Dinos in Mexico between 1,600BC to 1,200AD

[Dr. Charles]

[attachmentid=26664]

See photos on my website: http://MexicanArchaeology.tripod.com

Most of these were discovered by a German Archaeologist between 1922 and 1954. Many are now on display in a museum in Acambaro, Guanajuato, Mexico. Carbon dating has been done in 3 separate locations. All agree on the approximate time of modeling.

How is this possible when we didn't know what dinosaurs looked like until about 200 years ago?

[Raptor]

If it's made primarily from Clay, can carbon dating be accurate?

Also, 'we' didn't know what dinosaurs looked like before, but that doesn't mean people couldn't have found the odd skeleton or two before.

[zandore]

Response:

The figurines show every evidence of being recent folk art, fraudulently buried in an archeological excavation. De Peso (1953) made the following observations:

The surfaces of the figurines were new. They were not marred by a patina or coating of soluble salts characteristic of genuinely old artifacts from the same area. The owner said none of the figures had been washed in acid. Edges of depressions were sharp and new. No dirt was packed into crevices.

Genuine archeological relics of fragile items are almost always found in fragments. Finding more than 30,000 such items in pristine condition is unheard of. The excavators of the artifacts were "neither careful nor experienced" in their field technique, yet no marks of their shovels, mattocks, or picks were noted in any of the 32,000 specimens. Some figurines were broken, but the breaks were unworn and apparently deliberate to suggest age. No parts were missing.

"The author spent two days watching the excavators burrow and dig; during the course of their search they managed to break a number of authentic prehistoric objects. On the second day the two struck a cache and the author examined the material in situ. The cache had been very recently buried by digging a down sloping tunnel into the black fill dirt of the prehistoric room. This fill ran to a depth of approximately 1.30 m. Within the stratum there were authentic Tarascan sherds, obsidian blades, tripod metates, manos, etc., but these objects held no concern for the excavators. In burying the cache of figurines, the natives had unwittingly cut some 15 cms. below the black fill into the sterile red earth floor of the prehistoric room. In back-filling the tunnel they mixed this red sterile earth with black earth; the tracing of their original excavation was, as a result, a simple task" (Di Peso 1953, 388).

Fresh manure was found in the tunnel fill.

Fingerprints were found in freshly packed earth that filled an excavated bowl.

MORE HERE

[frogfish]

How is this possible when we didn't know what dinosaurs looked like until about 200 years ago?

That doesn't bar us from finding fossils

[Dr. Charles]

That doesn't bar us from finding fossils

Quite true my friend. Hopefully someone will find some there for carbon dating! There are also petroglyphs on top of the hill, and a strange foorprint. I hope to return this Friday to make a plaster cast of the print.

[Dr. Charles]

If it's made primarily from Clay, can carbon dating be accurate?

Also, 'we' didn't know what dinosaurs looked like before, but that doesn't mean people couldn't have found the odd skeleton or two before.

It could be dated because there was grass (a substance that was once alive) mixed with the clay.

[Dr. Charles]

If it's made primarily from Clay, can carbon dating be accurate?

Also, 'we' didn't know what dinosaurs looked like before, but that doesn't mean people couldn't have found the odd skeleton or two before.

It could be carbon dated because there was grass (a once living material) mixed in with the clay. That has always been a common practice in Mexico.

[Dr. Charles]

Response:

The figurines show every evidence of being recent folk art, fraudulently buried in an archeological excavation. De Peso (1953) made the following observations:

The surfaces of the figurines were new. They were not marred by a patina or coating of soluble salts characteristic of genuinely old artifacts from the same area. The owner said none of the figures had been washed in acid. Edges of depressions were sharp and new. No dirt was packed into crevices.

Genuine archeological relics of fragile items are almost always found in fragments. Finding more than 30,000 such items in pristine condition is unheard of. The excavators of the artifacts were "neither careful nor experienced" in their field technique, yet no marks of their shovels, mattocks, or picks were noted in any of the 32,000 specimens. Some figurines were broken, but the breaks were unworn and apparently deliberate to suggest age. No parts were missing.

