Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
dancin'hamster

Wendigo?

23 posts in this topic

After reading Gary's post on my last thread, I found this little story and thought it may interest you all

'This incident happened to my older brother when he was 18 or so, which would make it 1976 or 1977. He told my my family about what happened to him at the time and I don't think anyone really believed him. It made quite an impression on me, being only 9 or 10 at the time. I recently asked him if he'd made up the story (which he would admit now, believe me), and said that it really had happened and retold it.

He and a friend (who brought his dog) took off after school on a Friday to go camping at Little Eightmile Lake, which is in the Enchantments region of the North Cascades mountains, near Leavenworth, Washington. From the parking area it's about five miles to the lake, and in a national forest, so there's no one else around other than other hikers. They set up camp by the lake, ate, and leaving the pots and dishes around the fire, hit the sack in their tent. I know that now fires are forbidden, but they must have been okay then, or they were being scofflaws. Anyway, they were awakened in the middle of the night by the sound of something crashing around in the trees around their tent. My brother said that it then began running through the camp site, scattering the cookware and making a noise that he says he can't compare to anything else. He retold this story to me in the mid-80s and at the time Buick was running TV commercials in which at the end, a hawk or some bird of prey screams. He said that's the closest he can describe it, but it was much too loud to be a bird and too deep in pitch.

By this time his friend's dog was freaking out trying to get out of the tent (which was zipped up), and also trying to bark frantically, but it had had its vocal chords cut, so could only rasp, which made the whole thing even more unsettling. They could see the shadow of the thing against the tent walls (either it was a moonlit night, or the fire's embers were glowing enough, not sure) and he said it was big - at the time he thought it might be an elk for some reason. At some point the thing began pelting the sides of the tent with small rocks and circling the tent. After more crashing around the tent and screaming whatever it was made an exit through the woods.

They didn't open the tent (or sleep) until first light. Outside the tent all their gear was scattered, and a metal cooking pot was partly flattened. He said that large branches had been pushed or kicked or thrown into the clearing they were camping in, and although the dirt was disturbed in the area, there weren't any footprints they could find.'

sooooooooo............was it a Sasquatch? A Wendigo? An anti-social camper?

Hammy x x x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sooooooooo............was it a Sasquatch? A Wendigo? An anti-social camper?

An anti-social camper tongue.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crikey, Hammy...Are you sure it wasn't the Blair Witch?

I'm always surprised that people go camping. Fast asleep in the middle of nowhere, with god knows what lurking around.

What are the local folklore stories for that area?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OMG Hammy........This makes my camping trip sound like a w/end in Disneyland!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sad.gif

Keep em comin tho thumbsup.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what else could it be but a chupacabra? laugh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what else could it be but a chupacabra? laugh.gif

moe,it seems that you have that clear hate towards chupas,base on your other posts as well.Just out of curiosity,why?? original.gif

(Did they broke into your house the last time around and stole your cheese??If it's a yes,then I'd be mad at them too!! tongue.gifgrin2.gif )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd wager it was a prank meant to scare your brother. I fully believe in Sasquatch but the 'squatches have received an undeserved bad reputation for throwing stones, tantrums, chasing people, vandalism, etc. Why if that was the case would a creature do something like that? And if they did as often as people say they do than why isn't there at least one picture showing a Sasquatch clearly? We have tons of footage of "When Animals Attack!!!". The truth is they don't terrorize people, and most accounts of Sasquatch are lies, or pranks played on the people involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what else could it be but a chupacabra?  laugh.gif

moe,it seems that you have that clear hate towards chupas,base on your other posts as well.Just out of curiosity,why?? original.gif

LOL. Yes they did steal my cheese! thumbsup.giflaugh.gif

No, i dont hate chupas. I just think that a goat sucking government experiment is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

But since everyone else is throwing out the "ufo" or "gods will" or "the GOVERMENT" ideas to explain the uknown, i have taken it upon myself to use the infamous chupacabra. I have to be conspiriatorial about something if i want to fit in here.

