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drew hempel

Debunking the Disclosure Project

394 posts in this topic

OK I watched the Disclosure Project video:

1) An M.D. is not a Ph.D. -- the standards are much less strict for getting an M.D. Greer's message is that technology will save the Earth. That the aliens are overall "good" and that current classified projects threaten the constitution so must be declassified.

This is all bunk because technology is point blank destroying the Earth. The constitution has been null and void all along -- it's always been a joke! There is no evidence for aliens. This is CIA propaganda to displace responsibility of earth-destroying technology -- so the message is now "we must not attack the E.T.s" Again "The Stargate Conspiracy" by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince has proven that the CIA pushes this disinfo message. Also Nick Redfern's books have proven the same promotion of "techno-spirituality."

Dr. Helen Caldicott is the perfect antidote to Dr. Steven R. Greer. Caldicott's book "Missile Envy" documents that up till the 1980s there have been dozens of accidents with nuclear missles. For example 5 of the 6 safety triggers went off for a crashed nuclear missile in S. Carolina. If the last safety trigger had been released half of the state would have been destroyed and it would have launched a global apocalypse. There are still missile accidents that are classified.

We can not just ban space weapons because technological progress has ALWAYS been based on military developments. So again Greer is promoting a CIA scheme -- that if we don't attack E.T.s then E.T.s will help us use free energy (this is a complete myth to hide the fact that technology is destroying earth and that engineers have no control over the technology. The new discipline of quantum chaos has proven this -- just as professor Steve Strogatz who did his research at Los Alamos -- the computers are in control!!).

Greer's final message in the opening remarks is "mature adults have space cooperation with aliens." -- Again this is just to displace our responsibility for the current fact that modern technology is destroying Earth.

The Witnesses -- practically all old white guys that retired in the 1980s -- many of them from known sources of disinformation. Read Nick Redfern to see the details and documents on how the CIA and Wright Patterson have been kicking out disinformation and that's where many of these witnesses come from!!

John Callahan FAA -- The FAA has a known history of cover-ups regarding crashed airplanes to take out political opponents. Just read Sherman Skolnick or Anthony Lappe's recent book "True Lies." The FAA works with the CIA to murder people!!

Callahan briefed "Reagan's scientific staff" -- you mean people like Dixie Lee Ray -- the pro-nuclear scam artist. Reagan's scientific staff is an oxymoron -- much like how the Bush Jr. scientific staff are a bunch of frauds.

Charles Brown -- WWII Airforce OSI, office next to Air Technical Center at Wright Patterson. He used Bluebook sources (again well-documented DISINFO!!)

Michael Smith -- Airforce Sargent till 1973 -- notified NORAD about UFOs on radar and NORAD notified him about "UFOs" -- so what?

Enrique Corbick -- Mexico City Air Traffic Controller 1992 15 objects, 1994 several near collisions and 5 hours on radar -- 15 meter diameter UFO seen by many -- pilot-radar confirmation. "Doesn't know why Mexico has so many sightings?" -- well probably because it's close to the U.S. where all this technology is designed!!

Graham Baffoon -- Retired Navy Pilot, top clearance. 1991 Iceland circle of lights with halo shoots out from over water -- Dome with corona discharge. Al Jones, co-pilot, has instrument failure but tracks object as 1800 MPH. Has Navy Intelligence reports (again this is new technology -- big deal!!)

Dan Willis US Navy, top secret Level 14 in San Francisco Code Room, 1969 came out of ocean, elliptical, 70 feet in diameter, 7,000 MPH. Ship radar substantiated. NORAD tells him "visit from our little friends" -- so a joking aside comment is confirmation of what??

Don Phillips CIA -Airforce Design Engineer Deep Black SR71 Blackbird -- predecessor is CIA -- one pilot, one passenger craft on missions to chase UFOs to and from Earth. Las Vegas Airforce Station -- Nullis Airforce Base -- Radar site, Mt. charleston, 1965-6. 8000 Ft elevation. UFO tracked at 3800 MPH by commander staff. Craft stops and reverses and leaves trails at high speeds -- OVER Groom lake, area 51 where his employer Skunkworks tests crafts. Anthony Skazar, scopes radar at 10,000 feet confirms UFO sightings and states the UFOs had no clearance (again secret technology at Area 51 -- big deal).

Captain Robert Salas -- Airforce base, Montana 1971 Minuteman Missiles sees red glow, oval hovering outside gate and losses 6 to 8 missiles -- confirmed by retired colonel. Echo-flight also lost 10 weapons with a UFO -- confirmed by Captain Eric Carlson and Lt. Colonal Walt Feigel with FOIA documents from Airforce stating UFOs. (again top secret aircraft -- big deal). SAC Headquarters telexes the same information.

Electromagnetic Pulse Weapons can easily dismantle missiles.

Minut North Dakota -- same thing -- UFOs dismantle missiles.

Dwaynne Arnessons, US Airforce Above Top Secret clearance at Wright Patterson (again confirmed DISINFO source). 1960s, Germany, crashed UFO. 1967, Montana -- deactivated Nukes by UFOs. This Arnesson commanded divisions in Vietnam (I'm getting warm, fuzzy feelings all over!! -- how many people did he massacre!!) Lauren Airforce Base -- same thing UFOs dismantle Nukes.

All these people state they will testify to Congress -- BIG WHOOP -- CIA and military lie to congress all the time.

