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cladking

How the pyramids were built.

321 posts in this topic

Wow this thread is long! I didn't read most of it, so if I'm repeating something that's already been said, please excuse me.

The more recent posts seem to be concentrating more on the same concepts: ramps, pulleys, etc... However my guess is a bit different then that. I believe what the ancient Egyptians used is more on the lines of metaphysical.

I cannot even try to explain How they did it, simply because I don't know. But I will say why I came up with this conclusion. If you have an open mind and understand that some things cannot be proven/explained by today's science, then perhaps you will see where I'm coming from.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=73936

This is a link to an older thread here. I just realized that the links on it are dead, but you can still find the videos by searching for "Magical Egypt" in Google Videos. There are 8 videos in total each about 50 mins. I know it's quite long.... The videos go into some detail to show us that the Egyptians had great knowledge of the afterlife, spiritual, cosmos, etc... I really suggest you watch at least one or two of these, they are extremely interesting and informative.

http://www.labyrinthina.com/coral.htm

Here's another piece of information, and this one is far more recent and a little closer to home for a lot of people here. Coral Castle is a small rock compound built by one man. How he carried the huge stones and set them in place is not known. But it is my belief that when we find that out, we will be far closer to the truth of the pyramids then ever. If one man can move all those stones as he did, it would suggest that a lot less manpower was required to build the pyramids as one might think.

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These guys have never built anything using primitive technology. I'd wager not

one has ever pulled a heavy weight up a hill even under ideal conditions. The rate

at which stone has to be delivered is staggering and this is before such considera-

tions such as cutting, prepping, and setting the stone are considered.

With all dues respect, your post is silly. What annoysme is that one the one hand, there is an old chestnut that says "We can't build a pyramid today with our technology". Then you aregue that we would have to use primitive technology. Make up your mind.

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now after tiny reaserch(google) i say , there were wheels in egypt, unlike some members saying otherwise, they did have chariots, and chariots have wheels.

post-45398-1192110976_thumb.jpg

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now after tiny reaserch(google) i say , there were wheels in egypt, unlike some members saying otherwise, they did have chariots, and chariots have wheels.

Aztek,

Egypt was in existence for a long time.

I believe that if you look into it, you'll find that the wheel diodn't come to Egypt until almost a thousand years after the pyramids were finished.

Harte

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now after tiny reaserch(google) i say , there were wheels in egypt, unlike some members saying otherwise, they did have chariots, and chariots have wheels.

Sorry Aztec, but that image is from a time when Pyramids were old history. Even for Egyptians.

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does anyone know more or less acurate date when humanity invented the wheel?

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does anyone know more or less acurate date when humanity invented the wheel?

Not exactly, but seems somewhere in the Neolithic. But that does not mean that every culture had a use for it. In Japan it took until the modern times before the wheel could be used for transportation, despite being a well advanced civilization.

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Now what makes you think that they used wheels to build the pyramis?

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Aztek,

Egypt was in existence for a long time.

I believe that if you look into it, you'll find that the wheel diodn't come to Egypt until almost a thousand years after the pyramids were finished.

Harte

That's interesting (And I'm not being sarcastic - it actually is) - do you know the respective dates? Could you post them? I would love to examine that a bit closer...

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Now what makes you think that they used wheels to build the pyramids?

they used giant logs to float roll and lift the blocks into place

they were 90 ft tall

out of this world\

Giant Images Found

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they used giant logs to float roll and lift the blocks into place

That article talks about Peru, not Egypt. I still think that people underestimate how much Egyptians actually knew.

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does anyone know more or less acurate date when humanity invented the wheel?

Humanity didn't invent the wheel, an individual did. Most people don't understand the wheel even today.

Figure around 2200 BC.

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Ramps were used at other pyramids. The remains of these ramps have been found. That's why this method has been proposed for the Great Pyramid.

This "analysis" is disingenuous. Two-thirds of the stones in the Great Pyramid are in the bottom one-third of the structure. A "ramp" to this level would be extraordinarily easy to construct and could take up the entire face of the pyramid. All four faces, in fact.

Also, the stones near the top are half the size of the stones near the bottom. A crew that moves the (larger) bottom stones can move two or three of the upper (smaller) stones.

