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Kryso

Who really rules this world? God or Satan?

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Who really rules this world? God or Satan?

Let me explain. I have done lengthy research in order to make my latest book (for I am a writer) believable. About a man being approached by the Devil, and having the Devils side of the story told - the biblical message from his point of view. But that’s besides the point. What I mean is, in my long research I found many strange scriptures, that, quite frankly point to Satan being in control of earth! Because (it says) God gave him a certain amount of time to prove answers to his question!

“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, the one misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.” - Revelation 12:9

Jesus talking, said in John 14:30 - “For the ruler of the world is coming: And he has no hold on me.” This couldn’t be with reference to his father surely?

“Among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.” – 2 Corinthians 4:4

“The whole world is lying in the power of the Wicked One” – 1 John 5:19

Here are just a few scriptures I found while researching. My question again is would the bible refer to God as the Wicked one? Does this go some way in explaining why the world is so full of violence and hatred?

And I found one more interesting scripture in 2 Timothy 3:2, which I believe, talks about what will come about, because the Devil is in control. It reads:

“For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self control, fierce, with out love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pried, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.”

Does this not completely describe the world we now live in?

And don’t worry, I’m not some religious nut trying to convert anyone, I just thought it would be an interesting subject to gain everyone’s view on?

(Scriptures taken from a modern day version, in easy to understand English, rather than art, thus, hither, and such like!)

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of cousre, i do! grin2.gif

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I remember reading somewhere that Satan will rule the world until the second coming of Christ. I don't know if it is true or not. There is both good in the world and bad so this is a tough call.

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I'm not overly religious (Church of England...joking wink2.gif ), but I do believe there is a "god". And I suppose, you can't really have one without the other, so the devil, or whatever, probably exists, too.

As for who rules the world?

The world is full of sh*tty people doing sh*tty things to others. But at crucial moments of history, humanity's better side seems to prevail. Maybe god has the edge.

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I can't bring myself to believe in a God or a Devil.

Sorry........ sad.gif

I do believe that there is a universal force out there which we can tap into.....and this force has positive and negative elements. Some weak people find it easier to be cold, cruel and negative - thus increasing the level - for energy cannot be destroyed........ Then there are others who give love & support and give out positive energies......

Ok, that actually sounded better in my head..........but you know what I mean.. wacko.gif

Hammy x x x

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Sarkypi, You might like Conversation with the Devil by Ray Wylie Hubbard. That song reflects pretty much what you have said.

The song reminds me of the Divine Comedy. Check it out if you can find the time.

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neither of them rule because their actions are dictated by a shadow Government thumbsup.gif

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I agree with the world having a force attached to it that we can alter and shape to our choosing, either through our actions or by magik, and that the force is kept in balance usually, all I think that is happening at the moment is that the balance is slightly tipped to the negative and that is why the world is like it is.

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Posted (edited)

I actually have to tip in On the side of God vs The devil. I Have always believed that there is pure good and pure evil. You cannot have one side without the other.

Sadly for us right now our universe is the battle ground for forces on both sides. As to who wins well, God does of course...but the damage done form the fight can be seen all over.

I don't want to offend any one or cram my beliefs on anyone but I cannot buy a non-intellegent cosmic force.

Edited by thepsychoticseaotter

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Balance.......Without the term of balance there is noting in this earth seems to be right......Good wub.gif and Evil devil.gif part of circle of life.... wacko.gif

They both(God and the Devil)having theire fun....

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I've often wondered if God would ever forgive Satan and let him back in Heaven (if he were to change his ways). I havn't read the Bible much, so I don't really know if that would ever be possible. I mean with Satan trying to overthrow God and all......

God owns the planet, Satan is just renting. That's my opinion.

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That's actually in an interesting idea...never thought of that...

It depends if you're looking at new testament god, or the old one...the old one was a really ruthless guy, who killed millions of people, and who generally kept you on his black list if you got there...