Harland Bentley Airforce -- 1968 Maryland -- pulsating transformer UFO crashes and then takes off. 12 - 15 UFOs travelling 17,000 MPH. California 1978 hears Houston Astronaut Comlink mention "bogie" on the Moon and "there they go."

Is this why E. Mitchell has disowned Greer ?

John Maynard -- Sargent Army Top Secret -- retired from DIA, 1980. Signed 2000 documents, many with UFO references. Was in charge of SALT II verifications. Wants the Black-ops, secret goverment exposed -- Don't We All!! Again top secret technology.

Karl Wolf, Airforce Langley VA, 1965 consults for NASA Lunar Orbiter Project. Told there is a "base on the back side of the moon with structures, towers, and mushroom shapes" -- had breeched security. Well was he a victim of DISINFO or is he speading DISINFO -- who knows?

Donna Hare -- NASA, 1981 retired -- secret clearance -- so photos had UFOs airbrushed out -- a guard was hit on the head after looking at them. Apollo astronauts saw craft on Moon.

Again so E. Mitchell disowns these people -- why?

Larry Warren Airforce -- NATO Nukes dude in Great Britain. UFOs knock out nukes -- "potentially other life form seen" (well that's a very leading statement) this is a "human rights issue" -- What Nuclear radiation out of control or... aliens!! Charles Holt -- deputy commander of station could give a briefing like a sci-fi document (I bet he could!!)

George Filer III -- Airforce Intelligence, 1962 London told to chase a UFO (how convenient!!) Vietnam he briefed General Glouth (about how great it was to massacre the Vietnamese?!! -- over 2 million killed in Indochina!)

Iran 1976 -- airforce electronics dismantled 1978 -- crashed UFO at Fort d**** and McGwyer -- "the Roswell of the East" -- Well that makes sense considering Roswell was a huge CIA disinfo project. Again read Nick Redfern's latest book on the topic -- "Body Snatchers in the Desert."

Filer states that aliens were shot at and he was supposed to testify but Filer was not sure that aliens were shot at so didn't testify (well what is it!!)

Now he's MUFON director for East Coast -- again another well-documented CIA-disinfo organization -- infilitrated by scam artists.

Clifford Stone -- Army Nukes special Ops -- recovered Saucers and Bodies (you mean bodies of humans or...?) 1969 Fortley Virginia -- goes to Indiantown Penn -- recovers UFO with Nuke materials but later he is told it was our craft. Stone knows better because he saw the bodies and the Geiger Counter showed it was radiation (again so the U.S. has nuke-powered aircraft and it crashed! -- Read Nick Redfern's "Body Snatchers in the Desert" for confirmation of this fact)

Mark McCandlish -- US Airforce Artist -- 1967 Westover base -- UFO hovered over nukes. (yawn) 1988 Brad Sorenson (his buddy) saw UFOs in a hangar at Norten Airforce Base!! (so again we have secret UFO-type craft. It's not aliens!!) McCandish consults with chairman of Space, Science and Technology committee, Congressman Brown. 3 disks were seen hovering and are called "flux liner" or ARV -- alien reproduction vehicles (aka ARV). They use high voltage electronics. 1967 Utah -- an ARV is seen at 12,000 ft.

Kent Selin -- Edwards Airforce Base, 1973 Crew Chief for classified Aircraft and wandered into the ARV area. Burt Retain, aeronautical engineer and Ray Walsh, Colonel at Edwards Airforce base in 1994 can confirm these ARVs. 1960 wind tunnel tests for ARVs doing Mach 20. NASA has spherical and lenticular shape ARVs. Hercules Aerospace is using anti-gravity or zero-point energy technology with scalar waves. Documents show DIA and Russkies met 6 times to discuss Tesla Technology.

Daniel Sheehan -- General Counsel to Disclosure Project. Sheenan represented Watergate -- which WAS A CIA COVER-UP -- read Jim Hougan's book "Secret Agenda." Sheehan then worked for Jesuits (which were the model for the Nazis and are not to be trusted). Sheehan notes that Carter is refusd information on "extraterrestrial intelligence" (well probably cause there isn't any!!) Marsha Smith is Science and Technology researcher for Congress (big deal) and Sheehan helps her out. Sheehan goes into Library of Congress and traces outline of symbols on sides of UFOs in photos (again secret military technology). Sheehan then trys to get into Vatican Library -- keep in mind that the Vatican firmly believes in aliens and is working with NASA to baptize aliens when the time is right. Sheehan refers to classified Bluebook documents (again Bluebook was a CIA disinfo project!!)

Dr. Carol Rosin, 1974 hangs with Werner Von Braun -- the NAZI SS Major who personally supervised mass slave labor and who tested rockets on civilians -- a war criminal who was insane.

Rosin goes on to praise the Nazi SS war criminal stating how there really is no E.T. threat and how we can work with the "alien cultures" just as Von Braun wanted us to. How we can achieve a technological utopia of "peace on Earth" just as Von Braun envisioned -- one that will overcome suitcase bombs, biological weapons, chemical weapons. All those Real Threats are reasons why making space weapons is pointless and that E.T. Beings have now been identified.

This is a big joke!!

So then Dr. Greer states that each of these people could individually go on for 2 to 5 hours (WOW!!) and there are 400 more witnesses (but if those are the best witnesses then this is all a waste of time!!)

