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Ravinar

Global Dimming?! we have ben tricked!

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Posted (edited)

Edited at the request of Ravinar- Dot

We are all seeing rather less of the Sun. Scientists looking at five decades of sunlight measurements have reached the disturbing conclusion that the amount of solar energy reaching the Earth's surface has been gradually falling. Paradoxically, the decline in sunlight may mean that global warming is a far greater threat to society than previously thought.

The effect was first spotted by Gerry Stanhill, an English scientist working in Israel. Comparing Israeli sunlight records from the 1950s with current ones, Stanhill was astonished to find a large fall in solar radiation. "There was a staggering 22% drop in the sunlight, and that really amazed me," he says.

Intrigued, he searched out records from all around the world, and found the same story almost everywhere he looked, with sunlight falling by 10% over the USA, nearly 30% in parts of the former Soviet Union, and even by 16% in parts of the British Isles. Although the effect varied greatly from place to place, overall the decline amounted to 1-2% globally per decade between the 1950s and the 1990s.

Gerry called the phenomenon global dimming, but his research, published in 2001, met with a sceptical response from other scientists. It was only recently, when his conclusions were confirmed by Australian scientists using a completely different method to estimate solar radiation, that climate scientists at last woke up to the reality of global dimming.

Dimming appears to be caused by air pollution. Burning coal, oil and wood, whether in cars, power stations or cooking fires, produces not only invisible carbon dioxide (the principal greenhouse gas responsible for global warming) but also tiny airborne particles of soot, ash, sulphur compounds and other pollutants.

This visible air pollution reflects sunlight back into space, preventing it reaching the surface. But the pollution also changes the optical properties of clouds. Because the particles seed the formation of water droplets, polluted clouds contain a larger number of droplets than unpolluted clouds. Recent research shows that this makes them more reflective than they would otherwise be, again reflecting the Sun's rays back into space.

Scientists are now worried that dimming, by shielding the oceans from the full power of the Sun, may be disrupting the pattern of the world's rainfall. There are suggestions that dimming was behind the droughts in sub-Saharan Africa which claimed hundreds of thousands of lives in the 1970s and 1980s. There are disturbing hints the same thing may be happening today in Asia, home to half the world's population. "My main concern is global dimming is also having a detrimental impact on the Asian monsoon," says Prof Veerhabhadran Ramanathan, one of the world's leading climate scientists. "We are talking about billions of people."

But perhaps the most alarming aspect of global dimming is that it may have led scientists to underestimate the true power of the greenhouse effect. They know how much extra energy is being trapped in the Earth's atmosphere by the extra carbon dioxide (CO2) we have placed there. What has been surprising is that this extra energy has so far resulted in a temperature rise of just 0.6°C.

This has led many scientists to conclude that the present-day climate is less sensitive to the effects of carbon dioxide than it was, say, during the ice age, when a similar rise in CO2 led to a temperature rise of 6°C. But it now appears the warming from greenhouse gases has been offset by a strong cooling effect from dimming - in effect two of our pollutants have been cancelling each other out. This means that the climate may in fact be more sensitive to the greenhouse effect than thought.

If so, then this is bad news, according to Dr Peter Cox, one of the world's leading climate modellers. As things stand, CO2 levels are projected to rise strongly over coming decades, whereas there are encouraging signs that particle pollution is at last being brought under control. "We're going to be in a situation, unless we act, where the cooling pollutant is dropping off while the warming pollutant is going up. That means we'll get reduced cooling and increased heating at the same time and that's a problem for us," says Cox.

Even the most pessimistic forecasts of global warming may now have to be drastically revised upwards. That means a temperature rise of 10°C by 2100 could be on the cards, giving the UK a climate like that of North Africa, and rendering many parts of the world uninhabitable. That is unless we act urgently to curb our emissions of greenhouse gases.

_______________________________________________________________________

sorc here http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes...g_summary.shtml

i just got done watching a special about this on PBS its really scary to think we could tern most of the world into near desert! there are other effects of this that could triger runaway global warming! like this one.....

http://www.countercurrents.org/cc-atcheson240206.htm

i fear that if nothing is done this will lead to the complete and utter collapse of our civilization............

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons

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For those who don't want to read it all, I will sum it up: We're either going to die or evolve into using our instinct survival skills. No more food at the supermarket. =(

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yes. every one i apologize for the long read. but i implore you to take the time to read it. this could effect wether or not we go extinct. if all this comes to pass it will take the earth thousands of years to heal its self and even if we survive all that man kind has strived for these past hundred years ( are technology are hopes are dreams are morrill ideas ) will be lost. one of my fears about this is that in the future man kind my (in a last ditch effort) release tons of ash and soot into the atmosphere to try and stunt the progress of global warming with unknown consequences. let us hope it dose not come to that......... :unsure2:

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yes. every one i apologize for the long read. but i implore you to take the time to read it. this could effect wether or not we go extinct. if all this comes to pass it will take the earth thousands of years to heal its self and even if we survive all that man kind has strived for these past hundred years ( are technology are hopes are dreams are morrill ideas ) will be lost. one of my fears about this is that in the future man kind my (in a last ditch effort) release tons of ash and soot into the atmosphere to try and stunt the progress of global warming with unknown consequences. let us hope it dose not come to that......... :unsure2:

Thank you for the post. I found it very interesting but also very sad. Will us humans (who are oh so much smarter than animals) ever wake up and learn to respect our planet??

