PSI -vs- SCI

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

If someone watches a cartoon or reads a comic book, and on that basis sincerely believes that they have superpowers - do you really think you can "save" this person?

No, but perhaps they will think again before posting such silliness.

[Derac Smi]

The thread's back! Thanks SaruMan!

"If someone watches a cartoon or reads a comic book, and on that basis sincerely believes that they have superpowers,,,"~ mr byte

believing, reasoning, ego, alter ego, id, and what-have-you's, they're all part of the human mind by design are they not?

I admit that the brain and it's functions is finite and confined within the physical, but the mind is just endless! I pride my

self for being human just for this reason alone (of course there's a lot more reason though ; p).

More power byte!

[drakonwick]

Well Eight bits you have to realize that only some of the people coming here claiming super powers are pranksters. I would say that a good portion of those that come here claiming these super powers really do believe, for one reason or another, that these things are real and that they have certain special abilities. Mind you whether they are lying to themselves about these abilities and whether these lies soon become their reality is up for debate.

You say we should write “Sorry, I do believe you claim. If you provide evidence, then I shall reconsider my opinion”. In actuality this is exactly what we are saying. Sometimes it takes on a harsh tone. Sometimes it takes on a joking or sarcastic tone. Sometimes it can be straight to the point. Regradless of the form our response includes just what you have suggested. Also there a few of us, including me, that like to ramble. We like to expound on the ideas of “Sorry, I do not believe” and “Here is how to make me reconsider”.

Short answers like your example are not going to work with some of these claimants. They will most likely consider us just another person being short with them or not bothering to do anything but say “No”. We take the time to explain the why of our answers instead of just throwing the short answer out there. The claimant comes here and presents their claim. We present our stance and explain why it is what it is. Then the claimant should come back and discuss why they have their stance not just the hit and run here is my super power postings. Let the discussion take form and roll on from there.

Also, we skeptics get complained about enough when we take the time to explain our stance and how it could be changed. Exactly how is that going to improve if all we say is a two sentence response? I can see the complaints now “Is that all you skeptics ever say”, “Don’t you have anything useful to say” or the like. Those things are said now when we explain things. It will only get worse should we use so short a response.

Some of us here also feel that maybe it is in the best interest of humanity as a whole that we constantly explain the whys and hows. You ask who put us in charge of educating these kids? No one really but if they are not finding such things at home, in school or anywhere else why should we allow it to continue here? Why should we not show them the lack of proof, the irrational though, the lie or any other part of it? Should we not advise them on how to make a decision, how to think rationally, think through it logically, look at all the facts or look to science for the answers? We explain the whys and hows in the hope that they get it and use it, not just here, but in all aspects of their life.

Then we have to think of this. What has happened to the forums that have not allowed skeptics or have limited the response options of skeptics? Go take a look around the net and you will soon see. The place becomes overrun with nonsense and is only kept going through believers talking to other believers about their newly discovered, I just made it up right this second super power or the place dies because no solid discussion is to be found. I don’t think anyone here wants anything to happen with the UM forums. This place keeps going strong because of the mix of the curious, the questioning, the skeptic, the believer etc. It’s the discussions that we all have that makes this place what it is.

If you come here with a claim that you can a special super power you are going to be questioned. If you come here claiming to be a believer of a special super power you are going to be questioned. Let the believers get questioned and let us discuss. Let the skeptics get questioned and let us discuss. We all need to present our knowledge, beliefs and opinions here but I do not think anyone should be limited or limit themselves to two sentences.

Like I said, some of us like to ramble…..

Kevin A.

No, Kevin, you write good stuff. I think everybody here agrees about that.

I think you underestimate the prankster-to-delusional ratio in the "problem posts." I especially think you underestimate the discrimination of the regulars here who follow these topics, but who are not hardcore sceptics. They can tell when something is "off," just as you can.

What's the worst that can happen? Nobody can complain if you ignore a post, lol. And if you toss off a polite dismissal of something that others think is interesting? Well, there is no penalty for revisiting the issue when someone suggests that you have been hasty.

If a post raises some interesting issues, then of course you should discuss it. But let's face it, a lot of these posts don't raise any issues - it is obvious what is going on.

If someone watches a cartoon or reads a comic book, and on that basis sincerely believes that they have superpowers - do you really think you can "save" this person? Is that even your job?