Greer answers a question stating that compartmentalization caused the military to get out of control and even Clinton couldn't access this secret UFO-Alien stuff.

NO -- TECHNOLOGY IS OUT OF CONTROL -- not compartmentalization. As physicist Jeremy Bernstein stated this year -- no one really even understands the decay process of plutonium.

Greer claims we already have a complete replacement for Big Oil and Nukes but this would cause too much crisis to the N.S.C. economic areas (so that's why they have huge underground cities!!)

Greer then responds to another question about the UN stating he met with Boutrous Boutrous Gali's wife (who was in the UN when -- ??)

Clifford Stone is asked a question and Stone states he saw "57 different species" cataloged in 1989 but some of them look just like us and some have very heightened senses (gee never heard of the "Brain Port" -- a current special forces technology that gives heightened senses -- just google Brain Port). He says that there are 3 types of greys and that some are taller than humans but they are all humanoids. Stone asks why? -- if they are supposed to be from other planets. Because Stone -- they are not from other planets!!

UPI asks a question about the Alien Reproduction Vehicles. Greer states they use anti-gravity zero-point technolgy that is superliminal or faster-than-light. But Greer then states he's "just a country doctor from Virginia" -- headquarters of the CIA by the way!! Greer is adamant that this technology IS based on aliens and not -- like UPI mentions, something like the snooper program called "carnivore." UPI asks what proof Greer has. Greer states -- the witnesses of course! (Oh My God!!)

haha what a joke!!

Greer states this technology uses the ambient field to cancel mass inertia and that a 1950s RAND witness states already in the 1950s the research was bigger than the Manhatten project.

Murry Mellshen, publisher of a LANDSAT space satellite newsletter in D.C. states there are 35 million photos from space -- yet no UFOs. Greer states -- yes they've been all "sanitized out" or airbrushed but there are probably photos he hasn't seen (yes I'm sure of that!) haha. Greer states please remember there are billions of dollars to keep the public hidden from this information (yes I'm sure. haha).

Then Greer talks about patients faking kidney stone tests so they get free narcotic shots. Wow -- that's an excellent parallel !! (yawn.)

Finally Greer (a bit overly defensive) states we are liscensed professionals -- him and Sheenan -- so certainly we can not perpetuate a hoax. Greer states all his witnesses have been vetted with their DT214 Defense Forms -- big deal!!

Finally the Soap Opera Actor comes back on and states there's been 10,000 sightings but only one needs to be true.

Ah that's deeply profound (NOT!!)

Greer then states that illegal enterprise agreements are not legally binding so any more witnesses please come forward!

Wow big confidence factor here.

End of Film.

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Wow impressive debunk.. although some might say you're just adding your personal opinion.

You sound like this-

Sergent Stone says there are 57 humanoid aliens that exist.

Yeah right, they exist! in your head!

Dr Greer? He must be queer!

Mind you I don't like Dr Greer, he's an idiot. :tu:

Edited by billyhill

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People who still hold that the moon landing is a hoax, think just like this.

Explain why Steven Greer is an idiot. If you have good reason, I would gladly side with you.

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It isn't Greer that matters. Personally, I don't trust Dr. Greer myself, but I don't think that is the issue here. The question should not be, are SOME of these witnesses frauds? Instead it should be, are SOME of these witnesses telling the truth? After all, if just ONE of these over 400 witnesses are telling the truth that changes everything. Also, considering the fact that unlike Lazar these officials can PROVE who they are, I don't really see any good reason to dismiss them all as frauds.

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People who still hold that the moon landing is a hoax, think just like this.

Explain why Steven Greer is an idiot. If you have good reason, I would gladly side with you.

From Saucer smear Vol. 4, nbr. 45 (see link above)

On Feb. 23rd, Dr. Steven Greer of CSETI posted the following: "Nerve Gas Attack on ET Base Backfires on Covert Forces: A recent attack by covert forces with a deadly Sarin-like nerve gas on the ET spaceport under 14,345 foot Mount Blanca, Colorado, ended in disaster when the attacking forces were overcome by the gas and a quarter of the personnel involved had to be medically evacuated..."

In a telephone interview, Greer told a supporter that last June, while he and his group were training in the San Luis Valley, he "remote-viewed the ETs inside the mountain". People in his group saw Greer disappear in a "gold light" which seemed to be coming from above them. Then a "semi-circle of a dozen ET elders, all different sized" surrounded Greer and told him that they were "under attack in the mountain by a covert military force".

The amusing part is that another follower, named Steve Moreno, realized that the above was too Far Out to be believed, and tried to suppress it! He says, "While there are tangents of truth to this incredible report, it is premature at this time for Dr. Greer to release such information..."

Yes, very premature!...

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It isn't Greer that matters. Personally, I don't trust Dr. Greer myself, but I don't think that is the issue here. The question should not be, are SOME of these witnesses frauds? Instead it should be, are SOME of these witnesses telling the truth? After all, if just ONE of these over 400 witnesses are telling the truth that changes everything. Also, considering the fact that unlike Lazar these officials can PROVE who they are, I don't really see any good reason to dismiss them all as frauds.

