Dolphins may be from Atlantis?

[jacekswieca]

Hello everyone,

did You hear about this new theory?

Dolphins may be humans, who evaluate a little bit during living in the water. Human's body may evoluate and possibly if human species lives in water after long long time it would look like dolphins. That would explain dolphins' intelligence and friendship. Dolphins may be people from Atlantis, who moved to the water after Atlantida cataclism.

What do You think??

[Chauncy]

Dolphin's ancestors once lived on land and looked similar to wolves, although they were more closely related to cows.

There is a Greek legend which shows that the Greeks did consider the dolphin more than just a fish: Dionysus, god of wine and frenzy, was mistaken and was to be sold as a slave. He aroused to anger and changed the rowing oars into snakes. When the men felt "madness" coming on they leaped overboard, turning into dolphins. This is how the first dolphins were created, and why dolphins always help man.

[The Silver Thong]

What did you say :blink:

No I don't think Atlantian's evolved into dolphin's. For one I believe Atlantis itself to be a myth. Second there dna is way different then humans. Third Atlantis was destroyed 10.000 years ago, evolution would require much more time for such a change to occur.

[jacekswieca]

I know biology very good, I also know biology ordination, but this is very very interesting theory.

It's a pity that no one investigated it.

What do You think

[Mattshark]

Hello everyone,

did You hear about this new theory?

Dolphins may be humans, who evaluate a little bit during living in the water. Human's body may evoluate and possibly if human species lives in water after long long time it would look like dolphins. That would explain dolphins' intelligence and friendship. Dolphins may be people from Atlantis, who moved to the water after Atlantida cataclism.

What do You think??

Dolphins are not particually friendly actually (they are carnivours it is not in their interest to be friendly) and there are 40 species in 7 genera. They have been known to attack and kill with out with out provocation and to sexual assault. They will happily kill other dolphin species as well, and there intelligence level has never been shown to extremely high in most species.

There are also cetacean fossils from way before the evolution of humans.

This is also not new.

[jacekswieca]

If You consider Athlantis as the myth why You're saying that it was destroyed 10000 years ago?

Regarding DNA question - maybe Atlantis had different DNA??

[Mattshark]

I know biology very good, I also know biology ordination, but this is very very interesting theory.

It's a pity that no one investigated it.

What do You think

I'm sorry but there is nothing scientific in this idea. It is completely implausible because of the data we have about cetacea. It was never investigated because it is already disprovable.

[capeo]

I know biology very good, I also know biology ordination, but this is very very interesting theory.

It's a pity that no one investigated it.

What do You think

There's nothing to investigate. Biologically it's impossible. Genetically we are vastly different than them our closest common ancestor existed millions of year ago.

[The Silver Thong]

If You consider Athlantis as the myth why You're saying that it was destroyed 10000 years ago?

Regarding DNA question - maybe Atlantis had different DNA??

Sorry I should have said supposably destroyed.

[carini]

Atlantis never existed as described.

It may have been some small archipelago or island but it wasnt a civilization with any seriously advanced technology.

And no dolphins did not evolve from anything human like.

[jacekswieca]

Well, in fact some investigation was made.

Scientists compared brain of human to the dolphin's one. The structure is similar. Human's brain's weight is approximately 1400 g and the dolphins' brain's weight is 1400 g. However - the proportion between the cerebellum and brain's hemispheres is like 1/6,7 in human's brain and 1/6,5 in dolphin's brain. The brain cortex is also more complicated in dolphin's brains. Density of neurons is almost the same!!

Computer simulations show that human race after living in water for a few million years would evaluate and looked very similar to dolphins. Our legs would connect and our skull would evaluate making the nose part larger, our eyes going aside and our forehead going back. The simulation also showed that only human race could evaluate into the race similar to dolphins.

Best Regards

[Mattshark]

Well, in fact some investigation was made.

Scientists compared brain of human to the dolphin's one. The structure is similar. Human's brain's weight is approximately 1400 g and the dolphins' brain's weight is 1400 g. However - the proportion between the cerebellum and brain's hemispheres is like 1/6,7 in human's brain and 1/6,5 in dolphin's brain. The brain cortex is also more complicated in dolphin's brains. Density of neurons is almost the same!!

Computer simulations show that human race after living in water for a few million years would evaluate and looked very similar to dolphins. Our legs would connect and our skull would evaluate making the nose part larger, our eyes going aside and our forehead going back. The simulation also showed that only human race could evaluate into the race similar to dolphins.

