The Feedlot

[+Sherapy]

In days of past an animal would be found grazing in a pasture on a variety of plants but since WWII the food animal has undergone a revolution in lifestyle found themselves pulled off the pastures and set up in new digs CAFO (confined animal feeding operation)Light bulb moments of the american goverment's...if the truth be known this industrialization probably wouldn't of happened if it wasn't for the surplus in corn, cheap federally subsidized 'Zea Mays' .....for fish lovers fish are now being bred to tolerate corn.

Corn has proven to be quite a commodity and as the animals left the farm more land open, more corn....It seems logicical to some (the powers that be) to feed animals cheap corn in CAFO's after all it has made meat, which used to be on occassion im many homes now it can be eaten 3 meals a day..Yipee yipee Yet if we look alittle closer at this logic in a very short history CAFO's have produced more then there fair share of enviormental and health problems, polluted our waters and air, toxic waste plenty of it and novel and now deadly pathogens.....

Now here is the absurdity animals that adapted by natural selection to live on grass must be adapted by us ( humans those amazing creatures you may know a few of em) to eat only corn at considerable peril to the animals health the enviorments health and finally the eaters health, for no other reason them its the cheapest calories around and the greatest pile can be consumed...This short unhappy malnourished life of an animal which many eat marks triumph for the industrial revolution over the logic of evolution ....hmmm

Discuss

[Celumnaz]

It's natural for humans to dominate. If by nature were we made, than natural we are, and our actions as well.

It's like... Nature Intended for us to create industry, and Intended for us to be able to manipulate what we do.

[+Sherapy]

It's natural for humans to dominate. If by nature were we made, than natural we are, and our actions as well.

It's like... Nature Intended for us to create industry, and Intended for us to be able to manipulate what we do.

Celum give me a break are you inferring that man is actually superior to the intellegnce of nature??????have you ever cut yourself celum?????how did you heal?????

Domination is a catch phrase of a insecure egotistical human only applpicable in the realm of the relative.......

Did you read the OP??????It seems that its not so natural to take an animal off of grass......

Edited May 25, 2006 by Sheri berri

[Celumnaz]

Celum give me a break are you inferring that man is actually superior to the intellegnce of nature??????

Do all those question marks mean you're asking the question 6 times in a row? I'm inferring from what you said, that man as a product of nature is natural, and what we do is natural and intended by nature to be done.

Are you saying you're superior to the intellegence of nature?

have you ever cut yourself celum?????how did you heal?????

Yes. Naturally. When someone else cut me, I naturally had a doctor sew me back up. Where are you going with that?

Domination is a catch phrase of a insecure egotistical human only applpicable in the realm of the relative.......

Domination, happens. Especially when you let it happen or are too weak to prevent it.

Did you read the OP??????It seems that its not so natural to take an animal off of grass......

Yes. Why not? How do I know it won't evolve into a very successful superior meat producing animal? Mostly what you're talking about there, is how evil profitmaking is.

I *can* be safely ignored.

[skratch]

It's natural for humans to dominate. If by nature were we made, than natural we are, and our actions as well.

It's like... Nature Intended for us to create industry, and Intended for us to be able to manipulate what we do.

The way I see it, humans are still evolving.

We play God. I think everyone should go and watch Jurassic park 1. It makes some good points.

Celumnaz, I use to think the way you do. It use to be my reasoning for eating meat. I said to myself, "It's natural. If it wasn't natural, we wouldn't be here today, with all these industries!"

Unfortunately, it's human stupidity, not natural evolution that gets us here. Rene Descartes once said "I think, therefore I am".. My interpertation of this quote is that we as humans have the power to think, and thus the power to change. We play God, and then say that it's evolutionary for us to do this. It's funny, we can say we are smarter as an excuse to get away with things, but we can also say we are victims of evolution to get away with others.

The thing is, I can choose not to harm animals, and I can choose not to deprive animals of their NATURAL environment. Their natural environment is NOT a steel stall eating fatty corn all day, no matter how convenient it is for us to say so. We can live happy and healthy lives without eating animals. We evolved to be this way. We are eating animals out of pure selfishness for our tastbuds now, not for survival.

So we evolved to be greedy, and we evolved to be cruel to other innocent animals on this earth?