Ed Mitchell Most Unhappy

With Greer Using His Name

As Disclosure Witness

From Dr. Jack Sarfatti sarfatti@well.com

Subject: Astronaut Ed Mitchell on Washington Times story of the

Greer UFO Disclosure Conference

To: Edgar Mitchell

Organization: Internet Science Education Project

5-13-1

"Steve Greer...began to overreach his data continuously"

- Edgar Mitchell

Edgar Mitchell) Jack, et al: The Washington Times (story) on UFO disclosure mentions my name as a witness for the Disclosure Project -- which I am not ...and have not been.

(Jack Sarfatti) I am not surprised at all. If you look to see who is running that CSETI Horse and Pony Disinfo Show & Tell you will recognize familiar names. Consider the source. As a Navy man and NASA Astronaut who really was Out There, you know what I mean. Smile

(Edgar Mitchell) I cooperated with Steve Greer some years ago, but he began to overreach his data continuously, necessitating a withdrawal by myself, and, I believe, several others. I have requested to be removed from any web site, announcements, etc., but see that has not taken place.

(Jack Sarfatti) Typical of politically-based influence operations. The real motive of the Press Club Event was the issue of militarization of space not UFOs, on which reasonable well meaning people can differ of course. Since many millions of voters believe UFOs are real, getting control of the UFO movement clearly is a top priority for all the players.

(Edgar Mitchell) Although I firmly believe it is time for openness and disclosure by government, I object to being misused in this fashion and acquire guilt by association with certain claims that simply are not true.

(Jack Sarfatti) I feel exactly as you do. I think you, Don Ecker and I see it eye-to-eye on this one.

(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.

--Edgar Mitchell

(Jack Sarfatti) Is The Pope Catholic? Pass it on. I certainly will. Smile

Comment

'Disclosure Project' Oversteps Bounds

From Jason Leigh jasonsos@digitex.net

5-14-1

To all,

First, thanks to Dan of UFOzone for sending me this article: http://www.rense.com/general10/mitch.htm from Jeff Rense's one-of-a-kind excellent world news website.

Second: Dr. Steven Greer used my copyrighted UFO videos to sell, promote and include in his past 'paid public lectures,' without my expressed permission.

He showed my stated UFO video tape (of June 11, 1995, © by Jason Leigh) to the U.S. Congress in 1997, as was verified by Dr. Bob Hieronimus (and was mentioned to my surprise on one of our 'on-air' radio interviews), who was present at that U.S. Congress meeting conducted by Dr. Greer, again: without my written, or expressed permission. A blatant copyright infringement . . .

I wrote to Dr. Greer, who at first, denied having ever showed this footage, but then recanted when I wrote him back and related what Dr. Bob Hieronimus had told me, stating that he (Dr. Greer) had,"forgotten."

Now, I certainly didn't mind--and was actually proud that my UFO footage was included in the presentation to the U.S. Congress back in 1997, but NOT when it was used in 'paid lectures' presented to the public and was also included in his UFO promotional videotape--which was also 'sold' for purposes for profit, or monetary gain: yet another copyright infringement.

Since the amazing broad daylight UFO was videotaped by me on June 11, 1995, I have invested over $5,000 to date to present this 'proven' footage to the world--for free. But when another would take (or steal) this copyrighted footage and profit from it without so much as a 'howdy do' to me, it certainly would have put most anyone in a mood of discontent.

It seems that the stories we have all heard of Dr. Greer and his 'non-profit' organization ('non-profit' meaning he does not offer any moneies towards charites--only towards the 'Disclosure Project') 'using' other people's research, names and photographs to promote his own project is such a derogatory issue, that we should all be infuriated by this inexcusable conduct.

I, for one, am bewildered at the attentions he has been able to reap via the paranormal and major media in his 'Disclosure Project,' which should have a post-script to it by giving credit where credit is due to the many HUNDREDS of people he has used as well as the above mentioned thief and misuse of other people's work and names, usually, and apparently: without their consent. He should be brought up on charges for his illegal actions in an attempt to force the U.S. government to admit to the reality of UFOs, but this would just bring yet another collective 'black eye' to this field of research, which is scared enough by the countless others who have perpetrated hoaxes and lies, most assuredly for personal profit and gain.

Will I sue Dr. Greer for infringing upon, and profiting from, my copyrighted video of the UFO? I am not sure at this point, although others in this field have suggested that I should--and must.

What say ye?

I affirm that the above is true, and correct. Jason Leigh http://jasonleigh.org

Comment

Dear Mr. Bassett:

With respect, the majority of the MUFON members who we surveyed believed the Greer "Disclosure Project" was unsuccessful. Moreover, most thought it set back Ufology. Here were some of their reasons:

Ufology was mixed with other issues -- like Space Based defense deployment. Space systems are a primary focus of the Bush administration. And, are were to think that sworn officers and esteemed graduates of West Point, Annapolis and the Air Force Academy are dupes who do not hold the U.S. public's interest in defense matters?

Witnesses were publicly known prior to the disclosure -- none were insiders. Only one person that he eye-witnessed (ET) alien bodies. When asked what ETs looked like, Clifford Stone's statement was ludicrous. Mr. Bassett, were these the best of 400 witnesses that Dr. Greer vetted?

ET's are not hostile... What then do we do with the work of Dr. Jacobs (and 50 years of UFO/ET studies by other researchers), abductees, ET hybrids, implants, cattle, human mutilations and hostile acts (Brazil and South Africa).

Mr. Bassett, unless Congress acts, your new Paradigm Clock setting at 11:59 PM should be reconsidered...