Though I must admit, the neighbors have been none to thrilled about me yelling "El Chupacabra! EL CUPACABRA" out the windows at thier children. whistling2.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was probably just a bear or a wild boar ..?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't the Wendigo a Native AMerican Myth? thumbsup.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

question: Why would a Sasquatch throw a tantrum? Why would it throw things, stones, bend things out of anger just because some campers were in it's territory? Why not just plain out and out attack the people involved, as other animals who've displayed such strong territoriality? Compare the amount of Bear attacks each year, how many humans have been actually harmed by a sasquatch? Have you ever heard of any ape grabbing a frying pan and bending it, out of sheer rage? You're placing human emotional problems on a being that has eluded mankind for the last 10,000 years.

A lot of these stories started from the miners in Ape Canyon in 1924. They honestly believed they had been attacked by a group of Sasquatch. They hid in their cabin all through the night as stones and bodies pounced on the ceiling and walls all night. They assumed it was Sasquatch because they actually had seen one before, and shot it before it disappeared. They figured the group had come back for revenge. Only years later, a friend confessed on his deathbed that he and others had heard the miners story of shooting the Sasquatch, and decided the next night to play a practical joke on their buddies. They didn't count on the authorities or the press getting involved, and the whole thing got out of hand.

Several stories have followed the same formula, and we think this must be Sasquatch behaviour, because we like to cling to whatever testimony or supposed evidence is available because we really want to believe that Sasquatch exists. But the problem is that none of these stories is proven, and if you take several pranks and several lies and draw your image from that you're left with a different being entirely.

I was raised in the mountains of the Cascade Range in Washington State. Right in the middle of Sasquatch territory. I spent the first year of my life in the family cabin at the base of Chrystal Mountain. I spent every day of every summer hiking through the Cascade Range, fishing in lakes that don't exist on any map, hunting in places that very few humans have ever seen. I spent every weekend during the winter skiing on the mountains since I was three years old. My father works for the Department of Natural Resources and several times pulled night watch for weeks at a time on places where a Sasquatch had reportedly trashed a logging area and machinery etc. He and I have NEVER seen a Sasquatch attack anybody or throw any tantrum or threatening behaviour. In fact, my Dad also grew up in the mountains there and has never seen a Sasquatch at all. For that reason, he doesn't believe in them. I believe, however, that he chooses not to believe because if anybody were to ever see one, he woould've, and I think he is a little jealous and secretly does want to see one. I, however, am a firm believer in Sasquatch.

If you really want to know Sasquatch behaviour, pay attention to the Native American stories. I'm not talking about the ones that are meant to frighten children into behaving and not wandering away from camp. I mean the magical ones, the ones with real mystery, and awe. Because the Sasquatch are not apes as you or I know them, they are very magical beings, with a lot of fantastic powers. They are a lot more human than we are, in the truest sense of the word. They don't NEED to throw a tantrum or scare somebody off through violence, I'd say that behaviour is beneath them if they weren't so humble.

I attend Native American ceremonies on a regular basis, at least once a week. Through the Inipii ceremony and through meditation I've come to know Sasquatch to the extent that I'm positive they would never show any form of violence towards any human. Quite the opposite, I'm happy to say. Since I've started this course of action I've come to realize that the majority of statements and even the supposed "Greatest proof of the existence of Sasquatch" Are all just a bunch pranks, lies, and hoaxes. You might not believe me, but if you're going to take somebody's word for fact than I might as well throw in my voice for a people I've been honored to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, it's pretty much inkeeping with the bahavour of most greater apes (if we're to assume, for a moment, that the sasquatch is merely an underiscovered species of ape, and not some kind of strange 'missing link').

When confronting other creatures (or competing with each other) most apes don't attack...they go through a sort of ritual dance, involving making as much noise as they possible can, dragging sticks across the ground, throwing stones, drumming their feet against tree trunks...all in the name of whoever makes the most noise is percieved as the scariest guy on the block, and rises to dominance...or, on the flip side, enough noise will drive off invaders.