I'm sorry, but I have more respect for the human race than that, and I'm smarter than that. Go ahead and eat your meat, I can't and won't try to stop you. But don't say it's natural. It's selfish.

[+Sherapy]

I never said evil anything, I stated facts....you said "evil" i don't do evil.. I do logic A. the animal is not naturally a corn eater...B. eating corn goes against what it is naturally...( If I put things in my body that shouldn't be there such as meat (vegan use this as an analogy) i put the whole organism at risk) C. it seems it is putting not only the animal but the enviorment and the water and the air and the eater at serious risk......I'm sure the gov't with its heart and soul beleives it is doing good.....

celum i have neevr had to go to the doctor to get sewn up for a cut, it seems my body NATURALLY can heal itself it hasn't to date needed medical intervention....

Edited May 25, 2006 by Sheri berri

[+Sherapy]

the field trip continues: The co-evolutionary relationship between a cow and grass is one of nature's most unappreciated wonders.It also happens to be the keytounderstanding everything about modern meat.....the grasser whcih has evolved to withstand the grazing of remnets, the cow maintains and expands their habitat by preventing trees and shrubs from gaining 'domination" and hogging the sunlight..the animal aalso spreads grass seed, plants it with its hooves, then fertilizes it with his manure, in exchange the grasses that grow provide the cows with lunch thus the cirlce of life as it happens naturally... See these animals have this special ability to convert these grasses iinto a high quality protien..they have a very highly evolved digestive organ called a rumen...nature has provided us with an excellent system.....yet it takes time and what industry doesn't have is time.....How does a 80 pound steer get to 1,100 lbs in fourteen months??????In days of past a steer reached slaughter at 5 years or better(before the fast food revolution)

A cow will reach slaughter with tremendous amounts of corn ( remeber this is not there natural food, protien, and fat supplements, and a arsenal of new drugs.....weaning defines the moment (within days )this animal begins its journey to your dinner plate....weaning is the hardest time for the animal and farmer alike the animal will bellow and cry for days the stress often makes the calves sick ( there are a few resons this is done so soon one is to free the mother to have more calves and to get the animals ready for the feedlot.......

Edited May 25, 2006 by Sheri berri

[girty1600]

I prefere free-range beef myself. We don't have too many feed lots around here. Sometimes It seems there are more cattle ( if you include dairy farms ) than there are people in Indiana.

[robbieb]

not all meat is subjected to these circumstances. hunted meat and free range and kosher are not subjected to these.

[Celumnaz]

I never said evil anything, I stated facts....you said "evil" i don't do evil..

I did. It's a summary of your opinion. Bad/Evil... whatever, making profit is the culprit.

celum i have neevr had to go to the doctor to get sewn up for a cut, it seems my body NATURALLY can heal itself it hasn't to date needed medical intervention....

Well, I was drunk, and a bunch of little gang bangers jumped a friend of mine and started running off. So me, being the drunk stupid kid I was (think I was 20 at the time), ran, caught up to the 1st getaway car, and promptly jumped into the drivers side window, hoping to steer the car to a stop so I could then put a punishment on the 4 occupants. (being drunk, I'd forgotten I'm not a very good fighter...) So, naturally, the guy in the back seat shanked me, leaving about an 8" gash in my right side, exposing my internals, guts...

I partied for a few hours after, regularly pouring beer into the hole to "sterilize" it. After almost passing out, I found myself being driven to the ER where a butcher clumsily sewed me shut, after pointing out several organs to the attending nurses.

But it's nice to think you wouldn't need to be sewn up like that, having for yourself the regenerative abilities of the mythical Trolls. Any chance could get a demonstration of that on video?

A. the animal is not naturally a corn eater...B. eating corn goes against what it is naturally...( If I put things in my body that shouldn't be there such as meat (vegan use this as an analogy) i put the whole organism at risk) C. it seems it is putting not only the animal but the enviorment and the water and the air and the eater at serious risk

A. & B. With the marvels of modern science, hopefully that can be changed. Why are you advocating cessation of scientific study?

C. It seems putting a halt to A&B would put not only the animal, but the environment, water, air, and the eater at serious risk of extinction.

skratch, I don't actually believe what I posted 100%... (Edit: more like 75%, don't want to give the wrong impression)What would be the point of discussion if everyone said "I agree" to everything? I don't believe "nature" is the ultimate end all and be all of everything.