Respectfully,

Jerry Glass,

Director MUFON

Riverside County, CA

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name='drew hempel' date='Sep 13 2006, 09:18 PM' post='1348711']

OK I watched the Disclosure Project video:

I am familiar with some of those UFO incidents as presented by the Disclosure Project and they are well documented and have been verified. There have been those who have attempted to debunk the case files but were unsuccessful and rightly so because they offered nothing in the way of evidence to prove the case files were anything else but as what were reported, documented and corroborated by a multitude of reliable sources.

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name='Prophecy Guru' date='Sep 13 2006, 10:37 PM' post='1348800']

It isn't Greer that matters. Personally, I don't trust Dr. Greer myself, but I don't think that is the issue here. The question should not be, are SOME of these witnesses frauds? Instead it should be, are SOME of these witnesses telling the truth? After all, if just ONE of these over 400 witnesses are telling the truth that changes everything. Also, considering the fact that unlike Lazar these officials can PROVE who they are, I don't really see any good reason to dismiss them all as frauds.

The Malmstrom AFB missile incidents of 1967 and 1975 have already be verified and those cases are well-documented. Look who is listed as a Disclosure Witness in the 1967 Malmstrom AFB missile case. The well-documented JAL/UFO case file has an FAA official on the witness list as well and that incident has been verified as well.

There will always be those who attempt to debunk the Disclosure Project but as always, they have been unsuccessful as those who continue to claim the world is flat.

Edited by skyeagle409
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The Malmstrom AFB missile incidents of 1967 and 1975 have already be verified and those cases are well-documented. Look who is listed as a Disclosure Witness in the 1967 Malmstrom AFB missile case. The well-documented JAL/UFO case file has an FAA official on the witness list as well and that incident has been verified as well.

There will always be those who attempt to debunk the Disclosure Project but as always, they have been unsuccessful as those who continue to claim the world is flat.

Obviously these incidents "happened" that's not the point!!

The point is THEY WEREN'T ALIENS!!

None of those witnesses have any evidence of aliens -- and those are the best witnesses.

Disclosure Project is full of Disinfo CIA agents promoting the E.T. invasion!!

It's just a scam to promote the whole "technology will save us" if we focus on anti-gravity space tech......

meanwhile the earth runs out of water!!!

http://www.animatedsoftware.com/cassini/cass2001/nks0003.htm

CIA bunk!!

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name='drew hempel' date='Sep 14 2006, 02:18 AM' post='1349099']

Obviously these incidents "happened" that's not the point!!

The point is THEY WEREN'T ALIENS!!

I don't buy it simply because we didn't have an aircraft the size of two aircraft carriers tagging along with a Japanese cargo B-747 and that UFO was verified by mulitiple sources and we didn't have the tecnology in the field to dismantle those Minuteman missiles either and a saucer-shaped flying object was reported nearby.

Edited by skyeagle409

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I don't buy it simply because we didn't have an aircraft the size of two aircraft carriers tagging along with a Japanese cargo B-747 and that UFO was verified by mulitiple sources and we didn't have the tecnology in the field to dismantle those Minuteman missiles either and a saucer-shaped flying object was reported nearby.

Nobody's selling you anything -- just go to your library and have them order this book! Stop ignoring all the documentation of CIA DISINFO -- read "The Stargate Conspiracy" -- !!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Nick Redfern

Email: nickredfern.nul

The Government Has Been Spying On Its Citizens

For More Than 50 Years

Wake up, America. There is nothing new about President Bush's

secret domestic spying program of American citizens. The

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than half a century in the cause of national security and

particularly on those citizens who have seen, been abducted by,

or study UFOs.

The complete story is detailed in a controversial new book

called On the Trail of the Saucer Spies: UFOs and Government

Surveillance by Nick Redfern, just published by Anomalist Books.

Redfern, who was himself the subject of government surveillance

for his interest in UFOs, uses on-the-record interviews,

previously-classified official records, and testimony provided

by insider-sources to tell this amazing story about how and why

Military, Intelligence, and Government agencies of both the U.S.

and U.K. have been secretly spying on UFO witnesses and

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Highlights of On the Trail of the Saucer Spies include: the

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Yard's secret monitoring of UFO computer hackers; Secret

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1947; infiltration of UFO research groups by secret agents; and

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nations to uncover defense secrets.

Nick Redfern is one of the world=92s foremost authorities on UFOs.

His previous books include A Covert Agenda; The FBI Files;

Cosmic Crashes; Strange Secrets (with Andy Roberts); Three Men

Seeking Monsters; and Body Snatchers in the Desert. He has

written for Military Illustrated; Eye-Spy; Fate; Fortean Times;

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On The Trail Of The Saucer Spies: UFOs And Government

Surveillance

by Nick Redfern

Trade Paperback, 308 pages, illustrated, index, $15.95

ISBN: 1933665106

For more information visit: AnomalistBooks.com

Edited by drew hempel

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I don't know much about the D.P., but offhand, Clifford Stone sounds like a plant, and the moon guy sounds "lunar". He could be a plant, too. All to add confusion to the mix, and thus discredit the whole topic.

It was overly political, with the anti-weapons research jabs. Research which leads its own life, and proceeds ever-onward.

As for the Greer lunacy (out in the mountains and desert, etc...) how much of that is disinfo? Meaning, it did not happen, obviously, but who started the story, and why?

