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darkninja

Where did Lucifer fall?

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I was wondering if anyone has any info on this. I remember reading somewhere that the spot where Lucifer hit the ground when he fell from the heavens is one of the most cursed spots in the world. Although I know Lucifer's fall from heaven is more literal than actual (meaning he fell from the ways and will of God), I read this somewhere and couldn't find anything on the internet or the UM forums about this. Just wondering if anyone had any info or ideas.

Also, I wasn't really sure where to post this, so I decided to post here.

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I seem to recall that "the spot where Lucifer fell" was featured in the last Exorcist movie.

But in truth, Lucifer never "fell" becasue Lucifer never existed. There is no fallen angel named Lucifer in either the Old or New Testament. This character wasn't invented until long after the New Testament books were formulated. This has been discussed at length here on UM several times. The Lucifer passage in the Bible refers to the human King of Babylon. There are no fallen angels in the Bible at all, and Satan of the Old Testament is an obedient servant of God.

All of this evil Satan and Lucifier stuff was invented by the Christian Church to have a new religion filled with pagan dualistic ideas to make it popular to their pagan recruits. It is not in the OT scriptures recognized by Jesus.

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Regardless of whether or not it is contained in the OT or NT (which can be debated forever and a day based on alternate translations, views of the time, etc etc etc), it is an accepted part of faith and dogma in the modern church.

I doubt that there are really places which are tremendously cursed, but I might say the field of armageddon (I'll have to look up the precise original spelling) in Palestine... that's where we get the term Armageddon and has been the site of more battles (and death) than any other place on earth (that we know of)... Everyone from Alexander to Napoleon fought there.

Just an idea. Plus it fits nicely with Revelations and various other apocolyptic texts.

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Regardless of whether or not it is contained in the OT or NT (which can be debated forever and a day based on alternate translations, views of the time, etc etc etc), it is an accepted part of faith and dogma in the modern church.

I doubt that there are really places which are tremendously cursed, but I might say the field of armageddon (I'll have to look up the precise original spelling) in Palestine... that's where we get the term Armageddon and has been the site of more battles (and death) than any other place on earth (that we know of)... Everyone from Alexander to Napoleon fought there.

Just an idea. Plus it fits nicely with Revelations and various other apocolyptic texts.

Huh? It cant be "debated forever and a day". Its a misstranslation. Christianitys facts are from the bible. And the fact is, it refers to a babylonian king and the translation was suppose to be day star. Or Venus. Sometimes venus appears at day but its glory(just as the kings) pales in comparison to the suns glory(as in God). And it was talking about god casting down the king. Isreals opresser.

Now Satan started from Job which was a accusing angel or literaly it meant adversary. Everyone whose against you is satan.

The falling angels bit came from the book of Enoch (only book that mentions such a thing).

Judaism and the council of Nicea both rejected it.

Anyways.

There is no one named Lucifer, its just venus. The day or morning star. Its actualy a planet though.

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Tunguska - June 30, 1908

user posted image

When powerful beings enter our atmosphere, they do not leave a crater on earth, rather, they arrive like this ...

"For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be."Matt. 24:27

The Russians collected a number of accounts from eyewitnesses at the trading station, which was probably the closest permanent habitation. These included:[Link]

user posted image

Witness #1

"I was sitting on the porch of the house at the trading station, looking north. Suddenly in the north...the sky was split in two, and high above the forest the whole northern part of the sky appeared covered with fire. I felt a great heat, as if my shirt had caught fire... At that moment there was a bang in the sky, and a mighty crash... I was thrown twenty feet from the porch and lost consciousness for a moment.... The crash was followed by a noise like stones falling from the sky, or guns firing. The earth trembled.... At the moment when the sky opened, a hot wind, as if from a cannon, blew past the huts from the north. It damaged the onion plants. Later, we found that many panes in the windows had been blown out and the iron hasp in the barn door had been broken."

A second witness said:

"I saw the sky in the north open to the ground and fire poured out. The fire was brighter than the sun. We were terrified, but the sky closed again and immediately afterward, bangs like gunshots were heard. We thought stones were falling... I ran with my head down and covered, because I was afraid stones may fall on it."