Civil Engineers (people whose jobs involve construction and estimates) have officially estimated a crew of under 10,000 people could build the Great Pyramid in less than six years. This does not include prepping the site and installing and shaping the outer casing stones (which are missing today anyway.)

Harte

why would the ramps have to be faceing one side of the pyramid or all four. why not have one ramp going from one level to the next and spiraling around the pyramid. then the ramps would have to be more than 20 to 30 foot each imstead of half a mile long leading to the pyramid?

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why would the ramps have to be faceing one side of the pyramid or all four. why not have one ramp going from one level to the next and spiraling around the pyramid. then the ramps would have to be more than 20 to 30 foot each imstead of half a mile long leading to the pyramid?

The shape of the ramp is immaterial to its lenght: The total lenght of the ramp has to be the same whether it's straight, curved, or goes straight through the center.

Internal ramps would still have to be filled and this would prove the most difficult part of the entire job. Internal ramps would of necessity also be much narrower which greatly reduces the rate at which stones can be delivered. It is the delivery rate which just kills any sort of ramp.

Remember it's the top half of these things that are tough. A ramp going half way up would be a possibility but doesn't account for how they put the rest up.

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Remember it's the top half of these things that are tough. A ramp going half way up would be a possibility but doesn't account for how they put the rest up.

Have you come across this explanation before? :

Clicky

I wouldn't rely on Answers.com but it does seem logical and would provide a direction for further research.

http://www.labyrinthina.com/coral.htm

Here's another piece of information,...

*snip*

... it would suggest that a lot less manpower was required to build the pyramids as one might think.

Here is an explanation of how it could have been done:

Clicky

I don't know how highly I rate the inference of a motorised pulley but the first picture and explanation seem to hold true.

As far as I'm aware this has no bearing on how the pyramids were built as the Egyptians at that time didn't use blocks and tackle.

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Humanity didn't invent the wheel, an individual did. Most people don't understand the wheel even today.

Figure around 2200 BC.

hopewell

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Have you come across this explanation before? :

Clicky

I wouldn't rely on Answers.com but it does seem logical and would provide a direction for further research.

Here is an explanation of how it could have been done:

Clicky

I don't know how highly I rate the inference of a motorised pulley but the first picture and explanation seem to hold true.

As far as I'm aware this has no bearing on how the pyramids were built as the Egyptians at that time didn't use blocks and tackle.

I've seen all these methods or thought of them myself except for building

the ramps of salt or natron. In a very real sense it's entirely possible that

the pyramid was lifted with natron.

It is very apparent in the Pyramid Texts that natron was used to encourage

Osiris to stand. If Osiris was in actuality a quiet cold water geyser a small

amount of natron thrown into it would produce a great deal of water at a ve-

ry great altitude.

Physical ramps made of natron would cut the effort to build and remove them

nearly in half but it would still require far more effort than the pyramid itself.

More importantly perhaps it would prove the existence of water at altitude

and be strong indication that my crackpot idea is correct. Hence meaning they

they never needed the ramps anyway.

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Rather than start a new thread as I had planned I'll just bring this

one up to date. The last will include stuff that I haven't suggested

elsewhere yet. Much of the earlier stuff here is null and void but

will leave it to any interested readers to determine what.

I left off ealier with geysers and fumerols. I have it on good authority

that these are improbable because of the lack of active vulcanism now

and in the distant past. After this I did a lot of reading of the Pyramid

Texts and now have come back to look at the geology more and details

of the pyramid itself.

There were vulcanos in the Northern Sudan adjacent to the Nile. These

have erupted at some indeterminant point in the last several thousand

years. There is a massive aquifer under Egypt and far to the west in Lib-

ya. The Egytian aquifer is said to contain the equivalent water of 600 yrs

of Nile flow. This aquifer could have been carbonated by this activity re-

sulting in geysers at Giza. These geysers are born when highly carbonated

water near the surface begins to "fizz up" which lightens the pressure on

deeper water which spontaneously fizzes as well. Water can be ejected to

great heights and be nearly continuous. Most such geysers are man-made

today and this probably was true then as well. People simply dug down

where they saw water coming up and created the geyser.

They were familiar with this gas and referred to it as ’I [];.t-wt.t.