Seriously you two! This is an open forum. People can express whatever they feel about any topic on this forum,

as long as it falls within the rules and, guidelines of this forum.

Making a short statement or a long drawn out one on trying to discourage some of these people that come on here

making wild claims is not going to make a difference either way. Most of them are adamant about their beliefs!

And, when questioned politely or sternly, the results are usually the same, with them ending up rambling on about

how they have nothing to prove. Etc...

Anyway back on topic! So, Jj! Is TKmaster going to accept this challenge or bow out? It should be interesting either way.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Tom R

[Jjbreen]

Anyway back on topic! So, Jj! Is TKmaster going to accept this challenge or bow out? It should be interesting either way.

I have no idea at this point??

TelekinesisMaster --- R U going to take the challenge?

[TelekenisisMaster]

I have no idea at this point??

TelekinesisMaster --- R U going to take the challenge?

yes but...

you say that i should need a plastic table...but i don't have one...

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

yes but...

you say that i should need a plastic table...but i don't have one...

Find one. It is going to take a little effort.

[TelekenisisMaster]

Find one. It is going to take a little effort.

I don't want to buy one xD

and i dont have the money for one...

Edited October 17, 2007 by TelekenisisMaster

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

I don't want to buy one xD

and i dont have the money for one...

Dude if you can really do TK. Take it on the road and make the big bucks. OR

Go to a science teacher in your area and let them do the experiment. Don't try to find a way out of it.

[SS79]

yes but...

you say that i should need a plastic table...but i don't have one...

Maybe a friend would be kind enough to let you use one . if you promise that they will get it back after you become famous of course <--- j/k

good luck

SS79 ***

[GetBornAgain]

I believe whether scientific or not EVERYTHING exists and can happen.There is no possibility no matter how "out there" it sounds that doesn't exist, ...

I agree with this simply for the fact that we exist. It's like the monkeys and the type writters. It's inconcievable that they would ever be able to write a shakespear play or whatever, but when you add infninty in to the equation what's stopping them?

Off topic i know however I found BNW's post interesting.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

I agree with this simply for the fact that we exist. It's like the monkeys and the type writters. It's inconcievable that they would ever be able to write a shakespear play or whatever, but when you add infninty in to the equation what's stopping them?

Off topic i know however I found BNW's post interesting.

Reality.

[Kevin A.]

yes but...

you say that i should need a plastic table...but i don't have one...

One could make a glass table or clear plastic table. It really would not be that hard. Like the challenge states you can support it with some taller wine/champagne glasses or something? (Jj perhaps there should be a stipulation on how far from the floor/support surface the top of the "table" should be?)

For the table top a clear glass casserole dish might work? Or one could run down to the local hardware store and get some glass or clear acrylic? 1/4" plate glass 12x12 would not be too expensive. They will cut it to size and grind the edges for you so you will not get cut. Try looking in the yellow pages. I know my town has a few hardwares stores, several window places and at least one company specializing in plate glass. I recently purchased some plate glass and was surprised at how inexpensive it was all in all.

Take your time sourcing the parts. There really is no rush. Make sure you get it right the first time though. No need having to make the video again. The parts and pieces are not terribly expensive. I wouldn't think finding the money for the parts a little at a time too harsh even on the tightest budgets.

Kevin A.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Kevin A.

[GetBornAgain]

Reality.

I don't know who it was first pointed out that, given enough time, a monkey bashing away at random on a typewriter could produce all the works of Shakespeare.

Richard Dawkins The Blind Watchmaker

Huxley, on the other hand, declared that given enough time all the possible combinations of matter, including those necessary to produce a man, will eventually occur by chance molecular movement. To prove his point Huxley asked Wilberforce to allow him the service of six monkeys that would live forever, six typewriters that would never wear out and an unlimited supply of paper and ink. He then argued that given an infinite amount of time these monkeys would eventually type all of the books in the British Library including the Bible and the works of Shakespeare!

http://godisnowhere.org/Data/ChickenorEgg.htm

Given enough time our reality was produced, why not some other sort of reality?

[Derac Smi]

Off topic, will try to confine topic within thread next time : ) Along our natural, evolution history we were given enough time to realize our present reality only. We are now able to discuss and debunk one another here at UM, a great feat of the conscious thinking mind I believe. On the other side, monkeys are still, well monkeys! To me the theory of evolution is trying to eat its cake and keep it too! Was there ever a scientific find that claim otherwise against evolution in its entirety? If so, would someone please start a thread on this rather interesting topic? More power!