Note:

This marked the beginning of the increase in knowledge and rapid human transit on the earth, predicted by the prophet [Daniel 12:4,] for within days Wilbur Wright made his first official public demonstration of manned flight on August 8, 1908, at the race track of Le Mans, France. [Link]

The Devil arrived just in time to witness this important event ... [attachmentid=28577]

The Mystery of Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots had been accomplished. [Rev. 17:5]

post-42343-1159418969.jpg

Edited by Raptor Witness

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I seem to recall that "the spot where Lucifer fell" was featured in the last Exorcist movie.

But in truth, Lucifer never "fell" becasue Lucifer never existed. There is no fallen angel named Lucifer in either the Old or New Testament. This character wasn't invented until long after the New Testament books were formulated. This has been discussed at length here on UM several times. The Lucifer passage in the Bible refers to the human King of Babylon. There are no fallen angels in the Bible at all, and Satan of the Old Testament is an obedient servant of God.

All of this evil Satan and Lucifier stuff was invented by the Christian Church to have a new religion filled with pagan dualistic ideas to make it popular to their pagan recruits. It is not in the OT scriptures recognized by Jesus.

and are you a professional historian? I don't think so. the Bible must be right somehow because there's alot of powerful Christians out there (I mean spiritually) All that's important is that you would do was Jesus would, Christian means Christ like and that's mostly important.

if satan didn't exist, who was the leader of the music in heaven? and the most good looking angel? it's all in the Bible, did you ever even read the Bible? because, compared to my knowledge you can't be right, no offense. :tu:

Edited by fallingalien

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A fallen angel doesn't literally 'fall'. The 'fall' is the fall from grace with God. However, angels have thrones in the Heavens (stars) and when they fall they are cast off their thrones and no place is thenceforth found for them (unless they find salvation, and yes fallen angels CAN get back into Heaven, Satanail is one of them) so they can still go up to Heaven but eventually they fall back to where they are cast down to. That is usually Earth.

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I have no idea how knowledgeable Draconic Chronicler is of the bible but i am pretty sure he is right.

For certainty however i suggest you ask Mako who IS a professional historian.

I am pretty sure he will give a similar answer.

And i do recall DC mentioning a book he is writing. so perhaps he IS a professinal Historian

And as for the Tungaska event. That was either a meteor or a comet.

I mean sure the UFO theory is OK but the falling demon/angel theory is just silly.

EDIT FOR TYPOS

Edited by AtlantisRises

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Lucifer never fell from anywhere. This term is used only once in the Bible and it is in reference to a Babylonian king. There was no "fall". This is a misnomer.

John J. Robinson A Pilgrim's Path, pp. 47-48:

"Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?

The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").

The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and--ironically--the Prince of Darkness.

So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James version of the Bible, who say 'Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God'...."

Here’s a brief synopsis of The Origins of Satan by Professor Elaine Pagels (Princeton University):

“Pagels charts the evolution of the Jewish and Christian concept of evil from Old Testament times to the present day (although the majority of the book deals with the New Testament era). She explains how ' Satan ' didn't always refer to an evil being but was initially used to represent an obstacle. After that meaning, it evolved into a meaning which was used to unify your group against your enemies/adversaries or 'satan'. The Jews still don't, nor did they ever, believe in or create the Satan/Devil being/creature/character of Christian lore.

It wasn't until New Testament times and later that the concept of an evil being who is actually called 'Satan' or the 'Devil' or ' Lucifer ' evolved. It is interesting to see how these concepts have continued to persist throughout religious and political history with groups stigmatizing others not in their group (whether it be religious, political, racial, etc.) as being 'of the devil'. Dictatorships and other authoritarian organizations always need an external enemy to bind their followers together.”

The Origins of Satan

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067973118...TF8&s=books

Kindly,

Sean

Edited by seanph
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There are fallen angels in the bible,and it talks about God casting down Satan to the Earth after Satan thought he was too wise and tried to BE God ,Ezekiel 28:16-18

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I seem to recall that "the spot where Lucifer fell" was featured in the last Exorcist movie.

But in truth, Lucifer never "fell" becasue Lucifer never existed. There is no fallen angel named Lucifer in either the Old or New Testament. This character wasn't invented until long after the New Testament books were formulated. This has been discussed at length here on UM several times. The Lucifer passage in the Bible refers to the human King of Babylon. There are no fallen angels in the Bible at all, and Satan of the Old Testament is an obedient servant of God.