However, the new, trendier, updated version seemed to be willing to forgive people, whatever their sins, so long as you regreted them, and actually did want forgivness from a religious standpoint...(course, depends which person you're asking about that...but it's an arguement I often hear about why I should convert from athiesm, because God will still love me).

You'd actually think that, given mass murderers can repent of their sins if they want when, to my knowledge, the devil hasn't actually killed that many people...if anyone (just really messed them about) while God has supposedly killed millions upon millions, that the devil could beg forgivness for his sins....after all, compaired to God, he hasn't really sinned all that much.

That, also, never occured to me before, and does actually make me wonder who the villain in the story is...to me, the devil represents personal choice, rather than evil, and was cast out of heaven for going against god...not for being evil, but for going against the mainstream, and the 'order of things', most likely to stop the populace of the time trying to overthrow the ruling class.

But, as for who rules the world...well...since I'm an athiest, my answer would be neither...but draw your own conclusions. Looking at the way things are, if God runs the world, he's an absentee landlord.

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It has always sounded like a father-son argument to me. Parents/Gaurdians often get angry with their children over the choices they make, whether its their sexuality, occupation, friends, or plain rebeliousness (is that a word?).

It's not that it's harder to do what's right, it's just not as much fun- Ray Wylie Hubbard

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Here you go

The internet is cool. I found the lyrics to that song I was telling you about, Sarkypi.

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Fruity is back!!! Sugar, do you need me to come over and change your pampers, and tuck you in. I hate replying this crap, but in your case it is a pleasure.

Reese said it best earlier. Take her advice.

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Generally all the things we know are balanced. Sometimes, the scales tip in favour of either party, but never to the degree of domination. This is what divides good and bad.

MY OPINION'S FOR THE NON-EXISTANCE OF GOOD AND BAD AS SEPARATE ENTITIES:

So basically, there's no seperate good and bad. 'Good' things do happen very often, as do things that are 'bad'. They can even happen at the same time. Generally good things, which sometimes are caused by us, and we feel like heroes, and the bad things we do, we normally have to find a scapegoat for.

For examples.. Did God or Satan influence.....

1. A volcano creates new, but destroys some in the process. Good or bad?

2. Earthquakes caused by the movement of tectonic plates, both destroy and create new. Good or bad?

3. Floods creates new fertile land, but destroy as well. Good or bad?

Of course, sometimes something bad/good happens, which turns out to be not so bad/good. And of course, something that is bad or good can always be better or worse. So we see good in bad, and bad in good. To me this suggests good and bad are the same things. We just separate them when we need to explain something.

If God/Satan existed, and made everything super great/bad, then we would lose the value of good/bad. So, if we if we knew only good or bad, it would be the norm. Logically, the only way both can work, is if they are the same thing or they work together. But that means they act for a joint purpose which stops either doing just good or evil.

Also, the Bible has an equal amount of good as bad. For example, one of the Bible's biggest characters, Jesus Christ, was killed in the most horrific means possible. This was to show that no matter how bad something gets, it always will have good, no matter how small, because it can always be worse. As it happened, he was ressurected, and the lesson was complete.

The Bible just uses characters, if you like, to illustrate the lessons. You learn more if you have a model or icon to work too. Million's look up to Jesus and God.

To me, the idea the Bible and Holy books try to convey is to help us cope with the good and bad. If learning this, you can see they are the same. The Bible is a guidebook to help us cope with life. The reason heaven and hell are in the bible is because, if you choose to be good or bad, you know what will happen if you do either. That doesn't mean they exist for real.

The only ways i think God and Satan could both exist at the same time, separately is when you get heaven and hell. One the devil's domain, the other God's domain. Both are satisfied.

'God' and 'Satan' and 'good' and 'bad', are concepts made by humans and personifications that humans use to determine the acts and roles of what see as good and bad. We naturally, have to try to explain what happens to us, when we don't know the answer. Speculate to accumulate. Books like the Bible help with this.

When good things happen, we say it's god's will or good luck, when bad things happen, we blame the devil's will or bad luck.