Best Regards

Reference? Do you have one......

Brain is not just used for intelligence it controls the whole body and a larger animal should have a larger brain most dolphin species are bigger than humans so should have a larger brain. You also have not said which species of dolphin, Orca? Bottlenose? Risso? Pilot whale? Pacific Whitesided? Theres will be different in parts because they use echolocation and you need a different brain structure for that. You are still ignoring all the other scientific infomation

[m. Moe]

*sigh*

No, dolphins are dolphins and people are people. First off, Atlantis never existed. Secondly, if Atlantis went underwater, the people would drown and not magically turn to dolphins. And thirdly, we already know what the dolphins ancesters were, and they were not people.

Edited January 5, 2007 by MR_MOE

[jacekswieca]

Reference? Do you have one......

Brain is not just used for intelligence it controls the whole body and a larger animal should have a larger brain most dolphin species are bigger than humans so should have a larger brain. You also have not said which species of dolphin, Orca? Bottlenose? Risso? Pilot whale? Pacific Whitesided? Theres will be different in parts because they use echolocation and you need a different brain structure for that. You are still ignoring all the other scientific infomation

Would reference make You believe? Use Your own creativity.

I was not talking about the brain itself but about some proportions inside the brain and about the amount of neurons.

And I was not talking about species of dolphins because no biology classification is good for this idea, (well, if You want I may say Suborder Odontoceti - toothed whales).

And I don't ignore science because I'm scientist myself.

I only want to show some theory, which is ONLY theory and hypothesis.

If we would strongly believe only in biology classification the cryptozoology would be a rubbish, but it isn't, is it??

Best Regards

[m. Moe]

Would reference make You believe? Use Your own creativity.

I was not talking about the brain itself but about some proportions inside the brain and about the amount of neurons.

And I was not talking about species of dolphins because no biology classification is good for this idea, (well, if You want I may say Suborder Odontoceti - toothed whales).

And I don't ignore science because I'm scientist myself.

I only want to show some theory, which is ONLY theory and hypothesis.

If we would strongly believe only in biology classification the cryptozoology would be a rubbish, but it isn't, is it??

Best Regards

If you are a scientist then you would realize that your theory makes no sense at all.

Edited January 5, 2007 by MR_MOE

[capeo]

Would reference make You believe? Use Your own creativity.

I was not talking about the brain itself but about some proportions inside the brain and about the amount of neurons.

And I was not talking about species of dolphins because no biology classification is good for this idea, (well, if You want I may say Suborder Odontoceti - toothed whales).

And I don't ignore science because I'm scientist myself.

I only want to show some theory, which is ONLY theory and hypothesis.

If we would strongly believe only in biology classification the cryptozoology would be a rubbish, but it isn't, is it??

Best Regards

No offense, but you obviously aren't a scientist or you would know that what you're postulating is a hypothesis and not a theory. You would also know that what you're postulating is impossible.

[Mattshark]

Would reference make You believe? Use Your own creativity.

I was not talking about the brain itself but about some proportions inside the brain and about the amount of neurons.

And I was not talking about species of dolphins because no biology classification is good for this idea, (well, if You want I may say Suborder Odontoceti - toothed whales).

And I don't ignore science because I'm scientist myself.

I only want to show some theory, which is ONLY theory and hypothesis.

If we would strongly believe only in biology classification the cryptozoology would be a rubbish, but it isn't, is it??

Best Regards

As a zoologist, I believe you have no basis and every scientist knows you must reference and you have ignored taxonomy completely.

Which Odontocets?

Suborder Odontoceti: toothed whales

Family Delphinidae: oceanic dolphins

Genus Cephalorhynchus

Commerson's Dolphin, Cephalorhynchus commersonii'

Chilean Dolphin, Cephalorhynchus eutropia

Heaviside's Dolphin, Cephalorhynchus heavisidii'