"The author spent two days watching the excavators burrow and dig; during the course of their search they managed to break a number of authentic prehistoric objects. On the second day the two struck a cache and the author examined the material in situ. The cache had been very recently buried by digging a down sloping tunnel into the black fill dirt of the prehistoric room. This fill ran to a depth of approximately 1.30 m. Within the stratum there were authentic Tarascan sherds, obsidian blades, tripod metates, manos, etc., but these objects held no concern for the excavators. In burying the cache of figurines, the natives had unwittingly cut some 15 cms. below the black fill into the sterile red earth floor of the prehistoric room. In back-filling the tunnel they mixed this red sterile earth with black earth; the tracing of their original excavation was, as a result, a simple task" (Di Peso 1953, 388).

Fresh manure was found in the tunnel fill.

Fingerprints were found in freshly packed earth that filled an excavated bowl.

MORE HERE

You may be referring to some dig, but these figures have been found in a number of surrounding towns, UNDER an old paved road bed, and even beneath the concrete living room floor

of the police chief who lived in a very old home. He agreed to have the floor dug up. And, you are WRONG about the careless excavation. Archaeologist Waldemar Julsrud from Germany lived there at the time, and he, personally found about 32,000 pieces over the years. His collection is now in the Waldemar Julsrud museum in Acambaro. The carbon dating was by a university in Pennsylvania, by UCLA, and another of which I don't recall the name. All 3 were closely tied to the approx. date.

[aquatus1]

Well, they do look vaguely lizard-ish, but I can't really say they look like any dinosaur I am familiar with. They look like the typical dragon monster one can find in pretty much any given civilization. Just a universal human boogieman.

[Dr. Charles]

Well, they do look vaguely lizard-ish, but I can't really say they look like any dinosaur I am familiar with. They look like the typical dragon monster one can find in pretty much any given civilization. Just a universal human boogieman.

You are correct. These aren't very representative. Look at the others on the website!

[aquatus1]

I've seen claims about the Acambaro figurines several times...I just haven't seen anything that would lead me to think it is a very credible claim. Most of the questions I have about its authenticity are addressed at the folowing site:

Acambara Figurines?

The thing of it is that, very much like the dinosaur representations on the stones of Ica, these figurines bear a stronger resemblance to the early conceptions of dinosaurs as presented in that era's comic books, rather than what we think of as dinosaurs today. Because of that, I find it far more likely that these figurines were created by people copying what they thought dinosaurs looked like, from comioc books, rather than by actually seeing them.

[Dr. Charles]

I've seen claims about the Acambaro figurines several times...I just haven't seen anything that would lead me to think it is a very credible claim. Most of the questions I have about its authenticity are addressed at the folowing site:

Acambara Figurines?

The thing of it is that, very much like the dinosaur representations on the stones of Ica, these figurines bear a stronger resemblance to the early conceptions of dinosaurs as presented in that era's comic books, rather than what we think of as dinosaurs today. Because of that, I find it far more likely that these figurines were created by people copying what they thought dinosaurs looked like, from comioc books, rather than by actually seeing them.

Comic books? This little town was so behind the times, that when the museum director was 7 years old (he was born in 1962) there wasn´t even a TV in the town. It is a long ways from anywhere. And the figures have come from over a rather large surrounding area, not only in Acámbaro.

[aquatus1]

Comic books? This little town was so behind the times, that when the museum director was 7 years old (he was born in 1962) there wasn´t even a TV in the town. It is a long ways from anywhere. And the figures have come from over a rather large surrounding area, not only in Acámbaro.

Comic books are far from an advanced technology, needing nowhere near the resources of a T.V. set, and they are an excellent object of trade in these types of areas. There is no doubt whatsoever that they had access to comic books. And, yes, the figures did indeed come from a wide area. I would say that pretty much everyone in the region who heard of the crazy white guy paying for lizard pottery would happily make the trip to sell what they had.

Did you read the link? It is less than a page long. Do you think you could respond to any of the points within?