It would seem plausible that they would be very familiar with the

gas given off in brewing and in bread making. That they might call

this "yeast gas" or an equivalent seems likely. Carbon dioxide is

not a highly reactive (or useful) gas but they could easily put two

and two together and know that any cold water geysers were caused

by "yeast gas". They did at one point in the Pyramid Texts describe

water that was like wine.

Cold water geysers are being suggested as a source of water pressure

to lift water to a level where it could be used in counterweights to

lift stones into the Great Pyramid. Volcanos adjacent to the Nile in

northern Sudan would be the source of the CO2. It is known that there

is a large flow in the natural aquafers from this area. These vulcanos

are near an expanding plate boundary.

Utterance 690 seems to describe the eruption of a cold water geyser.

2109. The sky trembles, the earth quakes before the god, before N.

2110a. N. [is not enveloped] by the earth;

2110b. ’I [];.t-wt.t, thou art not enveloped by the earth.

2110c. Thy fame is by day; thy fear is by night, as a god, lord of fear.

2110d. Thou commandest the gods like the mighty one, chief of the mighty.

2111. [O] Osiris, the overflow comes, the inundation hastens, Geb groans.

2112a. I have pitied thee with pity; I have smitten him who acted with evil (intent) against thee;

2112b. that thou mayest live, that thou mayest raise thyself up because of thy strength.

2113. O N., [the inundation comes 1, [the overflow hastens], Geb [groans].

2114a. Exult in the divine efflux which is in thee; let thy heart live;

214b. thy divine limbs are in good condition; loosen thy bindings.

2115a. Horus comes to thee, N.; he does for thee that which he did for his father Osiris,

"’I[];.t-wt.t" might be the "yeast gas" coming out of solution.

"’I[];.t-wt.t", thy fame is by day thy fear is by night. By day this would be a major topic of interest by most educated people. At night the wind often slows when solar heating stops. This would allow possibly deadly concentrations of "yeast gas" to accumulate especially in lower lying areas.

It appears as well in utt 436:

788b. the efflux goes forth from the god, the secretion which comes out of Osiris,

788c. so that thy hands may be washed, so that thine ears may be open.

789a. This power is spiritualized by means of its soul.

789b. Wash thyself for thy ka washes itself. Let thy ka be seated,

789c. that it may eat bread with thee, without ceasing eternally.

790a. Thy going is as a successor of Osiris;

790b. thy face is before thee; thine homage is before thee.

791a. It is agreeable to thy nose on account of the smell of ’I[];.t-wt.t;

791b. for thy feet when they hit thy feast (carry thee to thy feast);

791c. for thy teeth, for thy finger-nails when thy bread is broken.

Again this is mentioned with the efflux from Osiris.

From utt 221;

197e. make thou that his ‘bȝ-sceptre be at the head of the living; make thou that his śḫm-sceptre be at the head of the spirits;

197f. make thou that his blade be firm against his enemies.

198a. O ’Inw-Crown, thou has come forth from him as he came forth from thee.

198b. The great ’I[];.t has given birth to thee, the ’I[];.t-wt.t has adorned thee;

198c. the ’I[];.t-wt.t has given birth to thee, the great ’I[];.t has adorned thee,

198d. for as for thee, thou art like Horus, who fought in protection of his eye.

"gas" has given birth to thee, the great "yeast gas" has adorned thee. The great "yeast gas" has given birth to the, the great "gas" has adorned thee.

from 664;

1916-1 (N. 719 + 29). O N., great is sleep; it is great to sleep.

1916-2 (N. 709 + 4). This great one sleeps, he sleeps; wake up, raise thyself up.

1916-3 (Nt. 738). Great is thine odour, pleasant to the nose, the odour of ’I[];.t-wt.t.

From 576;

1502b. Osiris awakes in peace; he who is in Ndi.t awakes in peace.

1503a. His head is lifted up by Rē‘; his odour is [as] that of the ’I[];.t-wt.t-serpent.

1503b. The head of N. also is lifted up by Rē‘; the odour of N. is as that of ’I[];.t-wt.t-serpent.

This may be a type of snake that smells something like rising bread or possibly it's just a recognition of its dangerous properties.