[eight bits]

Given enough time our reality was produced, why not some other sort of reality?

Well, for one thing, it is an abuse of language.

There may be some excuse for the useage "multiple universes," to suggest the gist of a physical hypothesis, but the useage can only be suggestive. It is also lazy, the actual gist being closer to "compartmentalized universe." Compartmentalized may be a kluge-y word, but it is a word, and the phrase qualifies as a grounded metaphor.

Reality, truth, universe, ..., Miss World 2008, ... - each is like Highlander, In the end, there can be only one.

The alternative is that words lose what little purchase on meaning they have.

[Saru]

Psychic Challenge Notice

Due to the nature of the 'Psychic Challenge' participants must now be 18 years of age or older in order to take part. The original posts outlining the challenge will be ammended to include this information.

Thank you.

[Jjbreen]

Psychic Challenge Notice

Due to the nature of the 'Psychic Challenge' participants must now be 18 years of age or older in order to take part. The original posts outlining the challenge will be ammended to include this information.

Thank you.

I will amend the challenge and repost it shortly.... Thanks Saruman....

[GetBornAgain]

Well, for one thing, it is an abuse of language.

There may be some excuse for the useage "multiple universes," to suggest the gist of a physical hypothesis, but the useage can only be suggestive. It is also lazy, the actual gist being closer to "compartmentalized universe." Compartmentalized may be a kluge-y word, but it is a word, and the phrase qualifies as a grounded metaphor.

Reality, truth, universe, ..., Miss World 2008, ... - each is like Highlander, In the end, there can be only one.

The alternative is that words lose what little purchase on meaning they have.

I'm going to have to admit that I have no idea what you are talking about. My education is the equivilant to a highschool dropout. I meant only that I believe given an enormous amount of time anything may be possible. Could be wrong, usually am.

Edited October 18, 2007 by GetBornAgain

[eight bits]

I meant only that I believe given an enormous amount of time anything may be possible.

We are in full agreement. Sorry for the mix-up - but Huxley talking to Wilberforce wrong-footed me .

I know, that was Dawkins speaking. My bad. Really, sorry.

[Jjbreen]

UP DATES TO THE $1,000.00 Challenge -

OK, some local friends of mine have handed over the $$'s to raise the below challenge to $1,000.00. That's a total of $1,000.00

The funds that Dark Lotus has added, have been omitted on purpose. I have not been able to get hold of him now for some time. So I am unsure as to if he is still wanting to put this money up. When he should come back online, and says the offer is still good, I will then added his donation to the pot.

For Legal Reasons:

Anyone taking this challenge MUST be 18 yrs or older and must provide valid and credible proof of their age.

Saruman has requested this and I have honored this request.

NOTE:

Anyone that wishes to add funds to this challenge may do so. Just REPLY to this post, add your name, and amount that you will pay towards the challenge. UNDERSTAND - I intend to pay out the $1,000.00. So I totally expect anyone that adds to this, the integrity to do also. (Three people have PM'd me about this now.) Do not post $$ added if you do not intend to pay it out - should it be met. Please.... Thanks.... JjBreen.

THE CONDITIONS AND RULES OF THE CHALLENGE:

Ok: some people seemed to have trouble understanding the RULES of the $300.00 $1,000.00 Challenge. I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer, but here the Challenge 'cleaned' up a bit.

Ok, here is an attempt to clarify the RULES for the $1,000.00 Pin Wheel (Psi Wheel) TK Challenge:

$900.00 of the award is from me, Jj and $100.00 of it is sponsored by UM Member: Arthur Vandolay -aka- Anthony.

It must be understood that ALL the conditions of the $1,000.00 challenge MUST BE MET.

The applicant cannot change the rules to ‘fit their need’.

If any of the conditions are NOT met as spelled out, the applicant failed to meet the requirements of the $1,000.00 Challenge.

This Challenge canNOT using any Remote Control devices or Hidden Devices or Secondary "Power Sources", ie:

-- Electronic Pumps

-- Tubes w/people blowing in them off camera

-- Motors,

-- Fans,

-- Heater,

-- Coolers and such.

-- Any IR (Inferred) Control Devices

-- Any Laser or Light technology.

-- Spot Lights

-- Strings.

