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Inchoatus

"Everything that has a beginning has an end"

25 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Think about it, logically, its right to have an end for the start but, Space is infinite. Like, just keeps going. No end. No walls, just friggin space. Like going on and on and on and on.

Because of that fact, can we relate that to other things?? I mean if you think seriously about it, it really doesnt make any sense. Everytime we see something, we will be expecting for that "thing" to end anytime. How could Space not have an end?? Is it because the way we think?? The way we look at things? Is it something that we cant relate cuz its out of our hands?

What do you think?

Sorry if it sounds confusing...

** dam sorry for the spelling mistake in the title... :hmm:

Edited by Inchoatus

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Posted (edited)

Space isn't infinite. It was creasted at the moment of the big bang and has been expanding ever since. As it was created a finite amount of time ago and has been expanding at a finite rate logically it has to be of finite size. Howevere it is boundless. It has no beginning or end in the same way that a circle has neither.

P.S. I've fixed the title.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf

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It's like Waspie said, mapping of the microwave radiation left over from the big bang indicates an expanding bubble. A bubble in what is unknown. Maybe it will just pop and collapse back in on itself. Then start a new big bang. Who knows?

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Just leaving a link with no explanation is unlikely to get peoples interest. In this case it is a link to frequently asked questions on black holes. What this has to do with whether the universe is infinite or not I don't know.

It's like Waspie said, mapping of the microwave radiation left over from the big bang indicates an expanding bubble. A bubble in what is unknown. Maybe it will just pop and collapse back in on itself. Then start a new big bang. Who knows?

It is not really a bubble into anything as such, well not anything physical anyway. It is a 3 dimensional universe expanding into a fourth dimension.

It won't go pop as such but collapsing in on itself is a possibility. It has been the quest of astrophysics for a while to find out whether the universe is open (expands forever) or closed (expansion will stop followed by a collapse). This depends on the amount of matter in the universe. If there is enough the gravitation attraction of everything in the universe will cause the collapse. Recent evidence suggest that not only is the universal expansion not slowing but it is actually accelerating, meaning that the universe will expand forever.

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Posted (edited)

Everytime we see something, we will be expecting for that "thing" to end anytime. How could Space not have an end??

If anything comes near to black hole thats the end of space... but again it start with a new begin.. so we can tell it is infinite... but there is a end for everything.. just by restarting this process it become infinite..

Edited by j4jak

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If anything comes near to black hole thats the end of space... but again it start with a new begin.. so we can tell it is infinite... but there is a end for everything.. just by restarting this process it become infinite..

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Black holes in no way prove that the universe is infinite.

An object which passes through the event horizon of a black will be unable to escape from it's gravitational pull. The object gets destroyed as it is pulled in. Quite how this represents a new beginning or evidence that the universe is infinite I have no idea.

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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Black holes in no way prove that the universe is infinite.

An object which passes through the event horizon of a black will be unable to escape from it's gravitational pull. The object gets destroyed as it is pulled in. Quite how this represents a new beginning or evidence that the universe is infinite I have no idea.

I feel it is pulled not for destroying anything ... just to recycle.. because no one knows what exactly happen in black hole.. they are talking about a white hole too.. which only spit..

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Posted (edited)

I feel it is pulled not for destroying anything ... just to recycle.. because no one knows what exactly happen in black hole.. they are talking about a white hole too.. which only spit..

Read your own link:

These tidal forces get more and more intense as you get closer to the center, and eventually they will rip you apart.

White holes are a perfectly valid mathematical solution to the equations of general relativity, but that doesn't mean that they actually exist in nature. In fact, they almost certainly do not exist, since there's no way to produce one.
Edited by Waspie_Dwarf

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"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."

Who am i to talk about something which no one can study it properly..

but still i feel.. even if this destroy it fully.. there should be a way out again from somewhere.. otherwise how the cycle of time, energy will work...

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Posted (edited)

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."

Who am i to talk about something which no one can study it properly..

Firstly that is a quote from a comedy science fiction novel. Secondly there is a difference between big and infinite. A universe expanding at a finite speed for a finite time can not be infinite. It can only be infinite if it has been epanding for an infinite amount of time (which the 3K backgroud radiation shows it hasn't) or is expanding at infinite speed (which is forbidden by relativity) or both.

but still i feel.. even if this destroy it fully.. there should be a way out again from somewhere.. otherwise how the cycle of time, energy will work...

What cycle of time, energy?

There is a scientific law called the conservation of mass-energy. This is in no way violated by the object being torn apart by the black hole. The mass of the object still exists it just becomes part of the black hole.