All of this evil Satan and Lucifier stuff was invented by the Christian Church to have a new religion filled with pagan dualistic ideas to make it popular to their pagan recruits. It is not in the OT scriptures recognized by Jesus.

And how do you know this?? Isn't there a such thing as not calling other's religions false and such?? Try this with Wiccan or something else and see what is said back to ya!! :tu: You can't say for sure that Lucifer isn't real!! You don't know that. But those that do believe, believe in him & God and they're beautiful loving faith is what carries them.

I have no idea how knowledgeable Draconic Chronicler is of the bible but i am pretty sure he is right.

For certainty however i suggest you ask Mako who IS a professional historian.

I am pretty sure he will give a similar answer.

And i do recall DC mentioning a book he is writing. so perhaps he IS a professinal Historian

And as for the Tungaska event. That was either a meteor or a comet.

I mean sure the UFO theory is OK but the falling demon/angel theory is just silly.

EDIT FOR TYPOS

Mako is a intelligent guy but yet he is also wise in his words of choosing if you get my point. I would suggest they ask someone that has an open mind and is accepting of everyone and they're beliefs then they will be given a true open understanding!! :tu:

But yes--when Lucifer fell from heaven then it meant he fell from grace of God and was put in a feiry pit for eternity. And that all his angels which was I think 2/3 of the angels in heaven followed him.

Edited by starlitkate

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A fallen angel doesn't literally 'fall'. The 'fall' is the fall from grace with God. However, angels have thrones in the Heavens (stars) and when they fall they are cast off their thrones and no place is thenceforth found for them (unless they find salvation, and yes fallen angels CAN get back into Heaven, Satanail is one of them) so they can still go up to Heaven but eventually they fall back to where they are cast down to. That is usually Earth.

Does that mean Ashley, that every fallen angel, even this Satanail is destined to always fall, have fallen once and strayed from God they are more likely to reoffend? Also I would like to know from whence you got your information about Satanail?? :devil:

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I seem to recall that "the spot where Lucifer fell" was featured in the last Exorcist movie.

But in truth, Lucifer never "fell" becasue Lucifer never existed. There is no fallen angel named Lucifer in either the Old or New Testament. This character wasn't invented until long after the New Testament books were formulated. This has been discussed at length here on UM several times. The Lucifer passage in the Bible refers to the human King of Babylon. There are no fallen angels in the Bible at all, and Satan of the Old Testament is an obedient servant of God.

All of this evil Satan and Lucifier stuff was invented by the Christian Church to have a new religion filled with pagan dualistic ideas to make it popular to their pagan recruits. It is not in the OT scriptures recognized by Jesus.

Is this really true? The bible doesn't even mention satan as being evil? Please verify what you have said.

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Is this really true? The bible doesn't even mention satan as being evil? Please verify what you have said.

Put into Google the words Satan and Bible then hit search.

You should get the passages you wish to see.

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We now know that the two terms used in the Hebrew text of Isaiah, Helel, morning star, and Shahar dawn, were Babylonian astral deities (which is reflected in most modern translations).

Chapter 14 then begins with the promise of Israel’s return from Babylonian exile, a theme that dominates the middle section of Isaiah (40-55). Part of that return would involve the downfall of the tyrant king of Babylon (v. 4; probably Nebuchadrezzer; for the same language used of a later Babylonian ruler, Belshazzar, see Dan 5:20). In that context, verses 12-21 are a poetic picture of that downfall. Helel, morning star, and Shahar, dawn, then, are references to the Babylonian gods who could not save the king, and are themselves to be cast down. In fact, there is probably a reference here to the habit of ancient Near Eastern kings proclaiming themselves incarnations of the gods; with the fall of the kings, the gods also fell, often physically as the images that represented them were pulled down and destroyed (recall the symbolism of the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad).source

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the answer to the original question is Babylon.

user posted image

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and are you a professional historian? I don't think so. the Bible must be right somehow because there's alot of powerful Christians out there (I mean spiritually) All that's important is that you would do was Jesus would, Christian means Christ like and that's mostly important.

if satan didn't exist, who was the leader of the music in heaven? and the most good looking angel? it's all in the Bible, did you ever even read the Bible? because, compared to my knowledge you can't be right, no offense. :tu:

Actually, Falling Alien, I never said "Satan didn't exist" as you erroneously claim, and in truth, I really am a "professional historian". Some of my books are printed in German, French, and Italian, as well as English and sold in the bookshops of major museums. If you watch the History Channel, you may very well have seen me several times on programs related to ancient Rome and Greece.

