christ... Judaism as him as a false messiah, islam as a mere Prophet, beneath the person of Mohhammed, yet Christians see Him as God Incarnate, Son of God, One who died for Sins of mankind, and who was raised back to life by God... So though these Faiths may have some similiar points of reference, they all disagree with each other as to nature of God, of Man, and how to become right with God... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1667832 Posted January 6, 2006 #10 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Allah can be knowable by mankind. Recall in my earlier post how I said that Jesus, Noah, Moses, are noted as intimate friends of Allah, thus knowing Him. The Qur'an was sent down so that the people may know Allah. And Jesus was never under Muhammed, as they are both equal in the Islamic beliefs. "And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous." (6:85) Jesus simply came before Muhammed. They are both however, great men and equal in God's Eyes. I agree that these ideas are the things that divide the faiths, however, it does not mean that there is a huge rift, as they have the same basic ideals. They basically revolve around the 10 Commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted January 6, 2006 #11 Share Posted January 6, 2006 DOn't worry Jesusfan, I've said the same things before. People like pidgeon-holing us all together. It makes it easier for skeptics to blame a Christian for the act of a muslim terrorist, or a Muslim for the Crusades ok, maybe not quite. I don't see them as the same at all, whatever the case. Regards, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted January 6, 2006 #12 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Considering that Judaism is nothing more than a belated copy of Zoroasterism (which predates it by several centuries) and Christianity is nothing more than a belated copy of Mithraism and other "Savior-God" religions, the matter that seperates the 3 Abrahamic religons is of no real importance. Mythology is mythology is mythology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverCougar Posted January 6, 2006 #13 Share Posted January 6, 2006 DOn't worry Jesusfan, I've said the same things before. People like pidgeon-holing us all together. It makes it easier for skeptics to blame a Christian for the act of a muslim terrorist, or a Muslim for the Crusades ok, maybe not quite. I don't see them as the same at all, whatever the case. Regards, PA Skeptics arn't the only ones who "Pidgeon hole" people... keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted January 6, 2006 #14 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Skeptics arn't the only ones who "Pidgeon hole" people... keep that in mind. Well with that being said I agree. I thought Pagans had the same goddess's and gods. But they vary a lot don't they. I have missed you SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesusfan Posted January 6, 2006 Author #15 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Considering that Judaism is nothing more than a belated copy of Zoroasterism (which predates it by several centuries) and Christianity is nothing more than a belated copy of Mithraism and other "Savior-God" religions, the matter that seperates the 3 Abrahamic religons is of no real importance. Mythology is mythology is mythology. I agree with you that Zoroasterism is a mythological religion, but Judaism arose out of the setting that God, real True God, intervened and spoke directly to a man, Abram, who though following flase pagen gods, was chosen by God to receive True religion... The real God made a Covenant through Abraham and than through Moses with the Jews in the OT, and than through His Son, jesus Christ, in the NT, which made a Covenant between both jews and Gentiles and True God... Since both jews and Christians believe Only that real God ever spoke to Abraham/Moses, and Christians believe He spoke His final time in jesus Christ, other religions like Zoroaterism/Buddism/Islam/Hinduism are all faiths that come not from the One true God, but from sincere men trying to reach out to the Unknown God... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted January 6, 2006 #16 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I find your little spiel to be arrogant, condescending and rather pathetic. Your main argument is “My God is the True God, I don’t have any proof that he ever existed, but you will just have to accept my word, because I have faith that my religion is the one true religion and I am a Christian and as such I am an expert on all religions, even though the other religions have as much proof for their gods as I do…and..and if you don’t believe me, I am just going to keep on ranting about how my god is the only god!” As I said rather pathetic, since your god is only mythological! I know your god is mythological, because a true god such as Ahuru Mazda and his son the Lord Mithra would never harm their creations, because they love them. Unlike your god Jehovah, who spent 98% of the OT destroying humanity in one horrid way after another. That shows that Jehovah can’t be the true god, he hates mankind instead of loving them. Too bad you never knew the love of Lord Mithra, but it isn’t too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyr Posted January 6, 2006 #17 Share Posted January 6, 2006 yet Christians see Him as God Incarnate, Son of God The problem that the Quran has with this belief is that if god is to have a son, then there are two gods, since god's son would also be a god, in fact god does not have any children, that's for man to have. The belief in god having sons or daughters violates the basis of monotheism as far as Islam is concerned. I agree with you that Zoroasterism is a mythological religion Zoroasterism is not a mythological religion, it was and still is to some extend, the religion of the Persians. Zoroaster really existed as a person and a prophet with a book called Avesta. Zoroasterism is one the most ancient monotheist religions with Ahura Mazda as the sole and unique god. There is the concept of good and evil and there is a devil (Ahriman), just like there are good angels such as Anahita and Mehr and many others. In fact this religion has a lot of similarities to the three Abrahamic religions in its belief system and is not based on mythology at all; unless of course we believe all religions are mythological! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1667832 Posted January 6, 2006 #18 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Zephyr, can you please explain the faith some more, it does sound rather similar to the ideas of the Abrahamic faiths, just different names for God, etc. It sounds interesting, I'd like to get to know about it. Also, just because a faith is different, does not make it mythology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyKade Posted January 7, 2006 #19 Share Posted January 7, 2006 zoroastrinism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1667832 Posted January 7, 2006 #20 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Thanks so much. The faith is amazing and some of its beliefs are related to the Abrahamic religions; its stunning. Good information. I wouldnt call this faith mythology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadal Posted January 7, 2006 #21 Share Posted January 7, 2006 (edited) Christianity and Judaism believe in the true God of the bible. Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah, and that is their big mistake. Islam worships a false god called Allah, that does not exist. The description of Allah in the qu'ran is different from the description of God in the bible. Allah Unknowable: Allah is so transcendent, so exalted, that no man can ever personally know Allah. Nonpersonal: Allah is not to be understood as a person. This would lower him to the level of man. Nonspirit: The idea that Allah is a person or a spirit is considered blasphemous and demeans the exalted One. Unitarian: The Koran specifically denies that Allah is a father, that Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Spirit is God. Unlimited: The Koran describes Allah as able to do anything, anytime, anyplace, anywhere. He is not even limited by his own nature. Capricious: Allah in the Koran is totally capricious and untrustworthy. He is not bound by his nature or his word. No Love: The concept of Allah having feelings toward man is foreign to Islamic teaching. That would reduce Allah to a mere man and is blasphemous to a Muslim. Passive in history: Allah does not personally enter into human history. He deals with the world through his word, prophets, and angels. He does not personally deal with man. No attributes: The so-called 99 attributes of Allah are all negative, what he is not like. No positive attributes are listed. Works: There is no savior or intercessor or concept of grace in the Koran. Jehovah [The one true God, of the bible] Knowable: Jesus Christ came into the world so we could know God personally (John 17:3). Personal: The God of the Bible is spoken of as a person with intellect, emotion, and a will. Spirit: That God is a spirit was taught by Jesus Christ himself in John 4:24. Trinitarian: The Bible reveals God as One in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All share equally the divine nature. Limited: The biblical God is limited by His own nature. He cannot lie or contradict Himself. Trustworthy: Because God is always true to His nature, he is completely trustworthy and consistent. Love: The biblical God's chief attribute is love as shown in such places as John 3:16. He has feelings for his creatures, especially man. Active in history: In the incarnation, God himself enters history and acts to bring about man's salvation. Attributes: The Bible tells us what God is and what He is not. Grace: The God of the Bible provides a free salvation for man through a Savior who acts as an intercessor between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5). Also the muslim is not sure that he will go to heaven. The doctrine of having to earn your salvation by good works, in Islam, leaves the muslim always uncertain that his good works out weigh his bad works. The muslim is not certain he will go to heaven and thinks he might go to hell. The only (false) certainty that a muslim falsely thinks he has of going to heaven is if he dies in a Jihad holy war. You're brave enough to tell the muslims that their god doesn't exist aren't you? Well, guess what? I don't -believe- in any god. And the Christians would be the last god I'll ever believe in. Sorry pal. Hate to break it to you, but all religion is 'mythical' Sorry. Edited January 7, 2006 by Nadal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Paranoid Android Posted January 7, 2006 #22 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I find your little spiel to be arrogant, condescending and rather pathetic. Your main argument is “My God is the True God, I don’t have any proof that he ever existed, but you will just have to accept my word, because I have faith that my religion is the one true religion and I am a Christian and as such I am an expert on all religions, even though the other religions have as much proof for their gods as I do…and..and if you don’t believe me, I am just going to keep on ranting about how my god is the only god!” As I said rather pathetic, since your god is only mythological! I know your god is mythological, because a true god such as Ahuru Mazda and his son the Lord Mithra would never harm their creations, because they love them. Unlike your god Jehovah, who spent 98% of the OT destroying humanity in one horrid way after another. That shows that Jehovah can’t be the true god, he hates mankind instead of loving them. Too bad you never knew the love of Lord Mithra, but it isn’t too late. Not to start an argument, but you have as much proof of your God too......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyr Posted January 7, 2006 #23 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Zephyr, can you please explain the faith some more, it does sound rather similar to the ideas of the Abrahamic faiths, Our friend FreyKade beat me to it, Abqurah! Abqurah? I know what that means because it's a Persian word. As for the photo in the article of Frey's link, that's a Zoroastrian fire temple in Yazd, central Iran. I have visited it and the costodian of the temple told me that the fire burning in the temple is over 2000 years old, and eventhough it has been transferred between temples in its long history, it has never been put out. The existance of fire symbolises life and movement and its non-existance, death and immobility. The costodian's main job was to make sure it keeps on burning. I am less sure though about the claims made in the article that Zoroastrism is not a monotheist religion, especially when that claim is mostly based on Greek philosophy which was of course far from being familiar with the concept of monotheism. Since only AhuraMazda is the unique god and that's what the Zoroastrians believe, it's hard to accept that the religion is a polytheist one, even at its very roots and origins. Figures such as Anahita are angels of AhuraMazda (Anahita is the guardian angel of water), they are not gods or godesses. Nontheless, this ancient religion has not been immune to pollution and there have been off-shoots of it that have elevated some of these angels to gods or god-like figures and have built a belief around that. Indeed, the basic ideas in Zoroastrinism are quite similar to the Abrahamic religions; after all they are all monotheist religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1667832 Posted January 8, 2006 #24 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I agree. Its amazing because in the article it says that they believe that when they die and everyone is being judged, they have to cross a very thin bridge over fire or something. I've read this in Islamic texts as well. Also, the idea of there being demons, etc, is all very similar. I think it is a monotheistic religion, one to be taken very seriously as well, because it keeps many ideals that are similar to Abrahamic faiths. There are just different names, like Allah is a different name for God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sultanmuratova Posted January 8, 2006 #25 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I believe that the 3 faiths are similar as well. same god, same principles, just different guidelines. but some people dont like it when their faith is compared with another because they like to see their faith as unique and therefore the right religion. when faiths are compared and some things are found similar, it can give them doubts if their faith is really the real 'path'. and when confronted with these ideas instead of giving good arguments they just keep repeating themselves saying their religion is right and the other are wrong. this is sad because it really doesnt matter what faith you follow, as long as you live a good life and be good to your surroundings. isnt that what all faiths preach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now