-- Magnets

** Cannot be near any Spot light, heat lamps, heater vents, air flow vents and/or windows. It must be protected as is possible from these sources, or any other props to pull of the "stunt" or "illusion". This is NOT an "illusion" Challenge.

In other words be Accountable to be HONEST.

As stated to Matt's attempt -

I will put up $1,000.00 to anyone that can create an HONEST video using the PIN WHEEL to show Psi (TK) with ALL the following conditions being met.

This test must be done w/ALL the following conditions:

A.

Clear see through table top, and legs.

.. You can set the plastic clear table top on some tall glasses or some other clear leggings.

..... The purpose here is simple. It must be visually clear from ‘top to bottom and sides to sides’.

......... The legs must be 12” (inches) or taller.

......... The table must be 3 feet in length and width or bigger – NOT smaller.

......... They cannot be “Frosted” or other opaque textures.

......... THEY HAVE TO BE 100% CLEAR SEE THROUGH.

B.

Feather, Toilet paper strips or other super lightweight material placed loose on the table inside and outside the CLEAR Bowel w/the Pin Wheel.

C.

Nothing under the bowl, except the light weight loose material, the pin and support and the paper wheel.

Thus seeing all the way through at all times.

** The Bowl MUST be 100% crystal clear and not opaque, frosted or colored.

** The paper pin wheel must be white 100% paper. NO specialty paper.

** On person just IM'd me showing me his video w/Tracing Paper. That would be fine.

D.

Your Face and Both hands MUST be visible in the video at all times.

E.

Your hands must be 12 inches or more away from the bowl during the TK Demo. They canNOT be closer than 12 inches.

F.

Volume on the video must be ON. So we can hear what is taking place.

There must be NO pause or Edit 'blips' during the demo. Once the DEMO starts, you CANNOT TURN OFF THE CAMERA AT ANY TIME! You do you loose. It’s just that simple.

This will be reviewed for this by a local expert that I know and trust. He knows what to look for - he does this for a living for the past 25 years & the co-sponser: UM Member: Arthur Vandolay -aka- Anthony.

As for your $100.00, I’m willing to throw in another! Same rules you stated prior HOWEVER, I am a videographer, so if at all possible I would like a copy of the original (i will pay for shipping etc) So I can check it for edits, and other 'tricks'. If you let me do that, then I throw in 100 dollars to the cause. Make it the $200 challenge maybe that will wet their whistles.

So you must supply the ORGINAL COPY of the video to Arthur aka Anthony. He will pay for the shipping of the video as stated. So there is NO money out of your pocket

G.

You must give before the DEMO a 360 degree view of the room where you are before the test. You must show the whole room, not just the floor. We need to know what is in the room and who is in the room w/you.

H.

IF there is anyone else w/you during the video and demo – they (everyone) MUST be made known, both visual and audio.

I.

You must give at least a 2-3 foot FOV (Field Of View) of the Table before during the demo.

We must be able to clearly see the paper spin w/out any question marks at all. Again remember your character is on the line here for being honest and straight w/us.

J.

You must tell us which direction the pin wheel will spin and it MUST spin in that direction.

Then Stop it via TK and spin it in the opposite direction.

ALL THE ABOVE MUST BE MET - Not just part of them. ALL OF THEM.

... Then show the video online to the group ...

This is the first phase of the video & Demo.

After it has been viewed and validated that you met ALL the above:

** I will deposit $25.00 in your PayPal or other online Account for gas to do the next part.

You will give me your City & State where you live.

I will contact local High School or Community College to find a Science teacher that will have you come in and video the EXACT demo w/the exact same equipment. They will inspect it and then you are to do the video as you presented above. The teacher at the end will validate that NO Tricks or "side steps" were taken and that indeed this was done by no other explanation then "TK".

** If this video then passes you will receive the remainder of the $300.00 $1,000.00 prize money into your PayPal or other online account.

*** BUT - If it is found that you used any kind of tricks or other acts of dishonesty - You will need to pay back the $25.00 and apologize to the group for your act of Fraud.

It has been asked of me in private:

"Jj - do I have to state in public forum that I am taking this challenge?"

The answer is: YES

- I've put the challenge up in public. So anyone taking the challenge has to state so in public as well. This way everyone here knows, "I've been 'called on the challenge'." With everything clearly documented here, this will be watched, especially me. Should someone meet ALL the above requirements, then I have to PAY OUT THE MONEY- Which I have every intention of doing so.