Hector's Dolphin, Cephalorhynchus hectori

Genus Steno

Rough-toothed Dolphin, Steno bredanensis

Genus Sousa

Atlantic Humpback Dolphin, Sousa teuszi

Indian Humpback Dolphin, Sousa plumbea

Chinese White Dolphin, Sousa chinensis

Genus Sotalia

Tucuxi, Sotalia fluviatilis

Genus Tursiops

Bottlenose Dolphin, Tursiops truncatus

Indian Ocean Bottlenose Dolphin, Tursiops aduncus

Genus Stenella

Pantropical Spotted Dolphin, Stenella attenuata

Atlantic Spotted Dolphin, Stenella frontalis

Spinner Dolphin, Stenella longirostris

Clymene Dolphin, Stenella clymene

Striped Dolphin, Stenella coeruleoalba

Genus Delphinus

Short-beaked Common Dolphin, Delphinus delphis

Long-beaked Common Dolphin, Delphinus capensis

(Arabian Common Dolphin, Delphinus tropi*spam filter*)

Genus Lagenodelphis

Fraser's Dolphin, Lagenodelphis hosei

Genus Lagenorhynchus

White-beaked Dolphin, Lagenorhynchus albirostris

Atlantic White-sided Dolphin, Lagenorhynchus acutus

Pacific White-sided Dolphin, Lagenorhynchus obliquidens

Dusky Dolphin, Lagenorhynchus obscurus

Black-chinned Dolphin, Lagenorhynchus australis

Hourglass Dolphin, Lagenorhynchus cruciger

Genus Lissodelphis

Northern Right Whale Dolphin, Lissodelphis borealis

Southern Right Whale Dolphin, Lissodelphis peronii

Genus Grampus

Risso's Dolphin, Grampus griseus

Genus Peponocephala

Melon-headed Whale, Peponocephala electra

Genus Feresa

Pygmy Killer Whale, Feresa attenuata

Genus Pseudorca

False Killer Whale, Pseudorca crassidens

Genus Orcinus

Orca (Killer Whale), Orcinus orca

Genus Globicephala

Long-finned Pilot Whale, Globicephala melas

Short-finned Pilot Whale, Globicephala macrorhyncus

Genus Orcaella

Irrawaddy Dolphin, Orcaella brevirostris

Australian Snubfin Dolphin, Orcaella heinsohni

Family Monodontidae

Genus Monodon

Narwhal, Monodon monoceros

Genus Delphinapterus

Beluga, Delphinapterus leucas

Family Phocoenidae: Porpoises

Genus Neophocaena

Finless Porpoise, Neophocaena phocaenoides

Genus Phocoena

Harbour Porpoise, Phocoena phocaena

Vaquita, Phocoena sinus

Spectacled Porpoise, Phocoena dioptrica

Burmeister's Porpoise, Phocoena spinipinnis

Genus Phocoenoides

Dall's Porpoise, Phocoenoides dalli

Family Physeteridae

Genus Physeter

Sperm Whale, Physeter macrocephalus

Family Kogiidae

Genus Kogia

Dwarf Sperm Whale, Kogia sima

Pygmy Sperm Whale, Kogia breviceps

Family Ziphidae: beaked whales

Genus Ziphius

Cuvier's Beaked Whale, Ziphius cavirostris

Genus Berardius, giant beaked whales

Arnoux's Beaked Whale, Berardius arnuxii

Baird's Beaked Whale (North Pacific Bottlenose Whale), Berardius bairdii

Genus Tasmacetus

Tasman Beaked Whale (Shepherd's Beaked Whale), Tasmacetus shepherdi

Sub-family Hyperoodontidae

Genus Indopacetus

Indo-Pacific Beaked Whale (Longman's Beaked Whale), Indopacetus pacificus

Genus Hyperoodon

Northern Bottlenose Whale, Hyperoodon ampullatus

Southern Bottlenose Whale, Hyperoodon planifrons

Genus Mesoplodon, mesoplodont whales

Hector's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon hectori

True's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon mirus

Gervais' Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon europaeus

Sowerby's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon bidens

Gray's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon grayi

Pygmy Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon peruvianus

Andrew's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon bowdoini

Bahamonde's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon bahamondi

Hubbs' Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon carlhubbsi

Ginko-toothed Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon ginkgodens

Stejneger's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon stejnegeri

Layard's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon layardii

Blainville's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon densirostris

Perrin's Beaked Whale, Mesoplodon perrini

Super-family Platanistoidea: river dolphins

Family Iniidae

Genus Inia

Amazon River Dolphin, Inia geoffrensis

Family Lipotidae

Genus Lipotes

Chinese River Dolphin, Lipotes vexillifer

Family Platanistidae

Genus Platanista

Ganges and Indus River Dolphin, Platanista gangetica

Family Pontoporiidae

Genus Pontoporia

La Plata Dolphin, Pontoporia blainvillei (From wikipedia) Are you saying all these species are descended from humans when there is fossil evidence showing that these are infact related to Artiodactyla. Sheep and cows.