My latest book which I hope will be out by Christmas strips off the later Roman Catholic mythology and explains the story of the real Satan of the ancient scriptures which has nothing to do with imaginary fallen angels.

I never said that Satan didn't exist, the Bible says he is very real, and in Job, he is called one of the Sons of God, and is an obedient servant, which is a far cry from the "mythical satan of modern christian mythology. What I actually said was that a fallen angel named Lucifer doesn't exist. It is a mistranslation as other people have stated here as well, and there are many web sites you can find that explains this in great detail.

I don't know where you people get the idea Satan "led" the heavenly choir because it is not in the Bible. But there may be a ring of truth in it becasue the only physical description of the Biblical Satan is that of a "fiery red dragon", and he is also a dragon in other ancient Jewish scriptures which are not a part of the actual Old Testament books, but often add additional details to the Bible, (like the dragon who nearly swallows, but spews out Moses because he displeased God by not circumcising his son).

But back to the "Heavenly Choir", the only creatures that sing praises to God in the Bible are also dragons. In Psalms it states that dragons sing praises to God. And in Isaiah it says Seraphim sing praises to God. And what does the word Seraphim mean? "Flying Fiery Serpents" in the originall Hebrew, which is another way of saying "Dragons" and if that were not enough proof, when the word Seraphim was translated from Hebrew into Greek, the Greek word it became was "Drakone" (which is where the modern word dragon comes from).

So whether you care to believe it or not, in the authentic, original Bible, untainted by modern Christian myths and mistranslations, the highest heavenly creatures are man-eating, soul consuming, fire spewing, scaly reptilian dragons that also happend to gather around the throne of God and sing praises in his name, and if you take the Book of Revelation as the literal truth, these dragons will return to earth ridden by angels and destroy one third of the human race. You can even find original ancient Christian mosaics frescoes and bible covers depicting God on a throne of two dragons (the covering Cherubs), usually at least one of these dragons is gobbling up a sinner who did not pass judgement.

The "belly" of these dragons was even the original concept of the punishment of Hell, which did not go out of style until Dante's best selling book which brought us the modern underground "cartoon hell" ruled by Satan.

I guess they never told you about all of this cool stuff in Sunday School, did they? It might give the kiddies nightmares I suspect.

Edited by draconic chronicler
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Wow, you seem to know your stuff. What is your real name?

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Actually, Falling Alien, I never said "Satan didn't exist" as you erroneously claim, and in truth, I really am a "professional historian". Some of my books are printed in German, French, and Italian, as well as English and sold in the bookshops "blah blah blah" ...

I guess they never told you about all of this cool stuff in Sunday School, did they? It might give the kiddies nightmares I suspect.

Well i'm new to these forums, and i was thinking this is a rather useless answer to the question, as it doesnt answer the question at hand, rather divert it into some useless explanation which only hints to an actual answer.

"According to the Bible, Satan was cast out of Heaven and into the Earth along with one third of the angels. He was made the Prince and Ruler of the Earth."

Here's some quotes from the bible to back them up.

Revelation 12:9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

John 12:31: Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

According to the bible, lucifer (as i like to call him, it may be a mistake by christian translators) was cast out of heaven for trying to rule over god, he and many angels who followed him failed and was casted out of heaven and according to the qoutes above, earth.

Judaism doesnt have a satan in there bible, as it is believed that god created both good and evil of this world.

Prophecies in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are thought by some to be referring metaphorically to Satan, rather than to the king of Babylon. Babylon in Revelation is a symbol for an evil world, one of which Satan would be head in the Tribulational period of the end times.

Wow, that just dissproved your theory of how it was all modern day christians theology...

Now to sum up the answer if you're a christian

- Lucifer Fell to earth

- The Bible states that he still roams heaven and earth

- He's not locked away in hell

- No further information documents where he fell, just that it was before mankind appeared on earth.

And now i shallt take my leave of this thread ^^

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Pardon me, I may be new to this christian thing, but how can you say your post just disproved the theory set forth by Draconic C. that it's all modern day christians theology, while using excerpts of judeo-christian scripture so as to make that point!?