- But also it gives us a clear accounting of the person doing the challenge. So that we all can see: Did they meet ALL the Check List?

Do I expect anyone to take the Challenge?

… NO - I honestly do not, which is very sad. A lot of people “talk the talk” but unlike me – they will NOT put their “money (actions) where their mouth is”.

It is EASIER and safer for them to talk the talk – then to ‘walk’ the talk.

For this simple reason:

When one removes the actual science behind it - you remove, what you thought was TK. So no one will dare risk proving I and others were right all along - its just science being passed off as Psi. The "believers" know this only all too well. Thus, they cannot step up - for then they too will prove - it's just Science and not Psi.

THE RULE:

You must be accountably HONEST. Dis-Honesty intended or not - will void this agreement and seen as an act of fraud.

Now it has been questioned as to my acceptance of the video:

I can only say this once.

ANYONE that meets ALL the above conditions, I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO ACCEPT IT! What part of that do you NOT understand?? It really is JUST THAT SIMPLE... Because other wise I look the fool and Con-artist. I have to much respect for my reputation than to play that kind of stupid game. If you "do it" - hey I will honestly be super impressed and will be HAPPY to pay you the money, if for no other reason - YOU DID IT! YOU PROVED YOUR WORDS W/CLEAR ACTIONS!!

Here is the point: I would be justifiedly BANNED from UM. I would give the "Believers" valid amunition towards the Skeptics. I simply will not do that! I woul loose a lot of friends on here, that I've come to value very much as good internet friends. No I will pay the money. I have always been good to my word, no matter what it costs me. I've done this for 35 yrs and am not about to start playing games now. My words is as good here as it is where I live. Un-like some, I'm the same online as I am off line when it comes to my reputation and crediblity. Unlike some, I do not play silly stupid games....

Ok - there are many talkers of this "power" - so any 'takers' --- or are we still just all talk?

As I have posted the challenge, this is what must be done:

THIS MUST BE FOLLOWED - IT IS PART OF THE CONDITIONS OF THE CHALLENGE!!

You must cut/paste the acceptance of this challenge, in this thread ---> BEFORE you present any videos.

I .....(full name & Handle)..... agree to take JjBreen's Pin Wheel Challenge. I agree to meet ALL the conditions set in the challenge. If I do not meet ALL of them - I have defaulted and the have broken the agreed upon challenge. Thus NO monies are owed me.

I .... *full name* ..... will present the first part of the Video on ... *date* .....

I live in the following .... *city* ..... and ... *state* ....

.... FULL NAME .... --- Date:

OK – there has been some question of posting your Personal Information on the NET: Since I can see this point as valid, then provide the stated information to me in a private PM or request to e-mail it to me and I will provide you with an E-MAIL. Understand that in all likely hood I will call to validate this information. But you will post acceptance of all the terms and condition on the thread under your “Handle” and I will validate it when it is indeed validated w/in 48 hours on this thread as well.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Jjbreen

[GetBornAgain]

We are in full agreement. Sorry for the mix-up - but Huxley talking to Wilberforce wrong-footed me .

I know, that was Dawkins speaking. My bad. Really, sorry.

No problem at all. Take care.

[Jjbreen]

The New Rules are posted above. You must be 18 to get the money - but as "you" asked in the PM, you do not have to be 18 to just take the challenge ....

[Jjbreen]

Since I will be leaving UM on first of Next Week - Novemember 19th - 2007. This challenge is thus removed from this board.

Respectfully - Jj Breen Nov 16th - 2007]

UP DATES TO THE $1,000.00 Challenge -

OK, some local friends of mine have handed over the $$'s to raise the below challenge to $1,000.00. That's a total of $1,000.00

The funds that Dark Lotus has added, have been omitted on purpose. I have not been able to get hold of him now for some time. So I am unsure as to if he is still wanting to put this money up. When he should come back online, and says the offer is still good, I will then added his donation to the pot.

For Legal Reasons:

Anyone taking this challenge MUST be 18 yrs or older and must provide valid and credible proof of their age.

Saruman has requested this and I have honored this request.

NOTE:

Anyone that wishes to add funds to this challenge may do so. Just REPLY to this post, add your name, and amount that you will pay towards the challenge. UNDERSTAND - I intend to pay out the $1,000.00. So I totally expect anyone that adds to this, the integrity to do also. (Three people have PM'd me about this now.) Do not post $$ added if you do not intend to pay it out - should it be met. Please.... Thanks.... JjBreen.