In my opinion, good and bad don't really exist, they are one whole thing.

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Neither Satan or God rule this world, chaos does.

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I was thinking the other night.....as you do when you wake up at 4am and can't get back to sleep, Well if your good God rewards you when you die by letting you into Heaven where it's Paradise ect ect, but when your Bad and Evil you go to Hell where you suffer for all eternity for your sins ect ect. What I was wondering is...if Satan is the ruler of Hell then why doesn't he make it Heaven for the evil doer's and reward them for commiting evil...surley then it would act as an incentive for more people to commit more evil? blink.gif Just thought I'd share. devil.gif

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Hey I dig that Halo...................... original.gif

I have always wondered that myself... Because you are right, if he rules hell, wouldn't he be sure to stock up on all the evil things that make it worth it to be evil in the first place?? That is why I don't believe organized religion, because it doesn't make sense................ whistling2.gif

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lol, I actually DO think that's what it would be like, assuming religion is real (still don't believe a word of it tongue.gif)

Heaven: An eternity of praying...talking to god...living a life of self perfection, persuing one's inner peace. wub.gif

Hell: An eternity of booze, sex, hard rock music, and staying up playing blood thirsty video games. devil.gif

The fact is, since most things that people actually do for fun at considered 'sin'...I doubt very much heaven would be a nice place to be. You might live a life of peace...but what sort of life would it be? Can you imagine spending eternity without ever having a party, a lover, or watching a good contact sport?

I vote for devil.gif

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You may want to be careful what you wish for......

Hell by definition is anguish. You will be completely alone, no parties, no music, no fun. You most probably will have an intact memory though, you'll have all of eternity to regret your decision.....

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Hell is nothing by definition. The word was applied to that meaning because it is feared by the so called 'god fearing'. I am neither god fearing, nor god believing, and don't hold a great deal of fear for the afterlife whatsoever.

Since both heaven and hell are entirerly hypothetical, I think that a hell that caters to sinners is more realistic. As I've said elsewhere, God has been seen to be far more savage and ruthless in how he treats humanity than the devil. If anything, the devil is an individualist, not evil...he is merely interpreted that way but the so called 'good' of the bible.

I still believe it's all metaphorical nonsense...however, if it is true, I think I'd rather spend eternity in a place of individualism, than under the iron heel of a saddistic tyrant who has slaughtered millions upon millions of people who's only crime was non-comformity.

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Neither Satan or God rule this world, chaos does.

i agree 100%!

But, seraphina has some interesting views as well regarding the perspective of god as illustrated in the old & new testament...

She took the words right out of my mouth with her second post:

Heaven: An eternity of praying...talking to god...living a life of self perfection, persuing one's inner peace. 

Hell: An eternity of booze, sex, hard rock music, and staying up playing blood thirsty video games. 

thumbsup.gif

Good and Evil is in the eye of the beholder. But as we all know, God is the symbol of Good or even positive energy to some... and Satan = Evil or negative energy to some. As it has been stated numerous times, +/- is very necessary in order to keep a proper balance in the universe but in our reality and throughout history, chaos tends to rule!

Edit:

Made the quote "quote"

Edited by Phantom

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Personally, I think God and Satan are like Military recruiters. I don't think either place is for me, and I don't want to be confined to heaven or hell. When I die, I want to go exploring the universe. I don't want the knowledge given to me, I want to discover it for myself. I wouldn't mind visiting heaven though.

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The fact is, since most things that people actually do for fun at considered 'sin'...I doubt very much heaven would be a nice place to be. You might live a life of peace...but what sort of life would it be? Can you imagine spending eternity without ever having a party, a lover, or watching a good contact sport?

I vote for devil.gif

Seraphina-

Maybe the concept of heaven would be simple.

In heaven you would be completely satisfied with just peace. Therefore, when you leave all the partying, and sinful things, you actually don't mind.. Because 'heaven' is supposed to be completely satisfying in every way imaginable.

This is pure speculation on my part, of course.......... wink2.gif

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