[Conspiracy]

[attachmentid=26664]

See photos on my website: http://MexicanArchaeology.tripod.com

Most of these were discovered by a German Archaeologist between 1922 and 1954. Many are now on display in a museum in Acambaro, Guanajuato, Mexico. Carbon dating has been done in 3 separate locations. All agree on the approximate time of modeling.

How is this possible when we didn't know what dinosaurs looked like until about 200 years ago?

just cause europeans only discovered dinosaurs about 200 years ago doesnt mean north american natives and anyone else hasnt

[Essan]

If these clay figurines are meant to represent real animals that were alive within the last few thousands years, then where are these animals now? How did they all die out? And why has not a single trace of any of them ever been found?

[Dr. Charles]

just cause europeans only discovered dinosaurs about 200 years ago doesnt mean north american natives and anyone else hasnt

You don't seem to understand the problem Poltergeist. The problem is that dinos supposedly became extinct about 65 million trs ago. These people weren't around then.

[Dr. Charles]

If these clay figurines are meant to represent real animals that were alive within the last few thousands years, then where are these animals now? How did they all die out? And why has not a single trace of any of them ever been found?

Good question.

[Raptor]

You don't seem to understand the problem Poltergeist. The problem is that dinos supposedly became extinct about 65 million trs ago. These people weren't around then.

But who's to say that they didn't find dinosaur fossils before 'we' did

Interesting topic, either way.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Raptor X7

[Twitch98]

We don't even have to ponder dinosaurs contempory to humans. There have also been found in the New World statues of camels, horses and other non-contemporary North American species that were extinct long before human habitation here.

[the_h0llow_earth]

I really doubt this is a hoax. Who would go through the trouble of making 33,000 ceramic figurines, seriously? On top of that not all of them are dinosaurs. So who would go through the trouble of making 33,000 figurines and only some of them dinosaurs?

Someone earlier said that they don't look anything like dinosaurs...

http://www.kacr.or.kr/img/UNI2e4c.jpg

... what does that look like to you? <-- serious question.

Someone also said that they may have found fossils of dinosaurs and constructed the figurines based on the bones... A complete skeleton of a dinosaur is rare. Most of the time the bones are scattered and mixed with other types of dinosaurs. sure they may have found a few fossils, maybe even complete skeletons, but not likely. The figurines include apatosaurus, stegosaurus, ankylosaurs, and many more. The probability that this civilization found more than three complete dinosaur fossils of different types is slim to none. The only other explanations are that they actually saw these dinosaurs in the flesh or that someone hoaxed 33,000 figurines. Before you think it's a hoax know that there have been dozens of radiometric dating of the figurines and every one of them indicated that they were well over 1000 years old.

[frogfish]

I really doubt this is a hoax. Who would go through the trouble of making 33,000 ceramic figurines, seriously

A hoaxer?

It may not be a hoax. The natives could of found dino bones also.

[the_h0llow_earth]

It may not be a hoax. The natives could of found dino bones also.

It is very unlikely that they found so many complete dinosaur skeletons because they are very rare.

[frogfish]

It is very unlikely that they found so many complete dinosaur skeletons because they are very rare.

They are not as rare as you say they are...Who knows, they might of guessed...hence 'dragons'.

[the_h0llow_earth]

They are not as rare as you say they are...Who knows, they might of guessed...hence 'dragons'.

Complete skeletons are rare.

It is my opinion that dragons were dinosaurs that co-exsisted with man and were hunted by knights, and they killed most of them off, maybe even all of them. The only evidence I have of this is the fact that there are so many dragon stories from so many different cultures around the world that may have had no contact with eachother.

[frogfish]

It is my opinion that dragons were dinosaurs that co-exsisted with man and were hunted by knights, and they killed most of them off, maybe even all of them. The only evidence I have of this is the fact that there are so many dragon stories from so many different cultures around the world that may have had no contact with eachother.

That's out there...My theory sound much more logical and nicer...

They found dino bones and drew pictures, made stories, and created legends!

Complete skeletons are rare

In untouched lands, they could be found...Maybe they stumbled upon a dinosaur graveyard. Or a whole skeleton!