THE CONDITIONS AND RULES OF THE CHALLENGE:

Ok: some people seemed to have trouble understanding the RULES of the $300.00 $1,000.00 Challenge. I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer, but here the Challenge 'cleaned' up a bit.

Ok, here is an attempt to clarify the RULES for the $1,000.00 Pin Wheel (Psi Wheel) TK Challenge:

$900.00 of the award is from me, Jj and $100.00 of it is sponsored by UM Member: Arthur Vandolay -aka- Anthony.

It must be understood that ALL the conditions of the $1,000.00 challenge MUST BE MET.

The applicant cannot change the rules to ‘fit their need’.

If any of the conditions are NOT met as spelled out, the applicant failed to meet the requirements of the $1,000.00 Challenge.

This Challenge canNOT using any Remote Control devices or Hidden Devices or Secondary "Power Sources", ie:

-- Electronic Pumps

-- Tubes w/people blowing in them off camera

-- Motors,

-- Fans,

-- Heater,

-- Coolers and such.

-- Any IR (Inferred) Control Devices

-- Any Laser or Light technology.

-- Spot Lights

-- Strings.

-- Magnets

** Cannot be near any Spot light, heat lamps, heater vents, air flow vents and/or windows. It must be protected as is possible from these sources, or any other props to pull of the "stunt" or "illusion". This is NOT an "illusion" Challenge.

In other words be Accountable to be HONEST.

As stated to Matt's attempt -

I will put up $1,000.00 to anyone that can create an HONEST video using the PIN WHEEL to show Psi (TK) with ALL the following conditions being met.

This test must be done w/ALL the following conditions:

A.

Clear see through table top, and legs.

.. You can set the plastic clear table top on some tall glasses or some other clear leggings.

..... The purpose here is simple. It must be visually clear from ‘top to bottom and sides to sides’.

......... The legs must be 12” (inches) or taller.

......... The table must be 3 feet in length and width or bigger – NOT smaller.

......... They cannot be “Frosted” or other opaque textures.

......... THEY HAVE TO BE 100% CLEAR SEE THROUGH.

B.

Feather, Toilet paper strips or other super lightweight material placed loose on the table inside and outside the CLEAR Bowel w/the Pin Wheel.

C.

Nothing under the bowl, except the light weight loose material, the pin and support and the paper wheel.

Thus seeing all the way through at all times.

** The Bowl MUST be 100% crystal clear and not opaque, frosted or colored.

** The paper pin wheel must be white 100% paper. NO specialty paper.

** On person just IM'd me showing me his video w/Tracing Paper. That would be fine.

D.

Your Face and Both hands MUST be visible in the video at all times.

E.

Your hands must be 12 inches or more away from the bowl during the TK Demo. They canNOT be closer than 12 inches.

F.

Volume on the video must be ON. So we can hear what is taking place.

There must be NO pause or Edit 'blips' during the demo. Once the DEMO starts, you CANNOT TURN OFF THE CAMERA AT ANY TIME! You do you loose. It’s just that simple.

This will be reviewed for this by a local expert that I know and trust. He knows what to look for - he does this for a living for the past 25 years & the co-sponser: UM Member: Arthur Vandolay -aka- Anthony.

As for your $100.00, I’m willing to throw in another! Same rules you stated prior HOWEVER, I am a videographer, so if at all possible I would like a copy of the original (i will pay for shipping etc) So I can check it for edits, and other 'tricks'. If you let me do that, then I throw in 100 dollars to the cause. Make it the $200 challenge maybe that will wet their whistles.

So you must supply the ORGINAL COPY of the video to Arthur aka Anthony. He will pay for the shipping of the video as stated. So there is NO money out of your pocket

G.

You must give before the DEMO a 360 degree view of the room where you are before the test. You must show the whole room, not just the floor. We need to know what is in the room and who is in the room w/you.

H.

IF there is anyone else w/you during the video and demo – they (everyone) MUST be made known, both visual and audio.

I.

You must give at least a 2-3 foot FOV (Field Of View) of the Table before during the demo.

We must be able to clearly see the paper spin w/out any question marks at all. Again remember your character is on the line here for being honest and straight w/us.

J.

You must tell us which direction the pin wheel will spin and it MUST spin in that direction.

Then Stop it via TK and spin it in the opposite direction.