So we evolved to be greedy, and we evolved to be cruel to other innocent animals on this earth?

That's what Sherri's saying. But since when is being selfish, in and of itself, a bad thing? I see two different kinds of selfishness, and one of them is harmful, the other quite noble.

Objectivism is a pretty neat concept.

Edit: adding note.

re-reading what I said, I don't like the way my 100% and (75%) correction sounds. I do believe my position, but I can't use all my belief to support my opinion, so I have to resort to the limits of who I'm speaking to. Also, some points can only be observed by extreme examples, as the OP demonstrated perfectly. Like... I don't think Sherii is actually a Troll!

Edited May 26, 2006 by Celumnaz

[skratch]

not all meat is subjected to these circumstances. hunted meat and free range and kosher are not subjected to these.

We meet again.

Remember that vegetarianism thread that we chatted in?

Do you remember the points I made about free range meat?

Free range does not mean that the animal is not subjected to anitbiotics, growth horomones, and other chemicals. Kosher does not mean that either. Nor do either promise the animal lead a happy life. Kosher refers to the way the animal was killed, mostly, and it isn't any less wonderful than your standard american slaughtering.

If you hunt your meat, then all the power to you. I'm still against it, but at least it's a little more natural. Even though you have a gun, so it's kind of unfair..

Hunted (I really hope) means it was born, raised, and lived a natural life in the wild. It was not subjected to horomones, antibiotics, cages (free range are still subjected to the cold steel cages... the USAD demands animals have access to the outdoors but they do not give specifics for how much space, nor how long they have to be allowed out) and all that jazz..

[+Sherapy]

Really about the only place you can get a great steak is argentia they are the only country that raise only grass fed animals..........Thankyou on the kosher and free range Scratch You are a gift .........

[Doctor_Strangelove]

I guesse Canada isn't a real country then because i'm pretty sure that those were cattle I sawgrazing in a field on my way to the city yesterday. I don't know about where you come from, but here the cattle are aloud to graze on grass.

[Beckys_Mom]

WHere I live here in Ireland it is FULL of country sides...and there is a feild behind my house full of cattle

BUT and there is a but....a lot of the other feilds especially in the county armagh district....a lot of them have been bought over by builders and houses are being built on them all the time...it used to be beautiful now its all built up

I can even take pics and show you guys a lot of feilds where cattle once grazed....houses are in the process of being built......the place where I live has more than enough houses as it is but they keep over doing it and I'd dare say within the next 5 - 7 years there will hardly be a cattle feild left...its all money ££$$ these days

[robbieb]

yea and u can get grass fed cattle in the united states too. apparently tha not a real country either but argentina one of the south american countries that do more damage rasing cattle then anywhere else apparently there cattle is fine......

[+Sherapy]

I guesse Canada isn't a real country then because i'm pretty sure that those were cattle I sawgrazing in a field on my way to the city yesterday. I don't know about where you come from, but here the cattle are aloud to graze on grass.

Most animals graze on grass the first few weeks of life in preparation for the feedlot...after birth they are with the mother for a few weeks in a pasture,then they will be taken by truck to a feedlot, too many cattle that will of been paradise compared t what they will be enduring........

Robbie, the Us is the only country that hasn't banned the procedure of feeding dead animal remnats to animals in other words they eat each other...It was banned from cows in 97 becasue of mad cow disease, but it isn't banned from other animals, goggle that .Robbie but that doesn't account for e-coli and the various other illnesses that are meat related..of course eat what you want but you are what you eat what it eats too.....Cows that are natural herbivores are fed corn (grain) pumped full of antibiotics becasue they are so sick from the diet they eat???? Do you have any idea the disease and sickness thes animals endure???????Do you care??????I doubt if there is any organic meat.....This practice of feeding corn to cows is the light bulb moment of the gov't.......

Geri i guess the pastures are gone everywhere its so sad, not only is the planet losing its beauty but he animals are confined and taken from their natural homes...i get so sad about that....

Edited May 26, 2006 by Sheri berri

[Beckys_Mom]

Sheri..........If they keep doing this..and soon nearly every feild was taken over and the cattle where moved out...then what do they expect the cows to feed on???