Cetacean lineage

another paper

More

I know these are papers, but as a scientist you should have the ability to access them.

Sorry but you have no supporting evidence for this in fact there is a tired of evidence against it not just the fact that dolphins have been around longer than man. This is a well studied field of science and you are willing to ignore scientific work for your own fantasy and expect me to believe you are a scientist?

[jacekswieca]

Well, two posts above are quite funny, especially this "copy-paste" action.

Dear friends, You don't believe that I'm scientist?? OK. I don't need it and I don't have to prove You that I am.

I thought that some interesting discussion may appear from my topic but obviously You are too young for this. I understand it.

But I won't let ANYONE to offence me!!!!

This is UM forum, so please, don't try to show me how wise You are and don't show me informations which I already know.

Maybe this what I wrote is not true, but I thought it could be good base for interesting discussion.

I was wrong. Pity.

Best Regards

[rezna]

Sorry but you have no supporting evidence for this in fact there is a tired of evidence against it not just the fact that dolphins have been around longer than man. This is a well studied field of science and you are willing to ignore scientific work for your own fantasy and expect me to believe you are a scientist?

Mattshark, let me just say that after our conversation in the intelligence thread, this one is TOTALLY crazy! Man, our conversation pales in comparison to this one! WOW!

[Aristocrates]

They have been known to attack and kill with out with out provocation and to sexual assault. They will happily kill other dolphin species as well

hmm, idk, sounds like us humans to me haha

[Mattshark]

Well, two posts above are quite funny, especially this "copy-paste" action.

Dear friends, You don't believe that I'm scientist?? OK. I don't need it and I don't have to prove You that I am.

I thought that some interesting discussion may appear from my topic but obviously You are too young for this. I understand it.

But I won't let ANYONE to offence me!!!!

This is UM forum, so please, don't try to show me how wise You are and don't show me informations which I already know.

Maybe this what I wrote is not true, but I thought it could be good base for interesting discussion.

I was wrong. Pity.

Best Regards

Why should we believe you, you seem to know nothing about science what so ever. You have no evidence, you refuse to reference, you are trying to argue a field I work in and that I am educated in. If you where a scientist, you could reference and you could develop the grounds for a valid argument, but you can not, all this shows you have scientific background what so ever. We disproved what you said by using real scientific infomaton, you even talk about dolphin as if there was only one of them, you igorned taxonomy and ecology and physiology and you have wanted to us to use our imaginations rather than using knowledge we already have acquired. If you want to discuss something, back it up, reference and actually choose a subject that is already known so well.

A real scientist would always refence btw, because not doing so is plagerism and this is illegal

[Mattshark]

hmm, idk, sounds like us humans to me haha

[eqgumby]

Wowsers. Shot down and shot down well.

Well, can I ask a silly question, being uneducated in zoology?

Why so much interest in Dolphin (whatever species) and human communication and interaction? Is it just because they are trainable like dogs, and cute in general? Is it true they have sex for pleasure as well as prcreation? And do they actually display anger and commit assaults in the same way humans might? Just wondering if these are true parallels that have been drawn in the past.

[crystal sage]

I'd always thought that maybe dolphins in a past had a close connection with man ... as we now have with cats and dogs... they are just as intuitive ..telepathically connected as man's best friend... ( depending if you are a dog person or a cat person)...the dolphin would have been the ideal close pet or companion if you lived by the sea or were a fisherman... perfect with children... you'd know that they were safe...just as we tend to use a dog to ensure our kids safety at times...

Hense the dolphin's intuitive ...telepathic closeness...and helpfullness to man today !!!!

Here's an interesting article....

http://www.research.noaa.gov/spotlite/arch...spot_texas.html

"Human genes are helping Texas A&M veterinarians unlock the genetic code of dolphins

By Mark Evans

Texas Sea Grant

COLLEGE STATION -- Though one eats fish, has fins and glides effortlessly through the water while the other eats hamburgers, wears Reeboks and drives a car to work every morning, humans and dolphins may have more in common than people think, especially when it comes to genetics. In a Sea Grant-funded project, Texas A&M University veterinarians are comparing human chromosomes to those of dolphins and are finding that the two share many similarities. The scientists hope to use these similarities to identify and map the genes of dolphins.

