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Fluffybunny

Canada's high court allows Sikh daggers in sc

34 posts in this topic

After all of the complaint by Canadians in regards to US gun control, this article seems rather odd.

Th is he best part: "Charron said the boy had no history of violence, and rejected the idea that kirpans are inherently dangerous. "

...okay, I don't know what else you would call a daggar if not dangerous...

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Multiculturalism and religious freedom trumped safety concerns in a Canadian Supreme Court decision on Thursday that will allow orthodox Sikh students to carry traditional daggers to school.

In its decision, the court noted that Sikh orthodoxy requires the wearing of the daggers, known as kirpans, even though they are banned from airplanes and some courtrooms.

"Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society," Justice Louise Charron wrote in reasons for the decision after a court case that involved 12-year-old Gurbaj Singh Multani, who was prevented from carrying his kirpan at a Montreal school.

"If some students consider it unfair that Gurbaj Singh may wear his kirpan to school while they are not allowed to have knives in their possession, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instill in their students this value that is ... at the very foundation of our democracy."

Kirpans are already allowed in Ontario after a lower court order, as is the case in some other parts of Canada. Thursday's ruling now opens the door to the practice, with possible restrictions, across the country.

Canada banned kirpans on airplanes after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States. Some courts ban them as well, although Sikhs attending the Supreme Court hearing were allowed to wear them.

Charron said aircraft were unique environments, but schools had the ability to better control different situations.

Multani's school had originally allowed him to carry his kirpan in a wooden sheath sewn inside a cloth envelope inside his clothing. But the school board overturned this, and the boy's father turned to the courts.

His kirpan is about 20 cm (8 inches) long, with the blade roughly half that length, but kirpans can be longer.

The Quebec government argued unsuccessfully for zero tolerance for weapons in school, and some parents also opposed the idea.

"My first reaction as a parent is a feeling of insecurity," Claude Bouchard, a board member of the Quebec Federation of Parents' Committees, told Reuters after the decision.

"As a parent, is the life and safety of a child more important than religious freedom? I think so."

Charron said the boy had no history of violence, and rejected the idea that kirpans are inherently dangerous. She also noted that schools contained other objects that could be used as weapons, such as scissors or baseball bats.

Orthodox Sikhs have been been required to carry kirpans since the 1600s. Some say the original purpose was for defense but many insist it is not a weapon.

Multani is now 16 and about to graduate from school, but he told reporters in the foyer of the Supreme Court the battle was worth it.

"Everybody should stand for their rights. I got it. I'm happy," he said, wearing a black turban and surrounded by numerous Sikh supporters.

Sikhs struggled for the right to wear turbans while in uniform with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. That episode was decided by the federal government in 1990.

Around 250,000 Sikhs live in Canada, and about 10 percent of them are considered orthodox.

In the United States, a federal appeals court allowed kirpans in California, but the U.S. Supreme Court has not decreed a national policy.

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:huh:

His kirpan is about 20 cm (8 inches) long, with the blade roughly half that length, but kirpans can be longer.

That's a good sized blade yet. Still long enough to hit the heart in one thrust, and more then enough to slice into someone.

Those weapons shouldn't be allowed within schools. Even if these kids don't use their own daggers, who's to say they won't be stolen by a kid, it's a knife sheath that can be easily taken out and used on another.

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I agree Kratos and Fluffs, fully.

I'm all for religious tolerance, i feel that people should be able to follow their religious practices fully BUT, that's as long as it doesn't interefer with the laws of the country they reside in, especially if you are not native to that country.

The problem with Canada is that it caters to those of other societies, religions etc before that of it's own people. I for one would be very upset if when i was in high school i knew the guy sitting next to me had a 20 cm blade tucked under his shirt.

If your religion interferes with the laws of a country you are not native to, then tough luck really. The laws should not be changed just on the basis of political correctness.

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The guy has his kirpan swoed so it wont come out the the holder.

~Thanato

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I'm all for religious tolerance, i feel that people should be able to follow their religious practices fully BUT, that's as long as it doesn't interefer with the laws of the country they reside in, especially if you are not native to that country.

Totally agree.

Kirpans"The Kirpan is the ceremonial dagger carried by Sikhs, as a reminder to fight for justice and against oppression. Kirpans range in size from large ceremonial swords to tiny knives worn around the neck. It is required that all Sikhs wear the kirpan, even in bed. The dagger version is more popular and better known. It is essentially a backward curving dagger, specializing at cutting the throat."