Dont they need their cows to eat the fresh green grass?? A lot of farmers say...when their cows eat the fresh green grass...it makes the meat taste better lol

So anyhoo...lets say this does go on and on and on for many years...then what?? do the cows get fed?? If not they will die..no more cows...no more steak or milk Stupid bstds that give their feilds away

[bboy]

When I buy beef, like a few others said, I get it straight from the rancher. I have never had better beef than when I get the free range meat. I buy mine from individual ranchers, not from corporate farms. It isn't too hard when you live in South Dakota I guess. I can see where you're coming from living in California. Everything is corporate there.

[bboy]

Geri i guess the pastures are gone everywhere its so sad

Looks like you need to get out of California. Maybe if you saw what the rest of the country looks like you wouldn't be so negative about it. There is land almost everywhere for cattle to graze on.

[robbieb]

haha eveyone that has told her that she basicly siad were wrong. u know like when u drive down the roads and u see hundreds and hundreds of cattle just running and grazing on grass in the fields that mean nouthing apparently. according to her argentina is the only place that does that. so when u see all these cows eating grass some how u ended up in argentina i guess.

[skratch]

Most animals graze on grass the first few weeks of life in preparation for the feedlot...after birth they are with the mother for a few weeks in a pasture,then they will be taken by truck to a feedlot, too many cattle that will of been paradise compared t what they will be enduring........

Robbie, the Us is the only country that hasn't banned the procedure of feeding dead animal remnats to animals in other words they eat each other...It was banned from cows in 97 becasue of mad cow disease, but it isn't banned from other animals, goggle that .Robbie but that doesn't account for e-coli and the various other illnesses that are meat related..of course eat what you want but you are what you eat what it eats too.....Cows that are natural herbivores are fed corn (grain) pumped full of antibiotics becasue they are so sick from the diet they eat???? Do you have any idea the disease and sickness thes animals endure???????Do you care??????I doubt if there is any organic meat.....This practice of feeding corn to cows is the light bulb moment of the gov't.......

Geri i guess the pastures are gone everywhere its so sad, not only is the planet losing its beauty but he animals are confined and taken from their natural homes...i get so sad about that....

Sheri - You're getting carried away hun

The main problem with eating the meat of animals fed biproducts, growth horomones, antibiotics, etc is that when we eat them, it effects us the same way. These animals are not necessarily sick, because they are pumped full of the antibiotics, but they are FAR from healthy. They aren't diseased however.. Or at least not the majority. They test the cattle to make sure it is alright most of the time, and while the tests are leniant, they ensure that you aren't eating mad cow, diseased, cancerous, rotting meat. (Most of the time....) The likelyness of you getting diseased from the meat you eat is unlikely. It isn't short term that you need to worry about, it's that the chemicals that get pumped into them get pumped into you. Those antibiotics will effect your immune system (and not in a positive way). The growth horomones can lead to cancer and early puberty in kids, among many other things. Might I add Escherichia Coli, like salmonella is a bacteria, not an illness, but it can be responsible for a number of diseases, mostly intestinal, gastrointestinal, and diarrheal. (mmmmm..)

Here in Ottawa we have a mixture of ways cattle are raised. While we do have cattle that graze outside, they are not healthy either. They usually get fed corn, biproducts, and bottom of the barrel hay, which usually is moulding/mildewing. Trust me, I worked with them, I know our industry. It is far from natural, however. The meat you buy in your grocery store I can almost guarantee was raised mainly indoors, and was fed all these biproducts.

Sheri..........If they keep doing this..and soon nearly every feild was taken over and the cattle where moved out...then what do they expect the cows to feed on???

Dont they need their cows to eat the fresh green grass?? A lot of farmers say...when their cows eat the fresh green grass...it makes the meat taste better lol

So anyhoo...lets say this does go on and on and on for many years...then what?? do the cows get fed?? If not they will die..no more cows...no more steak or milk Stupid bstds that give their feilds away

Actually, farmers aren't very concerned about the quality and taste of meat. Cattle are sold by the pound, and while feeding green grass may make the meet taste better, it is easier to make their cows more "stocky" and fat by feeding them corn. Because of their added weight gain, they can sell them for more at an earlier age, and thus they make more of a profit from them. This industry is all about the money.