The jewish faith has no devil, but Numbers 22:22 proves it does recognize an Adversary or Deceiver, like unto a "satan" aka = sin-tet-nun sofit

Edited by GoddessWhispers

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Well i'm new to these forums, and i was thinking this is a rather useless answer to the question, as it doesnt answer the question at hand, rather divert it into some useless explanation which only hints to an actual answer.

"According to the Bible, Satan was cast out of Heaven and into the Earth along with one third of the angels. He was made the Prince and Ruler of the Earth."

Here's some quotes from the bible to back them up.

Revelation 12:9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

John 12:31: Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

According to the bible, lucifer (as i like to call him, it may be a mistake by christian translators) was cast out of heaven for trying to rule over god, he and many angels who followed him failed and was casted out of heaven and according to the qoutes above, earth.

Judaism doesnt have a satan in there bible, as it is believed that god created both good and evil of this world.

Prophecies in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are thought by some to be referring metaphorically to Satan, rather than to the king of Babylon. Babylon in Revelation is a symbol for an evil world, one of which Satan would be head in the Tribulational period of the end times.

Wow, that just dissproved your theory of how it was all modern day christians theology...

Now to sum up the answer if you're a christian

- Lucifer Fell to earth

- The Bible states that he still roams heaven and earth

- He's not locked away in hell

- No further information documents where he fell, just that it was before mankind appeared on earth.

And now i shallt take my leave of this thread ^^

You obviously no nothing about the real Bible. Judaism most certainly does have a Satan, in the book of Job, he is counted as one of the Sons of God. In the Jewish Encyclopedia his is the Prosecutor of Man in the Heavenly court. Throughout the Old Testament he continues to go on missions for God, and nothing in those books says anything about him revolting agains God.

This is Christian nonsense. Chritians were former pagans. They did not understand the concept of a monotheism. As pagans, they could only understand dualism. So they invented a devil, and took the name "Satan" out of the Old Testament, even though the Satan of the Old Testament is a Son of God and apparently God made him (according to Jesus), "the Lord of this World". This is all from the real Bible. The only Bible Jesus ever endorsed: the books of the Old Testament. Would Jesus have approved of the pagan blasphemy that fill the New Testament? Eveidentally not. According to that book he was going to return in the same generation of his diciples. Well he didn't. Just maybe it was becasue the New Testament is a blasphemy agains God, and his highest servants.

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You obviously no nothing about the real Bible. Judaism most certainly does have a Satan, in the book of Job, he is counted as one of the Sons of God. In the Jewish Encyclopedia his is the Prosecutor of Man in the Heavenly court. Throughout the Old Testament he continues to go on missions for God, and nothing in those books says anything about him revolting agains God.

This is Christian nonsense. Chritians were former pagans. They did not understand the concept of a monotheism. As pagans, they could only understand dualism. So they invented a devil, and took the name "Satan" out of the Old Testament, even though the Satan of the Old Testament is a Son of God and apparently God made him (according to Jesus), "the Lord of this World". This is all from the real Bible. The only Bible Jesus ever endorsed: the books of the Old Testament. Would Jesus have approved of the pagan blasphemy that fill the New Testament? Eveidentally not. According to that book he was going to return in the same generation of his diciples. Well he didn't. Just maybe it was becasue the New Testament is a blasphemy agains God, and his highest servants.

"Judaism has no devil, there is no embodiment of evil who tempts us, as in Christianity. The Jewish view is very different than that portrayed by Christains. I hope this will be clear by the end of this post."

He is the accuser, yes but he is no evil, he is a servant... ;)

Obviously Draconic disbelieves all religions dating after Judaism, so i see there must be some sort of biast within your words.

And to make the point about jeudo-christian information, the bible as other monotheistic religions have different stories to tell, christianity is one example using the Old testament (A strongly judaist book) in the final book, however the story somewhat derives from the original jewish text, yet this is considered canon in the Christian Religion.

You need to look at this topic from a christian point of view, i'm not religious in anyway...i'm an atheist, so for this topic to be delivered a succesful answer, one must believe the christian religion to be true.

Christianity was derived from the teachings of jesus, and his story documented by the apostles, all of them were given ranks by jesus so saying that the new testament is wrong is just another ploy in your game. ;)

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I seem to recall that "the spot where Lucifer fell" was featured in the last Exorcist movie.