Genes are organized into segments along the length of a chromosome - a tightly wound spool of DNA. This spool is made up of two, complementary, single strands of DNA bound together. Every living thing has a characteristic number of chromosomes, and each chromosome carries different genes. Dolphins have 44 chromosomes, and humans have 46. Dr. David Busbee and his team applied human "paints," fluorescently labeled pieces of human chromosomes, to dolphin chromosomes on microscope slides. Scientists broke open dolphin cells, releasing chromosomes onto slides. The dolphin chromosomes were then treated with labled human chromosome pieces, providing the opportunity for complementary DNA strands to match up.

...Humans and dolphins may have more in common than......

When scientists examined the photos taken with a fluorescence microscope, they found dolphin chromosomes fluorescently tagged with the labeled, or "painted," pieces of human chromosomes and concluded that dolphins hold many of the same chromosomes as humans. "We started looking at these and it became very obvious to us that every human chromosome had a corollary chromosome in the dolphin," Busbee said. "We've found that the dolphin genome and the human genome basically are the same. It's just that there's a few chromosomal rearrangements that have changed the way the genetic material is put together."

matching portions of human and dolphin chromosomes

Matching (yellow) portions of human and dolphin chromosomes

Currently, scientists are trying to determine if the same similarities are true for individual genes on the chromosomes. For every dolphin chromosome, they are selecting a gene found on the human chromosome and seeing if that same gene shows up in the dolphin at the same place on the chromosome. "We expect to find that a lot of rearrangements have taken place," he said. "We expect there are a number of places where the dolphin genome will reflect differences with the human genome." It is these differences that will tell scientists how long ago dolphins and humans embarked down different branches on the evolutionary tree, he said. According to their genes, Busbee said, dolphins are closely related to cows, antelopes and giraffes, and the domestic pig may be their closest relative.

If scientists can determine the genetic information shared by humans and dolphins, he said, then they may be able to save themselves a lot of time and effort in constructing a genetic map of dolphins. Busbee said they may be able to save as much as 20 years by tapping into all of the work that has been done mapping human genes and using this information to identify matching genes in dolphins. Because of the similar evolutionary history of dolphins and cows, help may also come from Texas A&M University scientists who are constructing a genetic map of the cow.

"Nobody has ever done genetics work on Cetaceans -- whales, dolphins and porpoises," he said "No molecular genetics work has been done with this group before." Once scientists decipher the genetic code of dolphins, Busbee said, they will likely turn their attentions toward uncoding the genes of other members of the whale family. "The chromosome complements between different Cetacean species are pretty close, so if we can apply these data to the dolphin then there's a high degree of likelihood we will be able to apply them to the other cetacean species as well," he said.

For more information, contact Dave Busbee at (409) 845-6463 or Mark Evans at (409) 862-3770 or mark-evans@tamu.edu.

[Mattshark]

Wowsers. Shot down and shot down well.

Well, can I ask a silly question, being uneducated in zoology?

Why so much interest in Dolphin (whatever species) and human communication and interaction? Is it just because they are trainable like dogs, and cute in general? Is it true they have sex for pleasure as well as prcreation? And do they actually display anger and commit assaults in the same way humans might? Just wondering if these are true parallels that have been drawn in the past.

They have been shown to display anger, this varies species to species. They do have sex for pleasure and they do masterbate, they have assualted both turtles and people in the past.But camels are also known to commit sexual assualt on each other as have chimpanzes. Dolphins are trainable yes, but unlike dogs, they escape at the first opertunity because they don't like and hence are more aggressive in captivity.

However there is no evidence to show that dolphins are as intelligent as humans. Dr John Lilly believed in communication was possible between cetaceans and humans and tried with bottlenose dolphins (The species most people are common with). But he never showed anything and he grew very frustrated and stopped using scientific methods and they he was never produced any data just wild claims and he is later work is disregared as it was all unsubstantiated and he went insane from high use of LSD and he rather unethically feed it to dolphins but he never achieved his desired results and ignored work done by other scientists for his own cause and occasionally just made things up. He could not even show that bottlenose dolphins making more than 20 sounds. Something which researchers using scientific methods were able to do.

There is no evidence of cetaceans being more intelligent than humans or that they could care less about us when we are not killing them or putting them in captivity (I believe these animals are not good for food, in fact dolphin meat is very unhealthy as it contains high mercury levels and it not been shown to be possible to keep dolphin in captivity)