ALL THE ABOVE MUST BE MET - Not just part of them. ALL OF THEM.

... Then show the video online to the group ...

This is the first phase of the video & Demo.

After it has been viewed and validated that you met ALL the above:

** I will deposit $25.00 in your PayPal or other online Account for gas to do the next part.

You will give me your City & State where you live.

I will contact local High School or Community College to find a Science teacher that will have you come in and video the EXACT demo w/the exact same equipment. They will inspect it and then you are to do the video as you presented above. The teacher at the end will validate that NO Tricks or "side steps" were taken and that indeed this was done by no other explanation then "TK".

** If this video then passes you will receive the remainder of the $300.00 $1,000.00 prize money into your PayPal or other online account.

*** BUT - If it is found that you used any kind of tricks or other acts of dishonesty - You will need to pay back the $25.00 and apologize to the group for your act of Fraud.

It has been asked of me in private:

"Jj - do I have to state in public forum that I am taking this challenge?"

The answer is: YES

- I've put the challenge up in public. So anyone taking the challenge has to state so in public as well. This way everyone here knows, "I've been 'called on the challenge'." With everything clearly documented here, this will be watched, especially me. Should someone meet ALL the above requirements, then I have to PAY OUT THE MONEY- Which I have every intention of doing so.

- But also it gives us a clear accounting of the person doing the challenge. So that we all can see: Did they meet ALL the Check List?

Do I expect anyone to take the Challenge?

… NO - I honestly do not, which is very sad. A lot of people “talk the talk” but unlike me – they will NOT put their “money (actions) where their mouth is”.

It is EASIER and safer for them to talk the talk – then to ‘walk’ the talk.

For this simple reason:

When one removes the actual science behind it - you remove, what you thought was TK. So no one will dare risk proving I and others were right all along - its just science being passed off as Psi. The "believers" know this only all too well. Thus, they cannot step up - for then they too will prove - it's just Science and not Psi.

THE RULE:

You must be accountably HONEST. Dis-Honesty intended or not - will void this agreement and seen as an act of fraud.

Now it has been questioned as to my acceptance of the video:

I can only say this once.

ANYONE that meets ALL the above conditions, I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO ACCEPT IT! What part of that do you NOT understand?? It really is JUST THAT SIMPLE... Because other wise I look the fool and Con-artist. I have to much respect for my reputation than to play that kind of stupid game. If you "do it" - hey I will honestly be super impressed and will be HAPPY to pay you the money, if for no other reason - YOU DID IT! YOU PROVED YOUR WORDS W/CLEAR ACTIONS!!

Here is the point: I would be justifiedly BANNED from UM. I would give the "Believers" valid amunition towards the Skeptics. I simply will not do that! I woul loose a lot of friends on here, that I've come to value very much as good internet friends. No I will pay the money. I have always been good to my word, no matter what it costs me. I've done this for 35 yrs and am not about to start playing games now. My words is as good here as it is where I live. Un-like some, I'm the same online as I am off line when it comes to my reputation and crediblity. Unlike some, I do not play silly stupid games....

Ok - there are many talkers of this "power" - so any 'takers' --- or are we still just all talk?

As I have posted the challenge, this is what must be done:

THIS MUST BE FOLLOWED - IT IS PART OF THE CONDITIONS OF THE CHALLENGE!!

You must cut/paste the acceptance of this challenge, in this thread ---> BEFORE you present any videos.

I .....(full name & Handle)..... agree to take JjBreen's Pin Wheel Challenge. I agree to meet ALL the conditions set in the challenge. If I do not meet ALL of them - I have defaulted and the have broken the agreed upon challenge. Thus NO monies are owed me.

I .... *full name* ..... will present the first part of the Video on ... *date* .....

I live in the following .... *city* ..... and ... *state* ....

.... FULL NAME .... --- Date:

OK – there has been some question of posting your Personal Information on the NET: Since I can see this point as valid, then provide the stated information to me in a private PM or request to e-mail it to me and I will provide you with an E-MAIL. Understand that in all likely hood I will call to validate this information. But you will post acceptance of all the terms and condition on the thread under your “Handle” and I will validate it when it is indeed validated w/in 48 hours on this thread as well.

[Saru]

We'll be sorry to see you go, here's wishing you all the best with your future on-line endeavours.

As the challenge has been withdrawn and this thread has been inactive for some time i'll close this down.