Apes attacking each other during these displays is almost unheard of...causing actual physical harm to each other is very rare as a matter of determining dominance. What you describe above sounds very much like one of these displays...it sounds pretty accurate too. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it actually happened.

Pretty inkeeping with the idea that sasquatch are just an undiscovered species of greater ape...and if they were to be veiwed in that light, then the scientific world might take them more seriously, and at least one well funded expitition to seriously investigate and discover them might actually happen rolleyes.gif

Have you ever heard of any ape grabbing a frying pan and bending it, out of sheer rage?

Yes tongue.gif

I've also heard of one that bashed empty airosol canisters together to create such a horrible noise, that it terrified his peers to the extent he quickly became the dominant male of that area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LOL. Yes they did steal my cheese! thumbsup.giflaugh.gif

Blasted furry dog-faced animals,now I hate 'em!! laugh.giflaugh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it was probably a p***ed up camper pulling someones plank tongue.gif Kiddin aside this story sounds typical of most camping stories told in such a vivid way they can be took as being amything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though I have an affection for the Great Apes, I have found several contradictions to your statement.

http://www.pgcps.pg.k12.md.us/~blade/ahipp...illa%20page.htm

If the attacker runs, the gorilla will chase and perhaps kill it. If the attacker stands its ground, the gorillas will usually settle down and go away.

Gorillas in the wild also remember things for a long time. For example, the gorillas that Dian Fossey studied remembered her even when they had not seen her for a very long time. They treated her as a returning friend. Likewise, they remember poachers, and attack or run from them.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~jel/gorillaV.html

Unlike the long Hollywood tradition of King Kong and Mighty Joe oung, Gorillas seems to be rather non-aggressive, though silverbacks will vigorously attack threats to their group, e.g. from a human or another gorilla.

The large canine teeth of the male are exclusively for competitive displays --and occasional combat -- with other males. I have read of male gorillas dying of infections probably resulting from other males' bites

http://mahale.web.infoseek.co.jp/PAN/9_1/9(1)-06.html

A sad story in today's Dar es Salaam newspapers: a correspondent in Kigoma sadly reports that "a chimpanzee ambushed and killed a resident of Mtwanga Street in Kigoma town, Adriano Msafiri aged 60". The Kigoma Regional Police Commander, Boniface Mgongolwa, confirmed that the chimpanzee had managed to escape from "Kitwe Game Reserve." The poor animal, apparently, appears to have gone all the way from this Kitwe Game Reserve to Zungu Beach in Kigoma, where it attacked the unfortunate deceased, Ndugu Adriano Msafiri who was a security guard at the beach. The chimpanzee is alleged by the Regional Police Commander to have gorged the eyes of the late Ndugu Msafiri.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/03...ine_extra2.html

Like most of his hundred or so fellow chimps who live protected existences within Tanzania's Gombe National Park, Frodo remains a fiercely efficient predator. The chimpanzees regularly hunt down other mammals—notably colobus monkeys—and kill them for fresh meat.

This behavior is normal for wild animals, but it brought tragedy to a human family in May 2002, when Frodo snatched and killed the child of a Tanzanian park worker.

This was not the first case of human babies being taken by chimps in the Gombe area," Dr. Kamenya elaborated. (Abductions resulting in child deaths also occurred in 1987, 1984, and in the 1950s.) "But it was the first within the park, and the first involving a habituated chimp of the research community

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-...annibal&spell=1

The book also documents the brutal, disturbing territorial war that proved that Chimpanzees are capable of violence against eachother. This is a war that would have never been recorded had the study ended when originally scheduled - showing why long term studies are needed for long lived animals like chimps and elephants.

Of course, I'd have to go through my national geographic collection and my own copy of "Through a Window" To delve into the killing within the social group of the Gorillas as well as cannibalism amongst the Chimpanzees, if you really want me to. Of course this isn't always the case, apes are individuals just like humans. But yet there is still not one report of a human actually being harmed by a Sasquatch.