But in truth, Lucifer never "fell" becasue Lucifer never existed. There is no fallen angel named Lucifer in either the Old or New Testament. This character wasn't invented until long after the New Testament books were formulated. This has been discussed at length here on UM several times. The Lucifer passage in the Bible refers to the human King of Babylon. There are no fallen angels in the Bible at all, and Satan of the Old Testament is an obedient servant of God.

All of this evil Satan and Lucifier stuff was invented by the Christian Church to have a new religion filled with pagan dualistic ideas to make it popular to their pagan recruits. It is not in the OT scriptures recognized by Jesus.

If I am correct, Lucifer is actually Satans name. And Satan was thrown out of the kingdom of heaven because he wanted to overpower God.

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If I am correct, Lucifer is actually Satans name. And Satan was thrown out of the kingdom of heaven because he wanted to overpower God.

I don't know. I've just always heard Lucifer. But I've heard that in the OT, the devil's allegory is the story of the king of Tyre. And I'm not sure what to make of "Satan" in Job. He is certainly in there, but his role is consistent with what Jesus refers to. Satan is the accuser, Jesus the advocate (or prosecutor and defense attorney, as it may be). All the angels (even fallen ones) were refered to as "sons of God."

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Lucifer is meanto be the real name of Satan, according to christian demonology.

"As shown, the evidence regarding that "the sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6 are fallen angels is substantial. By their sexual immorality, these angels produced offspring which were strong and violent. The concept of a race of giants which resulted from the union of gods and humans is virtually universal in the world's early civilizations."

There were 3 theories surrounding the sons of god and this was the most plausable, in that the supposed that the offspring reproduced by these "sons of god" were eradicated during the great flood, so the best possible explanation surrounding this is the fallen angels, who were cast out from heaven into the earth along with lucifer, and fornicated with human females.

Satan is meanto be the embodiment of evil, the tempter, he who tempted adam and eve to take the apple from the tree.

Satan/Lucifer is different in the eyes of each religion, Islam say he was made out of smokeless fire, and bickering that he was greater than man to god (man was made out of clay) he was cast out of heaven, thus the reason why he tempted adam and eve was to prove his superiority.

Lucifer/Satan means the same thing in the christian bible, satan is his renowned name, lucifer is meanto be his personal name.

I hope this has explained everything :tu:

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Lucifer is meanto be the real name of Satan, according to christian demonology.

"As shown, the evidence regarding that "the sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6 are fallen angels is substantial. By their sexual immorality, these angels produced offspring which were strong and violent. The concept of a race of giants which resulted from the union of gods and humans is virtually universal in the world's early civilizations."

There were 3 theories surrounding the sons of god and this was the most plausable, in that the supposed that the offspring reproduced by these "sons of god" were eradicated during the great flood, so the best possible explanation surrounding this is the fallen angels, who were cast out from heaven into the earth along with lucifer, and fornicated with human females.

Satan is meanto be the embodiment of evil, the tempter, he who tempted adam and eve to take the apple from the tree.

Satan/Lucifer is different in the eyes of each religion, Islam say he was made out of smokeless fire, and bickering that he was greater than man to god (man was made out of clay) he was cast out of heaven, thus the reason why he tempted adam and eve was to prove his superiority.

Lucifer/Satan means the same thing in the christian bible, satan is his renowned name, lucifer is meanto be his personal name.

I hope this has explained everything :tu:

No, you haven't. It is fully documented that Lucifer is a complete Christain fabrication that appears nowhere in the Bible. This is mentioned many times in Posts here on UM. Go to the Jewish Encyclopedia. There is NO LUCIFER in the orignal Hebrew scriptures. Not even Jesus uses this name, becasuse Lucifer was not invented by the Chritian Church until around the 5th century AD.

Nor does anything in the Old Testament imply Satan is a fallen angel. Why is he still working for God throughout the Old Testament, and why would Jesus call him the Lord of this World if he were a fallen enemy of God?

Satan cannot be a trusted servant of God in the ONLY scripture endorsed by Jesus, and then have his disciples say he is the fallen enemy of God. I am surprised you do not see the contradiction in this.

Never is Satan called an Angel. He is only called a dragon or a serpent. Therfore he is a Seraph, a word which in Hebrew means fiery flying serpent, and translated by both early Christians and anicent Jews to the Greek word Drakon, which is where our modern word Dragon is derived.

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