The Agency and the No Such Agency were in this, up to the limit. Probably in the capacity of monitor, then discredit.

Yet, Drew's assumption leads me to ask- what are the physics? A plausible outline would be nice...

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Nobody's selling you anything -- just go to your library and have them order this book! Stop ignoring all the documentation of CIA DISINFO -- read "The Stargate Conspiracy" -- !!

I am already aware of the CIA's disinformation campaign on UFOs but I haven't read that book yet.

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name='leadbelly' date='Sep 14 2006, 02:50 AM' post='1349124']

I don't know much about the D.P., but offhand, Clifford Stone sounds like a plant, and the moon guy sounds "lunar". He could be a plant, too. All to add confusion to the mix, and thus discredit the whole topic.

Here's an incident that is covered by the Disclosure Project. Years ago, there was a video covering this incident.

Malmstrom AFB, UFO

http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/malm1.htm

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I don't know much about the D.P., but offhand, Clifford Stone sounds like a plant, and the moon guy sounds "lunar". He could be a plant, too. All to add confusion to the mix, and thus discredit the whole topic.

It was overly political, with the anti-weapons research jabs. Research which leads its own life, and proceeds ever-onward.

As for the Greer lunacy (out in the mountains and desert, etc...) how much of that is disinfo? Meaning, it did not happen, obviously, but who started the story, and why?

The Agency and the No Such Agency were in this, up to the limit. Probably in the capacity of monitor, then discredit.

Yet, Drew's assumption leads me to ask- what are the physics? A plausible outline would be nice...

Here's my angle on this -- if you read Nick Redfern (and his work is excellent!) basically the whole Disclosure Project along with Coast To Coast promotion of Greer -- is just a psy-ops campaign that is part of the CIA going public with "anti-gravity technology."

Why would I say this? I, myself, had a very close encounter with a big, black, equilateral trianangle preceded by spheres of light doing inexplicable manuevers on the horizon, each a different color. Summer 1997.

Now Redfern has documents proving that those black triangles have been around since the 1960s and even earlier!!

Thomas Valone has researched "anti-gravity" propulsion as has Moray B. King.

I've read their books. Indeed it's also called electrogravitic technology.

You can go to any university and use the library's I.S.I. web of science citation index -- the main search engine for academic research.

Just search vortex propulsion or pulsed propulsion. There's tons of stuff on this -- even describing it as anti-gravity.

There's already antigravity research online although the "anti-matter" reseach has been taken off the web.

Positronium or antimatter research is a big part of the unified field superstring verification.

The problem with this stuff, besides vaporizing matter, is that it creates synthetic black holes that can have a chain reaction.

Even professor Timothy Ferris, the astronomer, has admitted there's a slight chance the CERN experiments could vaporize the whole planet.

He stated online -- no need to be worried because if it happens no one will know it happened!! James Blodgett is worried and he and I have corresponded about the threat of synthetic black holes.

That pretty much sums up the Mad Scientist attitude in a nut-shell.

Electrogravitic technology just creates a differential of magnetic momentum between the front and back of the craft which propels it forward as pressure waves or antigravity.

The angular momentum is fairly contained but protons can become superconducting at room temperature and it's between the proton and electron that magnetic momentum occurs.

Redfern figured out that these black triangle sightings, many in very public places, over cities and along highways, are part of a psy-op campaign to see how disabling the craft are for those unfamiliar with them.

In fact the black triangles were shown on X-Files and the sighting I had was right after X-files -- the craft flew from the horizon to right over the tree on the north end of my yard. I could have hit it with a rock -- slow, humming, flat.

I had no idea this thing had been on X-files nor did I know that it had already been sighted by hundred of people worldwide -- and clocked at Mach 15.

Curt Sutherly's book "UFO Mysteries" has some great details on the black triangle.

Sutherly is fairly strong on the Fortean, higher dimensional shape-shifting aspect of this phenomenon -- that it is just as much spiritual or higher dimensional as it is hard science technology.

Well there's definitely something to that because strong magnetic fields warp are sense of time by messing with the brain fields and also cause visions, etc. -- as Dr. Michael Persinger has documented (and I've corresponded with him about this).

So in that sense there is some sort of "alien invasion" but it's certainly helped along by CIA abductions and experiments on unwitting witnesses of these black-op projects -- just read Redfern, he's really figured this all out with lots of documents. Remember the CIA MKUltra was an extensive mad science mind control experiment with unwitting subjects.

drew hempel, MA

http://nonduality.com/hempel.htm

http://drewhempel.gnn.tv

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Here's an incident that is covered by the Disclosure Project. Years ago, there was a video covering this incident.

Malmstrom AFB, UFO

http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/malm1.htm

Skyeagle - The Malstrom AFB incident is genuinely intriguing and the objects are/were definitely unknowns. But how do you reach the conclusion that they (the objects) were alien in origin?

Regardless of the military connections you claim to have, you cannot possibly be aware of every single secret project that has been performed and tested. I would assume that a device that could interfere with the ICBMs of foreign nations would be a perfect candidate for a US black project.

Also, a logical step would be to test these devices with our (the US) own missiles.

This is not an attack on you in any way. I just fail to grasp how you can conclude that what happened that day was related to ETs.

Sorry if this OT.

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People who still hold that the moon landing is a hoax, think just like this.

Explain why Steven Greer is an idiot. If you have good reason, I would gladly side with you.