If it is destroyed fully it is over, finished, kaput. If you think that there is some sort of reincarnation going on here then that is a subject for the spirituallity forums.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf

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I fully agree with Waspie here...The most accepted theories say Space is not infinite. It is actually expanding.

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There is evidence that space was in hyper exapansion after the big bang of course, and the acceleration started slowing. However, for some unknown reason - one that defys our rationalize of physics, it started speeding up again about 10 or so billion years ago.

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There is evidence that space was in hyper exapansion after the big bang of course, and the acceleration started slowing. However, for some unknown reason - one that defys our rationalize of physics, it started speeding up again about 10 or so billion years ago.

Just a thought here, maybe the expansion is speeding up because of the gavitational pull from another, parallel, expanding universe. Do we know for a fact that the big bang event that created our universe was the only one?

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Thnkx for the infos Waspie. I never knew it wasnt infinite..

Well I know is that to find the end of the space will take years which will feel like the space is infinite :D

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heres an idea of how big space is if we sent a rocket ship towards the next closest sun traveling at the speed of light during the caveman time it still woudlnt be there yet.

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Thnkx for the infos Waspie. I never knew it wasnt infinite..

Well I know is that to find the end of the space will take years which will feel like the space is infinite :D

Trying to find the end of the universe is like trying to find the end of the earth. If you go far enough you will arrive back where you started.

heres an idea of how big space is if we sent a rocket ship towards the next closest sun traveling at the speed of light during the caveman time it still woudlnt be there yet.

If you sent a spacecraft to the nearest sun at the speed of light (excluding our own) it would arrive in just over 4 years.

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And your point is? If you just post a link without explaining what it is you are trying to say then you are just wasting your time.

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Think about it, logically, its right to have an end for the start but, Space is infinite. Like, just keeps going. No end. No walls, just friggin space. Like going on and on and on and on.

Because of that fact, can we relate that to other things?? I mean if you think seriously about it, it really doesnt make any sense. Everytime we see something, we will be expecting for that "thing" to end anytime. How could Space not have an end?? Is it because the way we think?? The way we look at things? Is it something that we cant relate cuz its out of our hands?

What do you think?

Sorry if it sounds confusing...

** dam sorry for the spelling mistake in the title... :hmm:

Actually there are some scientists that say that universe does have an end...the thing is limitless not infinite...its like the sand, its imposible to count all the grains in it, but they have an end...

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And your point is? If you just post a link without explaining what it is you are trying to say then you are just wasting your time.

My point not yet proved... so i have nothing to say Waspie..

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Posted (edited)

My point not yet proved... so i have nothing to say Waspie..

For someone with nothing to say you are making lot of posts.

Yes it is true that the standard model of the big bang is not proven, what is meant by that is the explanation of how the big bang came to be. There are several theories of how the universe began. They all have one thing in common... the universe was created at a specific moment in time and is expanding at a finite rate. There is very strong evidence for all of this, there is residule energy from the moment of the creation known as 3K radiation, also the expansion of the universe can be measured by the red shift of light from distant galaxies. All of which means that my original statement still stands... the universe has existed for a finite amount of time and has expanded at a finite rate and is, therefore finite.

The very post you have linked to is an alternative explantion for the big bang not an argument against it.

"It's a mathematically plausible model which refines the standard model of the Big Bang,"

In what way does it contradict the fact that the universe is finite? Yet again you have failed either to read or correctly understand a link yu have posted.

One caveat to my argument:

The univese is generally regarded to that which was created in the big bang. It is possible to theorise what lies beyond, but it may be impossible to know for sure. Hence it may be impossible for us to know if we are just one universe amongst many in a "multiverse". It is conceivable that the dimension or multiverse (call it what you will) that our universe is expanding into is infinite however the universe that we occupy will still be finite.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf

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Actually there are some scientists that say that universe does have an end...the thing is limitless not infinite...its like the sand, its imposible to count all the grains in it, but they have an end...

This depends on what you mean "has an end". It is rather like being on a sphere, there is a finite volume but you will never find the edge. The express used is finite but boundless.

However their is an "observable edge" to the universe. It is impossible to see further than 13 - 14 billion light years from earth. This is not because the universe ends there. Because light travels at a fixed finite speed if you try to look back further than 13-14 billion light years you are trying to look back to a time before the universe began. The actual universe is much larger than the observable universe.

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Posted (edited)

The Big Bang= Begginning

The giant Freeze/Big Crunch = end

Edited by ACfishing2

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The Big Bang= Begginning

The giant Freeze/Big Crunch = end

The besr current evidence suggest there will be no big crunch. As to the big freeze that will be when all activity stops in the universe, but the universe will still exist albeit as a uniform lifeless dark entity.

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