As for credible scientific expeditions:

http://www.psitalk.com/byrne.html

Peter Byrne came to work on a tea plantation in Northern India in the late 1940’s, after a stint in the Royal Airforce in World War II.

He opened Nepal’s first tiger hunting concession (today he helps protect them) and soon found himself face to face with stories about the "abominable snowman" or yeti.

Funded by a Texas oilman, with the unlikely name of Tom Slick, he began a three year mission to hunt and track down the Yeti. They found footprints and a mummified hand in a monastery, but the creature remained shrouded in the blowing Himalayan snow.

Hearing of the discovery of big footprints in California, Slick asked Byrne to head up a "Pacific Northwest Bigfoot Expedition" in 1960, which for a short time included Rene Dahinden and Peter Byrne.

Renowned for his abilities to raise millions of dollars in the name of Bigfoot research, in the 1990’s Byrne undertook a full-scale monster search, complete with helicopters, infra-red sensors and 1-800-BIGFOOT phone number. Today, Byrne is semi-retired in the Bigfoot field and continues his tourist/adventure work around the world.

Peter Byrne's autobiography available at www.sasquatchodyssey.com/hpeter.html

Let me once again state that I firmly believe in Sasquatch. At one time I would have agreed with the story that this thread pertains to. I would have thought that it fit right into the profile that exists about Sasquatch. I would have clung to it because I really wanted Sasquatch to exist. But after some of the techniques I've tried, that ANYBODY can do, I know better. Simple meditation. You don't have to go to a sweatlodge. Can I prove it to anyone else? No, unless they try it themselves and get the same result. The difference is is that I don't have to prove they exist, they do anyways. I'd much rather know the truth about them, instead of listening to somebody else. On that note, don't take my word for it, try it yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, here we go...been dying to reply to this since I poked at the forums from Uni. Now that I'm home, I shall be able to stop my fingers from trembling blink.gif

If the attacker runs, the gorilla will chase and perhaps kill it. If the attacker stands its ground, the gorillas will usually settle down and go away.

This is a somewhat bizarre story that has persisted so long, you'd honestly expect it came from somewhere...however, I struggle to see how this could be considered a fact, unless it had happened often enough to not simply be considered an iscolated case.

Exactly which hapless researcher was unfortunate enough to prove this theory by being chased and killed? tongue.gif And more to the point, exactly how much provocation and misreading of the gorilla's mood must have taken place before it occured? (assuming it ever did)

When you think about it...it defies all logic. When a subordinate ape is attacked by a superior, the most submissive action they can possibly do is to run away. It doesn't take a great deal of observation time to see this happening in the wild; does the superior chase down and kill his subordinate? No, of course he doesn't.

If you have an interest in the greater apes, then I'm sure you've heard of Jane Goodall....she recounted an incident in her book "in the Shadow of Man", when she and her husband were observing a group of chips eating...apparantly, the chimps got the idea that they were after their meat, and gave chase.

What did Jane Goodall, the world leading expert on chimps and their behaviour do? She grabbed her husband's arm and ran away. And the chimps followed for a little while, before letting them go once they were satisfied their food was secure.

Apes don't chase people to kill them, they chase them to scare them away tongue.gif

Gorillas in the wild also remember things for a long time. For example, the gorillas that Dian Fossey studied remembered her even when they had not seen her for a very long time.

True, the chimps remembered Jane Goodall too. However, there's a huge difference between someone who the apes had grown to know, and a pair of campers. When first contact is made with a group of wild apes, after they get over their intial fear, researchers are usually (displayed at' in a manner not unlike what's described in the first post.

Apes will scream, throw stones, make a lot of noise...and on occassion have been seen to charge, only to veer aside at the last moment. Jane Goodall also recalls that she was once struck by a chimp, after it had spent several minutes trying to scare her off, and grew frustrated. The chimp disappeared a moment afterwards.

A sad story in today's Dar es Salaam newspapers: a correspondent in Kigoma sadly reports that "a chimpanzee ambushed and killed a resident of Mtwanga Street in Kigoma town, Adriano Msafiri aged 60". The Kigoma Regional Police Commander, Boniface Mgongolwa, confirmed that the chimpanzee had managed to escape from "Kitwe Game Reserve."