He talks to balloons. Someone fooled him and attached a light to a balloon, in a field and Dr Greer began talking to the balloon, he thought it was a UFO, he thought he was telepathically communicating with aliens.

It's a cruel trick and this type of behaviour doesn't impress me.. but still..what an idiot.

Edited by billyhill

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Here's my angle on this -- if you read Nick Redfern (and his work is excellent!) basically the whole Disclosure Project along with Coast To Coast promotion of Greer -- is just a psy-ops campaign that is part of the CIA going public with "anti-gravity technology."

Er This doesn't make much sense. Why would the CIA need a Psy-Ops for anti grav?

Lets make the public believe in aliens and then we'll tell em the truth, er UFO's are our anti gravity tech! Great psy-op :huh::w00t:

Edited by billyhill

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Er This doesn't make much sense. Why would the CIA need a Psy-Ops for anti grav?

Lets make the public believe in aliens and then we'll tell em the truth, er UFO's are our anti gravity tech! Great psy-op :huh::w00t:

Yeah the military makes A LOT of sense (the first UFO disinformation was part of the Cold War -- the CIA thought the UFOs were Russkies and then the CIA spread alien belief so that the Russkies wouldn't find out about our black ops and THEN the CIA thought the Russkies were using UFOlogists to infiltrate black ops programs).

But then the CIA totally lied about the extent of the Russkie threat -- the bomb gap, the missile gap, the Star Wars gap, etc.

Why because the CIA is Wall Street and fear creates a lot of free money from tax dupes.

Basically ever since nuclear power, technology has been completely apocalyptic -- that's why there's COG --continuity of government -- huge underground cities for the elite are in use - to continue this

MISSILE ENVY battle (get more sex because we have bigger edifice complexes).

That's what it's all about! haha.

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name='Exeter' date='Sep 14 2006, 03:33 AM' post='1349163']

Skyeagle - The Malstrom AFB incident is genuinely intriguing and the objects are/were definitely unknowns. But how do you reach the conclusion that they (the objects) were alien in origin?

Regardless of the military connections you claim to have, you cannot possibly be aware of every single secret project that has been performed and tested. I would assume that a device that could interfere with the ICBMs of foreign nations would be a perfect candidate for a US black project.

Also, a logical step would be to test these devices with our (the US) own missiles.

This is not an attack on you in any way. I just fail to grasp how you can conclude that what happened that day was related to ETs.

Sorry if this OT.

I know as a fact that no U.S. involvement was responsible for the Malmstrom AFB/UFO incident. First of all, SAC would never degrade its strategic assets for the sake of a test and an Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI) would never degrade our nuclear systems in such a manner and I have been though many ORIs in the Air Force over the years. Secondly, there are no ORI critique reports relating to that incident and in fact, the Boeing Co. and other government contractors were brought in to do their own investigations as to the cause of the missile shutdowns, so a test and an ORI are totally out of the question. The shielded cable systems were strong enough to withstand a direct hit from a lightning bolt yet investigators have stated that only an external electromagnetic pulse would be capable of dismantling the Minuteman missiles. The folks at SAC headquarters were alarmed that our national strategic missile assets were shutdown and that sent the generals scrambling. A saucer-shaped UFO was sent hovering near the area at the time of the interference by Air Force security personnel and this wasn't the first time a saucer-shaped UFOs have tampered with our nuclear assets as noted on the Department of Defense's website in the UFO section that not many people were aware of..

UFOs that interfered with our nukes were often called "helicopters" as they were called in Vietnam so the public would not take notice. Other SAC bases and nuclear facilities were also affected by saucer-shaped UFOs as well. UFOs also affected Loring AFB, Minot AFB, Los Alamos, Kirtland AFB, and at RAF Bent-Waters where a UFO changed the nuke codes on warheads and even Soviet nuke missiles were affected. In 1975, the UFOs revisited Malmstrom AFB and this time NORAD scrambled two F-106 Delta Darts. Eventually, NORAD last track of one of the UFOs when it climbed above 200,000 feet when the jets arrived in the area. In the case of the Minot AFB UFO incident, a B-52 crew made visual confirmation of the UFO that was also tracked by ground-based radar and confirmed that the UFO was an artificial flying object and we didn‘t have ‘flying saucers‘ that could mimic the performance of those objects..

http://www.nicap.org/malmstrom75-1.htm

UFOs were often seen in that part of the country and UFOs also affected another base and the story on that incident is as follows.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <^>

1968-Minot Air Force Base, UFO Hovers, Seen by B-52 crew

What we have, then, was a group of sightings made by men on the ground, at the missile sites scattered around the base. There were radar sightings from ground and weather's radar. There were visual sightings from the crew of the B-52, and an airborne radar sighting where the target traveled at 3,000 miles per hour. Scope photographs were taken. There were sightings made by S.Sgt. Bond the FSC at Nov. Flight, S.Sgt. Smith at Oscar-1, Julelt, and Mike Flight Team and a number of men in widely scattered locations. The object landed at location AA-43 and the entire observation lasted for 45 minutes. Fourteen other people in separate locations also reported the UFO. Security alarm were activated for both the outer and inner ring at the missile sites. When the guards arrived at the outer door it was open and the combination lock on the inner door had been moved.