Utt 665b

1922 (Nt. 743). Thou enterest when thy father Geb is protecting thee.

1922 + 1 (Nt. 744). If (thy) father does not know thee, he is not alive;

1922 + 2 (Nt. 744). if (thy) father calls thee "’I[];.t," retreat, such is not thy name.

"’I[];.t," would be gas.

Carbon dioxide in water forms carbonic acid which readily dissolves limestone. This

material will rapidly precipitate as the CO2 leaves the water and leave large quan-

tities of stone. This stone could form in distinct layers each year and would be down-

hill from the source. The wadi south of the Great Pyramid could well have been the

direction of the natural flow and might have been deposited over a quite lenghty per-

iod. Since it might have started even in late prehistory there would be no written re-

cord. It is quite possible that these layers were simply mined for construction. This

would mean a lot less and much easier cutting.

It should also be noted that there is a written record that the Eye of Horus was seven

cubits with a pupil of three cubits. The grotto under the pyramid is 7 cubits and has

a well that is 3 cubits. There is also an utterance which states that Horus was appoint-

ed to serve in the house of his father Osiris.

I believe Khufu inadvertantly killed the geyser Osiris. If the grand gallery was actually

a series of 14 shaddufs to lift water to useable levels then Khufu literally cut Osiris in-

to 14 pieces as the tale says and killed him. The story says that the actual murder was

carried out by inducing Osiris to lie down in a box which was filled with molten lead. No

doubt this was to use the water more efficiently but the technology failed. Whan Khufu

died he became Set who was a powerful but oft despised God who ruled the underworld;

the source of the water which flowed through Geb. It emerged on the Green Hills (Herb

Hills) and went through the Winding Waterways (canals) to the Marsh of Reeds. Rituals

carried out at the pyramid and elsewhere resulted in the viscera of the deerly departed

being hastened on their way to the marsh of reeds. This area drained with the aquifer

from Libya into the Ur Nile which was a major branch just north of Giza. The Marsh of

Reeds could have been drained for farmland but it was both a holy site and important

source for the papyrus which was used for numerous consumer products. It should be

remembered that when Egyptian died they went to the "west", to where they could farm

without fear of bad crops or other mortal problems. On Earth they were immortal men

in death they became mortal Gods who lived at the will of the other gods and nature.

When the geyser just north of the entrance was inadvertantly killed by work on the pyr-

amid, it became necessary to rework the plan. This necessitated the tunneling though

the structure down to the grotto which was the original site of the water here.

As mentioned a few posts back there is a wide variation in the thickness of the layers in

the pyramid. This variation is very reminiscent of the sunspot cycle which is an eleven

year cycle with an overlain 88 year cycle. You could just move the 35th course three

spots and it would be near perfect. The 35th course is the level of the entrance so could

well have been placed out of sequence intentionally. There is a correlation between rain-

fall in the Nile headwaters and the sunspot cycle.

Edited by cladking

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Snip

Remember it's the top half of these things that are tough. A ramp going half way up would be a possibility but doesn't account for how they put the rest up.

Whatever.

III. The Discovery of the Ramp of the Pyramid of Khufu.

Excavation on the area South of the Great Pyramid revealed evidence of the remains of the ramp of the Great Pyramid.

III. 1 Previous discussion on the ramp.

Scholars propose two theories: a straight ramp or a spiral ramp. Both present their own problems. The first theory proposes a single large ramp sloping up against one face of the pyramid. This proposal has the advantage that all four comers and the three sides of the pyramid remain clear during the construction allowing builders to monitor and check the rise of the sides and the diagonals. Careful surveying during construction was essential; otherwise, a twist might occur and the diagonal lines would not meet in a point at the top. There are problems with this proposal. One is that to obtain a functionally low enough slope - one that rises one meter every six meters, the ramp would have to be extremely long extending over and beyond the quarry.

The other theory posits a ramp spiraling around the pyramid in some way. The most popular form of this idea has a ramp starting at each comer thereby creating four ramps spiraling upwards and resting on the unfinished outer casing blocks for support.

These blocks would be smoothed as the ramps were dismantled after the apex of the pyramid had been reached. This theory leaves most of the pyramid's face clear, for measuring purposes, during construction and the necessary double-checking of lines and comers.