As the article says at the bottom, there is no evidence to say it was a chimpanzee that killed him...for a start, chimpanzee's do not simple "ambush" people. The few hostile encounters that are recorded are the result of the human and chimp running into each other, and the chimp striking out as it runs away, perhaps costing an eye to the human.

That area is home to baboons (which are far more agressive than chimps), poachers (also far more agressive than chimps), lepoards, buffalo, and any number of creatures that could have commited the act tongue.gif

I can't refute the fact that they kill small monkeys and suchlike...chimps are omnivorious, that's just a boilogical fact tongue.gif

I'm struggling to work out whether you're trying to prove in the above links that greater apes are peaceful, or agressive...you seen to go back and forth. However, not a single one of your links is relevent to the displaying ritual, which is what I was discussing.

Almost all of the greater apes establish dominance through displaying...they'll also display at intruders to try and scare them away (chasing them is usually a last resort), and the point I was making was that what was described in the first post of this thread is exactly like one of those displays tongue.gif

Talking about your meditation on the subject is all very well...however, meditation does not make scientific break throughs, and it does not give the existance of bigfoot credibility in the scientific realm.

Stories like the one that started this thread, that show similarities to the behavour of actual known species of ape, certainly do...dismissing them does a great deal more to harm the legend of bigfoot, than even stories of bigfoot's 'mystical powers' tongue.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I fully believe in Sasquatch but the 'squatches have received an undeserved bad reputation for throwing stones, tantrums, chasing people, vandalism, etc.

If it isn't just a bad rep, I know one that shaves blink.gif

Well, anyway. I beleive in the Wendigo and I've read a few books that had stories about them. most scared the crap out of me. If my memory liked me right now, I'd probably tell you a few of them. Give me a while and I might remember enough to peice together a story. They're a good read if you find the right ones.

But I don't think this was a Wendigo. I think it was probably some sort of local animal. The animals around here can make really weird-and scary-screeching noises when disturbed. Do you know what kind of animals are in that area?

Sorry if you've already answered that question, I didn't read all of the posts. Only half whistling2.gif I have a bad habit of that disgust.gif

Cya!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know...

FANDANGO!

RARRRRR!

laugh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Seraphina,

I'm glad you mentioned Jane Goodall, if you go to the NPR (national public radio) webstite you may find an archive in Science Friday with an interview with Mrs. Goodall. She states she believes in Sasquatch, and bases her assertions on her conversations with NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES. There is a striking similarity in their descriptions of behaviour and legends (and yes, you will find mysticism there).

I am not out to prove that apes are neither peaceful or violent, and yes of course I've heard of Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall, most of those links and posts were associated through the study of both of those people. The quote about the Gorilla attacking an attacker if it runs was not my own words, it was a quote from the article that the link pointed to. The point is I found that stuff in 15 minutes. Wether or not there is any proof the man was killed by a chimp doesn't really matter, because for the life of me I can't find anywhere where it is stated a Sasquatch actually harmed a human. I also pointed out the work of Peter Byrne, who devoted the majority of his life to serious expeditions for Sasquatch, well funded with the latest technology, and nothing conclusive was found. Which leads to your purpose.

Why do you want it proven that Sasquatch exists? Would you accept that they'd have to kill such a majestic being in order to say "I was right!!!"? Would you want people to dissect it? Look at the problems that have plagued the apes. All those articles talk about the problems of poachers. Would you wish the same thing on Sasquatch?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again. I found one of my books with a Wendigo story. So, if anyone's interested here ya go. I know this may be slightly off the subject, but oh well....

A wealthy man wanted to go hunting in a part of Northern Canada where few people had ever hunted. He traveled to a trading post and tried to find a guide to take him. But no one would do it. It was to dangerous, they said.

Finally, he found an Indian who needed money badly, and he agreed to take him. The Indian's name was DeFago.