They should at least be blunted or made out of plastic. :hmm: I personally believe it should be removed in public schools. Keep em' at home.

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The guy has his kirpan swoed so it wont come out the the holder.

~Thanato

Does that mean that a kid could have a .357 if he sews it in his pants?

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Come on Canada what society lets schoolkids take knives to school, your getting to liberal in your outlook reguarding Religion. Im going to agree with the Yanks that you are getting to soft nowerdays , whats happened?

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a kid who brings a gun to school normaly has the intent to harm or threaten. Were as the Kirpan is something that is not used for violance.

I agree with the Supream Court on this one.

~Thanato

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Posted (edited)

Edit, Post Removed.

Continue to needlessly flame and troll and you will not contribute here much longer.

BurnSide

Edited by BurnSide

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The 'Kid' is finishing high school and is going to Collage. I might not like religion but i will respect there belifs.

~Thanato

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I'm known as an American basher but i think I'm going to be known as a Canadian basher as well, your Country sucks if it allows weapons in school , a step backwards im afraid.

Kids should not be forced to put Religion before their schooling , everybody should be on the same level. When they leave school then they decide if carrying a knife is a religious thing to do.

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Sure Canada lets a weapon into the class room. In my art room there is this pribar that can be used to smash peoples heads in. And it can be used to stab people. Should that be removed from school? The kids kirpan is not used as a weapon it is required by his religion to carry one. and it is normaly kepts out of site and away from grabby hands.

~Thanato

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Sure Canada lets a weapon into the class room. In my art room there is this pribar that can be used to smash peoples heads in. And it can be used to stab people. Should that be removed from school? The kids kirpan is not used as a weapon it is required by his religion to carry one. and it is normaly kepts out of site and away from grabby hands.

~Thanato

Your defense is, a school object can do the same damage, so they should allow knives in the school because it makes no difference? :blink:

So because in the chemistry room there are chemcials to put together a bomb, I should be able to walk around that school with a C4 vest? ;)

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No weapon should be allowed inside the school. But the karpin is not a weapon it is a cermonial relgous peice. Just as the pribar is a tool for work.

~Thanato

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Terrifying. I don't care about the religious beleifs behind carrying weapons, nobody should be given the right to take a weapon into school.

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Tell that to Police OFficers.

~Thanato

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Tell that to Police OFficers.

~Thanato

... You are actually comparing people sworn to uphold the law, with many hours of training and schooling compared to some teenage kid that wants to wear a dagger around school? :huh:

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No, and he dosnt want to, he has to as appart of his religion. A police officer can loose there fire arm by it being grabbed by a kid out of the holster and then it could be fired by the kid.

~Thanato

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Oh, Canada...Well, it is unfortunate that I do not know any more of this song...

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O Canada!

Our home and native land!

True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,

The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

~Thanato

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I want to carry my cat in a holster.

He is good company, and could fend off mice with issues.

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No, and he dosnt want to, he has to as appart of his religion. A police officer can loose there fire arm by it being grabbed by a kid out of the holster and then it could be fired by the kid.

~Thanato

Do you know what that knife is used for in their religion? It is for the sole purpose of protecting those he feels are weaker or in need.

5. Kirpan - A saber to be used as a last measure of protection in case the need to defend oneself, or another, arises.

Source

So if he feels that someone or himself is in need of protection, he has to whip out that dagger and use it.

This is from the basics of Sikhism.

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Posted (edited)

Hey if someone was under attack anywere and i had a knife on me, i would pull it out and use it as a detterant.

And as you said its not an offencive weapon.

~Thanato

Edited by Thanato

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Hey if someone was under attack anywere and i had a knife on me, i would pull it out and use it as a detterant.

And as you said its not an offencive weapon.

~Thanato

So then, would it be fine, in your opinion, for all students to carry daggers around for protection? :)

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I'm gonna go with Kratos on this one, I don't think a teenager's knife (even if it is for religious reasons) and a police officers weapon are comparable.

I also don't think the fact you might be attacked is justifation for having a knife in school. If it is, then everyone can use that excuse to bring anything from penknives to kitchenknives to school, because they might need it to defend themselves (even though the chances of being stabbed increase when people's are allowed to bring them).

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