There is no quick fix solution to this problem. Nothing is going to happen to the industries, and nothing will happen to the cows. The suffering will continue. But I won't die happy if I support it. If you can live your life knowing you eat meat that suffered its whole life, even while being killed, and you eat it knowing that you're injesting harmful chemicals, and you eat it knowing you do it just for taste, then at least I can respect you for not being ignorant. Eat all the meat you want, but be informed.

[+Sherapy]

Sheri..........If they keep doing this..and soon nearly every feild was taken over and the cattle where moved out...then what do they expect the cows to feed on???

Dont they need their cows to eat the fresh green grass?? A lot of farmers say...when their cows eat the fresh green grass...it makes the meat taste better lol

So anyhoo...lets say this does go on and on and on for many years...then what?? do the cows get fed?? If not they will die..no more cows...no more steak or milk Stupid bstds that give their feilds away

Geri, they have solved the grass eating dilema by making cows which are herbivores into grain eateres they are fed corn, , the person that buys his meat off of a rancher that is rare there are few independent farmers left I'm talking the majority eat feedlot animals thats the original point..i have been all over the US they need the pastures that would feed an animal to grow corn, anyone who eats fast food/resturant is eating feedlot meat, to the person what is the name of the ranch you buy from , i'd like to investigate just what it is they do, do...As americans we pay for a really good story and we put our trust into these storys, Geri in 96 , this is the states, you are in another country so i don't know your laws and what not but here in america you willl not find milk that isn't contaminated regardless of its its marketed as organic or raw or ultrapasturezed, I have never given my son cows milk for just this reason( I wanted to add to that my son is as big and often bigger than most kids his age and older ) milk doesn't do a body good, not as a whole foods diet will)....Now the stores are starting to post signs 10 years later and i bet there will be a warning label on the carton just as with cigarettes..........Robbie i wish i was wrong.......

Edited May 26, 2006 by Sheri berri

[skratch]

"Now the stores are strting to post signs 10 years later and i bet there will be a warning label on the carton just as with cigarettes"

Wouldn't it be great? OH MAN! The bragging priveleges I could have. I'd shove it in my friends faces for AT LEAST a year!!! Just to spite the jerks.

Anyway, I wrote this somewhere else... But they are doing tests to see if cows milk actually can cause or help cause osteoperosis (sp?)..

The same problem the milk industry has been saying it helps to prevent.

interesting, if nothing else. I can't want to see what happens 10 years down the line.

People use to think that cigarettes didn't cause cancer, one day maybe there will be an anti-meat movement, and people will see the truth that I've been researching for so long.

[Beckys_Mom]

Sheri - You're getting carried away hun

Actually, farmers aren't very concerned about the quality and taste of meat. Cattle are sold by the pound,

Ohh is that so...well funny my late grandfather was indeed concerned how healthy his cattle where...he sold his stock to butchers and slaughter houses and if the meat wasnt as lean and taste good (feedback) they went elsewhere for their live stock...I was told this...not that I personally give a damn how it works, I was just saying....unless you wanna tell me my grandfather was wrong and you know better?

[Beckys_Mom]

Geri, they have solved the grass eating dilema by making cows which are herbivores into grain eateres tehy are fed corn, , te person tha tbuys his meat off of a rancher tha tis rare there are few indeepndent farmers left I'm talking the majority eat feedlot animals thas the original point..i have been all over the US they need the patures that would feed an animal to grow corn, anyone who eats fast food is eating feedlot meat, to the person wht is the name of the ranch you buy from , i'd like to investigate just what it is they do ddo...As americans we pay for a really good story and we put our trust into these storys, Geri in 96b this is the steas you are in another country so i don't knkow your laws and what not but here in america you willl not find milk that isn't contaminated regardless of its its marketed as organic or raw or ultrapasturezed, I have never given my son cows milk ofr just this reason....Now the stores are strting to post signs 10 years later and i bet there will be a warning label on the carton just as with cigarettes..........Robbie i wish i was wrong.......

Question for you Sheri...why do you continue to answer robbie?? he hasn't a clue, he says the on line expert sources are wrong and he is right?? Wouldnt you rather and feel better debating with someone (a meat eater) that KNOWS what he/she is talking about?