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Good Grief!

If not for global dimming, global warming would have become far more prominent, and i saw that very program. It took 9/11/01 to ground our entire commercial air fleet there by negating the effect of the particles coming from the engines, causing some areas of the country for 3 days to be warmer than they were before, once the planes were back in the sky the cool down became more pronounced.

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Good Grief!

If not for global dimming, global warming would have become far more prominent, and i saw that very program. It took 9/11/01 to ground our entire commercial air fleet there by negating the effect of the particles coming from the engines, causing some areas of the country for 3 days to be warmer than they were before, once the planes were back in the sky the cool down became more pronounced.

hey don't you think its sadly ironic that all those environmentalist fought so hard to get those filters put into all those cars and smokestacks to help stop air pollution and then we find out that doing so is actually helping to speed the planet to an environmental catastrify :( what we really need to do is eliminate CO'2 admissions completely.

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So let me see if I understand rightly:

Burning fossil fuels results in Carbon Dioxide and Airborne particles.

Carbon Dioxide = Global Warming,

Airborne Particles = Global Dimming.

The two are cancelling each other out, but airborne particles will soon be 'under control', allowing Global Warming to have a much greater impact than before?

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So let me see if I understand rightly:

Burning fossil fuels results in Carbon Dioxide and Airborne particles.

Carbon Dioxide = Global Warming,

Airborne Particles = Global Dimming.

The two are cancelling each other out, but airborne particles will soon be 'under control', allowing Global Warming to have a much greater impact than before?

Correct! this tug of war between the two factors is what led many scientists to underestimate the threat of global warming. global dimming was not taken seriously until recently and when you combine other factors such as the potential release of tons of frozen methane gas at the bottom of the sea do to warming oceans and other factors you have a recipe for a planetary disaster the likes of witch have not ben seen for millions of years.

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So in basic terms- we're screwed. :P

At least now I suppose we know there is an active force working against global warming, maybe a solution could be found in that. Then I suppose we would tip the balance the wrong way and end up with a Global cooling.

It's time people started taking it seriously. You always hear about what a huge issue Global warming is, but are there even any basic precautions in place at all?

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So in basic terms- we're screwed. :P

At least now I suppose we know there is an active force working against global warming, maybe a solution could be found in that. Then I suppose we would tip the balance the wrong way and end up with a Global cooling.

It's time people started taking it seriously. You always hear about what a huge issue Global warming is, but are there even any basic precautions in place at all?

well there was... the clean air act i think it was called. but bush pulled us out of it to make way for the big businesses and corporate C.E.O's to make more money <_<

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well there was... the clean air act i think it was called. but bush pulled us out of it to make way for the big businesses and corporate C.E.O's to make more money <_<

yeah they are under the assumption that corporations have the envornment in mind and they will take care of it instead of the gov....

well we all know how that will work out..

either way it's going to be bad pretty soon we wont be able to drink the water here nor find a breath of fresh air.. you will have to completely give up fish and other sea food because of contaminants and well we'll just be in really bad shape...

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yeah they are under the assumption that corporations have the envornment in mind and they will take care of it instead of the gov....

well we all know how that will work out..

either way it's going to be bad pretty soon we wont be able to drink the water here nor find a breath of fresh air.. you will have to completely give up fish and other sea food because of contaminants and well we'll just be in really bad shape...

Manapa that is the situation now the milk (in calif) right now is contaminated from the water a chemical called percholate which is devasting to a growing child or infant or an elder person...We have warnings all over our whole foods and trader joes...We do not touch the fish not me but my hubby unless its wild which is rare......Teh leels of mercury are to unsafe....salmon is the only fish many will eat but then again we have it posted in our whole foods the same warnings yu said........I figure the gov't will rectifiy the situation by putting a label fron the surgeon general on milk and water, just like they do on cigarettes and alcohol for those that think this stuff is a myth....for thiose tha tfele they should have the right to treat there bodys in anyway they see fit.......

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Posted (edited)

you can tell the difference in the clouds like for example a couple weeks ago i was out on a boat and i looked up because it looked like it might rain and i was looking directly at the sun but it wasnt bright...at all(didnt squint or nothing) it just looked like a giant circle the clouds were thin enough to where i could see the shape of the sun but dense enough to block the rays

i still cant believe people are saying **** it and just keep doing what their doing and keep saying its a myth made up by vegetarians

im far from a vegetarian believe me

Edited by shikon1

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At least now I suppose we know there is an active force working against global warming maybe a solution could be found in that. Then I suppose we would tip the balance the wrong way and end up with a Global cooling.

not really. :no: unless you want the cases of people with asma to sky rocket. this would be a last ditch option. it would be like " when all els has failed " kind of option and it would most likely be devastating to the environment and to peoples health. the time to stop this from happening is now! but with people like bush running the show the future isn't looking to good :no:

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Just posting to reintroduce this quite important topic of discussion.

KGS

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I personally will miss are morrill ideas most.

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Just posting to reintroduce this quite important topic of discussion.

KGS

Bumping a thread is considered a form of spamming. Resurrecting a thread that has been dead for over half a year without even adding anything to the conversation is just not good nettiquette.

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