Three armed teams in fast trucks pursued the alien vehicle as it maneuvered and finally stopped and hovered 500 feet off the ground. The strike teams held their fire. They had orders to capture it undamaged if it should land. Then abruptly it began moving once again and circling directly over a launch control facility. Back at Minot, F-106 fighter planes were awaiting orders from the North American Air Defense Command to launch an attack. Base operations became impatient and had just decided to scramble the jets without confirmation. Suddenly the UFO climbed straight up and streaked away at incredible speed.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/minotafb.html

http://www.ufocasebook.com/minotafbufo1968.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <^>

The video of interviews with the B-52 crew in this incident was shown on TV about a month ago. To sum it up, those UFOs were definitely not secret aircraft of the military and you can also review the official documents on those bases and the incident at Loring AFB on the Department of Defense website on the UFO section. The Pentagon knows that those objects were not our secret aircraft yet those UFOs were real artificial flying objects whose outstanding performance characteristics were noted by the military.

Edited by skyeagle409

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I know as a fact that no U.S. involvement was responsible for the Malmstrom AFB/UFO incident. First of all, SAC would never degrade its strategic assets for the sake of a test and an Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI) would never degrade our nuclear systems in such a manner and I have been though many ORIs in the Air Force over the years. Secondly, there are no ORI critique reports relating to that incident and in fact, the Boeing Co. and other government contractors were brought in to do their own investigations as to the cause of the missile shutdowns, so a test and an ORI are totally out of the question. The shielded cable systems were strong enough to withstand a direct hit from a lightning bolt yet investigators have stated that only an external electromagnetic pulse would be capable of dismantling the Minuteman missiles. The folks at SAC headquarters were alarmed that our national strategic missile assets were shutdown and that sent the generals scrambling. A saucer-shaped UFO was sent hovering near the area at the time of the interference by Air Force security personnel and this wasn't the first time a saucer-shaped UFOs have tampered with our nuclear assets as noted on the Department of Defense's website in the UFO section that not many people were aware of..

UFOs that interfered with our nukes were often called "helicopters" as they were called in Vietnam so the public would not take notice. Other SAC bases and nuclear facilities were also affected by saucer-shaped UFOs as well. UFOs also affected Loring AFB, Minot AFB, Los Alamos, Kirtland AFB, and at RAF Bent-Waters where a UFO changed the nuke codes on warheads and even Soviet nuke missiles were affected. In 1975, the UFOs revisited Malmstrom AFB and this time NORAD scrambled two F-106 Delta Darts. Eventually, NORAD last track of one of the UFOs when it climbed above 200,000 feet when the jets arrived in the area. In the case of the Minot AFB UFO incident, a B-52 crew made visual confirmation of the UFO that was also tracked by ground-based radar and confirmed that the UFO was an artificial flying object and we didn‘t have ‘flying saucers‘ that could mimic the performance of those objects..

http://www.nicap.org/malmstrom75-1.htm

UFOs were often seen in that part of the country and UFOs also affected another base and the story on that incident is as follows.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <^>

1968-Minot Air Force Base, UFO Hovers, Seen by B-52 crew

What we have, then, was a group of sightings made by men on the ground, at the missile sites scattered around the base. There were radar sightings from ground and weather's radar. There were visual sightings from the crew of the B-52, and an airborne radar sighting where the target traveled at 3,000 miles per hour. Scope photographs were taken. There were sightings made by S.Sgt. Bond the FSC at Nov. Flight, S.Sgt. Smith at Oscar-1, Julelt, and Mike Flight Team and a number of men in widely scattered locations. The object landed at location AA-43 and the entire observation lasted for 45 minutes. Fourteen other people in separate locations also reported the UFO. Security alarm were activated for both the outer and inner ring at the missile sites. When the guards arrived at the outer door it was open and the combination lock on the inner door had been moved.

Three armed teams in fast trucks pursued the alien vehicle as it maneuvered and finally stopped and hovered 500 feet off the ground. The strike teams held their fire. They had orders to capture it undamaged if it should land. Then abruptly it began moving once again and circling directly over a launch control facility. Back at Minot, F-106 fighter planes were awaiting orders from the North American Air Defense Command to launch an attack. Base operations became impatient and had just decided to scramble the jets without confirmation. Suddenly the UFO climbed straight up and streaked away at incredible speed.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/minotafb.html

http://www.ufocasebook.com/minotafbufo1968.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <^>

The video of interviews with the B-52 crew in this incident was shown on TV about a month ago. To sum it up, those UFOs were definitely not secret aircraft of the military and you can also review the official documents on those bases and the incident at Loring AFB on the Department of Defense website on the UFO section. The Pentagon knows that those objects were not our secret aircraft yet those UFOs were real artificial flying objects whose outstanding performance characteristics were noted by the military.

Have you read Nick Redfern's book "On the Trail of the Saucer Spies"?

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name='drew hempel' date='Sep 15 2006, 02:20 AM' post='1350680']

Have you read Nick Redfern's book "On the Trail of the Saucer Spies"?

Not yet!

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Oh my another sales pitch, big surprise nick....er....I mean drew

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Oh my another sales pitch, big surprise nick....er....I mean drew

Yeah I get a big kick back from all sales of the latest books on the subject of this forum!

Also recommended Curt Sutherly's "UFO Mysteries" and http://tricksterbook.com

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If you are going to diss someone at least spell his name correctly. Dr. Wernher von Braun was not a war criminal and did not supervise slave labor. Please get your facts straight. :mellow:

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