They made camp in the snow near a large frozen lake. For three days they hunted, but they had nothing to show for it. The third night a windstorm came up. They lay in their tent listening to the wind howling and the trees whipping back and forth.

To see the storm better, the hunter opened the tent flap. What he saw startled him. There wasn't a breath of air, stirring, and the trees were standing perfectly still. Yet he could hear the wind howling. And the more he listened, the more it sounded as if it were calling DeFago's name.

"Da-faaaaaaaaay-go!" it called. "Da-faaaaaaaaay-go!"

"Ï must be losing my mind," the hunter thought.

But DeFago had gotten out of his sleeping bag. He was huddled in the corner of the tent, his head buried in his arms.

"What's this all about?" the hunter asked.

"It's nothing," DeFago said.

But the wind continued to call him. And DeFago became more tense and more restless.

"Da-faaaaaaaaay-go!" it called. "Da-faaaaaaaaay-go!

Suddenly, he jumped to his feet, and began to run from the tent. But the hunter grabbed him and wrestled him to the ground.

"Ÿou can't leave me out here!" the hunter shouted.

Then the wind called again, and DeFago broke loose and ran into the darkness. The hunter could hear him screaming as he went. Again and again he cried, "Öh, my fiery feet, my burning feet of fire..." Then his voice faded away, and the wind died down.

At daybreak, the hunter followed DeFago's tracks in the snow. They went through the woods, down toward the lake, then out onto the ice.

But soon he noticed something strange. The steps DeFago had taken got longer and longer. They were so long no human being could have taken them. It was as if something had helped him hurry away.

The hunter followed the tracks out into the middle of the lake, but there they dissappeared. At first, he thought that DeFago had fallen through the ice, but there wasn't any hole. Then he thought that something had pulled him off the ice and into the sky. But that made no sense.

As he stood wondering what happened, the wind picked up again. Soon it was howling as it had the night before. Then he heard DeFago's voice. It was coming from up above, and again he heard DeFago screaming, "...My fiery feet, my burning feet..." But there was nothing to be seen.

Now the hunter wanted to leave that place as fast as he could. He went back to camp and packed. Then he left some food for DeFago, and he started out.Weeks later he reached civilization.

The following year he went back to hunt in that area again. He went to the same trading post to look for a guide. The people there could not explain what happened to DeFago that night. But they had not seen him since then.

"Maybe it was the Wendigo, one of them said", and he laughed. "Ït's supposed to come with the wind. It drags you along at great speed until your feet are burned away, and more of you than that. Then it carries you into the sky, and it drops you. It's just a crazy story, but that's what some of the Indian's say."

A few days later the hunter was at the trading post again. And Indian came in and sat by the fire. He had a blanket wrapped around him, and he wore his hat so that you couldn't see his face. The hunter thought there was something familiar about him.

He walked over and asked, "Äre you DeFago?"

The Indian didn't answer.

"Do you know anything about him?"

No answer.

He began to wonder if something was wrong, if the man needed help. But he couldn't see his face.

"Are you alright?" he asked.

No answer.

To get a look at him, he lifted the Indian's hat. Then he screamed. There was nothing under the hat but a pile of ashes.

-Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark

Collected from Folklore and retold by Alvin Schwartz.

I didn't change anything. By "Indians" I'm guessing they mean "Native Americans" or something... well, anyway hope you liked it. that's a lot to write. Oh, and if you haven't guessed, I did not write that. An Alvin Schwartz did.

Cya!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wether saswuach, chupe, or camper i dont have an opinion, but i do have some info on windigoes:

they are about 15 feet tall with bluish skin and craggy yellow teeth

dey hiss like a panther

when they leave footprints in the snow, the footprints fill with blood!

they eat people's souls and either leave the body as ashes or the people turn into a windigo.

the legend was of the native americans, chippewa i tink.

i have also heard the story you told about the burning the feet off and attack from the air, or something similar, but atributed to a witch of cloudes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow I've never heard of the wendigo. Sounds really cool...not too sure I'd want to pass it up, but cool nevertheless!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.