The first problem with this theory is that the unfinished faces of the pyramid could not support the ramps which these theorists believe were made of mud-brick or debris.

Also a spiraling ramp increases the distance over which the blocks had to be hauled and creates unnecessary strain for the team pulling each multi-ton block. It also increases the difficulty of pulling the blocks with extended ropes around the sharp comers of the pyramid's diagonals. 18 Other theories are proposed by Lehner and Stadelmann. I believe that the ramp rises from the quarry about thirty meters above the pyramid's base at its Southwest comer, and the discovery of the ramp South of the Great Pyramid proved that the last theory is the correct one.

III. 2. The Discovery of the Ramp.

During the work of relocating the Sound and Light Show cables at Giza, we were able to excavate their route beginning at the Southwest of the Great Pyramid.

Also at this time we started the re-excavation of the cemetery GIS and the restoration of the tombs there.

As was discussed above the only possible side for the erection of the ramp during the reign of Khufu was the South side. The ramp was constructed of limestone chips, gypsum, and a calcareous clay called Tafla. Due to the hardiness of the construction materials what remains of the ramp, after the Egyptians removed it to build the tombs of GIS, should still exist on the South side.

We started to remove sand for the erection of the cables North of the paved road and South of the pyramid. During the work we found a big part of the ramp used to transport the stones from the quarry to the pyramid base. This part of the ramp consisted of two walls built of stone rubble and mixed with Tafla. The area in between was filled with sand and gypsum forming the bulk of the ramp.

1. The West Wall:

The length of this wall is 1.40 centimeters, built of a stone rubble and Tafla.

The length is 60 centimeters. Mud was used to consolidate the stones.

2. The Eastern Wall

It is located to the East of the West wall about 1.50 centimeters. The width is 1.45 centimeters and it is also built of stone rubble.

On the South side of the paved road, South of Khufu's pyramid, we excavated down about 2.50 meters and found another part of the ramp. This part is in line with the Eastern and Western wall and is of similar construction. This discovery proves that the ramp led from the quarry to the Southwest comer of the pyramid and was made of stone rubble and Tafla.(see plans 2,3) The ramp rises to about 30 meters above the pyramid's base at its Southwest comer. The ramp would have leaned against the pyramid's faces as they rose. Somewhat like accretion layers wrapped around the pyramid with a roadway on top. The weight of this ramp is borne by the ground around the pyramid. Traffic could move along the top of this structure as both pyramid and ramp rose in tandem. The top of the pyramid could be reached with only one and one quarter turns. The slope would rise with each turn from a reasonable 65 degrees, for the first section, to as much as 18 degrees for the last climb to the apex.

My Emphases

Source: Pyramid Construction

So, there has been evidence of a ramp found not only at several other pyramids, but also at the Great Pyramid.

Maybe they used the ramp for something else other than construction? :rolleyes:

Harte

Edited by Harte

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" The slope would rise with each turn from a reasonable 65 degrees, for the first section, to as much as 18 degrees for the last climb to the apex."

It might be a good idea to check the math here. There is also

going to be a problem with putting a ramp far larger than the pyramid into

a hole that the pyramid came from.

If internal ramps ever were shown to be the way these were built a more

interesting question would arise; how did they fill the area where the ramp

had been. Not only would manipulating the stones vertically in a tiny work

area be incredibly difficult but the structure would be far weaker because

there is no overlap of the stones. It is the overlap which gives masonry its

strenght.

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There is a very young mountain chain SSW of Giza which rose in the Nile headwares and caused a lake to form. This lake (Lake Kivu) is highly carbonated and is one of three such lakes in the world, all in Africa.

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF...=1&.intl=us

This may be the smoking gun when you consider that the underground basins are known to exist not far to the north of this area. All that is required is one or two addition basins extending to this area. The inlet or the integrity of the uppermost basin might have been destroyed as the mountains continued to push higher.

Topo map of Africa:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpegMod/PIA04965_modest.jpg

Obviously this is far from conclusive but the point remains that there is "known" to have been CO2 in t5he Nile headwaters as recently as 15,000 years ago. It is also known that this CO2 is still being vented just a very little to the south.

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